Sabena 690
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The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:24 am

I just read a report about the nice democracy in the US.

Apparently, in the country where freedom of speech is holy, people are beaten and arrested by the police because they come up for their opinion.

Bush don't want to come on TV because he doesn't want that he is filmed with people shouting at him.

And this is the nice democracy they want to export and implement in countries like Iraq?

/Frederic
 
toady
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:26 am

I wonder....... Were they arrested for having their own opinion, or maybe because they broke the law of the land?
 
KLAX
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:28 am

I just read a report about the nice democracy in the US.

Been reading "The Sun" eh Fred?

-Clovis
 
TechRep
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:30 am

Endless babble continues. You indicated in a previous thread your information doesn't come from TV or news apparently when it suits you it does. Ill bet your liberal professors are having a field day with Anti-US discussions.

TechRep

 
J32driver
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:30 am

If you commit a crime by trashing property, defacing store fronts, and assaulting police officers who try and stop you, then yes, you will be beaten, arrested, and Bubba is gonna have his way with ya in the drunk tank.

Sabena... you are TRULY out of touch. Everything you see is tinted by your hatred for the Bush administration. I'd be willing to bet that if someone vandalised property in Belgium they would be arrested. Why should it be different here?
 
N79969
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:31 am

Actually Freddy has done a class project which conclusively proves that the US media is biased...thus it must be fact. Plus a Belgian professor said so....it has to be true.

 
TechRep
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:34 am

I will like to see Iraqi citizens vandalizing Suddam effigies and I will think of Sabena690.

TechRep

"Professor, Will the Iraqi's welcome the American's like we did in WWI and WWII?"

Signed

Sabena690


 
Ralgha
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:37 am

You don't even live on the same continent as the U.S., and yet you think you're an expert on what goes on here? Some of those arrests were made in my hometown, and I tell you that I think they were needed.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
 
Sabena 690
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:38 am

N79969,

This is an excellent posting of Hepkat about the media in the US, I quote:

I have to say that one of the first things I noticed after coming to Europe was that people here didn't seem to be living in fear, and that the media wasn't constantly showing doom and gloom stories such as they do in the U.S. When I talk to my family and friends back in the U.S., they basically tell me that people are scared. They're scared of every and anything. They don't know when the next terror attack is coming, they hear everyday about how vulnerable they are, about how in theory terrorists could do this and do that. I think this explains a lot of the hostility and anxiety to go to war that we currently see in the U.S. Everyone's afraid but they don't know what they're afraid of, and the Bush administration and the media keeps feeding this fear with propaganda designed to incite and worry. When I returned home the last time I couldn't believe what they were showing on the nightly news. There was zero international coverage but every 5 minutes you heard "what can you do to protect against the next terror attack?", "how vulnerable is your neigborhood to a terror attack", "how can you protect your home against a chemical attack", "a new report reveals that 63% of Americans are at risk for blah blah and blah" and so it went on all night. No wonder there's this illogical push for a war. People are genuinely afraid and are just DYING for peace of mind! In steps the Bush administration, who has been steering the object of that fear very succesfully for the past 2 years now. A year ago people were afraid of Osama and Al Qaeda. He has not been found, yet today, everyone's afraid of Sadam Hussein. Coincidence?

I realize that what I'm saying might be hard for many Americans to believe, but I think it's one of those things where you have to actually step out of the situation to fully see what's going on.


You indicated in a previous thread your information doesn't come from TV or news

When it goes about my view on the war, no. But when I open tv, and I see an oversight of all the protests worldwide, and they show that in Ameriqa, several protests were stopped by the police in a brutal way of acting, than I ask myself some questions about the democracy in the US.

I'd be willing to bet that if someone vandalised property in Belgium they would be arrested. Why should it be different here?

Maybe because those people were not vandalising, and only expressing their opinion?

Actually Freddy has done a class project which conclusively proves that the US media is biased...

Very true, I'm glad you finally admit it.

/Frederic
 
TechRep
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:41 am

The very fact that one can protest in the USA is all you need to know Sabena690. Ask your Professor if any Iraqi citizen can protest his government.

TechRep
 
N79969
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:43 am

Sabena 690,

"Very true, I'm glad you finally admit it."

Don't recognize sarcasm when you see it do you? You inability to distinguish fact from opinion is amazing for an adult.

America is a free country...but if you destroy property- you're going to jail. Perhaps the rabidly anti-American Belgian media only shows you arrests and not their property destruction.

 
Sabena 690
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:45 am

Techrep,

Ask your professor what the dimension of this unilateral war is in the international politics.

I wonder how shocked you will be if he tells the truth.
 
J32driver
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:47 am

Sabena... wake up buddy... You don't get arrested for protesting in the USA. If you commit a crime while protesting you get arrested. As a matter of fact, Its common practice for protestors to TRY AND GET ARRESTED!! It makes for a better news story. Guess YOU BOUGHT IT... huh!
 
hkg82
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:48 am

Sorry to go off topic, but while the US is probably the freest (if not one of the freest, certainly) country in the world when it comes to civil & political liberties, Hong Kong has been rated the world's freest economy every year since '95 by the Washington-based Heritage Foundation. What do you guys think of this? I personally don't take such surveys in very high regard, especially when they’ve rated Singapore no.2 every year since 1995.

I agree the fact that you can protest in the US says it all.

Hkg82.
 
Sabena 690
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:49 am

Don't recognize sarcasm when you see it do you? You inability to distinguish fact from opinion is amazing for an adult.

Hahaha, the nice thing is that YOU don't see the sarcasm in what I wrote  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Your inability to distinguish fact from opinion is amazing for an adult!!!

You are so silent about what Hepkat wrote of the American media?

And you really think that all those protestors where damaging, vandalising etc? Maybe they were provocated by the police?
 
J32driver
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:51 am

Sabena... I'm sorry you can't see past the end of your nose.
 
Sabena 690
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:53 am

J32driver, this is exactly what is said in Europe about the Americans  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

/Frederic
 
N79969
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:54 am

Sabena 690,

I have no comment on Hepkat's observation. It really does not add to your 'point.' What is your point again?

And you really think that all those protestors where damaging, vandalising etc? Maybe they were provocated by the police?"

Yes, absolutely.
 
LHMark
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:56 am

Sabena, you're just hypothesizing. It's poor logic to assume that, since the protesters were arrested, they were provoked by the police. It might sound like the preferred situation to suit your worldview, but that doesn't make it the truth.

In fact, protesters were warned in advance that bocking traffic in Times Square and on Market Street would result in their arrest (not necessarily their conviction). Protesters were mostly arrested for assault and trespassing. The police did not begin a battle on the streets of America in the hopes of arresting protesters. They would have gone home by 17:00, anyway.

P.S. How are things in Belgium? I used to live in Waterloo, and I miss the place.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
J32driver
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:57 am

Sabena... Have you ever spent much time in America? I'm truly curious. I certainly don't have any ill feelings for you, but I don't understand how anyone can truly beleive the stuff your posting here. Do you really think these people were arrested simply for protesting?
 
Sabena 690
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:59 am

Yeah, and this justifies the arrogant way of arresting them (beat them etc).

Everything is fine in Belgium: our leaders use their brains, nice anti-war protests, the weather is fine, and we have analysts with a good historical knowledge that hit the ball right when it comes to Iraq! What do you want more?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
N79969
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:01 am

Funny that your people with historical knowledge don't remember much about Hitler, appeasement, and so on. Perhaps they are reassesing their options in the Congo since you guys did such fine work there.
 
LHMark
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:02 am

Funny you mention the beating. I was watching video of demonstrations from Cairo, Sana'a, South Korea, the US, and Paris. In every case, the police were swinging their tricks. I guess that's the best crowd control tactic when you're outnumbered 100:1

All this talk of Belgium is making me want a Stella.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
Sabena 690
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:03 am

Look, we have some experience here in Belgium with how you have to keep protests under control, and from what I saw, this was a preventif arrest.

The US likes to act preventif these days  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

 
J32driver
Posts: 385
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:05 am

Sabena... Not a single American in this post have said... yep, your right, they were arrested because they protested.

Maybe that should tell you something.

Again... DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THESE PEOPLE WERE ARRESTED SIMPLY FOR PROTESTING?
 
erj190
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:06 am


Get serious people.

If there was no property destruction you people would get any other argument.

For your information in a dictatorship it is written in the law that you can't speak against the government.

So, you are not arrested, or killed because you were against the government, you are killed because you were doing something against the law.

That is the main characteristic of a dictatorship. There is an institutionalized censorship. If in US there is an institutionalized self censorship behavior, then basic liberties become illegal.

There goes the great democracy we were used to respect. I don't know whether this is the true face of America, or it just a mask created by Donald Goebbels Rumsfeld and other goons.

I suppose that even American basic binary brains can understand that. Although they seem to be unable to understand that even in America there are intelligent people, that actually give use to that thing attached to their shoulders.
 
Eric505
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:06 am

I'll say it again: get a life. Go worry about something else. Nobody cares about what you post anyway as it always has the same anti-American slant.
Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life
 
LHMark
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:07 am

I only saw part of what was going on, as well, but i saw a very different picture. Without the full story, I'm going to assume the more logical of the two options, that protesters who broke the law or got hostile were arrested, while the vast majority did not. It makes more sense that a scenario where the police charged into a peaceful demonstration, committing brutal assault on their own friends, neighbors, and fellow citizens.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
Sabena 690
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:07 am

N79969, you start about Congo. Do I have to start about all what the US did wrong in the past? Forgotten what they have done in the periods of the imperialism/colonisation?

And Hitler is a study object that comes back in the lessons every week, so I think I know more about it than you think.
 
KLAX
Posts: 1568
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:07 am

preventive*

Fred, you have zilch knowledge of the United States, its people, and its laws. So I suggest you shut-your-yapper and whine somewhere else.
I'm going to go protest tomorrow here. My T-Shirt says:
"A bas Saddam! Vive les Irakiens! Vive les USA! Vive la Liberation!"
I'll bet you I get beat-up by the "peacfull" protesters here for that...  Yeah sure


-Clovis
 
JetService
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:11 am

Erj190, you don't get it. Protesting is LEGAL in the USA, but blocking streets while protesting is ILLEGAL because blocking streets is ILLEGAL. Got it?

You can protest, but it doesn't give you the right to break other standing laws. You WILL and SHOULD be arrested.

Understand now?
"Shaddap you!"
 
N79969
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:13 am

Sabena 690,

Sorry to burst your bubble but contrary to what Professor Ass Clown says on the matter, the US is not a colonialist/imperialist. Though we have made mistakes in the past.

So you read about Hitler every week, you are a self-proclaimed expert on the US media. You must be a Hitler expert as well.

Carry on.
 
Sabena 690
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:19 am

No expert, but I have at least an objective view.

And have you forgotten what America did in Asia while Belgium was in Congo?

Oh yeah, you will not like to hear it, but did you know that the Crash of Wall Street, and the American investors which took their money back out of Germany (1929), were the biggest cause of the success of Hitler?
 
J32driver
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:26 am

Sabena... You started this thread, now answer the question. Do you really think these people were arrested JUST for protesting? You seem to be avoiding the question.
 
N79969
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:26 am

Sabena 690,

You are so far from being objective that you are beyond hope.

What is it that the US did in Asia...oh yeah, our military presence keeps old rivalries from flaming up allowing Asians to accomplish an unprecedent miracle in human development. Somehow I think people in South Korea and Japan are a bit better off than in Congo. You might need to do an investigation on that one.

Sorry, the US is not responsible for the rise in Hitler in any shape, way, or form.

The stock market bubble that led to the crash did not create Hitler. Blame the Germans for Hitler. Or blame the French for their punitive actions against Germany following WWI.

But don't blame investment decisions by Americans for creating Europe's worst tyrant.
 
JetService
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:28 am

J32driver, I wouldn't count on an answer. The guy throws stink-bombs and runs. If pressed hard enough, the best you can get is him trying to change the subject or deflect blame like a 6 year old would.
"Shaddap you!"
 
N202PA
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:29 am

I'd also like to add a rider on J32's question for Sabena...If someone is blocking the street in an act of protest (and thus, in violation of the local laws), should they be arrested?
 
J32driver
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:30 am

Jetservice....I figured as much. I just enjoy making things like that VERY evedint.
 
Sabena 690
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:32 am

N79969, to keep it simple:

After the Crash of Wall Street, Germany was almost a third world country because the US investors had taken their money back.

This resulted in 2 political directions: the communists and hitler. Since the bank owners etc etc were the majority, Hitler was elected.

Didn't they see this danger? Yes, but they thought: 'we are the majority, so we can control Hitler'. Sadly enough, once he had power, the opposite was true.

Not that I blame the US for taking their money back out of Germany, but you see that 'US has nothing to do with Hitler' is untrue?
 
airbusluver
Posts: 154
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 6:36 am

Wow Sabena 690-

It takes REAL skill to try and blame the temporary success of Hitler on the US. Maybe you forget that if the US had not stepped in, Hitler would have almost certainly succeded in ruling Europe for many years to come. Although the US has made many mistakes in the past, perhaps you forget all of the good things we have done. Preventing Hitler from taking control of Europe certainly ranks up at the top.

I can see that you have recognized your defeat on the issue of protesting. The right to free speech is upheld in the United States, but there is no right which allows you to block traffic, vandalize, and cause chaos.

It always amazes me how much foreigners seem to think they know about the situation in America. Their opinions are always so strong and non-wavering, when in reality they don't have anything to base them on besides the media, which is often rather biased.

I'm not sure why you are so strongly set against America. Perhaps you should realize the situation you would be in if the US did not "spread its democracy" and rid Europe of Hitler, and then maybe your mind will start to realize the errors of your way.

-airbusluver
 
Sabena 690
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RE: The Nice Democracy Of The US...

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:12 pm

I see that there is something wrong with the archiving of this thread?

Anyway, this permits me to answer the question of J32driver: short answer, YES, it is possible. Ever heard of a preventive arrest?

BTW: more than 2000 people were arrested yesterday. Apparently people tend to become very agressive in the US in their protests?

To come back to this Hitler case: I just gave it as an example to show how you can base you on facts, and on the background. In history books, you will only read the facts (and of course not what is behind the circumstances). If you look at the background, you will see that, due to the investors taking back their money out of Germany, this was the matrix of the success of Hitler. Do not get me wrong: I don't blame the US for this (as you say Airbusluver) because this was a normal reaction. I only want to compare it with Iraq: if you base you on the facts, you think: 'with the war, we liberate the people in Iraq'. There it stops. If you go deeper into the situation, and look at the backgrounds, you will see that it does NOT stop there.

So Airbusluver, you would better take your words back that I blame the US for this because in my original post, I had already said that I DO NOT blame the US for this, it was a normal reaction (with a lot of consequences).

It is sad that so much people only look at the black/white things that Bush says about Iraq, but do not want to listen to deeper consequences etc  Sad

I'm not sure why you are so strongly set against America.

Against BUSH, B U S H

DUMP BUSH NO BOMBS!

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