SegmentKing
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I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 4:44 am

Stupid old me somehow thought that Iraq was "disarmed" because they told the U.N. that they were... they had no more scud missles, were getting rid of additional rockets, and destroyed most military arms.

This was under the 12 year accord to "disarm" per the UN.

So anyway

I'm watching TV and I see Iraqi forces firing on US positions and at US/allied aircraft.

Thing is, according to UN 1441, they were not suppose to have any weapons...

so what are they firing at our aircraft? *tongue in cheek*

I praise Bush for going after Saddam when parts of the world said "NO"... although it is NOW clear that Saddam is (and was) in defiance of resolution 1441.

So for all you naysayers, the proof is evident. Bush was right. Time to admit it...

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
L-188
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 4:48 am

Reportedly they are those Al Sayuud (spl???) missles that they where supposed to destroy a month ago.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ryanb741
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 4:50 am

Kuwait confirmed at least 1 was a Scud. Which obviously can't be true, as Iraq doesn't have them. And it clearly is false that the Oil Wells are on fire, as Saddam said he would never do that either.  Big grin
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
erj190
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 4:54 am

I don't remember having heard that Iraq was unarmed.

You can have missiles without having WMD on them.

Additionally, America would most certainly be the most coward nation in the world, waging war against a completely unarmed enemy.

The gallant seals or US Marines, armed with the best Dollars can buy, sent against a country with out any weapons?

You wish.

Actually I am surprised for not seeing the Iraqis chemical weapons already suffocating the US soldiers.

Shouldn't they use their WMD's while they have the capacity to release them?

Where are the WMD's?

Where?

If those weapons don't show up, Mr. Bush's image will go even lower (if that is possible of course)

I am certain the US will win this war. But I must say, I wish they loose many feathers there.
 
ben88
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 4:55 am

Hey smarty they are firing AA fire which is not considered a banned weapon under 1441. If they are firing Al-Samoud 2 missiles it is because they still have at least 80 of those because they were in the process of destroying what they claimed were 120 missiles. Of course now that they are being attacked they will use whatever they have to protect themselves. It has not yet been proven that Iraq has WMD and they certainly have not proven breach of 1441 AS OF YET. Please do research before making ill informed posts.
 
Guest

RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 4:57 am

There was never any requirement for them to *disarm*. The requirement to destroy WMD was specific and did not encompass all weapons. Surely if you are going to comment on these issues you'd make sure you were informed of the facts wouldn't you?





ADG
 
jaysit
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 4:59 am

Not all weaponry is covered by 1441 or the UN agreements of 1991, 1993 or 1995. Weaponry by which a sovereign nation can defend itself by is not covered by any such agreements.

Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
JetService
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:01 am

There are several reasons why they don't use their chem weapons. First off, the open strike crippled their capabilities to use them. Second, they may be smart enough to realize that the US/UK soldiers are well equipped to deal with being gassed, while their own soldiers are not. Third, they were well hidden for the inspectors and its taking time to get them deployed (which they won't be able to anyway).
"Shaddap you!"
 
L-188
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:02 am

Iraq wasn't supposed to possess any missle with a range longer the 150 KM.

That is why those Al-Whatever missles where supposed to be destroyed last month.

If that was a Scud that blows that range restriction out of the water, and I am pretty sure that it was banned by name in the cease-fire.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ryanb741
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:02 am

IMHO, Chemical weapons will be used when Saddam is desperate and the end is near
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
CPH-R
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:04 am

*hint* Kuwait is less than 150 km's from Iraq. But why would we want to bring that up?

If he starts firing at Israel, then you can have a go, until then...  Insane

[Edited 2003-03-20 21:04:24]
 
jwenting
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:05 am

Scuds and all derivatives including the Al-whatever (nice name  Smile/happy/getting dizzy) are indeed banned under treaty obligations.
Their use on day 1 proves that the US were correct in saying Iraq hadn't complied with their treaty obligations (and hadn't cooperated with the inspectors either as the rockets used were reportedly regular Scuds which weren't shown to the inspectors at all as they were supposed to have been in 1992).
I wish I were flying
 
ben88
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:07 am

L-188 they were in the process of destroying those missiles when they were attacked. If it were me being attacked I would stop destroying my missiles and use them against the enemy wouldn't you? What we are arguing is that nothing new has come of these attacks. Saying that AA fire violates 1441 shows segment king's ignorance or total misinformation.

"Thing is, according to UN 1441, they were not suppose to have any weapons..."

This is the ignorant statement we are arguing against.

[Edited 2003-03-20 21:08:59]
 
L-188
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:10 am

Ben88.

The order to destroy those came a month ago.

Why was it taking them so long? How long does it take to run a bulldozer over a missle. I would have thought more then three a day could have been done.

Your right though, He probably was trying to hold on them as long as possible.

That being said, If he had just obeyed UN instructions, he probably wouldn't be under attack right now.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:18 am

Interesting how the enlightened, peaceful Europeans are the first ones to pray for heavy American casualties, isn't it?

I'm hopeful for a minimum loss of live on BOTH sides, with the Iraqi government surrendering as quickly as possible so that humanitarian aid can be implemented swiftly.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
SegmentKing
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:21 am

so these 120 missiles that are in violation of UN 1441, where did he get them? So he destroyed 40 of them.. that still violates the resolation of disarmament.

Or is that just TOO difficult for some of you to understand?

all of the countries represented in the UN supported 1441 and the rememdies if Saddam violated it. He was caught violating it, the UK and US called him on it, everyone else started pouting.

I think it's the politicians of the world that are loosers, not the US.

But I agree with some of the other "Anti US posts". The US should become isolationist. We should mind our own businesses. Lets leave the Koreas alone and let them level themselves. Lets stay out of the Venezuelan regime. Lets let the Palestineans and Israelis keep blowing eachother up. Lets let India and Pakistan go at it.

If we do all of that, and just sit aside, then 1/2 of the globe will be gone due to war, nuclear devices, etc.

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
cwapilot
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:24 am

Have you people ignored Dr. Blix's final report? Remember that one...the one that said IN SUBSTANCE no real progress had been made in the time the inspectors were there. Meaning, for all intents and purposes, 4 months was wasted, while France and the like praised every move by Saddam, no matter how deceitful, as progress. France had no intention of seeing 1441 through, and co-opted the so-called peace movement to provde itself cover. No SUBSTANTIAL progress, just a smoke screen. And this is fine and dandy for some of you, I guess.

While going through this report, as Dr. Blix occassionaly dozed off, France, Germany and Russia continued to spew the same old garbage they have been for months now...we need more time, this is working, etc., etc....It was almost funny, yet sad, watching this exercise in futility and irrelavance. Even Kofi Annan is trying to get them off of it, and trying to get them to focus on postwar issues, in an effort to maintain the relevance of the UNSC. Will France even undermine this? All indications are that they are willing to withhold any assistance, and allow a humanitarian disaster to fester, in order to continue their own political posturing.

The wording has always been IMMEDIATE....for 12 years....IMMEDIATE DISARMAMENT....yet, they still have these weapons in working order, and are using them. The only weapins that have been destroyed besides the handful of missles Saddam hand picked for destruction were those fragments of weapons found in ditches that were destroyed by Allied troops in the first Gulf war. For once, wake up to the facts.
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AlexG
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:42 am

L-188,

If he had just obeyed UN instructions, he probably wouldn't be under attack right now.

Right, Iraq wouldn't be under attack of the UN!

But as we all know, Georgie Boy plotted war long before the first UN inspector set foot into Iraq and what's most obvious, he gives a damn about such bureaucracies like UN resolutions as soon as "his" interests are affected.

That really makes me feel less endangered by Bin Laden and Hussein both together than by Bush and the war industry conglomerate behind him.

<sarcasm>
Has anyone checked if the U.S. have WMD's? Maybe it could be better to bomb them away? Just to make sure???
<
/sarcasm>
 
jaysit
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:49 am

If any of those missiles launched by Iraq are actually confirmed to be Scuds, this would be proof that Iraq had broken the terms of the UN resolution which bans Iraq from having missiles with a range beyond 150km.

It remains to be seen how many they still have.

Still, nowhere did Blix say that Iraq had indeed disarmed, but was in the process of disarming. Yes, some of you were impatient to see all the missiles deactivated ASAP, but unfortunately this was a long, painful process. Sometimes, however, long painful processes are preferable to war. Furthermore, the presence of Scuds does not indicate that Saddam has nuclear, chemical, or biological weapns. Of course, that remains to be seen as this war progresses.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
racko
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:53 am

Iraq was never forced to disarm completly, they were just not allowed to have certain types of weapons. In order to ensure that they disarm completly, the inspectors had been sent in and indeed made progress. They were destroying the El Samud II missiles which had an bigger range than they were allowed. With the threat of an army waiting next door, Iraq complied more and more.

"Have you people ignored Dr. Blix's final report? Remember that one...the one that said IN SUBSTANCE no real progress had been made in the time the inspectors were there."

Nope, but the "final" report never said that, because there never was a final report. The report you're referring to was his second report to the security counsil in the 2nd week of february, after that there was another report which reported about the progress, for example El Samud II destruction and unattended interviews.
 
ben88
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:59 am

"all of the countries represented in the UN supported 1441 and the rememdies if Saddam violated it."

This is not true either. The security council voted unanimously for 1441, but that is far from "all the countries represented in the U.N...15 countries I believe. Once again please refrain from posting misinformation.
 
deltaownsall
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 6:18 am

You can have missiles without having WMD on them.

Erj190- Resolution 1441 bans missiles with a range of 93+ miles. First of all, the Al Samoud II missiles that Iraq was destroying in such painstakingly slow, defiant fashion violate this rule. On another note, Saddam had "promised" that he had no scud missiles, which have a range of over 300 miles. He has already used at least one of these, so in fact it has already been proven that Saddam was indeed lying.
 
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STT757
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 7:01 am

Germany after WWI was not dis-armed totally, through deception, and lack of follow through from the Allies Germany rebuilt it's war machine and went on to start WWII.

The Allies (atleast the UK and US) are not going to repeat that mistake and are holding Saddam's feet to the fire, as we speak!
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STT757
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 7:10 am

From the BBC.com

"The BBC's Tim Franks in northern Kuwait says the country has come under fire from 10 Scud-type missiles, some of which are reported to have been destroyed mid-flight by Patriot interceptor missiles.

One of the missiles landed just 300m from US camp. All were carrying conventional warheads, but US and British forces were taking no chances - donning gas masks and protective gear each time the air raid sirens sounded, our correspondent said.

Scud controversy

Iraq has denied firing missiles into Kuwait.

BBC News Online's world affairs correspondent Paul Reynolds says that if it were confirmed that Iraq had fired Scuds, this would be proof that Iraq had broken the terms of the UN resolution which bans Iraq from having missiles with a range beyond 150km (93 miles). "
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erj190
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 8:11 am

How do we know that the Iraqis used SCUDs ?

I for one don't take what the Americans and the American media say for granted. They will lie their guts out if needed. That's what they do, that's what they always do, and then they will get some excuse to explain why they had to lie.

This does not mean of course, that I think Saddam is a saint.

I would say that they might still be using the ASTROS systems they purchased in vast quantities in the eighties. This are mobile rocket launchers with a range of up to 60Km are not missiles. Although old, Iraq seems to have the technology to upgrade or maintain the ASTROS operational.

They are very mobile, thus the vehicles are quite difficult to track. They can fire and get out of there at around 90Km/H.
 
Krushny
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 8:30 am

Guys, curiously you find good information on this in Israeli media : http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/275256.html .

These FROGS rockets have a 70 km range, so I guess they are allowed under resolution 1441.
 
erj190
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 8:46 am

I was talking about this, which is similar to the FROG's, although more recent, because the ASTROS had some computerized guidance system (for the launcher to aim, not for the rockets themselves)

http://www2.janes.com/public/defpicgal/defgal_020116.shtml
 
deltaownsall
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 9:29 am

a) Just because a News agency gets something wrong in the beginning does not mean that they are purposely lying...most likely in the hurry to get as much info as possible to the public some kind of mistake as a result of haste is the cause.
b) The news here is still reporting that at least one Scud missile was used (as of 7:30est), so US and Israeli News agencies still have conflicting stories. We will have to wait and see which is correct...
 
SegmentKing
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 9:53 am

I agree that the news are a bit oversensationalized. The fact that we have reporters with US troops bothers me. I really don't want to see this war every 2 minutes on TV. (not that there is anything else interesting on TV).

In regards to the post, the facts are still there.

Saddam built (or acquired) these missiles after UN 1441 was passed and said he didn't have them. I'm wondering what else he has that he says he "doesn't have" according to the files he gave to the UN.

Saddam is still in violation of UN 1441 and the remedies allow for use of force to disarm Iraq.

-n
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Guest

RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 10:35 am

Just out of interests, who is praying for "heavy american casualties"?





ADG
 
b757300
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 10:38 am

Just when I didn't think ADG could sink any lower, she never fails to amaze me. All I can say is you're a very sick, umm person, for hoping lots of Americans die.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
airplay
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 12:05 pm

B757300

Before you jump on someone, learn to read. ADG was not hoping for American deaths. She is merely asking for clarification of a previous post.

Does Iraq have weapons? Of course. Did they give them all up willingly? Woul you if you knew the US was coming after you no matter what?

The tragic thing is that if Iraq does manage to use biological weapons, many will say "made in the USA" on them.....kinda Ironic huh?
 
L-188
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 1:33 pm

Roy aka Indianguy, has said he wanted a high american death count.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
airhead711
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 1:43 pm

Everyone in thier right minds knew all along that Saddam was lying about his weapons.Only an idiot would believe him.

 
Sabena 690
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 4:59 pm

And let the exaggeration go on...  Insane

3 rockets, and one of them was a SCUD. ONLY ONE!

And with the poor installations they have, it felt somewhere in the desert. What a threat!!!  Wow!

Oh my God, I would be scared and in danger!!  Wow!
 
L-188
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:17 pm

Sabena 690....

I think your attitude might be different if you knew that missile was pointed in your general directions. Doesn't have to be directly at you.

Besides, Scud missiles and their derivatives where too be destroyed as part of the 1991 cease-fire.

Only need one to be shot at you to prove that Iraq has been in violation and lied about it.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Sabena 690
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:23 pm

L-188, it goes about one SCUD, not about a nuclear bomb etc.

Would they have fired this also without the intervention of the US?

I keep on saying that an integration of the Middle Eastern World in the Western World will stop the extremism. Not by a war.

And the amateuristic way in which the SCUD is shot proves from breathtaking military installations  Nuts
 
cfalk
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:24 pm

ADG, I was talking with someone yesterday who said that he hoped that the Americans would suffer a large number of casualties, preferably by chemical weapons. He said "I would love to see Americans choking to death on TV".

He was a Serb, and also blames the U.S. for the breakup of Yugoslavia.

I also spoke with a Russian, who's father is a senior official at the Chelybinsk Works, which is where all the big Russian tanks are built. According to him, Saddam ordered a huge number of new tanks from there late last year, to be delivered in a roundabout way.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
L-188
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:32 pm

It doesn't matter if US intervention made them fire it or not.

Just possession is a violation.

Just like getting stopped with an open container.....I didn't mean to drink it officer.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
jaysit
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Sat Mar 22, 2003 12:27 am

So far, the WMD claim made by the Bush administration seems like the puffery it always was.

The Iraqi regime is a broken, pathetic one with one megalomaniac believing he had more than he ever did - more irrefutable proof that the sanctions were indeed working.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
L-188
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Sat Mar 22, 2003 12:30 am

Jaysit...The war is still young.

I wouldn't claim the French where right just yet.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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yyz717
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Sat Mar 22, 2003 1:27 am

The Iraqi regime is a broken, pathetic one with one megalomaniac believing he had more than he ever did - more irrefutable proof that the sanctions were indeed working.

A megalomaniac will hang on to power forever. The sanctions were not changing Saddam's behaviour hence they were not working.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Noise
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RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:54 am

I thought Iraq didn't have an scuds! The inspectors didn't find any!

So America was right all along. All who oppose have just been BURNED!
 
Guest

RE: I Thought Iraq Was Disarmed?

Sat Mar 22, 2003 8:24 am

Charles,

my mistake I was thinking about the people in the forums....




ADG

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