ryanb741
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Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 1:46 am

I ask this because he didn't use them in 1991 (I never understood why he dodn't but am glad he didn't!). Do you think he will try to use them (assuming he does possess them).
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srbmod
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 3:59 am

He has nothing to lose this time, so he'll throw anything and everything at the forces this time. Iraq has said they'll use "daggers, swords and sticks" against the U.S..
 
heavymetal
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 4:09 am

The answer is yes. Without question.

He has already moved artellery within range of US forces that could deliver chemical tipped shells. Plus yesterday he named the inner-circle thug who carried out the chemical attacks on Kurds 20 years ago as the military boss of southern Iraq, the first stop for invading forces.

Of course, if he uses them first strike, he's delivering a big fat "I told you so" for use by George Bush and Tony Blair. He's going to hold on to the world sympathy card, which in his mind is much much bigger that it really is. But when he finds himself alone diplomatically after 48 to 72 hours of war, all bets are off. By all accounts, he's looking to make his last stand in Tikrit and Baghdad. Thats where most of Iraqi's remaining capabilities have been withdrawn to.

There are no rules to this war. He will use chemical weapons.....plus, he likely will kill US prisoners on the spot, kill Iraqi civillians without a second thought, and target Israel with the most potent instruments in his hands, probably sooner rather than later.

It's going to be an ugly week.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:23 am

Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

It's already happened, against Kurdish Iraqi's.

It's going to be an ugly week.

For Kurdish Iraqi's, it's been an ugly 12 years.




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donder10
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:29 am

I thought Saddam had recently denied that he still had chemical and biological weapons? Smile
 
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:30 am

The US is about to comit an act of war on his country. A war without UN approval, if he has them then he has every right to use them.

I hope he doesn't, but I can't see why he shouldn't.





ADG
 
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yyz717
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:34 am

A war without UN approval

Let's see:
1. France did not ask for UN approval to go into Ivory Coast recently.
2. China did not for UN approval to go into Tibet.
3. Syria did not ask for UN approval to go into Lebanon.
4. Iraq did not ask for UN approval to go into Iran or Kuwait.
5. Argentina did not ask for UN approval to go into the Falklands.
6. Morocco did not ask for UN approval to go into Spanish Sahara.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
artsyman
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:41 am

If Saddam uses Chemicals against Israel and kills a signifacant amount of people in Israel, he will become the new prophet of the arab world. The arab world will see him as the new mohammed. He can't win against the US forces, but he can get some chemicals into Israel....

Wherever you or yours are in the next few weeks, take good care of yourselves and best of luck
 
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STT757
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:49 am

There is UN Approval, there are 17 UN Mandates for Iraq to dis-Arm including the Latest 1441.

That's 17 more than NATO had against Serbia.

Iraq signed a treaty in which they pledged not to develop or field WMDs.

They also were directed by 17 UN Mandates to destroy all WMD, Iraq claims not to have any. If they use any WMD that means they have them and have been in direct Violation of all the UN Mandates.

France, Germany, Russia have been opposed to Military action against Iraq on the Sole basis of there not being proof that they have WMD.

If Iraq uses them, then obviously they have them. Which means the US and UK were 100% right legally and morally to attack the Iraqi regime, which will then make France, Germany, Russia and especially ADG look terrible.

ADG that was pretty wrong to say Iraq has the right to use them, they are not supposed to have them under International Treaty and 17 UN Mandates.

The "Un-Just war" argument is based solely on the theory that Iraq has already Dis-Armed, if they use them they have them which automatically puts the US, UK, Australian and Spanish actions on solid ground and makes people opposed look foolish.
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EA CO AS
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:53 am

The US is about to comit (sic) an act of war on his country.

Technically, we've been at war with Iraq since 1991. The cease-fire agreement (which, by the way, the Iraqis agreed to) basically said "We get to patrol the established 'no fly zones' and put restrictions on your country until we say otherwise."

So we've been in a state of war with this country for 12 years now. We've just now decided that diplomacy is dead and the only thing Saddam Hussein understands is brute force.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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N79969
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:56 am

I agree with Heavymetal and Artsyman. Things could get very, very ugly on our blue planet.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:59 am

Well said, STT757!  Big grin

You replied far more eloquently than I. The only thing I'll include is that several months ago, the President indicated that the use of chemical weapons by Iraq would result in the U.S. possibly using tactical nuclear weapons in retaliation.

Odds are the Iraqis will not use their WMD in battle, but the U.S. commanders will probably find a great many Iraqi officers who are more than willing to show them where they are once Baghdad has been taken.

Again, making France, Germany, Russia, and ADG look incredibly foolish.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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ovelix
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 6:26 am

yyz

Let's see:
1. France did not ask for UN approval to go into Ivory Coast recently.
2. China did not for UN approval to go into Tibet.
3. Syria did not ask for UN approval to go into Lebanon.
4. Iraq did not ask for UN approval to go into Iran or Kuwait.
5. Argentina did not ask for UN approval to go into the Falklands.
6. Morocco did not ask for UN approval to go into Spanish Sahara.


Nice group of nations you put USA with.

Kostas
 
david b.
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 6:30 am

Don't forget about the so-called fair democracy of Israel. They only have 70 something
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
artsyman
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 6:46 am

Where is Saddam anyways, I am pretty sure that when the bombs start falling he wont be sitting in Iraq. I am also pretty sure that he wont have any relevent weapons sitting there to be destroyed by air attack.

Jeremy
 
heavymetal
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:05 am

Saddam is finding his safest cover in the sprawling suburbs of Baghdad. I've read he actually sleeps far from his dozens of charming McPalaces, in random civillian homes, which is interesting....if some sort of a pattern can be found as to the security pre-sweep and chosing of said locations, he's killable.

Unless Coalition Forces have something up their sleeve (perhaps a trusted Saddam lieutenant who spills the beans) and they can cut the head off the snake in Hour One, he'll find relative safety in the sprawl of Baghdad. At least until there's nowhere to go except the sprawl of Baghdad.

That's where we'll either get lucky, his own men decide to cut their losses, or, my own personal belief, he appears magically in Damascus or Tunis, offered exile....he's too much of a bastard coward to actually go down with the Iraqi ship, and my guess is he planned his save-my-ass exit strategy awhile ago.

 
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yyz717
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:23 am

Nice group of nations you put USA with.

Since the UN is a equal-opportunity club for democracies & tyrants alike, if these 6 nations did not need UN approval to go to war, why should the US?




[Edited 2003-03-17 23:25:27]
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STT757
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:25 am

Saddam has a plane waiting for him , either within Iraq or in Syria or Jordan to take him to a certain African Nation.
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ovelix
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:00 am

if these 6 nations did not need UN approval to go to war, why should the US?

Because they are the good guys?
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 11:30 am

Ovelix, the overwhelming majority of conflicts since the UN was born have NOT had any kind of UN sanction. That's a fact. The UN is not a judge/jury as to whether war should/should not be taken.

No nation need get UN approval to take action it deems necessary to it's national security or national interests. That does NOT justify this upcoming conflict, because I believe the case has not been made, but as far as I'm concerned, I'll be damned if the American people have to run to the UN every time there is an event that the U.S. thinks threatens its security.
 
ovelix
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 3:38 pm

Yyz, if you try to justify this war don't use the "Other scums did it too" argument. There are many other reasons and points of view. We may not agree but to think that USA can be justified by Syria and Iraq actions is utterly ludicrous. After all, nobody in the pro-war side used these examples.

Just a clarification.

No nation need get UN approval to take action it deems necessary to it's national security or national interests.

National Security and National Interest are totally different things when we talk about war. The first one lies on the very existence of a nation and its people, the latter can mean many things.

Kostas
 
cba
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 4:00 pm

These next few weeks are going to be extremely hellish. I recently watched a program about Saddam's use of chemical weaponry in the Iran-Iraq war, and they showed footage of Iranian soldiers who had been exposed to these chemicals. It was a disturbing sight to see badly burned soldiers struggling to gasp for each breath they took, with looks of horror on their faces. I do not wish for any of our troops to suffer this same fate.

 
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 4:06 pm

One would have to wonder what Germany, France's and Russia's response would be if they did.


Would they still deny that he had them???
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BO__einG
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 6:40 pm

I wish military action could of still been held back but it seems that its most remotely to happen. I personally don't like war. IN fact I HATE IT!
I think one of the reasons why I don't like it because of the story of my home country of Korea and its fate during the Korean War.
Yes War will solve alot of problems like removal of SadDAM, but it will stir up new problems and reinforce old grudges. I'm glad Canada is not taking part except to the aftermath recovery efforts.

Also I have heard on the news that damm Sad DAM may have purposely removed caps to some of his oil wells thus resulting in oil spilling in the desert.
I really hope that he doesnt pull another Fires of Kuwait. That would be very foolish of him to do such a thing to his own oil in his own country. Perhaps it may reinforce that fact that US forces are just there to steal his oil as some analysts have said.

Anyways, these next 36 hours will be critical for all involved coalition forces. Turkey may potentialy open up some bases to allow a northern front. Israel is already preparing with gas masks and drills. I'm not sure how Palestine's are doing in this situation as whether they too are preparing for the worst or perparing for victory.

US Naval forces are ever so close to the Iraqi coastline. Even if they are still a few hundred kms away they still have enough range to knock out Basra just like that.
Oh yes, and from what a US Military expert on the news had said; the main US armor and infantry divisions(Kuwait) With the Royal Marines MAY attempt a sweeping claw like assault by Aiming to the north then South of Basra just like the German Schieffen Plan in WW1. Goal here is to cut off Iraq's Southern city Links such as Shipping and communications.
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maiznblu_757
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:15 pm

So, I ask, how is this war unjustified if he indeed has chemical weapons? A lot of people on this board are saying he doesnt have them, and we dont have any right to go in. Then again, these same people are saying he will use them. I dont get it.
 
ryanb741
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:35 pm

So, I ask, how is this war unjustified if he indeed has chemical weapons? A lot of people on this board are saying he doesnt have them, and we dont have any right to go in. Then again, these same people are saying he will use them. I dont get it.

My thoughts exactly. If you are anti war then tghat is fine and I respect your opinion but lets not try and pretend Saddam is anything other than the monster with WMD's that he is.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
s.p.a.s.
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:43 pm

...the President indicated that the use of chemical weapons by Iraq would result in the U.S. possibly using tactical nuclear weapons in retaliation.

A stupid a**hole who makes such kind of statement can't be taken seriously...

IF the US forces use nuke warheads (tactical or strategic is bullshit.. both are nuke weapons) then you'd better get prepared for very ugly times indeed, or you really think that:

a) the surrounding countries will approve and accept it, specially Iran
b) the international community will approve it
c) without nothing more to loose, Saddam will not unleash hell on Israel or other opportunity target...he might think "If this is my end, than I will make it such an end worth of remembrance"
d) terrorist groups would't be pleased to revenge with mini-nice-warheads INSIDE the US..

Using nuke warheads will only put more fuel on the fire of hatred that some organizations have for the US and the whole world will be REALLY PISSED about it, but again, I guess that GWB gives a she** for it...

Cheers

RS
"ad astra per aspera"
 
JetService
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:44 pm

Well, nearly all the anti-war folks here have been saying there's no proof of WMD. So I assume when they are used or found, those folks will say "I guess it was justified afterall." Wouldn't you think?
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boeingnut
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:53 pm

If and when Saddam, in his infinite brilliance, decides to use WMDs against our men and women in the Gulf, we can strike back at them AND still maintain the higher ground of not having stooped to use of nuclear warheads. Go take a look over at the military board, and read the thread on the MOAB bomb. Thats big enough to do anything we would want to do above ground, and its still within the realm of conventional weaponry
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NoUFO
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 11:28 pm

France, Germany, Russia have been opposed to Military action against Iraq on the Sole basis of there not being proof that they have WMD.

Nonononono!
Why do you think Russia, France and Germany frequently announced that Iraq had to disarm?
They oppose to military actions because diplomatic efforts haven't failed yet. In fact, inspections finally started to work.
Obviously, you don't know that Iraq itself reported the existence and whereabouts of WMD to the inspectors - late, very late, but the regime did so.

Edit: Here's a joint French-Russian-German statement:
http://eng.bundesregierung.de/frameset/index.jsp

NoUFO

[Edited 2003-03-18 15:34:20]
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jwenting
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 11:47 pm

Nonononono!
Why do you think Russia, France and Germany frequently announced that Iraq had to disarm?
They oppose to military actions because diplomatic efforts haven't failed yet. In fact, inspections finally started to work.
Obviously, you don't know that Iraq itself reported the existence and whereabouts of WMD to the inspectors - late, very late, but the regime did so.


Diplomatic efforts failed with the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990.
Ever since Iraq has flounted the international community.
Inspections should have started to work in 1992, not 2003 (and they're not working now, Iraq is still trying to hide and has the leader of the inspection teams thoroughly subverted as is proven by his report omitting items found by other members of the inspection team as well as his statement that there was nothing to be found made before he even started out for Iraq last year).
The "complete" report Iraq made on demand of the UN (a demand that was backed by a threat of military action if it was incomplete by the entire UNSC) was proven to be incomplete and incorrect.

Iraq has had 12 years to comply with the original resolutions that gave UN memberstates permission to use military force to enforce those resolutions and still they're not in compliance.
There is no reason to ask the UN for another resolution now, and give Iraq more time to create more chemical and biological weapons and the means to deliver and hide them, plus finalise work on their nuclear weapons program (which is exactly what France, Germany and Russia want, in part because they're afraid that any documents found in Iraq by coalition forces would implicate them in breaching the trade embargo...).
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 11:51 pm

What chemical weapons?

Signed,
Saddam Hussien
 
heavymetal
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Tue Mar 18, 2003 11:58 pm

The same chemical weapons that killed 3,000 Americans on 9/11. Dont you remember?
 
srbmod
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Wed Mar 19, 2003 4:18 am

France has now said they will support the U.S. attack only if Iraq uses a WMD. Now isn't that like the bloody French? As Dennis Miller has said "First Iraq, then Chirac!"
 
L-188
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Wed Mar 19, 2003 4:54 am

Could be be entering the CYOA time for Chirac???





Because he knows where a good bunch of the material that Iraq used to build it's WMD's came from?
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david b.
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Wed Mar 19, 2003 4:58 am

yes, it came form the US
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dragon-wings
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Wed Mar 19, 2003 5:11 am

If Saddam uses chemical weapons then the whole world will know he has them and Bush was right all along. But if Saddam doesn't use chemical weapons, and the US doesn't find any chemical weapons or no hard proof of chemical weapons then the Bush presidency is basically over.
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STT757
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Wed Mar 19, 2003 5:14 am

Heavymetal,

Here in NJ Anthrax was used as a terrorist weapon shortly after 9-11, although it did not kill in the thousands it sure did kill.

And the Hamilton post Office is still wraped in plastic, they had to remove postal boxes from Nassau Street in Princeton where the letters were sent.

They have never found out who did it, or where it came from.

But still it was used in biological attacks that killed people and disrupted the lives of thousands.

Please don't make light of such a serious event, the threat is real and so are the effects.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
heavymetal
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Wed Mar 19, 2003 5:20 am

If you think I was "making light of it", you truly didn't get my point. Sorry.
 
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STT757
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RE: Will Saddam Use Chemical Weapons?

Wed Mar 19, 2003 5:28 am

If I mis-understood you then my apologies, I took your post as a sacarsmic remark that Chemical weapons have never been used by terrorists.

I think the Anthrax attacks shortly after 9-11 and the 1995 Tokyo Subway attacks proved otherwise.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757

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