ovelix
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Bush And God

Tue Mar 11, 2003 7:06 pm

Bush and God

What’s all that about God in GWB’s speeches? He rarely opens his mouth without mentioning God. That would not be much of a problem but now he uses God to justify the war with Iraq.

The terrorists hate the fact that ... we can worship Almighty God the way we see fit. The United States was called to bring God’s gift of liberty to every human being in the world”.

"An angel still rides in the whirlwind and directs this storm."

"Freedom and fear, justice and cruelty have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them."

"We are in a conflict between good and evil, and America will call evil by its name."

"The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity."

"There's power, wonder-working power, in the goodness and idealism and faith of the American people"


To simply put it: The problem is not the President’s faith. The problem is that, beside other reasons, he uses God to justify the war. And that is unacceptable.

For further reading see http://www.msnbc.com/news/878520.asp?0cl=cR

Kostas
 
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sebolino
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RE: Bush And God

Tue Mar 11, 2003 7:23 pm

It seems that Bush is if not controlled at least heavily supported by christian fundamentalists. His target is to restore a "moral order" in the US. It gives him a good base of voters, and as you can see, it's easier to justify a war (the Good vs the Evil).
In a way, he's acting exactly like muslim fundamentalists (their rethoric is exactly the same).
The danger with all that, is the civilisation shock it could trigger.
 
Guest

RE: Bush And God

Tue Mar 11, 2003 7:37 pm

The terrorists hate the fact that ... we can worship Almighty God the way we see fit.

Yeah, and Bush hates the fact that ... terrorists can worship Allah the way the see fit.

It works both ways.

Both are fundamentalist and both are as dangerous as the other.

When Bush comes out with the stuff he does, I feel like grabbing him and ramming my fist down his gob.

Why is it that born-again Christians are the ones who give you the shits the most?  Smile
 
Superfly
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RE: Bush And God

Tue Mar 11, 2003 7:46 pm

Dats be'cuz hez a Gawd ferring Conservative sent out ta' whip da' liberals.  Laugh out loud



Signed Trent Lott
Bring back the Concorde
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Bush And God

Tue Mar 11, 2003 9:03 pm

Thanks, nice post Ovelix!

He is as dangerous as the Islamitic fundamentalists... both justifie their (criminal) actions by god.

/Frederic
 
mbmbos
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RE: Bush And God

Tue Mar 11, 2003 9:16 pm

I think we can attribute these quotes to smart speech writers who know that this kind of rhetoric has broad appeal in the U.S. Think of it as America's specialized brand of sophistry.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Bush And God

Tue Mar 11, 2003 10:19 pm

The terrorists hate the fact that ... we can worship Almighty God the way we see fit.

Well, on that, I agree with him. OBL has said the one demand he has of the U.S. is that we convert to Islam, or there'll be no peace. He calls us "infidels", does he not? That , to me, tells me he has no tolerance for how others-mostly Christians and Jews-worship God.

As for his faith in God, that probably comes from the fact that the President is an alcoholic. He hasn't had a drink in years, but alcohol almost ruined his life when he was a younger man. He turned to faith when he was in deep doo-doo, as it were, and it's been something that, whether anyone of us likes it or not, has been a guide to him for two decades now.

One thing about a more fundamentalist faith that bothers a lot of people-and that includes myself-is that it teaches a very black/white world. I don't mean that in a racial sense, but in the sense of morality. There is a right ,and there is a wrong. There are very few shades of gray. That can be great as a personal compass, and I have no problem with that, but in the world of politics, it can cause some problems, as there are lots of shades of gray in political/military/diplomatic discourse.

And MBMBOS, yes, you can attribute it to speechwriters, but the speechwriters take their cue from President Bush, just as any presidential speechwriter takes their cue from whomever they're writing for.

Again, I fear this will denigrate into an attack on Mr. Bush's faith, and, an attack on faith in general. I hope not, but history on here says that will occur.

By the way, Ovelix, I don't know if it was this week or last week's issue of NEWSWEEK, that ran an article with just the title you put in your thread. I may have to get it to read it.
 
ovelix
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RE: Bush And God

Tue Mar 11, 2003 10:30 pm

Alpha

The link directs to the Newsweek article.

Kostas

[Edited 2003-03-11 14:32:40]
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Bush And God

Tue Mar 11, 2003 10:36 pm

Oh, I'm sorry, Ovelix, I saw "MSNBC" there, and thought it was a separate article. I'm getting the kids ready for school, so I haven't had a chance to go to it.  Smile Thanks!
 
b757300
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RE: Bush And God

Tue Mar 11, 2003 10:58 pm

I forgot, only atheists liberals are allowed to be President.  Yeah sure
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
ovelix
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RE: Bush And God

Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:03 pm

B757300

Again, you see only what you want to see. Read again the first post. It says

The problem is not President’s faith. The problem is that...he uses God to justify the war.

Hope I answered...

Kostas
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Bush And God

Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:08 pm

Right, B757300, that's why we've NEVER HAD AN ATHIEST LIBERAL AS PRESIDENT.

You're so obsessed with liberals, that it's not even funny. Stop trying to "Be Like Rush". I'm surprised you even think of liberals as human beings, with your attitude.
 
flight152
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RE: Bush And God

Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:32 pm

Thanks, nice post Ovelix!

He is as dangerous as the Islamitic fundamentalists... both justifie their (criminal) actions by god.


Uh huh Frederic. Stop spewing your garbage for once, okay?
 
GC
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RE: Bush And God

Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:41 pm

"Why is it that born-again Christians are the ones who give you the shits the most?  "

Nice, tolerant post there!  Angry

Well, I'm one, I've even worked in professional ministry, but don't tar us all with the same brush (or Bush)

I respect other people's views (even if they contradict my own) and would fight for their right to hold them, but I don't compromise my beliefs and I don't like being stereotyped. I follow Jesus because he talked a lot of sense. I'm a level headed, reasonably normal and creative guy, we're not all televangelists or Ned Flanders! altho' I do know a couple,  Smile
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:00 am

No Flight152 because this issue really bothers me.

I'm afraid that we are really not far away from the start of the war. Maybe 2-3 weeks or so? If Bush starts the attack later and it turns out to take longer than expected, his soldiers will not be able to bear the very high temperatures over there. So the attack must start now if Bush wants to attack. Not within 1-2 months.

I'm highly concerned because a VETO is probably coming of France and Russia. And if the US attacks without the clearance of the UN, thanks to Bush we will go back to the time of before 1928 where every nation started a war against another nation if there was a conflict. We were lucky that the more left-inspired France and Great-Britain saw in 1927 that the very high economical pressure on Germany was a situation without a solution, which lead to the Pact of Locarno where they decided to go to a situation of peaceful coëxistence. Since than we all made a lot of work to avoid wars in situations like Iraq-America today. What we see now is the fact that Bush and it's administration want to do the job on their own if there comes no agreement of the UN. I hope you understand the consequences if Bush attacks.

This makes me so angry... do Bush and the supporters of the wars really don't see this?

If Bush attacks, EVERY nation will be able to justifie a war if they want to start one which is not the way to go.

/Frederic
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:10 am

another thing Flight152:

The United States was called to bring God’s gift of liberty to every human being in the world”.

Have you read and reread this? Do you actually know how scary this is?

/Frederic
 
Guest

RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:18 am

"He (Bush) is as dangerous as the Islamitic fundamentalists... both justifie their (criminal) actions by god."

Precisely. And how sickenly revolting it is.

While we're at it, can anyone here possibly explain to me the difference between the propaganda filled/one-sided American news media, and propaganda/one sided Russian TASS news agency in the former Soviet Union? Cuz I sure as hell fail to see the difference.

 
Boeing757/767
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RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:30 am

If Bush truly believed in God, he would find a way to avoid war.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
ovelix
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RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:31 am

Canadian

The state propaganda is the same. And the media urge to spread the propaganda even when they don't have to. But, to be honest, there is plenty of space for the other side too. There is now freedom of speech which was not the case in the USSR years and in USA in the '50s.

(Read http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/11/Iraq.Qaeda.link/index.html for more info on this)

Now that the Commies are gone GWB needs another firm step to stand on and declare the almighty USA rule! Saddam (according to GWB) is the current threat and, with no legitimate argument to go to war, Dubya names God as his major ally and puts him in every speech instead of evidence and data.

There is a difference between "God help us" and "God is in our side because we are the good guys here".

Kostas

[Edited 2003-03-11 16:33:13]
 
Guest

RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:32 am

While we're at it, can anyone here possibly explain to me the difference between the propaganda filled/one-sided American news media, and propaganda/one sided Russian TASS news agency in the former Soviet Union?

Yeah, TASS occasionally told the truth  Laugh out loud
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:42 am

Aviatsiya, the good little Socialist you are, you wold believe such horseshit. TASS never once told the truth, as anyone with any common sense would know it. Again, it shows how little you know of the U.S. Keep it up, though, it is amusing.
 
Guest

RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:46 am

Keep it up, though, it is amusing.

Not nearly half as amusing as watching you nitpick and picking apart people's posts and treating everything as if it is serious.

Get a g-r-i-p
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:48 am

Avi, if I was amused by it, as I said I was, I'm not taking it that seriously. And believe me, I don't take much you say very seriously.  Laugh out loud
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:51 am

I'm with Scotty on this one. Alpha, take a chill pill. It's not fun to debate with you when your only comebacks are "anti-American!" or "communist!".
Dear moderators: No.
 
Guest

RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:58 am

"Dubya names God as his major ally and puts him in every speech instead of evidence and data."

Exactly.

"There is now freedom of speech which was not the case in the USSR years and in USA in the '50s."

On the surface, this may appear to be the case with both countries, but I have yet to be convinced Moscow and Washington do not have their respective fingers in the Journalistic pie, per se.


 
Alpha 1
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RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:59 am

We're Nuts, I called him a Socialist, not a Communist, and, as Avi said, there is a difference. ;-D

And I'm plenty chilled. I live in the arctic, also called Cleveland, remember?  Laugh out loud
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 1:31 am

Boeing 757/767 , Your exactly right , G W should ask himself... WWJD ???
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
hartsfieldboy
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RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 1:50 am

It's not his faith that makes him mention God all the time. Bush knows very well how to trick people into following him. I think the main reason for Bush to mention God in his speeches is mainly because mentioning God automatically makes it more difficult for someone to contradict him. How are you supposed to question Bush if God is on his side? You must be a godless, souless bastard to do such a thing. He is using the same tactics that cults use to lure followers. They get people to think that God is working through them and everything they do is divine. Bush knows this and he uses it to his full advantage to making people think that he is right.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 2:09 am

Incorrect, Hartsfieldboy- If you have a true and deeply felt faith in God, it will be shown in your words and actions.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
ovelix
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RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:41 am

XFSUgimpLB41X

Let me put it simple again:
A leader may serve his people in the name of God but he shouldn't ask them to follow him in the name of God.

If you have a true and deeply felt faith in God you should keep it aside when governing a country. Practice your faith at home but when in the Oval Office (or in any presidential or PM's or King's office) is on your own serving your people.

As a writer stated in Newsweek:
The problem isn't with Bush's sincerity, but with his evident conviction that he's doing God's will.

Bush may trully and sincerely believe that he is The Chosen who will lead the humanity to the World Peace. But we all know that divine emissaries don't come with a politician's costume and don't rely on people's vote to govern.

Hartsfieldboy has a point and, till today, we haven't seen any point from GWB's side except "God is with us" thing.

Stop mixing faith with world politics.

Kostas
 
Jj
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RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:01 am

And just one thing we discussed today at our religion time at school: Do you think that you can create the peace by a war? War can only leave hate after it ends...... just food for thought
 
Guest

RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:09 am

Guys,

What is thoroughly disturbing is what sort of narrow minded people would all this rubbish spewing out of Bush's mouth appeal to?

As the rest of the world are certainly not buying it and are rather disturbed by his commentary.

mb
 
Ilyushin96M
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RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:08 am

Some EXCELLENT points made in this threat. Good job, guys. I was wondering when someone would see this.

I had a discussion about Bush and his supposed faith just last night - as in, if Bush is such a Christian, then why doesn't he act like one? The answer is pretty simple...just what many of you on here have said...he's using God to justify this war, just like most deceivers use something bigger than they are to justify whatever they are doing.

There have been some pretty horrific things done, supposedly in the name of God. Witness the terrorist attacks, in the name of Allah. Witness anti-abortionists murdering doctors who perform abortions. Witness the insanity behind most cults - mass suicide, ritual killings, etc. These are the same as Bush making references to God in his plans for war. He's got his own jihad. It's disgusting, scary, and at the same time, pathetic, and I wish more of my fellow countrymen weren't so brainwashed that they could see it.

Bush is an unfortunate example of the Christian right in the world - as dangerous, if not moreso, than the Islamic fundamentalists. Among other things, I'm pretty sure the Christian right is clapping its collective hands with glee, thinking their man is going after everyone who doesn't believe as they do. Problem is, they aren't far from the truth.
 
Guest

RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:59 am

Il96M,

You have hit the proverbial nail right on the head. These right wing fundamentalists beleive every word of it, while the rest of us shake our heads.

Even I am embarrassed that our PM in Australia has aligned himself with Mr Bush, it's certainly done nothing but discredit him in this country. And that is not to say we don't like Americans - we just don't like Bush and his administration.

*God* (being the operative word) help us all.

mb
 
hartsfieldboy
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RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:09 pm

War can only leave hate after it ends...... just food for thought

While I still am undecided (seriously) about going to war or not. That statement is not true. Based on my limited knowledge about war, WWII resolved many problems that would have been far worse than not going to war. Same with the American Revolution (or War or 1812, whenever the Brits finally gave up on America).

While I think most wars were unnecessary, I don't think it's fair to say ALL wars never have any good come out of it.
 
MD-90
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RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:42 pm

War only leaves hate after it ends? Tell that to the Albanians.

Tell it to the citizens of East Germany in 1989. Or the Poles.

In fact, why don't you go all the way back to the 300 Spartans and their Thespian allies who died defending Thermopylae against King Xerxes and his Persian army that numbered more than. They were fighting for the very survival of the Western world as we know it. You'd (those of us from Western Europe and the US and Australia) probably have brown skin right now if it weren't for them and the language of this forum sure wouldn't be English.

Hartsfieldoy is right. The Germans were sure glad that we rebuilt their country for them. By the way, Hartsfieldboy, Dad flew down from BDL on Tuesday, and Delta was offering $75 upgrades to first class (767) for anyone who wanted one. Not bad for a $199 ticket and a plane that was only 1/3 full.

Bush is an unfortunate example of the Christian right in the world - as dangerous, if not moreso, than the Islamic fundamentalists. Among other things, I'm pretty sure the Christian right is clapping its collective hands with glee, thinking their man is going after everyone who doesn't believe as they do. Problem is, they aren't far from the truth.

That is complete and utter bull. When's the last time a 767 was hijacked by a bunch of Christians and slammed into a pominant mosque in Saudi Arabia? The so-called Christian right is NOT gleefully overjoyed that Bush is "going after people who don't believe as we do." Christians as a whole probably don't want war, but some things happen even when you don't want them to.

If Bush is convinced that Saddam is a threat, well I trust him a lot more than the pontificating people in the media and the so-called "experts." I have a friend who just last spring was sitting next to me in physics class (both high school seniors), and now he's in Kuwait. I know what war means.

You cannot blame Christians for terrorist attacks done in the name of Allah. Likewise, anyone who would stoop to murdering an abortion doctor in the name of Christianity is someone who has hijacked Christianity for his own agenda, and is NOT A CHRISTIAN IN HIS HEART, which is where it matters. Likewise, 99% of cults have NOTHING to do with Christianity (the Church of Christ of Boston is a notable exception, however).

I don't believe Bush is using God to "justify" this war. He knows how incredibly unpopular it is. Most any other president in recent memory (cough*ClintonorCarter*cough), except probably Reagan would've given up by now and done the popular thing. What is popular is not always right, however.

Thank God there is a Christian in the White House.
 
ovelix
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RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 5:10 pm

War only leaves hate after it ends? Tell that to the Albanians

The Albanians formed a paramilitary rebel army (UCK) and demanded secession from Yugoslavia. They weren't the peaceful people who were just attacked. Don't oversimplify the Kosovo situation, it's far beyond than that.

Tell it to the citizens of East Germany in 1989. Or the Poles

How did war help these nations? No war there. It was a public revolt.

In fact, why don't you go all the way back to the 300 Spartans and their Thespian allies who died defending Thermopylae against King Xerxes and his Persian army that numbered more than. They were fighting for the very survival of the Western world as we know it. You'd (those of us from Western Europe and the US and Australia) probably have brown skin right now if it weren't for them and the language of this forum sure wouldn't be English

Spare me the historical lesson. You are obviously confused here and you need to go 2500 years back. The Persians invaded Greece. Spartans and Thespians were defending their country. Not the same today.

Hartsfieldoy is right. The Germans were sure glad that we rebuilt their country for them

American companies building and american banks financing with loans. Not exactly charity.

When's the last time a 767 was hijacked by a bunch of Christians and slammed into a pominant mosque in Saudi Arabia?

I don't know. But I know a president who is ready to carpet bomb a country using the word "God" in every single public speech about politics and war. We are civilized now.

...anyone who would stoop to murdering an abortion doctor in the name of Christianity is someone who has hijacked Christianity for his own agenda, and is NOT A CHRISTIAN IN HIS HEART, which is where it matters

That's exactly what islamic extremists do. You are looking at the similiarities but you don't see nothing there?

I don't believe Bush is using God to "justify" this war.

Give us your explanation then. Why is he using God? Why is he mixing faith with foreign policy? Why God is in every sentence?

Thank God there is a Christian in the White House.

What else could it be?

Kostas
 
Guest

RE: Bush And God

Wed Mar 12, 2003 5:38 pm

I know enough about god to know that Bush will never meet him.




ADG
 
hartsfieldboy
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RE: Bush And God

Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:33 am

American companies building and american banks financing with loans. Not exactly charity.

So? Who said that it had to be charity? It was the fault of the Germans that the war started, they should've repayed to cleanup.
 
sleekjet
Posts: 2006
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RE: Bush And God

Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:40 am

Agree with MD-90. Thank God we have a Christian in the White House. I wonder if White House maintenance crews have cleared out the, uh, mess left by his predecessor? Hope they used bleach.
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
Jj
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RE: Bush And God

Thu Mar 13, 2003 5:11 am

BTW, I also know what a war is. I lost uncles in Malvinas FYI.

MD 90: I had no idea there was a war in East Germany in 1989... perhaps it was some...... 40 years before?...... and that one left a lot of hate and a divided germany, please don't tell me that was good.

You cannot blame Christians for terrorist attacks done in the name of Allah.

Who said I'm blaming christians for the attacks done in the names of Allah!?

Likewise, anyone who would stoop to murdering an abortion doctor in the name of Christianity is someone who has hijacked Christianity for his own agenda, and is NOT A CHRISTIAN IN HIS HEART, which is where it matters. Likewise, 99% of cults have NOTHING to do with Christianity.

That's exactly what we want you to see. How can you consider Bush a Christian as he's ordering the invasion and the consecuential murders of the Iraqi perople???????????? According to your criteria, he's not a christian. How can you be glad that you have a christian in the white house then?

I don't believe Bush is using God to "justify" this war. He knows how incredibly unpopular it is.

Maybe they just need to teach him the lesson again. He hasn't studied it OK. If he knows how unpopular it is, then why is he doing it???????


Thank God there is a Christian in the White House.

The moent Bush or whoever orders the Iraqi invasion, in my mind Bush stops being a christian. Plus, according to what you stated above about christians in their hearts, etc., Bush is not a christian.

Don't think that war can solve the problem. It wont. It will just create more hate between americans and iraqis, and the consecuence f it, can perfectly be a new war. You wont solve that problem.
 
ovelix
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RE: Bush And God

Thu Mar 13, 2003 5:30 am

Hartsfieldboy

It was the fault of the Germans that the war started, they should've repayed to cleanup

Go read some history. That's exactly what let Germany right to WWII. They were forced to repay the cleanup of WWI.

Kostas
 
777236ER
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RE: Bush And God

Thu Mar 13, 2003 5:52 am

You'd (those of us from Western Europe and the US and Australia) probably have brown skin right now if it weren't for them and the language of this forum sure wouldn't be English.

What is this claptrap? Now those evil anti-Christian Muslims are trying to take over the world?

When's the last time a 767 was hijacked by a bunch of Christians and slammed into a pominant mosque in Saudi Arabia?

When was the last time a bunch of Christians blew up the car of someone who works in an abortion clinic?

When was the last time a bunch of Christians gleefullly informed their congregations of those evil Muslims worshipping their backwards god?

Christians as a whole probably don't want war, but some things happen even when you don't want them to.

Bush wants war...yet he's still a Christian? "Some things happen even when you don't want them to"? Is this the divine Christian answer for all? A refined version of "shit happens"?

If Bush is convinced that Saddam is a threat, well I trust him a lot more than the pontificating people in the media and the so-called "experts."

Ah Bush...the guy who's been the middle east all of zero times? Or am I wrong? Has he actually been there? And yeah, all those so-called historians, scientists and doctors are actually just a bunch of anti-Christian Muslim-sympathisers, right?

I know what war means.

A 16-20 year old from Mississippi. No, I don't think you do. Go to France and see the fields and fields of unmarked graves.

You cannot blame Christians for terrorist attacks done in the name of Allah. Likewise, anyone who would stoop to murdering an abortion doctor in the name of Christianity is someone who has hijacked Christianity for his own agenda, and is NOT A CHRISTIAN IN HIS HEART, which is where it matters.

You cannot blame Muslims for terrorist attacks done in the name of Allah. Likewise, anyone who would stoop to flying planes into buildings in the name of Islam is someone who has hijacked Islam for his own agenda, and is NOT A MUSLIM IN HIS HEART, which is where it matters.

Likewise, 99% of cults have NOTHING to do with Christianity (the Church of Christ of Boston is a notable exception, however).

Ah, good ol' "personal judgement". Who are you to see who's Christian and who's not? Why are you a Christian and they're not? They say they are.

Thank God there is a Christian in the White House.

A bit of a pointless statement, and if there wasn't a Christian in the White House (Christian as defined by MD-90's handy dandy "101 signs that you're a Christian") another God would be praised. Or...praise be to Jebus if this were to happen...people might actually stop praising a mythical omnipotent being and get on with their lives!
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Bush And God

Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:50 pm

That's exactly what let Germany right to WWII. They were forced to repay the cleanup of WWI.

Untill 1927-1928 with the Pact of Locarno where GB and US pumped a lot of money in Germany to rebuild it.

/Frederic
 
MD-90
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RE: Bush And God

Thu Mar 13, 2003 5:27 pm

Spare me the historical lesson. You are obviously confused here and you need to go 2500 years back. The Persians invaded Greece. Spartans and Thespians were defending their country. Not the same today.

When's the last time you read Herodotus' Histories? He is widely considered to be the father of modern history. Xerxes invaded Greece, but the Greeks had a choice: they could either surrender and become vassals to Xerxes, who was convinced that he had the right to rule the entire known world, or fight and remain free. Thank God they chose to fight. They did the right thing, not the easy thing. Because they wanted to be free.

MD 90: I had no idea there was a war in East Germany in 1989... perhaps it was some...... 40 years before?...... and that one left a lot of hate and a divided germany, please don't tell me that was good.

I'm referring to the Cold War.

That's exactly what we want you to see. How can you consider Bush a Christian as he's ordering the invasion and the consecuential murders of the Iraqi perople???????????? According to your criteria, he's not a christian. How can you be glad that you have a christian in the white house then?

There is a difference between war and cold blooded murder. Clearly he thinks that Iraq is a threat to the US and to the peace of the world. Otherwise he wouldn't be doing this.

Maybe they just need to teach him the lesson again. He hasn't studied it OK. If he knows how unpopular it is, then why is he doing it???????

Obviously, there must be some very good reasons for going to war, otherwise he'd be doing the popular and let Saddam continue to murder his own people.

The moent Bush or whoever orders the Iraqi invasion, in my mind Bush stops being a christian. Plus, according to what you stated above about christians in their hearts, etc., Bush is not a christian.

Someone's never heard of the hymn Onward Christian Soldiers. Compared to the Old Testament (and Herodotus), the world is pretty peaceful right now. Sometimes war is unavoidable.

What is this claptrap? Now those evil anti-Christian Muslims are trying to take over the world?

I'm not sure if Islam was even invented by that time (480 BC).

When was the last time a bunch of Christians blew up the car of someone who works in an abortion clinic?

They weren't real Christians. Do you think Jesus would go around killing abortionists? And if we're supposed to try and follow the example that He gave us, well, make your own conclusion.

When was the last time a bunch of Christians gleefullly informed their congregations of those evil Muslims worshipping their backwards god?

Christians know who the real God is, and it's not Allah. However, we do not consider Muslims to be evil or backwards.

Bush wants war...yet he's still a Christian? "Some things happen even when you don't want them to"? Is this the divine Christian answer for all? A refined version of "shit happens"?

How can you say that Bush wants war? He knows that people are going to die. However, he has the backbone to do what he believes is right.

Ah Bush...the guy who's been the middle east all of zero times? Or am I wrong? Has he actually been there? And yeah, all those so-called historians, scientists and doctors are actually just a bunch of anti-Christian Muslim-sympathisers, right?

I don't know what you're referring to.

A 16-20 year old from Mississippi. No, I don't think you do. Go to France and see the fields and fields of unmarked graves.

I'm originally from Connecticut, lived the last 15 years in Alabama, and am going to school in Mississippi. Why should I have to go to France? I've been to Arlington National Cemetary.

You cannot blame Muslims for terrorist attacks done in the name of Allah. Likewise, anyone who would stoop to flying planes into buildings in the name of Islam is someone who has hijacked Islam for his own agenda, and is NOT A MUSLIM IN HIS HEART, which is where it matters.

Now this is REALLY false. Unlike the Koran, the Bible does not instruct Christians to go out and either convert, subjugate, or kill us (the infidels). Christians are supposed to go to all the ends of the earth and preach the good news, not try to eradicate people of other religions. According to the Koran the men who were involved in the 9/11 attack were good faithful Muslims. Islam is not equal to Christianity.

Ah, good ol' "personal judgement". Who are you to see who's Christian and who's not? Why are you a Christian and they're not? They say they are.

Unbelievers may not be able to tell the difference (hence the confusion over the supposed Christians behind killing abortion doctors and godhatesfags.com, etc), but real believers can. You will be known and recognizable by your actions and attitude.

A bit of a pointless statement, and if there wasn't a Christian in the White House (Christian as defined by MD-90's handy dandy "101 signs that you're a Christian") another God would be praised. Or...praise be to Jebus if this were to happen...people might actually stop praising a mythical omnipotent being and get on with their lives!

It's not pointless to me at all. And what, 80% of Americans profess to be Christians. It's not pointless to them either.

God loves you too, Heavymetal.
 
Jj
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Bush And God

Fri Mar 14, 2003 3:41 am

There is a difference between war and cold blooded murder. Clearly he thinks that Iraq is a threat to the US and to the peace of the world. Otherwise he wouldn't be doing this.

Then, to me this is not a war, but a "cold blooded massive murder of Iraqis"

How can you say that Bush wants war? He knows that people are going to die. However, he has the backbone to do what he believes is right.

The only thing that's missing now, is you telling us that Bush tried from the start to solve this situation diplomatically. Please, don't tell me Bush doesn't want war. You're taking all of us for idiots.

Sometimes war is unavoidable.

Huh? You are telling me this a case in which war is unaoidable. Come on!!!!!It's easily avoidable. Just give them a bit more time. It's pretty obvious they can't disarm in a week! Hell, why this sudden urgency to attack Iraq? Give them.... say 3 months.... with constant reports from insspectors who should supervise a disarmament in Iraq. But why do you have to act so fast....? This is the only question that keeps going through my mind. There has to be a reason. A something that makes them want to act this fast.



 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Bush And God

Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:10 pm

Oh really? We're just going to go in and murder every Iraqi we can find, right? Give me a break. We're going to mass murder Iraqis in cold blood. HAH.

If it wasn't for Bush's hard line stance there would be NO inspectors in Iraq right now.

And finally, there probably is something that makes him want to act this fast. I don't know what it is, but none of us have access to the intelligence that he does. I would certainly think that he knows more about this situation than we do.
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: Bush And God

Fri Mar 14, 2003 1:03 pm

WOW, where do I begin? Some of us need help...and fast.
 
Guest

RE: Bush And God

Fri Mar 14, 2003 1:22 pm

MD-90 wrote:

"And finally, there probably is something that makes him want to act this fast. I don't know what it is, but none of us have access to the intelligence that he does. I would certainly think that he knows more about this situation than we do."


This is a dangerous, dangerous attitude. We should never give our elected representatives a carte blanche by assuming that they know more than we do. If we follow that communist-like logic, politicians will end up abusing it.

We Americans select and employ our officials; we must speak out if we feel they are acting inappropraitely. Politicians are answerable to us and we should never assume that their motives are pure, especailly when dealing with a person like George W. Bush (but in other instances as well).
 
strickerje
Posts: 706
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 1:35 pm

RE: Bush And God

Fri Mar 14, 2003 3:48 pm

Thank God there is a Christian in the White House.

Does that mean you wouldn't trust a President who isn't Christian? To me, the President's race, religion, gender, and sexual orientation are irrelevant. What matters is if he/she/it is competant at running the country. But I suppose you're happy, since, if I'm not mistaken, every American President has been a Christian.

If it wasn't for Bush's hard line stance there would be NO inspectors in Iraq right now.

I agree on that. But I think he's taking it a little too far here. Instead of telling them that we will attack if they don't meet our demands, he seems to be telling them that we will attack no matter what they do. I mean, in the last few weeks, we've seen Iraq being very cooperative to the U.N. demands, and Bush is still advocating the war.

And finally, there probably is something that makes him want to act this fast.

Well, one suggestion is that this is the best season to launch an attack in the Middle East because in a few months it will be too hot there.

-Jeffrey S.

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