UTA_flyinghigh
Topic Author
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

Sick And Tired Of Breathing Diesel Fumes

Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:27 am

This is for the moronic French, German, Italian and Spanish governments (any others) who put much more taxes on unleaded gasoline than on dirty diesel, which results in Paris looking (and smelling like Mexico City) and small cars with diesel engines making more noise than a dull-sized gas pickup.
Fact : Diesel is more expensive to produce -one barrel of crude yields five barrels of unleaded versus four of diesel.
It smells bad, produces soot and is said to cause cancer.
What do you think ?
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Sick And Tired Of Breathing Diesel Fumes

Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:57 am

I always heard that diesel is less expensive to produce. Modern diesels have come a long way in the last decade. They are much cleaner, and of course more efficient. They typically have a 30-40% improvement in fuel economy, with a similar improvement in carbon dioxide emissions compared to gasoline engines. When you take into account the lower maintenance and greater longevity of diesel engines, they are highly regarded as being an environmentally friendly solution. Remember also, hybrids, being touted as super environmentally friendly cars, have massive batteries. These don't last forever, and their production and disposal create major environmental concerns of their own.

The diesel fumes you smell in European cities is from the old diesel engines still running around that admittedly are smelly and loud. You cannot say the same about modern diesels. Besides, new particulate traps used in Peugeot and Mercedes-Benz diesels are able to trap something like 99% of these particulates, filtering them so they are not emitted into the air we breathe. These traps are very new, allow diesels to meet very stringent requirements being imposed by both European and American emissions regulations, and will likely be used by all other diesel engine manufacturers in the near future.

The big drawback to implementing these technologies in the United States at this point is the high sulphur content in diesel fuel compared to Europe. Once ULSD is introduced in 2006, that will also change.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
mls515
Posts: 2955
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Sick And Tired Of Breathing Diesel Fumes

Thu Apr 10, 2003 7:03 am



Get used to it. How do you think Europe is meeting the Kyoto Protocol? They're trading greenhouse gas emissions from gasoline fuel for diesel fuel emissions! Very simple.

But like Capt. Gomes said, cleaner diesel is on the way.
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6562
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Sick And Tired Of Breathing Diesel Fumes

Thu Apr 10, 2003 8:13 am

30-40% improvement in fuel economy, with a similar improvement in carbon dioxide emissions compared to gasoline engines.

Part of the math is that one gallon of diesel fuel contains roughly 20% more carbon. It is also some 15-17% heavier.

The low sulphur diesel fuel used today is indeed more expensive to produce than 95 octane gas - per gallon, but not per pound.

I know because my living is producing and selling oil products.

The discussion whether we should have so and so much diesel vs gas is hypotetical because from crude oil comes roughly so and so much gas and diesel. There isn't much we can do about it, and when we do the little we can, then it is very energy comsuming (= Kyoto unfriendly).

If we imagine that we all drive diesel cars, then it would be absolutely mandatory to invent the gas powered car. How else should we get rid of the gas?

I think that we can all agree that it would be best to burn diesel on the countryside, and gas in the towns. That type of hybride car hasn't been invented yet. Anyway I think that downtown Paris the smell of half burned chestnuts is worse than the diesel smell.

Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Topic Author
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: Sick And Tired Of Breathing Diesel Fumes

Thu Apr 10, 2003 4:33 pm

Try this :
Take two similar vehicles, both gasoline and diesel, ex, a Clio dCi and a 16V, start them up and put two handkerchiefs in front of the exhausts. Guess which one will be pitch black in a couple of minutes ?
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
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sebolino
Posts: 3511
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 11:26 pm

RE: Sick And Tired Of Breathing Diesel Fumes

Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:56 pm

Particles filters exist and are used on Peugeor 607 and Peugeot 307 HDI 110.
The result is a reduction by 99% of the particle emissions (which are believed to give cancers).

Particle filters should be mandatory on every car and truck by law, right now !!!!
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Sick And Tired Of Breathing Diesel Fumes

Fri Apr 11, 2003 12:44 am

Sebolino, this technology is new, so let it filter down normally. It will take a couple of years to make it widespread, but it will happen. It's how manufacturers are meeting the strict emissions laws. So hold your horses, it will happen. In the mean time, go live in a filtered bubble.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster

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