Guest

If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 12:53 am

Many of us are well aware of Israel selling AMERICAN military equipment to China and possibly to North Korea.

http://www.foreignwire.com/phalcon.html

Now if the United States cut all ties with Israel the next few questions would erupt:

1. Would Israel be able to survive since the US gives Israel more foreign that any country.

2. Would more of the Arab/Muslim world turn more Pro-American?

3. Would Arial Sharon start nuking everyone?

4. Would it make the middle east more stable?

If it is comfirmed that Israel is selling our technology to China and other nations I strongly am for cutting Israel off.

***This topic is for discussion and is NOT intended to cause an uprising.***

MCO-ATL
 
david b.
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 12:58 am

The Jewish lobbies and their threats are strong enough to prevent this from happening.

Why are they selling to our enemies? Some friends they are. Hell, UK won't sell airbuses to Iran.

1. Would Israel be able to survive since the US gives Israel more foreign that any country.

Yes but their economy would be in shambles.

2. Would more of the Arab/Muslim world turn more Pro-American?

Oh YES

3. Would Arial Sharon start nuking everyone?

He will be too afraid to come out from under his rock.

4. Would it make the middle east more stable?

Not really
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airworthy
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 1:08 am

>>If it is comfirmed that Israel is selling our technology to China and other nations<<

Boeing and TRW has also sold missile technology to China.
 
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yyz717
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 3:42 am

If the US cut aid to Israel, it would have to cut aid to Egypt as well....which at $2B is very substantial.

If Israel was cut off, it ironically could emerge stronger. When the West cut of South Africa from military & economic aid, they had to develop their own arms industry which went on to become a big export earner.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 3:55 am

They have shown us time and time again that they deserve neither pity nor money. Take out the trash, I say!
Dear moderators: No.
 
LY744
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 4:02 am

"Many of us are well aware of Israel selling AMERICAN military equipment to China and possibly to North Korea"

How about you point out where in the article it says that. At the very best you'll find rumours, about the transfer of technology from joint projects. The only equipment that is known to have been sold is Israeli developed.

LY744.
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Arsenal@LHR
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 5:50 am

The US would do itself a MASSIVE favour if it cut links with Israel, that way, you don't give the islamic fanatics an excuse for their crusade, and yes, the arab would definitely turn pro-american. Support for Israel is *THE* reason why arabs are always pissed with the US.
But somehow i don't see this happening.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
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yyz717
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 5:55 am

Support for Israel is *THE* reason why arabs are always pissed with the US.

Not true. It is certainly a contributijng factor, but not the only one. If the US cut off support of Israel, the Arab world would remain upset with the US and the West in general. The Arab world has basically fallen behind much of the world in terms of economic & social development & they are very jealous & resentful of Western economic & military progress. Anti-Western hatred & resentment would remain the Arab world, albeit without the convenient excuse of Israeli support.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
airplay
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 6:02 am

The Arab world has basically fallen behind much of the world in terms of economic & social development & they are very jealous & resentful of Western economic & military progress. Anti-Western hatred & resentment would remain the Arab world, albeit without the convenient excuse of Israeli support.


Except that the Israelis would start to hate the US too....

I find it remarkable that you can make these very sweeping assumptions of what goes through the average Arab mind YYZ. Resentful? Jealous? What evidence of this do you have? Or is it conjecture?
 
Alessandro
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 6:12 am

Face it, USA needs Israeli war technology. As if USA stopped relations tomorrow, I think those who are hostile will still stay hostile to the USA. After all it´s part of their identity to hate the USA....
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
avi
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 6:31 am

1. Would Israel be able to survive since the US gives Israel more foreign that any country.
Yes. The US didn’t support Israel from day 1 but we made it. The US is not the only country in the world that sells weapon and Israel has what to suggest too (The arrow for example).
On the not military level, it will be more difficult but we will survive. I country doesn’t disappear quickly.

2. Would more of the Arab/Muslim world turn more Pro-American?
Absolutely NOT.

3. Would Arial Sharon start nuking everyone?
No.

4. Would it make the middle east more stable?
I liked David B answer  Smile. It says everything.

Israel is not as weak as some people here may think. More than that, if the USA will “cut off” Israel, they will lose the only country they can count on in the Middle East (they thought they can count on Turkey and they were wrong!). This is not a US interest and it has nothing to do with the Jew lobby.

By the way, I don’t think Israel is selling anything to North Korea.

Long live the B747
 
donder10
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 6:51 am

Where does Russia rank in terms of US aid?
 
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yyz717
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 7:00 am

Except that the Israelis would start to hate the US too....

Oh really Airplay?

I find it remarkable that you can make these very sweeping assumptions of what goes through the average Israeli mind Airplay. Resentful? Jealous? What evidence of this do you have? Or is it conjecture?

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
todaReisinger
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 7:12 am

Jealous?


Well...this is an element playing a major role in the whole ME problem...but not in the direction you're suggesting here...really not.



* * * * * * *



2. Would more of the Arab/Muslim world turn more Pro-American?

Maybe...for a little time...But that wouldn't yet be enough, don't be too optimistic...


I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:26 am

Those who deny that if the US stopped supporting Israel that nothing would happen are simply in denial mode. The constant US support of Israel is the main reason why the arabs hate the US. Bin laden constantly mentions israel in his videotapes. Walk into the streets of Damascus, Riyadh and Beirut and ask them what they hate about US policy in the ME and they will most likely say it's the support of Israel. You can deny it all you want but that is the reality in that part of the world.

Still, i can't the US ever dropping it's support for the Israeli's, no US government would want to upset the important jewish voters.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
avi
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:45 am

Walk into the streets of Damascus, Riyadh and Beirut and ask them who is beyond the 9/11 attacks they will most likely say it was Israel...
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covert
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:52 am

Oh, of course when the US drops support for Israel opinion will improve.

After all, the minute the US backs out is when all the Arab countries will unite and run over Israel.

none
 
Guest

RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 6:06 pm

After all, the minute the US backs out is when all the Arab countries will unite and run over Israel.

I think this is a myth perpetrated by the jews to keep America in line. I think the only thing that will happen is that the Isrealis will need to learn to play nice with the neighbours and will have to think twice before throwing their weight about.

and if i'm wrong .. well there is always the UN, they were good enough to use when the Israelis wanted a country, they should be good enough now.




ADG
 
ryanb741
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 6:22 pm

To be honest I don't think it is a case of the US supporting Israel per se that antagonises Arabs, but rather a perceived support for Zionist expansionism, which probably matters little to the average Israeli citizen but seems to be a driving force behind the right-wingers. Your average Israeli wants peace much more than a couple km squared of arab lands but the Orthodoxy doesn't see it this way.

There is nothing wrong with supporting Israel as long as justice is given to the Palestinians. Give the Palestinians a state and the US can support Israel all it wants. It should also support the new founded Palestinian state to ensure fairness.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
AC320
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 6:23 pm

Wow even ADG is now picking up on secret Jewish conspiracies.
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charleslp
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:48 pm









 
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yyz717
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:28 pm

After all, the minute the US backs out is when all the Arab countries will unite and run over Israel.

No. Arab countries are very quarrelsome with one another. Israel is a convenient, common unifier. If Israel disappears, the intra-Arab spats will rear up in the Arab world.


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
747-451
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Tue Apr 15, 2003 2:28 am

"The US would do itself a MASSIVE favour if it cut links with Israel, that way, you don't give the islamic fanatics an excuse for their crusade, and yes, the arab would definitely turn pro-american. "

Yeah, sure... Insane
 
cedarjet
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Tue Apr 15, 2003 2:38 am

For sure the Jewish lobby in the US is mega-powerful, and a driving force behind American support for Israel. But it's NOTHING compared to the fundamentalist Christian lobby - and apparently 30% of American Christians believe that Jesus will return when the Jews are back in the Holy Land (which has happened) and the Jews convert to Christianity (still to happen). It's a weird one I grant you but a true phenomenon. Most opposition to a Palestinian state in the US comes from Christian lobby groups nowadays.

(Although it's blatantly anti-Semitic, as one Israeli pointed out: "We're grateful for the support but it's like a five act play where the Jews disappear at the end of the fourth act.")
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Marco
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Tue Apr 15, 2003 3:06 am

Most opposition to a Palestinian state in the US comes from Christian lobby groups nowadays.

Stop exaggerating. Not all of those Christians oppose a Palestinian state. Most of the opposition comes from Israeli's as it is THEIR country.
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Arsenal@LHR
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Tue Apr 15, 2003 3:56 am

Yeah, sure...

What do you mean "yeah, sure"? Why do you think 9/11 happened, why so much arab anger towards the US and Israel? Do they hate us because we drink coke, eat Taco Bell, drive SUV's and watch Simpsons's?  Yeah sure

In Arsene we trust!!
 
Guest

RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Tue Apr 15, 2003 6:11 am

Every time I see this thread I wonder what part of Israel the US should cut off ... after all, they're already missing a bit .....  Wow!





ADG
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:36 am

2. Would more of the Arab/Muslim world turn more Pro-American?

No. I highly doubt this. The Arab/Muslim world has other reasons to hate the US. Iraq for one. Fundamentalists would still hate a "decadent" Western Culture.

4. Would it make the middle east more stable?

No. Definitely not. Israel would still be hated, and would still occupy Palestine. The US is simply the $$$ factor, and I'm sure France and Germany would love to step in and make some military sales to the Israelis. I mean look how much Israel bought from the US. Can you imagine EADS and Dassault drooling over such contracts. $$$ controls the world people.

I favor a tough stance on the ENTIRE region.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
BA
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Tue Apr 15, 2003 8:49 am

1. Would Israel be able to survive since the US gives Israel more foreign that any country.

Yes, but it's economy would start to weaken greatly and would likely be forced to make trade agreements with it's surrounding nation. Remember what happened to China when they reverted to isolationism?

2. Would more of the Arab/Muslim world turn more Pro-American?

It would improve slightly. But there would still be American hatred because the US continued to support the corrupt regimes in many of the oil rich nations such as Saudi Arabia. Also, Arabs view the war on Iraq not as freeing the Iraqi's, but for the US' own strategic and economic interests, OIL.

3. Would Arial Sharon start nuking everyone?

That's a little extreme, unless his mind cracks.

4. Would it make the middle east more stable?

In the Israeli conflict, yes. Israel's political stand would greatly deteriorate. However, Israel would still be hated because it continued to occupy the Palestinian territories. However, just the US dropping relations with Israel, would calm things down. So in that sense, yes the conflict would stabilize slightly. Israel would be forced to become more cooperative with it's surrounding neighbors inorder to survive economically and politically. Right now, the only Arab nations that have economic and political ties with Israel are Egypt and Jordan. The Gulf nations are GREATLY influenced by the US, and that is what will continue the hatred.

The Arab world has basically fallen behind much of the world in terms of economic & social development & they are very jealous & resentful of Western economic & military progress. Anti-Western hatred & resentment would remain the Arab world, albeit without the convenient excuse of Israeli support.

That's entirely false. This has NOTHING to do with jealousy especially since there are many Arab nation's economies are based on America's capital system. One thing you don't realize is ties between the Arab nations and Germany, France, Switzerland, and other Western European countries (which are economically strong, and have strong militaries except for Switzerland) is extremely strong. This has nothing to do with jealousy. Just the US and the UK, although mostly the US. Lebanon's government, police system, among other things are based greatly on the French system. Not to mention, that Lebanon, Israel's northern neighbor has been a democracy since Lebanon gained it's independence in 1920. Infact, it was TOO democratic. That's one of the reasons why the Civil War was started. Too much freedom. People voiced each others views, and that's what sparked the conflict.

Anyways, that's a different story.

[Edited 2003-04-15 01:53:37]
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
LY744
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Tue Apr 15, 2003 9:16 am

"strong militaries except for Switzerland"

Whoa, whoa, those guys didn't stay out of conflict for so many years and through so much turmoil in Europe by having a weak military.

"Israel would be forced to become more cooperative with it's surrounding neighbors inorder to survive economically and politically."

I'm not too sure about that. Remember, Israel gets as much revenue out of Dead Sea-related natural resources as it does from U.S. aid. Those blocked Chinese weapons contracts sure would bring in some good revenues too.

Besides, how much more cooperative can they get without getting some cooperation from the other side? Maybe if the rest of the Arab countries went ahead with establishing some basic economical and political relations with IL, their opinion in the IL-PA conflict would actually get some consideration from Israeli citizens, who in effect are the ones making the decisions. All they know about most of the region's countries is their isolationist and stubborn views (not that it's a one way street). Now there's a paradigm...


LY744.
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BA
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Tue Apr 15, 2003 9:24 am

Whoa, whoa, those guys didn't stay out of conflict for so many years and through so much turmoil in Europe by having a weak military.

500 years without war because of neutrality which is why Switzerland maintains a tiny military. If you're neutral, you can't have a large military.

Remember, Israel gets as much revenue out of Dead Sea-related natural resources as it does from U.S. aid.

Yes, but it's still not sufficient. Jordan also gets a lot of natural resources from the Dead Sea.

In todays modern economic world, nations cannot rely without other nations. Even in the past this was true. China's reverting to isolationism for hundreds of years really taught them a lesson.

Besides, how much more cooperative can they get without getting some cooperation from the other side? Maybe if the rest of the Arab countries went ahead with establishing some basic economical and political relations with IL, their opinion in the IL-PA conflict would actually get some consideration from Israeli citizens, who in effect are the ones making the decisions. All they know about most of the region's countries is their isolationist and stubborn views (not that it's a one way street).

All I'm saying is Israel will need to resort to some economic cooperation with it's other Arab neighbors like it currently has with Syria and Jordan.

Israel exports coming into the Arab nations, and Israel imports from the Arab nations.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
LY744
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:35 am

"Switzerland maintains a tiny military. If you're neutral, you can't have a large military."

I would by no means call it tiny, it is in good proportion to the size of its country. The desire to remain neutral is the best reason to maintain a powerful military.

"All I'm saying is Israel will need to resort to some economic cooperation with it's other Arab neighbors"

And what I'm saying is that such a practice would be beneficial to all involved. When it comes to economic cooperation, I really think that IL is more open minded than its potential partners. Would Saudi Arabia, for example, go for a joint project w/IL if such was proposed this very day? Or would they rather go back to the good old rhetoric about the Palestinians or something else?


LY744.
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TS-IOR
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Wed Apr 16, 2003 2:54 am


Of course !!! This is the aim !!!

But what if Israel,i.e.the Jews,cut off the U.S.A ?

In my opinion G.W.Bush wouldn't have invaded Iraq if there were no American Jews pushing him and threatening him to do that.One may not forget that a major part of the Bush's presidential campain funds came from Jewish groups who accepted to assist him financially with the promise of rooting Saddam Hussein and putting a side the so called danger from Israel.

I think that the U.S.A.would suffer much that Israel if both friend-ennemies cut off.

 
AC320
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Wed Apr 16, 2003 2:58 am

That's right, we also discovered an immortality potion and refuse to share its secret with the rest of the world.
fuddle duddle
 
LY744
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RE: If USA Cut Off Israel

Wed Apr 16, 2003 5:11 am

The Iraqi threat to Israel, eh? The one that at best would only have a slight chance of materializing, and only in the case of an all out war with Iraq? Riiiiight.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it

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