racko
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2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:27 pm

At least 14 civilians died, with 30 more injured, when 2 missiles hit a busy parade of shops in Baghdad.

Reuters correspondents say they're at least 15 dead, local people say they are up to 45 casualties.

A US official said on a press conference recently that he can not answer any questions on this issue. He btw also said, when asked about the bombing of Iraqi TV stations, that they only attack "military targets", whatever this means.
 
cfalk
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:32 pm

About the TV station, that is probably a defendable act, as the Iraqi leadership has been using it to encourage forces around the country - some of which may have no other means of getting news from Baghdad. That may well have military value.

About the market, we still have to find out whether it was a U.S. bomb. I expect it probably was - If the Iraqis had done it themselves for propaganda purposes, I would have expected them to make sure that there were at least 100 or 200 casualties, in order to maximize impact.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
david b.
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:34 pm

This is getting out of hand. First a british aircraft was shot down via "friendly" fire. Second, a missile destroyed a oil refinary in Iran. Third, a missile missed it's target. Fourth, a allied aircraft destroyed a missile defense launcher. Now this?

Mistakes happen but 5 in a week?
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
Alpha 1
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:38 pm

David B, again, stop being so damn naive. War is hell. In war, civilians die; in war, wrong targets are hit, despite the sophistication of weapons. Out of a few thousand sorties, and a few hundered missile launches, and the vast movement of troops, you say things get "out of hand" for a handfull of errors. Again, you have no concept of what war is.

I haven't heard you say Iraq is getting out of hand by executing POW's, or faking surrenders. This is war, not some football match.

I feel bad for the civilians who died, but in a known combat zone-the city of Iraq, you take your chances being out and about.
 
voodoo
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:39 pm

Public opinion in the UK, pro-war, peaked over the weekend.
It is now headed downhill again.
The clock has started to tick for Blair.......
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
erj190
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:41 pm


Yahoooooooo !

15 IRAQI's killed... Yehhhhh

..Sorry... LIBERATED.

Sorry Mr. Rumsfeld. I was taken by the enthusiasm over another great success of the crusade against the dirty Muslims that want to keep all that American oil for themselves...

oops, I mean enthusiasm over the military operations to liberate Iraq from the "regime"
 
KROC
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:42 pm

Very well said Alpha 1.

Erj1900. Thanks for showing that niave-ness in full force.....

[Edited 2003-03-26 15:44:27]
 
david b.
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:43 pm

David B, again, stop being so damn naive. War is hell. In war, civilians die; in war, wrong targets are hit, despite the sophistication of weapons. Out of a few thousand sorties, and a few hundered missile launches, and the vast movement of troops, you say things get "out of hand" for a handfull of errors. Again, you have no concept of what war is.



Wrong Alpha1. I do know what war is. My question remains. Innocent people were killed. Now if you wish to put that thought behind you, I don't know what to say. This is not the first time this happend is it?


Well said Erj190.
KROC. Thanks for showing that niave-ness in full force as usual.

[Edited 2003-03-26 15:45:27]
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
KROC
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:46 pm

David B. You don't have a clue how war works. If this was 20 years ago, the civilians that would have been killed would be well above the very few the number stands at now. There is no such thing as a war with no civilian casualties......
 
Amir
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Att. Cfalk

Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:50 pm

Meanwhile it is confirmed that several dozens of Iraqies were killed in that attack. (even German Stations reported this by now)

So you say this is iraqi propaganda and they make sure that at least 100 to 200 casualties are there.

::::::::

So maybe they wait to see where the US missile is going to hit and then they direct people there to ensure enough deaths!

And bombing a TV station is also a defendable action!

This is so sick! iam impressed by the mentality of some of the A.net crew!

Regards
Amir
 
jessman
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:51 pm

In WWII, the last big war, We were happy if the bombers hit the right city. 60 years later we're not happy if the bomb misses by an inch.
Too bad. War happens.
 
Amir
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:57 pm

Jesseman:

what a qualified argument!
so war happens! why not in the US if you are so keen to have one!

Regards
amir
 
jaysit
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:58 pm

This is war and its tragic.
Did we really expect this to be a war in which Iraqi children cheered as missiles neatly missed them yet shaved the mustaches off Saddam's republican guardsmen?
No.
As much as I was and am against this war, I hope we finish it off decisively and not turn it into another Vietnam. For us and for them.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
cfalk
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 12:08 am

So you say this is iraqi propaganda and they make sure that at least 100 to 200 casualties are there.

Amir, I did not say that this was an Iraqi propaganda ploy. In fact I specifically said that it was unlikely - the death toll is too low.

The Iraqi leadership has no qualms at sacrificing Iraqi lives if that's what it takes to stay in power. That's a proven fact. The only reason we are having this war is because of this illegitimate dictatorship refusing to step down.

So maybe they wait to see where the US missile is going to hit and then they direct people there to ensure enough deaths!

No need for that. They have plenty of explosives of their own.

And bombing a TV station is also a defendable action!

All it shows is Saddam propaganda and instructions. What use is it to anyone? It's not as if they blew up the Disney Channel.

As others have said, War is Hell. The best way to limit the damage is to make it as uncomfortable as possible for the enemy to continue. That means hurting him.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 12:11 am

Erj190, again, you show a terrible naiveness for the whole conflict.

David B. Yeah, innocent people got killed. Show me a war where that hasn't happened, and then you can bitch about it.

And bombing a TV station is also a defendable action!

Amir, yes, bombing the source of Iraqi propoganda IS a defendable action. You try to cripple your enemies ability to communicate, whether on the battlefield or in any other way. Again, this is well within the realm of acceptable targets. As far as I'm concerned, Al Jazeera is a legitimate target, but that won't get hit for political reasons.

Again, the mindless voices who will not even dare condemn the execution of American soldiers, or the public questioning of American POW's on TV get all upset over anything that happens to the other side. And you say we're sick? Take a hike.  Smile
 
Amir
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 12:17 am

Charles,
If the TV station is of no use as you say then why bombing it at first place.
and after all leave it to the Iraqis, it's non of the business of the US to bomb this station. Let me bet: the new one will be made in USA.

Once again we have this arguments that Shit happens in war which is true but the next time a bunch of invading soldiers are killed in Iraq (weather assassinated or killed on the battlefield) other rules apply.
What iam trying to say is: when Iraqis are killed then you Pro_war guys start saying that shit happens. When a few Invaders are killed you start arguing about the smallest details like the Geneva convention.

Regards
Amir

 
KROC
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 12:18 am

In the meantime, the news of the first Humanitarian Aide, and the soldiers that are talking with Civilians and distributing much needed water and such. Americans are evil. Obviously we don't care about the civilians.....  Yeah sure
 
jaysit
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 12:23 am

"As far as I'm concerned, Al Jazeera is a legitimate target, but that won't get hit for political reasons."

But we are not at war with Qatar.
And if thats a viable target, then CNN and FoxNews are ready targets too. Aaron Brown is harldy offering a neutral viewpoint.
I don't understand Arabic, but I have read a few translated English transcripts of Al Jazeera news casts and frankly they're really quite interesting.
There is another view point besides the prattle dished out on CNN. We may not like everything that plays out on Al Jazeera, but if anything, Al Jazeera is the one beacon of free speech in a region bereft of it.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 12:23 am

Amir, ANY propoganda arm of an enemy is fair game, especially one as "fair and balanced" as Saddam's media. Why is it you are so naive on what goes on in a war? Civilians have ALWAYS died in warfare. Enemy communications have ALWAYS been a legitimate target in warfare. Why this child-like naivete on what war is about.

And it is quite amazing you don't even not how few civilian casualties there have been in this conflict-even Saddam's "fair and balanced" media hasn't been able to lie about it. So what's your problem? You wail when one civilian dies, yet you basically condone the execution of American soldiers. And you want me to take your views seriously?
 
erj190
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 12:24 am


Don't worry Jaysit

From the tactical point of view, there is no possibility of this war turning into a Vietnam.

Not even a new Stalingrad (which, we must not forget was a 300.000 citizens city, very tiny if compared with Baghdad).

As I see it it looks more and more like the fall of Berlin in April 1945.

Yet, in April 1945, The most important German General Gottard Henrici (not to confuse with Heirich Himmler) refused to send the 56th armored Panzer division (the last large German Panzer formation) to fight within Berlin. Also, the 9th Army of General Busse went west to join with the German 12th army of General Wenck, and both armies surrendered to the US forces.

Only the SS forces, the Hitler youth, and the Volksturm (kind of militia) were left to fight the Russians.


I don't know, if the Iraqi leaders will do the same thing (meaning avoid entering Baghdad with heavy forces)

Tanks are not quite helpful in cities, but Baghdad is actually quite similar to Berlin. Very large streets, crossed by a river, with some channels. The similarities are very large. (Baghdad being actually larger than Berlin).

When Baghdad is taken (And there is no doubt about that) it will be the largest city in history to be taken in combat.



 
Delboy
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 12:32 am


Some civilians got killed, it's all part of the 'acceptable risk' that's looked at when planning operations. It's exactly the same when an aircraft is designed, they take into account how many would die in a crash scenario and work that out over a number of flight hours/cycles...then call it acceptable risk.

Sadly, some civilians will perish in this conflict and yes, I've no doubt there will be other friendly fire incidents but the main thing is we get rid of that despot, Saddam.
 
Krushny
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 12:35 am

I believe the Russians took 100,000 dead+injured in the Berlin battle. The Allied will sure not get so many casualties but it's going to be quite nasty if the RG and Saddam decide to fight to the last man.
 
erj190
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 12:38 am


Alpha 1

I would say that again, you are showing your unfortunate and poor capacity to judge.

I would advise you to start some reading, learn some foreign languages, tune on some non Nazi-American-Right Wing-Republican media, try to understand both sides.

Then, maybe, MAYBE, you are capable of addressing me, with some acceptable arguments based on something else than plain hatred, and senseless US-Patriotic crap.

Unlike what you may think, as result of the thoughts inside the small nut that you may have inside your head, and that you claim to be you brain, I AM NOT ANTI-AMERICAN.

But I am Anti Mr. Bush/Hitler/Rumsfeld/Goebbels and the likes.

It is a gang of dangerous people, which I believe in the end, even if they do not face the justice of man, will face a higher court, where there will be no appeal.

I believe that in the end this people will be in a place that will make the Iraqi desert look like Alaska.

 
Amir
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 12:38 am

Alpha_1

....al Jazeera is a legitimate target!
you and your president are very similar: do you speak Arabic dear Alpha_1? how can you damn it, and other fellow clever pro war Americans judge about a news station that you don't understand? Let me congratulate you of being the smartest forum member since you can value things in the dark.

If i was mad i would start debating about hitting CNN in Atlanta? by the way Al Jazera was a target for internet attacks during the last two days. It is back to normal operation now.

So Foxnews and CNN are only telling the truth! my goodness, all TV stations are sort of manipulating these days but and after spending hours watching/reading following stations:
- CNN
- Fox
- BBC
- Al Jazeera
- Al Hayat (in London)
- Al Ahram (in Cairo)
- Teshreen (Syria)
- Al Shark Al Awsat
- N-TV (Germany)
- N24.de (Germany)
- Focus.de (Germany)
- Jerusalem Post

I am at least in a better position to conclude for myself and i can tell you that the least biased of al the above is Al Jazeera.

Sometimes I doubt that many forum members here are indicating their true age in their profiles.

Regards
Amir


 
cfalk
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 12:41 am

Amir, don't you understand a little sarcasm?

I for one would not mind CNN going down (I'd let the people out first, except for Ted Turner if he were still there).  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Long live the BBC!

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 1:02 am

Erj, I don't watch Fox more than a few minutes a day. But if you're assertion that U.S. media is "Nazi", then there's no point in discussing anything with you. You tell me to get educated, but I wonder what kind of "education" you had in coming up with such nonsense. When you grow up, maybe I'll talk to you some more. But if you start from that premise, forget it. There's nothing to discuss.

Amir, Al Jazeera, unbiased? When they are OBL's personal PR firm? When they've become Saddam's personal tool to prat out American POW's, and show executed American soldiers. The gullible will believe that, but not me.
 
Amir
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Alpha_1

Thu Mar 27, 2003 1:09 am

So you don't give up? even that you don't understand what they say you stamped them. Or is it that you take for granted everything your masters tells you. ... his masters voice  Wink/being sarcastic

Media has to report facts, OBL and American POW are also facts!

Regards
Amir


 
erj190
Posts: 371
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 1:13 am


Alpha 1
======
Again, lacking arguments of any sort your last resource is to distort other people's arguments and posts

I have said that I consider the US administration as NAZI-like in most aspects. I have already in most posts explained the fundamentals and my reasoning.

Your capacity to distort what other persons post is outstanding.

I have not said that US media is NAZI, yet, some of the US media acts writes and broadcasts like if they were.

This is of course not only my point of view.

You are of course free to post whatever biased crap you want, I for one defend your right to do so. But I don't think you will be given much credit if all your arguments are based on distortion of other people's posts.

I am reaching the same conclusions other persons have already reached. Your "maturity" is something that could be discussed.

My best regards
 
jaysit
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 1:15 am

"When they've become Saddam's personal tool to prat out American POW's, and show executed American soldiers."

Come on, Alpha.
Sure Al Jazeera has its biases like any news organization.
But I think that showing the murdered US POWs did just as much damage to the Iraqi regime by showing them to be a bunch of cold-blooded thugs. Its not like the photographs and footage were accompanied by Saddam-isms like "the Imperialist dogs met their just ends." A friend who is an Arabic interpreter told me that Al Jazeera actually stated that the soldiers had apparently been executed in full violation of international law. A lot of people believe that Al Jazeera gives you the news unfiltered and raw, straight up, and you can do with it as you please.
I dont know what to think about the OBL schtick though. But its apparent that OBL is seen as less than a monster in the Arab world, which is a tragic testimony to the current state of US-Gulf relations. Kind of like a rosy apple rotten at its core.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 1:15 am

Amir, I don't need to speak Arabic to understand that everytime OBL has something to say about killing Americans, he turns to Al Jazeera. Unbiased? Forget it. Not in this lifetime.
 
erj190
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 1:32 am


If I may say.

We must not forget something.

Al Jazeera, as other TV stations in Iraq, is subject to censorship of the Iraqis.

Whenever the BBC broadcasts something in those conditions, they allways remember that the broadcast was subject to UK, USA or Iraqi restrictions.

I am certain that Al Jazeera, when broadcasting from Iraq, will be subject to the same restrictions, even more, because the Iraqis can easily detect "non favorable" reports, as they are broadcasting in Arabic.

It is reasonable to conclude that, should Al Jazeera broadcast some less-favorable-to-Iraq broadcasts they would be much more interested in shutting them Up.

Al Jazeera, at Basra reported that there was no notice of any uprising, they are the only (more or less) credible TV station at Basra. But, if they are subject to restrictions, we can conclude that they may not be telling us the whole truth.
 
jaysit
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 1:36 am

"Al Jazeera, as other TV stations in Iraq, is subject to censorship of the Iraqis."

Doesn't Al Jazeera only broadcast from Doha? They surely do not have a broadcasting station in Iraq?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Amir
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Alpha_1

Thu Mar 27, 2003 1:39 am

Though i have to go now a short reply:

once again you show your lack of knowledge about this part of the world.
What do you think OBL will go to a non Arabic TV Station to broadcast his messages????? of course he will not do.
Since AL Jazeera is the least biased Arabic station he can be sure that his stuff will be aired without censoring. The is no other Arabic speaking TV station that has such a complex infrastructure in and around Afghanistan like Al Jazeera.
All other big Arabic state owned TV Stations are well biased for your information.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 2:07 am

Alpha 1, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

I also think you should stop arguing with these half-wits on here. They won't give up the beliefs they so desperately cling to, no matter how many facts you put in front of them.

They're wastes of skin, essentially. Best used as a doorstop or a paperweight.

Just relax in the knowledge that you're right and they're amazingly wrong.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
jaysit
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 2:21 am

"They're wastes of skin, essentially. Best used as a doorstop or a paperweight."

Alpha proposes viable arguments. You do nothing of the sort.

Al Jazeera is a very radical experiment in a region in which free speech is an unknown commodity. It is funded almost entirely to the tune of US $ 30 million by Sheikh Hassan of Qatar who singlehandedly imposed radical human rights laws on his Sheikhdom (voting rights for women, a free press, mandatory education, etc.) as well as a very pro-US foreign policy. Many of these policies are not exactly popular in the Wahabist society of Qatar. By taking a hands-off approach to Al Jazeera, the Sheikh prevents allegations that it is a pro-US propagandist tool. I believe that the OBL rants on Al Jazeera are followed by significant debates as to his character and call to arms, although I may be wrong. Censoring OBL altogether would probably detract from Al Jazeera's credibility in the region, although I hope that tactical reasons are why they put him on in the first place and not as an anti-American screed.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
erj190
Posts: 371
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 2:42 am



Al Jazeera is not broadcasting live from Basra.

The record their reports, then they are delivered to Iraq officials so that they can be liberated. Iraqis are not going to loose their chances to influence Arab public opinions.

While Al Jazeera can be as unbiased as they may, in Qatar, their staff on location (Basra and Iraq in general) is subject to obvious restrictions
 
b757300
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 2:58 am

Once someone degrades a conversation by using "KKK", "Nazi", "Fascist", etc then it is best to just ignore them. It is impossible to say anything to them because their minds are so closed up nothing can get inside.

Oh and David B, we didn't destroy an oil refinery in Iran. One or two TLAM's landed close to an oil refinery. Also, an Iraqi TBM landed in Iran as well.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
airplay
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 3:18 am

Alpha1,

American POWs get paraded in front of the media, and I say "so what..what did you expect in a war". You attack me for being so callous.

Iraqi citizens get killed by American "mistakes". You say "stop being so damn naive. War is hell. In war, civilians die; in war, wrong targets are hit, despite the sophistication of weapons".

What a hypocrite!

I'll explain the differences to you here. The invading coalition force is a military group. They didn't bring their children or other family members with them. They came with weapons and they are going to use them.

The Iraqi civilians are caught in a war zone that the coalition created. It is much more tragic when innocent people are killed than when military personnel are treated contrary to international conventions.

The Iraqi people didn't ask the coalition forces to come and kill them. They shouldn't be expected to be responsible for living in a war zone that George Bush created....

Some civilians got killed, it's all part of the 'acceptable risk' that's looked at when planning operations.

What an idiotic statment. Acceptable to whom? George Bush? Why don't you go and ask the family of the dead what is acceptable??




 
KLAX
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 3:21 am

British soldiers distributing aid today were fired upon by an Iraqi sniper near Basra.

-Clovis
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 3:38 am

Second, a missile destroyed a oil refinary in Iran.
**************************************

According to all recent broadcasts out of Iran, and official statements from Iran, the missiles that hit Iran actually came from Iraq not the US. The markings on the missiles were clearly Iraqi.

Third, a missile missed it's target.
**************************
a missile ?... not all can be perfect

Fourth, a allied aircraft destroyed a missile defense launcher.
***********************************

I think every pilot from every airforce would have destroyed that missile launcher. He had about 8 seconds to decide what to do, realised he was locked onto, I would have destroyed it too..

I am also curious if the GPS jamming equipment sold to Iraq from the Russians is having an affect on these missiles, that is their purpose, to redirect missiles, so for a few to go missing after such perfection as far as targeting at the begining, this may be a reason.

 
jaysit
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 3:50 am

"It is impossible to say anything to them because their minds are so closed up nothing can get inside."

Yep, you should know.
Need a missile to crack open your closed mind.

Erj190:

"While Al Jazeera can be as unbiased as they may, in Qatar, their staff on location (Basra and Iraq in general) is subject to obvious restrictions."

Well, they are still operating in Iraq. And any news reporting on Iraq, other than pointless camera angles of David Bloom in army fatigue is a welcome addition. If nothing else, at least they can provide images of the war - and then the global public can make up its mind as to what those images represent. Do you know if the BBC have the same access as Al Jazeera does?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
GC
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 3:50 am

BBC and Sky News are reporting that the Pentagon are saying it was a US missile which was aimed at an Iraqi missile silo which was placed only 300 feet away from the market and homes. Human shields anyone? If it's true then the Iraqi army's conduct is sickening.
 
go canada!
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 5:23 am

"My question remains. Innocent people were killed. Now if you wish to put that thought behind you, I don't know what to say. "

excuse me, david but when it comes to 14 israelis being killed in a delibrate suicide bombing you and the pro-palestinaisn inferred and implies that it didnt matter. the pro arab group then went onto mention the number of palestinains that have died and said that all deaths are regretable but what about the other side.

So what about the other side, what about the 2million saddam has killed intentionally?

14 iraqis dying is unacceptable but this is what happens in war. you and others basically said this in so many words when it comes to israeli deaths, you cannot have it both ways.

civilains do die, we all knew this, this is war was a last resort, its horrible that civilains die, this is why we are at war, to stop saddam killing any more.

we also have to ask why were they shopping during an air raid, where the sirens working, did iraqi tv tell them they would be safe knowing that there was a risk of attack?

we also have to remember that in the last two days iraqi troops have been killing their own people in brasra.

It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
erj190
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RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 5:38 am

Well, Gc. Were you expecting the Iraqi army to behave according to the US military regulations?

Why should the US military regulations be respected?

We are in the face of an asymmetric war. In this kind of conflict, each side tries to maximize it's possibilities to hit the enemy where he is believed to be less strong.

The US uses the means it has. The money of the US military allows the US to be able to get the best money can buy in terms of weapons.

The Iraqis have nothing of the sort, where should they base the strategy?
If you were an Iraqi, how would you move your troops?
What would you do to maximize your possibilities in face of a overwhelming force?

It seems to me that the US military were expecting to face an army, which, without having the same weapons the US has, or any other weapons that can be in fact effective, would act - in tactical terms - in the same way?

Only, the difficulty the US military (Heinrich Rumsfeld influenced) in understanding the world, the Arabs, the Muslims etc. Can explain this way of reasoning.

I am not saying that I agree with whatever the Iraqis are doing, but it seems to me that Rumsfeld and his goons, led the US public opinion to believe the war would be a walk through the desert. Now, the result are this silly arguments that the Iraqis are fighting without honor.

What kind of honor is there in attacking an enemy from the air, from 30.000 feet, killing whoever is near the target, and knowing there is NOTHING that they can throw back at you?

What honor is that of the crew of an M1A1 fighting men armed with Winchester (World War I) guns?

Those that so blindly accept everything the US military says, and so blindly believe in everything the US Rumsfeldian-Nazi-Right-Wing-Republican press says, could do well in trying to put themselves in the shoes of the other guys.

I know, I know, I know...

That, would require a lot of thinking, which is something that the right-wing-republican-Nazi-influenced America is really not ready to do.
 
Amir
Posts: 1224
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 8:56 pm

RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 6:14 am

Dear Go Canada,

so you say that it's the fault of the people to go shopping in war.... and maybe it's the regimes propaganda to send them to their death...

If you have been in your house for days because some major country wants to free you from a bad regime, there is no 711 around the corner nor is there any online shopping.

Your posting is so careless and arrogant towards those who died there. Even worse than Zionist propaganda (i acctually believe you are one)

Regards
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 6:19 am

amir,

you do not know me yet you have indulged in another attack on me.

i am questioning why people went out when an air raid is on, i dont believe they would so i suspect that iraq didnt warn these poor innocent people and they have ended up being bombed.

its common sesne not to go shopping when bombs are raining down on you.

america is to blame for firing missles, yet it did not intentionally try to kill them but 14 civilains died when they didnt need to and i suspect that the regime did nothing to help them.

its a real shame that civilians are caught up in this and its a shame that they werent warned, which i find strange since al jazzera and the bbc have both reported that the iraqis know when the b52s bombers are leaving as they see them on tv, therefore since they all know that it takes 6 hours then in six hours time u would expect not to see many iraqis about as has been the case.

you watch the tv when baghdad is being bombed, there are no cars, no civilains nothing therefore it is fair to suggest that these poor people werent warned.


dont throw about erms used by terrorists when you are unsure of the meaning of them, i am not a zionist. i am making allowances for you but there are so many that i will make.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 6:24 am

The U.S. says that it still investigating the blast, but so far has not identified any missile of theirs which failed to reach its target today and they don't know where it went. They say they dstill don't know what caused the explosion.

One analyst speculates that the blast may have been caused by an Iraqi anti-aircraft missile which came back down onto the market.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
jessman
Posts: 1457
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 1:11 pm

RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 6:38 am

Jesseman:

what a qualified argument!
so war happens! why not in the US if you are so keen to have one!

Regards



It did. Don't you remember 11SEP01? Within days President Bush said we were at war, we were attacked on our own soil. He said it would be a long war. He said it would be a war unlike any other. He said it would be a preemptive war. He said we would go after the terrorists AND regimes/countries that harbor international terrorism. We all cheered. I don't forget.
Saddam is crazy, he has had and still has chemical or biological weapons. He supports international terrorism (USD 25000 to suicide bombers is well documented) and is therefore a legitimate target. I am all for getting him before he gives weapons to those who would like to kill me on my soil.
Saddam is maybe not a threat as saddam, but that is only for the reason that a drug dealer is not really a threat. The crazy junkie who needs his fix is the threat. But if you eliminate the dealers you eliminate the junkies. This is not unprecedented. When Japan bombed pearle harbor the United States started fighting Germany. Germany hadn't bombed us, but Germany had chosen to allign herself with those that did bomb us. For better or worse Saddam has chosen to align himself with international terrorists.

[Edited 2003-03-26 22:57:42]
 
galaxy5
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 10:09 pm

RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 6:48 am

Ive got an Idea why dont we take the Advice of others on here and wait and see what the actual information is concerning this incident, right ADG. Lets not jump to conclusions and blame the US right away, lets wait and see. It works both ways right?
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: 2 Missiles Hit Baghdad Market

Thu Mar 27, 2003 6:50 am

adg is bound to say galaxy that your making it up as you go along, taking her words out of context and that she never alluded to that.

she will say the same about what i have just said.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit

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