cfalk
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Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:30 am

The U.S. has really dropped the ball on this looting issue. If the order had been given early on to shoot any looters, the U.S. standing would be much higher. Even the other Arab countries would not have said a word against it - it is standard procedure in times like this, everywhere in the world, for centuries. 2 or 3 looters get themselves shot, and everybody else quickly calms down.

Now that the U.S. forces have allowed this to go on for 2 whole days, the Iraqis have probably lost all respect for the Americans, both looters and non-looters alike. Respect for the U.S. by other Arabs (however grudgingly given) has also been damaged by the refusal to stomp out this looting early.

That said, I am shocked at the incredible behaviour of the Iraqis. Looting a hospital, and whatever they could not carry off, they burned! Their own f&cking hospital!!! They need it!



Charles

The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
KROC
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:45 am

I agree, BUT, what to you think the outcry would be if the Soldiers started popping looters? I can't even imagine the backlash.....
 
avt007
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:45 am

"the Iraqis have probably lost all respect for the Americans, both looters and non-looters alike."
The Iraqis ARE the looters. This doesn't surprise me one bit. My experience with Arabs is that many of them will steal anything that isn't bolted down. Watch the news, many are taking equipment from hospitals, when they haven't the slightest clue what it is. But maybe they can trade or sell it to someone else. Now, I'm against generalizations, but theft is FAR more common, and accepted as part of daily life by the Arabs I have known.
As for the Americans, they are fighting a war! They can't stop and turn into policemen all of a sudden. Their own security, and the military aims they have set out to accomplish are far more important than stopping the Iraqis from stealing from one another.
 
clipperhawaii
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:45 am

So the Iraqi's have poor behavior and it's the Americans fault?

I can see it now, Al-Jazeera showing pictures of U.S. soldiers killing Iraqi civilians as they carry a T.V.


"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
777236ER
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:47 am

This doesn't surprise me one bit. My experience with Arabs is that many of them will steal anything that isn't bolted down

Yeah, just like stupid black people. But hey, they make good athletes, the monkey-boys.

 Insane
Your bone's got a little machine
 
dc-10 levo
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:51 am

 
avt007
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:56 am

It is important to note that they were not policing looters, but rather the looters fired on the British first. As the article states, the Americans have no plans to police the Iraqis.
 
cfalk
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:59 am

KROC,

Like I said, I don't think they would complain. Looting is commonplace whenever there is a disruption of civil services, and an order to shoot looters is the only time-proven way to stop it.

At first, the looting was probably limited, but as soon as they saw that the Americans were not interested in doing anything about it, they "went to town". Had themessage been conveyed early that looting would not be tolerated, the damage would have been very limited, and nobody would have complained.

Avt007,

Only some Iraqis are the looters. According to reports, most people are staying in their homes to make sure that they don't get looted.

Clipper,

The looters have reached depths of bad behaviour rarely before reached. I mean, looting and burning their own hospitals and schools, which they will need! So most of the blame goes to them, but the Americans have not acted appropriately, as required of them by the Geneva Conventions, to keep order and prevent pillage.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
avt007
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 3:07 am

So how many troops are going to be needed to patrol and police a city of 5 million people? And how many of those would have to speak Arabic? It is not a practical consideration right now, there is still fighting going on.
 
goingboeing
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 3:35 am

Perhaps we can get some patriots in a pickup truck to douse water on them to the tune of "I'm proud to be an American". That's what we do to the "lawbreakers" stateside.
 
atenara
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:30 am


Let them loot the city! kill saddam! kill uday! kill qusay! kill everyone!
ordinary impovorished iraqis should thresher this moment forever!
 
Krushny
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 7:45 am

I have to say that I agree to some extent with Charles' post.
The Saddam regime was tyrannical and brutal but maintained order in Iraq; now it has collapsed absolutely and the country is under total anarchy, there is no police, nothing to prevent widespread looting, vendettas, etc.

And apart than criticising the incredible behaviour of the Iraqis, think for moment what would happen if the NYPD, National Guard and all the order corps disappeared suddenly, like it just happened in Bagdad, don't you think you would see the same stuff in Wall Street and Park Avenue???
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 9:46 am

"And apart than criticising the incredible behaviour of the Iraqis, think for moment what would happen if the NYPD, National Guard and all the order corps disappeared suddenly, like it just happened in Bagdad, don't you think you would see the same stuff in Wall Street and Park Avenue???"

They have:

Los Angeles riots and looting after the Rodney King trial.

And the looting in Florida after hurricane Andrew.

About the topic:

I heard on CNN that the Pentagon was asking other countries to donate police forces to restore order in Iraq. Do they mean other Arab countries or anybody? If it's the latter I think Canada should step in, we're good at peacekeeping.

Kris
YYC
 
avt007
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 9:48 am

Chretien has mentioned the possibility of the RCMP going to Iraq.
 
racko
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 9:55 am

The German police has helping training and equipping post-war polices in Macedonia, Kosovo and Afghanistan, and donated them old equipment. I think if we can help the Iraqi people now, we should take action. On the other hand, Bush probably doesn't want us there.
 
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STT757
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 10:24 am

"Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!"

Because the people doing the looting are not all criminals, the looting started at Government buildings and houses belonging to BATH party members.

The people doing the looting are average Iraqi civilians who started looting to express their relief and joy of their Freedom and their anger and frustration of the at the Former regime.

However the looting has now reached the point where it has become criminal, so the US should address this as soon as possible.

Problem is that the US is still getting resistance from pockets of fighters most of which are outsiders (Syrians, Palestinians, Pakistanis) that have no place to go, so they are fighting to the death.

When the British took Basra there was wide spread looting, it took a couple days but they got it under control.

People it's only been two DAYS!

Give them a chance!

If the looting is still rampant by Tuesday or Wednesday then they are neglicting them, but right now the most important thing is to wipe out the last of the fighters.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
prosa
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 10:44 am

I would imagine that most U.S. soldiers lack the police-style training needed to stop civil disobedieance. Sure, they could open fire on the looters, but that would be a public relations disaster.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Guest

RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 1:53 pm

Rather than arguing about what is going on, why not discuss why this wasn't planned for. After all, they knew it was going to happen.

Or they should have.



ADG
 
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yyz717
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 1:59 pm

It's not the US military's role to stop looting per se.

Although looting of course does not reflect well on Iraqi societal values, given the sheer scale of it.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
L-188
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:03 pm

PROSA.

Generally speaking only the National Guard gets any sort of riot training. This is because of their use by the governers of various states as an emergency augmentation to the police.

As far as shooting the looters.

Al Jazeera and the other reporters of fiction would have a field day bashing the US if that where to start happening.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
avt007
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:41 pm

It`s ironic that many people didn`t care if the Iraqis killed each other, but looting? That's just going too far!  Big grin
 
G-KIRAN
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 3:45 pm

I have finished watching both CNN and BBC World and I have never seen such biased reporting.They kept on going for the need of security unitl the cows and they blaming the coalition for it.They never mentioned that there are still pockets of resistence and a threat from suicide bombers.Also they are building it up to seem that the coalition has lost total control of the stituation-and its only been about 3 days since Baghdad has fallen!All they seem to do is build the coalition up(before the war),bring it down(when they ran into stiff resistance),bring them up again when Baghdad fell and now bring them down because impoverished Iraqis are looting.

Just a few minutes ago,BBC World conducted an interview with an MP from the UK Parlimentary Human Rights Comittee, an Oxfam Spokesman,a US CENTCOM spokeman and a UN aid spokeswoman(she was french,more on that later). So anyway the presenter asked the UN person about what they aimed to do in terms of aid when security was restored and instead what did she do?She started going on about how bad the security was without even mentioneing the aid.The the presenter had to stop her and told her to stop going on about the politics involved and just answer the question,but she still went on about how bad the security was.

Same with the oxfam person.When asked what oxfam was going to do,he went on like the UN aid rep about how bad the security is and even said this and I quote "Its harder to distribute water than to liberate Iraq".

Thankfully the UK MP gave a decent response.She said that the coalition still needed time given the current situation and that the Iraqi people whom after years of surpression would take their fustration out on government buildings,but she said the looting of hospitals was worrying though.Finally she was asked about who would pay for the Iraqi reconstruction and she said the usual about the IMF and the World Bank etc...and I quote again.."It woud be nice if France,Russia and Germany could cancel the debt that Iraq owes them.
 
Alessandro
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:10 pm

Sure looters been shot by allied troops, mostly for driving like crazy. The allies
first priority is safety, property of Iraq isn´t important at all.
Still a war going on, the show down in Tikrit will be the end of the Tikrit mobsters era...
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
gr325
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sun Apr 13, 2003 4:36 am

I know it is not right wha they do. But that one guy who nikked a bus and towed a speedboat behind it without a trailer made me piss myself.
"You should have gone to specsavers"
 
david b.
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sun Apr 13, 2003 4:59 am

The Iraqis ARE the looters. This doesn't surprise me one bit. My experience with Arabs is that many of them will steal anything that isn't bolted down. Watch the news, many are taking equipment from hospitals, when they haven't the slightest clue what it is. But maybe they can trade or sell it to someone else. Now, I'm against generalizations, but theft is FAR more common, and accepted as part of daily life by the Arabs I have known.
As for the Americans, they are fighting a war! They can't stop and turn into policemen all of a sudden. Their own security, and the military aims they have set out to accomplish are far more important than stopping the Iraqis from stealing from one another.


Please explain...........does this apply to kikes, nigger and spicks too?
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
airplay
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sun Apr 13, 2003 6:16 am

It's not the US military's role to stop looting per se.

That's like saying a mother and father isn't responsible for raising a child. We must all deal with the consequences of our actions. The coalition forces are guilty of very poor military planning. They should have kept the UN in the picture. The UN and several member countries (like Canada for instance) are experts at keeping the peace and delivering humanitarian aid.

The RCMP have been involved in this sort of thing before and would be well suited.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Sun Apr 13, 2003 8:27 am

That's like saying a mother and father isn't responsible for raising a child.

Iraqi adults are grown men & women responsible for their own actions. If they choose willingly to loot, that's their call.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
airplay
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Mon Apr 14, 2003 12:25 am

Iraqi adults are grown men & women responsible for their own actions. If they choose willingly to loot, that's their call.

There are no police. There is no law. Who is to say what is right and wrong? It doesn't stop at looting. You could pretty much murder anyone you wanted in Iraq right now. Who's going to stop you? I wouldn't be surprised if the Mother-In-Law population takes a dip over the next few weeks.

Yes these are grown adults for the most part. But this is like the wild west. There is lawlessness and its a result of the coalition force's actions (invading Iraq and removing the regime) and their inaction (forgetting to assemble a policing force).
 
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yyz717
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RE: Why Don't They Shoot The Looters!

Mon Apr 14, 2003 12:36 am

There was an existing police force in Iraq. Where is it now? Probably looting also.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.

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