bmi330
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Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Wed Mar 05, 2003 5:51 am

First question why must this be done it has no reference to current day and is more or less in a different language. In my view its just a lot of mince as you spend the majority of class time translating into current English correct me if I'm wrong but is that not what modern Studies is about? Why cant we just do a play in current day English so that it can be understand and so much time is not lost or wasted as you are unlikely to use this ever again in your life.
 
cfalk
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Wed Mar 05, 2003 5:58 am

Shakespeare is subtle. In this age of spoon-fed stories and TV programs, Shakespeare requires you to read between the lines - to actually think about what is being said. I think it's a great exercise, although I did think like you did early on and didn't catch on to the subtlety 'till later.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Wed Mar 05, 2003 6:01 am

I don't mind Shakespeare. I actually read all of Romeo and Juliet. It was interesting for some reason.
Go big or go home
 
ovelix
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Wed Mar 05, 2003 7:18 pm

It's the same thing in Greece where we learn Ancient Greek language and plays.

We don't see the necessity when we are kids but as I grow up I find myself going into these works again and again. Ancient Greek works and plays, like Shakespeare's plays, are great pieces of thought and creation. They make you think, they make you imagine those times and they give you a very good idea of what our civilization is made of.

Understanding the past is the first step of building the future. Studing Shakespeare or Plato or Sophocles or Aristotle makes you wiser, broadens your mind and makes you understand many things about yourself.

Kostas
 
Banco
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 3:35 am

Shakespeare coined more English words and phrases than any other individual in history. We use them all the time, even if sometimes his greatness tends to be more honoured in the breach than the observance.  Big grin
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
IHadAPheo
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 3:52 am

Shakespeare is superb, in his time he was considered to be quite a radical and some of his famous quotes have lost their original meaning, for example ...

When Hamlet tells Ophelia to "Get thee to a nunnery" he is really telling her to go to a brothel (whorehouse to some)

With Shakespeare there is much more than what meets the eye.

Yours,
A running late for work
IHadAPheo
Pray hard but pray with care For the tears that you are crying now Are just your answered prayers
 
Greg
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:19 am

It made me appreciate law books (and that says a LOT).

Shakespeare is grossly overrated. It's been analyzed to death.
 
Banco
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:22 am

If you read Shakespeare, Greg, I'm not surprised. It was written to be seen and heard. You wouldn't read a film script, now, would you?
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
srbmod
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School

Thu Mar 06, 2003 5:05 am

During Shakespeare's time, his plays were the entertainment of the time period. The plotlines of Shakespeare's plays are now commonly used in the plot formulas in modern entertainment; without Shakepspeare, there would not be the melodramatic soap operas, the boisterious sitcoms and the high drama we seen on TV and on film. Shakespeare wrote the book so to speak. The stories and lessons contained within his plays are as relevant now as they were in his day.
 
racko
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 5:24 am

Now if you as native English speakers have difficulties with Shakespeare, how do you think we poor not-native English speakers felt when he had to do Shakespeare in school ?  Laugh out loud
 
Banco
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 7:09 am

You're not telling me you had to do it English are you Racko?  Wow!

The downside of Shakespeare bringing so many words into the Englsih language is not all of them entered the popular lexicon. Thus, some of it can be incomprehensible.

Mind you, if you really want to be challenged, try Chaucer, or even worse, Beowulf!  Big grin
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
bmi330
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 9:30 am

Is any of it in English a had to get my dad to do my homework on it last night as I thought it was Irish (no offence meant just expression) its so confusing am getting to the point that a balling from the teacher is better than trying to work it out totally mind blowing to me. If anyone wants to help me feel free please.
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:14 am

In school we read one Shakespeare play a year...the order is:

9th grade: Julius Caesar
10th grade: The Merchant of Venice
11th grade: Romeo and Juliet
12th grade: MacBeth

I personally rather enjoyed reading most of them...pleasant change from the other assigned reading that we have in English classes in school today...the rest is mostly crap that doesnt appeal to me at all...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
SophieMaltese
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:14 am

I had to read King Lear in college. I have NO IDEA what the hell it was about. I couldn't get past the language to figure out the meaning of the story. I had to read like 40 pages every night after I got home from work at 11pm and it put me right to bed. Ugh.
 
N766UA
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:53 am

We're reading 'Julius Ceasar' right now and it blows mainly because our teacher is a total moron. He ACTUALLY says "edumacation".... this guy's a teacher and he says edumacation. Oh that and the people with the parts are stupid and can't read more than 10 words a minute so I fall asleep.
This Website Censors Me
 
sccutler
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 12:03 pm

English?

How about its native Klingon?
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
redngold
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School

Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:07 pm

It's not just about the old English. It's about how Shakespeare used the language, his brilliant use of similes, metaphor, and beautiful combinations of otherwise normal words.

Instead of trying to read meaning into every word, read a passage and then imagine it visually. Shakespeare's words come to life in a much more brilliant fashion in your imagination than they can ever be portrayed on the stage or screen.

In New York the State Board of Regents mandates Shakespeare in each grade of high school. This is what we did in my school:

9th grade -- Romeo and Juliet
10th grade -- Julius Caesar
11th grade -- Macbeth
12th grade -- Hamlet

In college, I took a theatre class called "Introduction to Performance." One of the first assignments -- memorize a Shakespeare sonnet, then "perform it" by memory in front of the class. Now you might think you can't perform a sonnet, but we learned how to present a sonnet in a way that conveyed the meaning of the words by memorizing it and visualizing what Shakespeare was trying to describe.

Fear not! You will eventually be through school and then you can ignore Shakespeare as much as you want... But if you get into it as much as possible, you will get more out of language and its uses (writing, speaking, etc.) than you ever thought possible. The guy was a genius.


redngold
Up, up and away!
 
KAL_LM
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 3:37 pm

The quick answer is because they are classics of the English language, and that's what English class is all about...learning the language.

Moreover, Shakespeare teaches you to think about what you read. Instead of pulp fiction that flows easily into one's consciousness, old Bill takes effort to understand. The more you put into it, the more you understand it.

While not the most famous playwright of his time (in some circles he was regarded as a hack), he is the one who has survived to this day. This has more to do with the introduction of printing(and the drops in cost of it, kind of a old Moore's Law) and how that intersects with his writings. Without the advent of inexpensive printing his First Folio would not have been possible, nor would have his immense continued popularity. The printing enabled the plays to spread faster than a troupe of actors and preserved it for posterity. Sure, other playwrights and poets, like Bacon, Moore and Marlowe have survived to this day, but for some reason (i.e. royal favor) Shakespeare got the nod.

What was always more interesting than the plays though, is the background of the plays and how they played to certain situations and circumstances in his world. There are real life similarities between there plays and actual events, most notably in the Histories, that commented on the politics of the day.

Most of all though, reading it to yourself doesn't cut it. You have to read it aloud to work the flow for it to make sense (even though it was really cheesy, Renaissance Man w/Danny DeVito makes this really clear). And better yet, see it live. That's how to understand it, and grow to love it.

Sorry for the ramble...

regards,
Tom
is that a light at the end of the tunnel or just a train?
 
gkirk
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:22 am

Bmi330, I think maybe its because you have to be able to speak more than just 'Weegie language  Big grin  Laugh out loud
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
srbmod
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Fri Mar 07, 2003 4:28 am

In the county I went to High School in, here's the Shakespeare breakdown:
9th Grade: Romeo & Juliet
10th Grade: Julius Caesar
11th Grade: n.a. (11th Language Arts was American Lit)
12th Grade: MacBeth (AKA The Scottish Play)

In college, I never had to read any Shakespeare plays (mainly because I didn't take the English Lit course that covered that time period, which was by choice; and plus not all ENG 101 classes at my college had to read Hamlet) I did act in a production of Julius Caesar with my college's Drama Dept. I played a number of small roles, but had a blast doing it; I also helped put together a short play of Shakespearean scenes and participated in Shakespeare Days with the Drama Club at my College. So needless to say, I've been a fan of the Bard for some time now.
 
Turbolet
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School

Fri Mar 07, 2003 5:21 am

I have been through the same suffering as Sophiemaltese in doing King Lear and unfortunately, since I'll be sitting the exam in May, I'll have to do naqra revision A1 as we say in Maltese quite soon.
Since we're an Advanced Level English class, the examiners thought it a must to include Shakespeare in our syllabus. And how nice of them, they had to choose this particular play. It's full of some nonsensical philosophy of suffering and purging one's sins and, double sense remarks.
We did the play in class last year and added to the already tedious nature of the play, our teacher was good enough to get a tape which introduced every scene with horrible, deafening medieval music...
 
bmi330
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Fri Mar 07, 2003 6:13 am

What Gkirk what's weggie language ?
 
racko
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Fri Mar 07, 2003 6:45 am

"You're not telling me you had to do it English are you Racko?"

Yes, he had to it. And to be honest, I hated it. Doing Goethe in German was bad, but Shakespeare made me hate the English lessons which I usually really liked. We read Romeo & Juliet in 11th grade and Hamlet in 12th grade, and actually had to play a little scene of Romeo & Juliet.
 
gkirk
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Fri Mar 07, 2003 9:57 am

Bmi330: Weegie language = Glasgow language  Smile Thats what us folks from outside of Glasgow call it  Big grin
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
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DaV
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Fri Mar 07, 2003 10:00 am

"You're not telling me you had to do it English are you Racko?"

I thought it was normal! I've done it in English, just like most of any English author I learned during high school time, included things like Chaucher (truly a pain in the ass!). The same went for German: Goethe, Schiller, Mann, and so on.

The worst I think that comes with mother-tongue authors: for me the worst was Dante (wich I still highly appreciated!!) almost incomprehensible without the notes written at the bottom of the page.

DaV
Two monologues do not make a dialogue
 
bmi330
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Sat Mar 08, 2003 3:17 am

Funny you say that we learn that as well with Edwin Morgan the apparently famous Glasgow poet that's what piggy said anyways that's me English teacher LOL. Its much better and I prefer it for the record but still mince LOL.
 
Guest

RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Sat Mar 08, 2003 5:32 am

"It's not just about the old English. It's about how Shakespeare used the language, his brilliant use of similes, metaphor, and beautiful combinations of otherwise normal words. Instead of trying to read meaning into every word, read a passage and then imagine it visually. Shakespeare's words come to life in a much more brilliant fashion in your imagination than they can ever be portrayed on the stage or screen."

Brilliantly said. Also, kudos to the person here who stated to read and know the past is to understand the future (and present). Indeed.

Personally, I absolutely loved reading both "Romeo and Juliet" and "Macbeth".
Our high school drama club performed "Macbeth" in the 12th grade. We all really enjoyed it, and the intense and brooding atmosphere of the story was
incredibld. To actually recite Shakespeare's brilliant words as an actor as opposed to just reading the tale was a mind-blower.

A Rose for the grave of the Muse.

Canadi>nBoy
YYZ

 
Banco
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Sat Mar 08, 2003 5:59 am

But would that rose by any other name smell as sweet?  Big grin
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Guest

RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Sat Mar 08, 2003 6:15 am

What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other word would smell as sweet.
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo called,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for thy name - which is no part of thee -
Take all myself.


 
Guest

RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Sat Mar 08, 2003 6:49 am

And no conversation or topic relating to the Bard would be complete without reference to this classic "Gilligan's Island" episode:

Episode 72. "The Producer".

Harold Hecuba, the famous Hollywood producer, lands on the island during his worldwide talent search. The Castaways attempt to put on a musical version of "Hamlet" to showcase Ginger's talents and force Hecuba to whisk her back to Hollywood. Later, Harold Hecuba vanishes, and through a radio report, the Castaways find out that he's back in Hollywood, and plans to introduce his monumental musical version of "Hamlet" to the world!

Guest starring Phil Silvers; Directed by Ida Lupino (the British actress).

Harold: (during rehearsals with the castaways) FASTER! FASTER! Pick up
the TEMPO! (snaps his fingers)

Mary-Ann: But....but, Mr. Hecuba, I really don't think Hamlet was meant to be
a "fast" play?

Harold: (Cigar hanging out of his mouth) Baby! Baby! In Hollywood, trust
me, everything is fast! Now come ON, PEOPLE! WORK WITH ME!

NOTE: Just WHAT kind of batteries did the castaways have in that radio?
The damn thing just went on and on and on working?





 
aloges
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Sat Mar 08, 2003 7:07 am

"You're not telling me you had to do it English are you Racko?

I thought it was normal! I've done it in English, just like most of any English author I learned during high school time,..."


Same for me! I read Romeo and Juliet two semesters ago, and I did like it! Guess that was because my teacher was still in her internship, extremely motivated (sometimes too much for us...), and she was extremely good at English. After we had finished the reading, we watched two film versions of it, the one by Franco Zeffirelli (1968) and the one by Baz Luhrmann (with DiCaprio...). Again, I didn't dislike it.

As for reading books in foreign languages, I guess Europeans do it more often than others. Why? I don't care, but I like it. I've read French books, English books, and the almost unbearable De Bello Gallico. Hardly ever will I forget that last semester of Latin...

"Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres, quarum unam incolunt Belgae, aliam Aquitani, tertiam qui ipsorum lingua Celtae, nostra Galli appellantur."
Copyright Gaius Iulius Caesar, if anyone cares. Laugh out loud
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Banco
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Sun Mar 09, 2003 4:43 am

Well, that's two quotes I've lobbed in. Glad someone noticed one of them, Canadi>nboy!  Big thumbs up
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
bmi330
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Tue Mar 11, 2003 9:05 pm

Ok guys since some of you like Shakespeare so much who's going to give me a had with my the essay its self. The question is how dose Romeo contribute to his own down fall? Please hell before the shit hits the fan as I'm up the river with out a paddle.
 
hartsfieldboy
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RE: Shakespeare Why Do You Have To Do It In School?

Wed Mar 12, 2003 2:08 am

Srbmod: Did you go to school in Gwinnett? I also read all those you mentioned in that order.

In college, I read Othello (his best play, I think), Much Ado about Nothing (I have also seen a live performance) and A Midsummer's Night Dream.

Shakspeare is hard to read, but for me, once I finished reading a play, everything made sense and it turned out to be very good. It just takes time to absorb what is going on.

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