charleslp
Posts: 321
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 9:33 am

The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:10 am

I heard that the some sections of the Autobahn have no speed limit. However, I also heard that most of the Autobahn has speed limits, but they are around 80mph (130 km/h) and are "recommended" speed limits. Is this true?
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:15 am

Vast parts of the Autobahn have no speed limit at all. You can do whatever you want. However, there is the "recommended speed", which is indeed 130 km/h. If you do more, you can be judged partially guilty of crashes, for example. But in the end, you can do those 250 km/h or more legally in Germany.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:21 am

In dense areas, there are speed limits, which makes sense. I think the lack of speed limits forces people to drive more prudently. You don't get people hogging the left lane in Germany because they know soon enough somebody will be coming along at over 200 km/h.

I wish speed limits would increase in North America. For instance in Portugal, the speed limit is 120 km/h, and anything 30 km/h over the limit is seen as a minor infraction. I think this is a good system and would work well in North America. You could drive at 130 or 140 and the worst you'd get is a minor ticket. Most people drive 120 to 130 anyways, and outside the cities, many drive at 140 if the weather is good.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:26 am

"You don't get people hogging the left lane in Germany because they know soon enough somebody will be coming along at over 200 km/h."

Now how nice would that be... Sometimes, there's just that little Fiat Punto in the far left lane of a three-lane (in each direction) Autobahn, doing 110 km/h whilst trying deperately to pass those trucks and making you slam the brakes. But doing 150 and being passed like wooooosh by a beemer isn't that great either.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
charleslp
Posts: 321
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 9:33 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:28 am

The problem with many local areas is that some towns are "speed traps," which means that some cops are desparate for money. As for increasing the speed limit, you might need to "improve" the driver education program before doing so.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:34 am

"As for increasing the speed limit, you might need to "improve" the driver education program before doing so."

Sounds logical to me. Wanna know what I spent on my driver's license? Some 1700 €, all in all... However, as for speeding traps - they're a real plague over here. The worst are those in residential areas which take a neat photo of you doing 35 km/h, where 30 is allowed. "Reason": playing children. Children you've seen playing during the last 20 minutes: zero. Real reason: They need money.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Guest

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:39 am

I wish they would *up* the speed limits on some of our freeways.

The state limit is 110km/h and most people when there is little traffic do around 140km/h.

We also have these annoying *variable speed limit signs* which change the speed limit due to the conditions.

Also springing up all over the state is *permanent speed limit cameras* where you get 3 warning signs before the speeding camera. Everyone just slows down as they pass them then speed right back up.

mb

clown cars are evil
 
Guest

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:40 am

Autobahns and ... Americans... (the 90 km/h people) -
xxx
Due to the oil crisis in October 1973, in the USA, maximum speed was reduced by federal law to 55 mph (88 km/h) everywhere...
xxx
In Germany, the good little soldiers of the US Army were told not too drive over 88 km/h... on the autobahns... the result is, there were many accidents. US Forces personnel based in Germany had twice or three times the incidence of accidents... Americans are know as "dangerous drivers" in Germany...
xxx
You want to drive in Germany - conform to their "normal speeds" - I would personally recommend 120 to 140 km/h as "standard" speed (about 75 to 90 mph) if you are a little lady going to church service in Mannheim...
xxx
And stay AWAY from the left lane at these slow speed... When you are SLOW drive on the RH side of the road...
xxx
And when some Audi or Mercedes flash headlights - means "clear the way" - these guys are closing on your rear - at 180-250 km/h...
xxx
(s) Skipper  Smile
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:43 am

Oh yeah! The flashing headlights! It's actually allowed to do that! IN GERMANY!
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
BlatantEcho
Posts: 1820
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:11 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:49 am

Plain and simple, while raising the speed limit in the US would be great, I don't wanna see it until driver certification and training is WAY more extensive.

It's possible to do it safe, as you see elsewhere in the world. Don't wanna see moms in their SUVs do it, but when they get 4mpg @ 110mph, maybe that fad will finally end?

Anyway, it's very rare to get a stretch of highway (in Northern California at least) where I could really open up to around 120 or so. Used to hit 105 daily on my way to work, but only for a tiny stretch cresting a hill.

damn shame too, we got shit drivers here who get in accidents at 60mph anyway.  Sad

George
They're not handing trophies out today
 
ph-kca
Posts: 121
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 7:36 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:50 am

In The Netherlands the common speed limits are 120 km/h and 100 km/h. Although sometimes I would like higher speeds to be legal, I don't think it's really necessary as The Netherlands are a small country. Because of this size the distance between two places in The Netherlands is no greater than some 400 km. Germany is many times larger and thus the distances are much larger. As I come in Germany almost yearly with vacation or just to shop, I think it's a blessing that at many Autobahns you may drive as fast as you want. Fi. the Autobahns around Köln/Cologne, Düsseldorf in the Ruhrgebiet are partly speed-limited and also busy, so it's safer to drive slower. But outside the Ruhrgebiet and large cities there is less traffic. Fi. between Nürnberg/ Neurenberg and München/Munich there's mostly less traffic so there you can drive faster. I usually drive some 150 km/h.
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:05 am

I've once read that the average speed on the Autobahn is about 150km/h, but that includes trucks, caravans etc. aswell, which are allowed to do only 110km/h.

I regularly travel at the speeds around 160km/h, when the traffic allows it (Aloges, somehow we seem to know the same Fiat Punto driver  Smile/happy/getting dizzy) even more, and I feel comfortable. But it's a matter of getting used to it I think, if you're used to do a maximum of 110, directly starting with 200km/h once you pass the border probably isn't the best idea.

As Aloges pointed out, there are always some drawbacks, like the expensive driver's licenses. On the other hand, after I finished my driving exercise's, I immediately felt comfortable and wasn't nervous after all.

 
yka
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 3:00 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:51 am

Yep, gotta love germany for their autobahns. Its funny that owners euro cars with their "four banger" engines as americans dismisingly call them often drive faster than their american counterparts with their V8 monsters. Can't wait until im back in europe this summer.


(end of speed limit sign, a common sight on autobahns)
 
jetsetter
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 10:36 pm

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:02 pm

Yeah, it's much different here in the States. There are places here in FL (alligator alley, and some other open roads) where the speed limit is 70 mph. On most interstates, it's been raised to 65 throughout the U.S.

However, more often than not, drivers either are not familiar with the "stay to the right" rule, or they purposely ignore it to infuriate drivers who want to go faster. I can't count how many times I've been in the left lane behind someone who deliberately slows down because they're "doing the speed limit," or just to annoy the driver who wants to go faster. This causes the driver to pass on the right, causing many accidents.

Here in South Florida it's awful. There's an HOV (High Occupancy Vehicle) lane for vehicles with two or more persons that is only in effect for those hours. Unfortunately, unlike the DC area, it's the left hand lane and it's not set apart by any barriers, so people think it's an HOV lane all day! It causes a huge number of accidents.

I've been to Europe many times, but have never really driven there on the highways. Do you have similar attitudes/phenomenon? If not, why is it so different here?
 
JETPILOT
Posts: 3094
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:40 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:12 pm

I went to Germany recently, and got a rental car. I headed out of the Frankfurt airport and got on what I thought to be the Autobahn. Well when I got on I was ticked off.... the road was only 2 lanes. There was no traffic. I decided I had better get off at the next exit and begin to asses my situation and how the hell I was going to find the Autobahn.

Well it wasn't 2 seconds later a Mercedes that was well into the tripple digits passed me.... I said " I guess Im on the AutoBahn". I had expected a much wider road with shoulders...... not the case.

If your an auto enthusiast like I am... the Autobahn is a must do item before you die.

Until my trip to Germany I believed Mercedes to be the wifes car of well to do families. Thats all that drives them in my area. They are for sure to be seen doing 50 in a 55 limit in the left lane.

Well.... thats one hell of a waste of a Benz.

JET
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:14 pm

For instance in Portugal, the speed limit is 120 km/h, and anything 30 km/h over the limit is seen as a minor infraction.

What a coincidence. I know people who live there and they tell me the highways are deathtraps with lots of accidents.

I got the following information from http://www.frommers.com/destinations/portugal/0235030865.html


Continental driving rules apply in Portugal, and international road symbols and signs are used. Wearing safety belts is compulsory. Speed limits are 90 kilometers per hour (55 mph) on main roads, and 60 kmph (37 mph) in heavily populated or built-up sections. On the limited number of express highways, the speed limit is 120 kmph (75 mph).

There are few superhighways in Portugal, and they're often interrupted by lengthy stretches of traffic-clogged single-lane thoroughfares. The roads, however, provide access to hard-to-reach gems and undiscovered villages.


 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:19 pm

And this just in from http://travel.state.gov/portugal.html:

Portugal has one of the highest rates of automobile accidents and fatalities in Europe. Portuguese driving habits, high speeds, and poorly marked roads pose special hazards. In continental Portugal, fines for traffic violations are substantial and usually must be paid on the spot. Taxis are a reliable means of transportation, though travelers should pay attention to discrepancies between the meter fare and the amount requested by the driver. Buses are reliable and inexpensive.

In the Azores, driving can be treacherous due to narrow cobblestone streets, blind curves, unprotected embankments, herds of cows in the countryside roads, and the high speeds of other drivers. In contrast to the continent, traffic violations are registered by radar and later forwarded to the offender via the postal service - payments are not made on the spot. Taxis do not have meters. The fare consists of a base fee plus a posted rate per kilometer traveled. Public buses are inexpensive. Bus services begin at 7:00 a.m. and generally operate until 8:00 p.m. depending on the destination.
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:22 pm

Airplay, I'm aware of the statistics regarding Portugal. Many factors, such as the ones you listed are responsible for the high death rates. However, the highways have low death rates. It's on secondary roads where you get all the problems. This goes to show you that proper highways can be safe, even at high speeds.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15698
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:29 pm

driving can be treacherous due to...herds of cows in the countryside roads

hehehe.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Guest

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:45 pm

YYz717,

Ever seen Koala, Kangaroo, Womabat or Moniter lizard roadkill?

Kanga's are the biggest threat to drivers in Australia, you can be tooling down an arterial road through the bush at 120km/h and a big eastern grey kanga jumps into your lane from the side of the road and your in trouble!

The damage they do! Most regular country drivers have roo bars installed on the front of their vehicles. Certainly the interstate busses and trucks have them.

mb

clowns=skid marks
 
Hepkat
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 8:22 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 1:07 pm

I've been to Europe many times, but have never really driven there on the highways. Do you have similar attitudes/phenomenon? If not, why is it so different here?

In this part of Europe, Germany/Austria, drivers are disciplined almost to a fault. They keep religiously to the right at ALL TIMES, overtake only on the left and as a rule, driver VERY fast. My five years of living here suggests that the high driving speed mandates this level of discipline. Without it, there would be massive fatalities since people here are accustomed to driving between 130 to 220+ kph (80 to 130+ mph). In addition, it takes much more study and money to obtain a drivers license. You MUST attend a driving school and study for weeks (you have to know a wealth of details, everything from the inner workings of the car to mastering all the winter driving techniques), all of which cost a hefty $1500-2000.

I've been in NY over the past few days and never really realized how slow we drive in the U.S. I guess speed is relative. Before moving to Europe I used to think 65mph was a big deal but now it seems so slow and inefficient. And I have noticed that we don't seem to be anywhere as good or as disciplined drivers as the Europeans. Driving upstate last weekend, I saw people parked permanently in the left lane forcing others to pass them on the right. This is very dangerous, but why hadn't I noticed it before?

I went to Germany recently, and got a rental car. I headed out of the Frankfurt airport and got on what I thought to be the Autobahn. Well when I got on I was ticked off.... the road was only 2 lanes. There was no traffic. I decided I had better get off at the next exit and begin to asses my situation and how the hell I was going to find the Autobahn.

Well it wasn't 2 seconds later a Mercedes that was well into the tripple digits passed me.... I said " I guess Im on the AutoBahn". I had expected a much wider road with shoulders...... not the case.


I also had the same problem when I first came to Europe. I drove everywhere looking for the "Autobahn", not knowing that I was already driving on it. Perhaps this is a good time to inform all Americans, "Autobahn" is simply German for highway. It's not a special highway, just your ordinary stretch of road connecting cities where you're allowed to drive at high speeds. Most of the German Autobahn has no speed limit, however it's a common misconception that you're allowed to drive as fast as you like. As far as I know, you're allowed to drive as fast as you and the vehicle SAFELY can, therefore you can get into a lot of trouble if you cause an accident through your own negligence. In Austria, the speed limit's 130kph (80mph), but everyone usually does between 140-170kph (83-105mph). My comfort level is about 150-160kph (90-100mph).

Until my trip to Germany I believed Mercedes to be the wifes car of well to do families. Thats all that drives them in my area. They are for sure to be seen doing 50 in a 55 limit in the left lane.

Makes you wonder why Americans spend so much money buying those expensive BMWs and Audis when they're only allowed to drive them at 65mph. These machines where built to cheat death itself on the highway, their capabilities are wasted on American highways.
 
MSY-MSP
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 4:18 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 1:57 pm

I have to admit that I really love driving on the Autobahn. I have driven on the Autobahn a number of times. A couple of times with my own car, and a couple of times with rentals or friends cars. Just a couple of stories.

In 1997, I had my new car, a Volvo S70-T5, and had just crossed into Germany from Denmark, and was doing 120km/h (still in the break in period, and yes I was in the RIGHT lane). Suddenly out of nowhere, came a Porsche 911 doing well over 240km/h. My friend in the pax seat, who had never been to Germany, and only driven on Canadian, US highways, had his jaw in his lap. He didn't believe that you could actually drive that fast on a road. Later after the break in period and driving from the Austrian border to Munich Had the car well over 220km/h (130MPH), and it was a blast.

Another trip was in an A class. It was what an American would consider underpowered, but it could move on the road. Had no trouble going 160km/h or more. Made many of the American cars here seem worthless, and not very high performance.

The main thing that I noticed is that Europeans and Germans actually understand and adhere to the concept of Lane Control. Keep right except to pass. (We actually have signs posted to remind people of this) If Americans were able to adhere to this then we might be able to have unlimited speed. Of course Montana had that for a while, and it was fun, while it lasted. Got one of my only tickets during this time. 105 MPH Ticket, cost $20. To bad it is gone now.

MSY-MSP

 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 2:04 pm

Problem with lane discipline in North America is the result of not only poor driver training, which should cement this concept into student's brains, but also law enforcement. As long as police forces only give tickets to speeders and nothing else, nothing will change. It's really a shame that somebody going 20 over the limit is given a ticket, while so many other, more dangerous acts are completely let off. Thing is, catching speeders is easy. Radars don't lie, and it's a black and white thing, you're either speeding or you're not. With other offenses, it's not as easy to convict.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
mhsieh
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2000 2:28 pm

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 2:41 pm

Among the 3 German brands, M-B, Audi, BMW, which one is most highly regaded in Germany?
Are SUVs popular in Germany?
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 2:41 pm

In the Netherlands, driving (and especially on the highways) is a constant battle.
Most drivers are very agressive and won't let anyone change lanes ending up in front of themselves.
This is a major cause of traffic jams, as cars stack up on the entry lanes and try to force themselves into traffic.
Add the people going 70kmh in the left lane where 120 is allowed (and many people will do 130-140+) and you have the making of traffic jams and accidents.

Driving in Germany is always a relief.
I wish I were flying
 
eg777er
Posts: 1782
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2000 11:11 pm

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 2:57 pm

Ahhh....Portugeuse roads.

When we lived there, my father had to drive to and from work in Lisbon from home in Cascais along the "Marginal", a 4-lane road along the coast with no central reservation! At the time it was the most dangerous road in Europe. Is it still?

But now there are "superhighways" all over the place (dunno where the State Dept. got their info from), including the brand new A2 that I drove down from Lisbon to Faro in February - only took 2 1/2 hours and was deserted for most of it. Kept up a good 160kmh in our little rental car Seat!
 
sccutler
Posts: 5603
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 4:18 pm

I

Can't drive

Fifty-five

(so went the song).

I can't drive 65 or 70, either, but find that under appropriate traffic conditions, and with the use of my Valentine One multiband radar detector, I can and do usually average 85-100 mph intercity.

Sadly enough, road congestion, coupled with the moronic attitude of many drivers (the ones who believe that it is their duty to slow everyone down, regardless of whose lives they endanger in the process), is making the well-engineered Interstate Defense Highways nearly useless for high-speed, long-distance travel.

These days, I usually average about 130. But that's in a PA28-181, and the traffic's much less of a problem.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 4:27 pm

The closest that I have ever come to getting killed in a MVA was on the Autobahn.

We had a Duece and Half on a hill outside Stuttgart cranked up to 60MPH (Max permitted 45) when the hood came up. I was the one that had to go out and risk getting hit by a car clamping it back down.

I did like the fact they had electronic signs around the city that they could use to modify the max speed for driving and traffic conditions.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
mls515
Posts: 2955
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 4:45 pm



My fellow American drivers just SUCK! I actually have to pass other cars on two-lane highways in the 45 foot monsters I've been driving around lately. I set the cruise at 5 mph over the limit (hey, we'll get there), but my understanding is that the coaches in Europe are governed at 100 kph (62 mph). Is that true? Shame if it is.

The coaches over there also have this paper disk that keeps track of your speed and operating time. Thank goodness we have no requirement like that, although my boss can dig into the computer and find that out if he wants to.
 
VonRichtofen
Posts: 4270
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:10 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 4:47 pm

"I wish speed limits would increase in North America"

Are you sure? Imagine all the soccer moms at the wheel of a Yukon or Excursion doing 140..... scary thought.
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 4:48 pm

The only part of 'der Autobahn' I don't like, is the parts that were made in former Eastern Germany and haven't been repaired. At the worst parts, it sounds like the shock absorber is going to fall apart.

Can't wait for next year though, where I'll probably get to drive a good stretch down through Germany when me & my family are going on a ski holiday. I'll probably opt for the "night shift", since I prefer driving at night.

Oh, and what will I be listening to? Kraftwerk - Autobahn Big grin
 
Dufo
Posts: 797
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:41 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 5:17 pm

Fun fun fun on the Autobahn indeed, CPH-R  Smile
Oh yes.. I remember one ride with a Lotus Omega as a passenger, doing 280km/h (150km/h above the local limit). But I still prefer wheezing at 200mph
500ft above ground.

Regards,
Jernej
I seriously think I just creamed my pants without any influence from any outside variables.
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3309
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 7:32 pm

my understanding is that the coaches in Europe are governed at 100 kph (62 mph). Is that true? Shame if it is.

The coaches over there also have this paper disk that keeps track of your speed and operating time



Your right Mls515, coaches are limited to 100kph (+/- 60mph) and can not drive faster even if they wanted to. In some countries coaches are not even allowed to go that fast. In Holland for instance they may not go faster than 80kph (+/- 55mph), even on the motorways.
THis does not only count for coaches, lorries are limited to 100kph as well, and may not go faster than 80kph in Holland. In Holland, during the daytime lorries and coaches are not even allowed to overtake on the inside lane. Only after 19:00 are lorries and coaches allowed to overtake!

The paper disk is to prevent drivers from working to long. A lot of deaths are caused by people dozing off behind the steering wheel. When a lorry or coach driver dozes of, the consequences tend to be very large, moreover these drivers spend long times on the road anyway. To prevent such accidents from happening the Tachograph (spelling?) was introduced.

I have heard that in France it is not even allowed to drive lorries on Sundays due to the strict labour unions. Is this true? What happens if a foreign drivers ends up in France on a sunday. Are the foreign drivers excempt from this or not?
Attamottamotta!
 
Andreas
Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 8:08 pm

Jwenting: Driving in Germany is always a relief.

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That coming from a Dutch, I have to tell you: But not for the Germans. (Sorry that's a prejudice, I know!! Big grin Big grin Big grin)

MSIEH: Among the 3 German brands, M-B, Audi, BMW, which one is most highly regaded in Germany?
Are SUVs popular in Germany?

SUV: Not really, as these are gas guzzlers of the highest order. Please remember, gas is bloody expensive in Germany as compared to the USA.

Not the image question...hard to say. 20 years ago it would have been as follows:
Drivers under 40 years of age: 1. BMW a very close 2. MB 3. Audi
above 40 1. MB 2. BMW 3. Audi

in the meantime Audi made incredible progress, cars are well-designed, fast, incredibly good Diesel technology (for those of you who still believe Diesel is for trucks only: Come on over here with your muscle cars and I take you on in one of the Diesel machines of MB or BMW or Audi...be prepared for a surprise, you'll feel like standing in a parking zone!!), which is getting more and more popular because of the low consumption.

In general I believe you named the three best-imaged car brands in Germany, they should be pretty close together now.
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 8:49 pm

Actually, the Autobahnen (-s? How do you handle Plural with Foreign words in English? Anyway..) are a very safe place to travel, the fatality rates in Germany are quite low compared with the amount of traffic we get, and still the accident rates on Autobahnen are lower than on Bundesstraßen and Landstraßen (country roads).

"Among the 3 German brands, M-B, Audi, BMW, which one is most highly regaded in Germany?
Are SUVs popular in Germany?"


SUVs are not really popular, some people drive A X5 or a ML-Class, and some Japanese SUVs. G-Class etc. are only used by people who really need them, Farmers, foresters etc.

Mercedes is still the most highly-regarded, Audi and BMW follow as close-ups on almost the same level. Audi's image has vastly improved over the last 10 years, particularly through new technologies and very-well done marketing campaigns (Almost anybody here connects the brand Audi with the slogans "Vorsprung durch Technik" and "Technik, die begeistert", and the connection Audi = modern technology is cemented in the brains of the people.

CPH-R, I agree, the old east-German Autobahnen were really screwed, like anything else there. But if you get a new-built Autobahn in East Germany, they almost certainly have the new type of concrete which is used on every new Autobahn now, and this concrete is very quiet. But it has cost and will continue to cost hundreds of billions until the former GDR is on the level of West Germany.

I think in Germany the limit for trucks and coaches is 110km/h, they are limited to this speed and can't go faster even if the driver wanted to. Soon trucks will have to pay a fee for using the Autobahn, because we get loads of transit traffic and maintaining the streets is very expensive.
 
rabenschlag
Posts: 1012
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 10:28 pm

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 8:54 pm

for all of you who are afraid of old ladies in fast cars:

my mom is used to drive big BMW's since she was 40 or so, and she was never afraid to test their limits. she used to drive me to school and i was always pushing her to travel at vmax.

now that she is close to her 70's, she still drives a BMW 750i. and guess what, she does not hestitat to go 200 kmh if there's not too much trafic.

i think she still has a lot of skill due to her extensive practice. sometimes, however, i am rather scared when i imagine my little old mother burning down the road @ 220 flashing the lights...

cheers, r.







 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 8:58 pm

I was always told flashing the lights in Germany was forbidden?

It's a bit scary though when you drive down the left lane at 200+ and a truck pulls out ahead to pass another one.. My best advice is to allways look twice in the mirror before pulling into the left lane.

Staffan
 
Hepkat
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 8:22 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:05 pm

I have heard that in France it is not even allowed to drive lorries on Sundays due to the strict labour unions. Is this true? What happens if a foreign drivers ends up in France on a sunday. Are the foreign drivers excempt from this or not?

I'm not sure about France, but in Austria they have similar laws that ban trucks from the highways on Sundays and public holidays. Makes driving much more enjoyable I think.
 
Hepkat
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 8:22 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:09 pm

now that she is close to her 70's, she still drives a BMW 750i. and guess what, she does not hestitat to go 200 kmh if there's not too much trafic.

Believe me, I know what you're talking about Rabehschlag! My first time on the Autobahn, I was really timid and unsure of myself, so I tried to keep to a modest 150/160kph. I've never been passed by so many speeding grannies in my life! Did I mention that it was in the dead of winter with icy road conditions and lots of fog?
 
Andreas
Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:16 pm

Flashing one's headlights is forbidden in Germany except in conditions of upcoming danger! The wish to overtake is none such condition *ggg*

The same law applies to Germany from Friday night until Sunday night (don't know when exactly), but Sunday morning on a German Autobahn, nice warm and dry weather and then *GGGGGGGGG*
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:21 pm

On Sundays, only those lorries carrying perishable goods are allowed to use the Autobahn. It makes driving a lot more pleasant and gives you a safer feeling.

The only thing I really hate about our highways are the loads and loads of construction sites - fine, they're necessary and they're there for the drivers. But I really don't like those two meter wide lanes you often have to drive in when one side of the highway is being worked on. It's like this

| opposite lane no. 1 | o.l. no. 2 |barrier| your lane, 2 mtrs | lane w/ norm width & big lorry you're passing |

And of course, you're sandwiched in at 70 km/h or more. It does NOT feel good.

EDIT: OK, "sandwiched"... Never mind.



[Edited 2003-04-09 14:30:10]
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
rabenschlag
Posts: 1012
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 10:28 pm

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:24 pm

i can only speak for myself but i cannot imagine *any* circumstances under which i would enjoy being sandwiched
 
Guest

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:37 pm

Mx5,

I'd say the wombat was the biggest threat on the road in Aus .. they're like a hairy rock when you hit them .. and a low slung car v wombat is a disaster. So I must add is a roo on the roof of your convertable.

My brother had a roo hit the side of his car in the wee hours of the morning after an overnight Sydney-Brizzy run, lost all the panels on the side of his car and a good set of underwear and the roo shook itself down and hopped off

 Wow!




ADG
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:46 pm

What a nice thread that spang up out of nowhere last n
<script src="http://www.burstnet.com/cgi-bin/ads/ad2130a.cgi/sz=0X0MN/3833/RETURN-CODE/JS/"></script>
ight! I guess I´ll spend the next minute cutting & pasting in order to make some smart-ass comments Big grin

>>>Wanna know what I spent on my driver's license? Some 1700 €, all in all...

Whoa, how often did you flunk?  Wink/being sarcastic just kidding, but that seems quite high. I paid that amount in D-Mark, but then, that was some years ago...

>>>US Forces personnel based in Germany had twice or three times the incidence of accidents... - I would personally recommend 120 to 140 km/h as "standard" speed (about 75 to 90 mph) if you are a little lady going to church service in Mannheim...

Funny that you mention US Forces in Mannheim. It´s got better in the past years. But like five years ago or so, every second Autobahn accident around Mannheim was caused by an American.

>>>The flashing headlights! It's actually allowed to do that! IN GERMANY!

Then how come I was pleading a case, yesterday, in which someone did that and was tried for coercion (Noetigung)? Big grin (He was acquitted, unfortunately, because the victim couldn´t positively identify him any more.)

>>>I've once read that the average speed on the Autobahn is about 150km/h, but that includes trucks, caravans etc. aswell, which are allowed to do only 110km/h.

No offence intended, but I highly doubt that, Racko. The percentage of drivers who ever pass 150 km/h is in the (high) single digit range. Also, I usually drive as fast as legally possible, and it´s basically impossible to get an average of over 130 km/h over medium to long distances.
I did the same route (350 km) on two consecutive Saturdays (weather and traffic conditions comparable), once with a Smart (max speed 130 km/h) and once with a real car (max speed 240 km/h) - the Smart was 12 minutes slower. From a rational point of view, speeding is nonsense (that´s why few people do it) - but fun as hell, though.

>>>Well when I got on I was ticked off.... the road was only 2 lanes. There was no traffic. I decided I had better get off at the next exit and begin to asses my situation and how the hell I was going to find the Autobahn.

A German Autobahn needs to have:
- two lanes (or more) for each direction
- a permanent separation (bauliche Trennung) between the two directions - normally a railing or a wall.

>>>The only part of 'der Autobahn' I don't like, is the parts that were made in former Eastern Germany and haven't been repaired. At the worst parts, it sounds like the shock absorber is going to fall apart.

But there are hardly any unrepaired stretches left. Nowadays, the Autobahnen in Eastern Germany are generally better than the Western ones, simply because they´re younger.

>>>It's a bit scary though when you drive down the left lane at 200+ and a truck pulls out ahead to pass another one.. My best advice is to allways look twice in the mirror before pulling into the left lane.

That´s why I ALWAYS have the headlights on when driving on the Autobahn. And it works, people tend to have more, um, for lack of a better word: respect. Especially if the light is bluish Big grin

>>>But I really don't like those two meter wide lanes you often have to drive in when one side of the highway is being worked on.

Ya, I always keep in the right lane in these situations. I lose maybe two minutes, but it´s much less stressfull to drive.


And, finally, do you know why the Greens did not fullfill their promise of introducing a general speed limit, once they came to power in 1998? The fuel savings (and hence the lost taxes) would have been enormous. Gotta loves those politicians and their flexible consciences...

Daniel Smile
 
erj190
Posts: 371
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 11:12 pm

€ 1700, for a driving license ?

In Portugal it will cost something around € 650, and I think that is expensive.
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: The Autobahn

Wed Apr 09, 2003 11:29 pm

Daniel,
I remember driving from Salzburg towards Munich, and at one point it just became insane. It went on for like 5 minutes, before the bumps ended. I seriously hope that they were rebuilding ath strech Big grin
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: The Autobahn

Thu Apr 10, 2003 1:03 am

I have always wondered why Germany doesn't impose a fee for foreign cars that use the autobahn.
The French system with toll booths is a drag, but a sticker similar to the Swiss system is better. The french motorways are usually a much higher standard the German ones, so if all foreigners who drive through had to pay, say 30-40 Euros or something, the german govt could collect loads of money every year to put into restoring the roads.
Germany has really become a country that many people from the nordic countries drive through on their way to central and southern Europe, so why not profit from it?

Staffan
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: The Autobahn

Thu Apr 10, 2003 1:22 am

Because the EU prohibits to charge only foreign cars, and a general fee also for German drivers isn't politically possible in Germany.
 
covert
Posts: 1507
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 1:02 am

RE: The Autobahn

Thu Apr 10, 2003 3:44 am

Goodness, why does America have to be like that?

Broke suburban police departments with 2 cars and six officers on the force that have nothing better to do than sit on the boundary of their one square mile township or borough and pull you over for stupid stuff, women and elderly drivers that are afraid of internal combustion, drunk drivers that take up two lanes.

I don't know of any vehicle that can only go 65mph but that is where most of our speed limits are... Maybe Michigan and a couple of other states upped the limit to 75.... What really sucks is the absolute speed limit laws here in states like Pennsylvania where a trooper can pull you over at 66 mph regardless of good weather or straight highway....


My drivers test was easy as hell, made me parallel park and took me around the block. cost me like 40 bucks and that includes the motorcycle permit too. Whew! I sure could not live in Germany, love to plow that Autobahn but a little too expensive for me....

Would I be able to keep my Pennsylvania license over there?
none
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: The Autobahn

Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:03 am

Yeah - it should be valid in most countries. Though I'd advise you to keep the foot light on the pedal in the beginning.

.. oh, and am I the only person who loves driving through the Kassel Hills/Mountains?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ual777 and 13 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos