gkirk
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US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:22 am

Just read on BBC Ceefax that a US F-16 has bombed and destroyed a US Missile Battery used to launch patriot missile, after the F-16 had been targetted and locked by the Patriot launcher. Just trying to find online source for this. This is 2 times this has happened, with the first unfortunatly downing the RAF Tornado...
Try this...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2883171.stm

[Edited 2003-03-25 17:23:23]
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
777236ER
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:23 am

No casualties reported. This is getting a bit silly though...
Your bone's got a little machine
 
jcs17
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:26 am

Its war...stuff like this happens. Thankfully, nobody was hurt or killed.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
KROC
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:36 am

This is getting a bit silly though...

Like JCS said, its war. There is so much going on, there is noway to do it flawlessly. Give me a break. What is getting a bit silly is the fact that even the most trivial piece of news is made into a thread on here. Overkill people, overkill.
 
777236ER
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:41 am

Of course it's overkill, and I realise that shit happens in war. However shooting down Allied aircraft? Shooting friendly missile sites? Something has to be done.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
dc-10 levo
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:43 am

I can't believe this is still happening with the technology we have today. It's a bit stupid and embarrassing for the US.

DC-10

[Edited 2003-03-25 17:43:28]
 
KROC
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:51 am

777236ER. The Patriot aquired and locked onto the F-16. At that point, what is the pilot to think, other than an enemy has him locked, so he fired......

Nothing needs to be done, because efficiency and accuracy is at an all time high......and it is warfare.
 
JetService
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:51 am

DC-10 Levo, its stupid and embarrassing for you if your expectations are unrealistic. Do you know how many sorties have been flown? Do the math and you won't be so embarrassed, but rather amazed that this happens so infrequently.
"Shaddap you!"
 
bmi330
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:53 am

How do the Americans keep having blue on blue (friendly fire) incidents its a bit ridicules and there have been quite a few people on TV former military saying the US military always do it. Why are they so careless ?
 
dc-10 levo
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:53 am

That line "It's a bit stupid and embarrassing for the US" was quoted from a military expert from Sky News.

DC-10
 
777236ER
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:54 am

Nothing needs to be done, because efficiency and accuracy is at an all time high......and it is warfare.

So would you really go upto the family of the two RAF airmen killed and say "shit happens, its war"? I'm not talking about mass sweeping changes, I'm just talking about something technological, something more reliable than IFF. Shooting down allied aircraft is unacceptable.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
KROC
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:57 am

777236ER. Find me a conflict where there was no friendly fire. Nothing is perfect! "shit happens its war" is not an excuse, and my heart goes to the RAF pilots families, and as always there is an investigation into the incident, but there is no perfect way of avoiding friendly fire incidents. Its all part of war...unfortunatly
 
dc-10 levo
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:58 am

Do the math and you won't be so embarrassed

Why should I be embarrassed? It's the US Military that should be embarrassed. With all the technology today, it should be used in wars like this one.

DC-10
 
777236ER
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:03 am

777236ER. Find me a conflict where there was no friendly fire.

I'm not saying it's unavoidable, I'm just saying with all the technology that the US military prosess there should be something reliable to stop friendly fire incidents.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
KROC
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:05 am

Dude, nobody has the perfect system. Not the US, the UK, or anyone.....
 
Alpha 1
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:06 am

Jesus, but some of you people are quite naive. Good technology doesn't mean perfection. Out of all the aircraft being launched, all the missiles being launched, all the bombs being dropped, all the troops being moved, and a handful of accidents happen, and you people say it's "silly" and "embarrassing".

Wake up a little. As long as human imperfections are an equation, accidents will happen, even with the best of weapons' systems. No one should be embarrassed, despite DC-10 Levo's naive asserstion that they should be. It happens, get over it.
 
777236ER
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:08 am

Dude, nobody has the perfect system. Not the US, the UK, or anyone.....

No, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved...which it has to be if friendly aircraft are being shot down. And the French seemed to have solved the problem pretty well. It's hard to shoot planes down when you're drunk on 53' chardonay and waving table cloths all over the place.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
KROC
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:10 am

Can't be improved....they are using cutting edge technology. We just can't snap our fingers and have the perfect warfare technology. Thinking so is ignorant.
 
david b.
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:11 am

Why don't they incorporate a IFF system into the patriot?
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
777236ER
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:13 am

Can't be improved....they are using cutting edge technology

Are they? I don't know, I doubt you do too. Certainly the attack systems are cutting-edge, but is the friendly-fire prevention systems all they're cracked upto be? Considering that the US has accidently shot down a civilian airliner before you'd think the systems would have been improved. Ignorant thinking to say that all friendly fire attacks can be stopped, but surely there is a way of working out if you're shooting at a friendly aircraft or an enemy aircraft?!
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Alpha 1
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:15 am

No, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved...which it has to be if friendly aircraft are being shot down.

Absolutely. There's always room for improvement. That's why one of the matra's of the military is to review mistakes, find out what went wrong, and apply what is learned.

And the French seemed to have solved the problem pretty well. It's hard to shoot planes down when you're drunk on 53' chardonay and waving table cloths all over the place.

It's even harder to shoot planes down when you're signaling "touchdown".
 
KROC
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:16 am

777236ER. My man, nothing is perfect. There is no perfect Anti-Friendly Fire technology. And considering I was in the Air Force as recently as 2001, I have a decent idea on what I speak of.
 
gkirk
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:25 am

Nothing can be done to 100% perfection, its just a fact of life.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Guest

RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 4:59 am

You have to admit that given what happened to the Tornado, the F16's actions were appropriate ...

Guess it was another "software glitch".

Kroc: As they say .. nothing is foolproof. Fools are ingenious.




ADG
 
LHMark
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 5:09 am

On the modern battlefield, this stuff happens beyond line of sight, with only split-second reaction time. It's a reality of cutting edge technology that fundamentally takes people out of the equasion. It's too quick to correct.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
Alpha 1
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 12:46 pm

I heard on one of the networks tonight that the bombing of the Patriot Missile radar was no accident. The F-16 pilot who did the bombing said that the Patriot battery had locked on him, and the only way to save his plane was to launch a air-to-surface missile at the radar site in order ot break the radar lock. I cannot remember which station I heard that on. I think it was a local ABC affilliate here in Cleveland.

If that is true, that was some fancy thinking when the shit was hitting the fan.  Smile
 
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STT757
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:05 pm

These things happen, today a British tank crew fired on another British tank crew killing two.

It's war, people are nervous. If you hesitate, your dead.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
fspilot747
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:14 pm

KROC: "And considering I was in the Air Force as recently as 2001, I have a decent idea on what I speak of."


Were you the locker-room janitor?

I kid, I kid. I really couldn't resist  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

[Edited 2003-03-26 05:18:19]
 
propatriamori
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 3:15 pm

We'll I've heard quite a few high profile "mistakes" concerning Patriot units in this war and it really doesn't surprise me.

- Friendly Fire downing of a Tornado killing 2 aircrew
- 507th maintenance Company convoy getting lost and then ambushed (the 507th Maintenance is a part of 5-52 ADA, 11th ADA Brigade, Fort Bliss Texas)
- Battery Radar damaged by F-16 firing back after "lock on".

The situation in Air Defense Artillery (ADA or "Another Damn Army") has always been focused more on politics, promotions, and who has nicest most bad-ass powerpoint presentation than on battle focused training. This does not apply to everyone involved of course, but I could tell you stories about my time spent in a very different army than the one that is now at the sharp end of the stick kicking ass with the tanks and rifles. An army that bears more of a resemblance to "Catch 22" than what you would think of reading Tom Clancy (side bar - I can't read Clancy anymore because the highly trained, professional soldiers he describes were so different than the reality I experienced. This is not to say this highly trained professional army doesn't exist, its just not ADA). I won't go into specifics because I'll probably come off a little harsh (and I'm not some bitter loner, you'll find others with the same experiences as me). But I honestly believe the aforementioned mistakes and their aftermath wouldn't have happened if the past (and possibly present) commanding General(s) at Fort Bliss had been more focused on training soldiers than on having them eliminate weeds.

My thoughts and prayers for the families and individuals affected, but I really believe these things didn't have to happen...
 
L-188
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 3:19 pm

Despite all that technology, it just takes one switch in the wrong spot to make it worthless.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 4:42 pm

I think what the F16 did was a good call given what happened to the Tornado.

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy

and Kroc .. Overkill people, overkill. . .moderate people, moderate.

 Laugh out loud




ADG
 
Banco
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 5:20 pm

To those who seem to think it is an American thing, I would point out that the British came within five seconds of shooting down a Brazilian airliner during the Falklands War. That one could easily have gone the other way.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Guest

RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:41 pm

To those who seem to think it is an American thing, I would point out that the British came within five seconds of shooting down a Brazilian airliner during the Falklands War. That one could easily have gone the other way.

The obvious difference being that they didn't .. accidents ALMOST happen all the time, but we only ever really talk about those that do occur.




ADG
 
KROC
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:44 pm

I bet the Russians had a fail proof system too right before they shot down KE007 right ADG?
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:57 pm

"I bet the Russians had a fail proof system too right before they shot down KE007 right ADG?"

Oooooo that one hurt, shot down, no pun intended Big grin
 
Guest

RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:11 pm

Kroc,

That doesn't change a single thing in my statment UNLESS YOU have chosen to take what I said to be directed at Americans only and that would be yet another misinterpretation on your part ...







ADG
 
Banco
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Thu Mar 27, 2003 3:35 am

As I said ADG, "that one could have easily gone the other way". They were locked on to it, and a finger was over the button. On another day there would have been another outcome. It wasn't anything other than blind luck that they got away with it - an Argentine spy plane was over the fleet constantly, and they thought it had come back. Not skill. Luck.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Guest

RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Thu Mar 27, 2003 5:03 am

Banco,

Wether is it skill or luck is irrelevant .. yesterday a BAE146 full of civilians was coming in to land on the runway at Canberra Airport whilst an RAAF Plane (either Falcon 900 or BBJ) was taking off on the same runway.

You heard nothing about it, but it would have been front page news if the BAE146 had landed on the Prime Ministers plane.

See the difference?

We can't comment on the difference between luck or skill unless we were there at the time.





ADG
 
Banco
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Fri Mar 28, 2003 3:53 am

Actually I was going on Admiral Woodward's comments in his book about the conflict.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
MD-90
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RE: US Jet Bombs A US Missile Battery

Fri Mar 28, 2003 5:11 am

What about the fact that out of 6 Scuds that Iraq has fired, 2 went hopelessly off course so that they weren't a threat, and the other 4 were destroyed by Patriot batteries?

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-zinsmeister032603.asp

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