sleekjet
Posts: 2006
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2001 1:35 am

Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 11:53 am

in passing DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act). Gov. Perry still has to sign it, but that is a foregone conclusion. This act defines a marriage as a union between a man and a woman. It protects the state from the scenario of a couple of gay guys leaving the state to go to, say, Vermont to get a civil union approved, then returning to Texas as "married". Without DOMA, such a couple could conceivably (poor word choice?) receive the rights and benefits usually reserved for a more typical couple consisting of a man and a woman.

Nice effort by Christians to stave off the homosexual lobby and all inroads they wanted to make in rotting our society.

II Cor. 4:17-18
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 12:00 pm

On the other hand, I do understand their counter arguement that strait people have already done enough to fuck up the "sacred" institution of marriage.

If half of them fail, are they worth defending?
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 12:07 pm

I can always count on my state to do the right thing.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 12:11 pm

Big Brother in the Bedroom. That's all it is. A crock of right-wing shit.
 
Ilyushin96M
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 3:15 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 12:11 pm

This is totally unconstitutional and unfair. You so-called "Christians" think discrimination and bigotry are such wonderful things? You ought to read your own good book more often, and leave the rest of us alone to live our lives in peace.

I've signed a petition lobbying Congress NOT to pass such an amendment pushed forward by the hypocritical, hateful Christian right. If there is any good left in this world, it will not pass.

Sleekjet, the only rot in this country is people like you and your mindset.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 1:37 pm

I thought that the only way you could "save" marriage was to ban divorces or make it really tough for horny straight people to go around cheating on each other. Therefore:

1. Behead those spouses who cheat (Henry VIII will be cheering in his grave)
2. Make every horny straight couple go through 2 years of marriage counseling before they marry. This includes watching "Leave it to Beaver" and memorizing all the cheezy lines.
3. Make all couples seeking a divorce spend time in a bootcamp run by Woody Allen and Mia Farrow in which both whine non-stop about each other.

Punish those straight folk who are out their defiling the insititution of marriage.
How can you "save" a marriage by banning it for gays? Gay people don't even have the right to marry? Talk about an idiotic misnomer by stupid people who have nothing better to do with their time but to bash gay people who actually want to start families. I've been with my partner for five years now, considerably longer than most straight people have with their spouses. Whether some dumb bigot recognizes it or not, is really not a big worry for me. I've ensured every single legal right for him that I can under current law.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 1:40 pm

On my Respected User's List you go, Jaysit.

You hit this hypocritical nail right on the head. Of course, it's not about "saving" marriage. It's about making life miserable for people that right-wing nuts get the willies around.  Laugh out loud
 
DC10GUY
Posts: 2590
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 1:47 pm

Jaysit, I agree with your post but disagree with what should be done. The only holy thing that I see could be done to save a bad marriage is "stone" the women. I agree with the rightwings on this one. Women are the 2nd biggest cause of problems in the world for men.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
AC320
Posts: 2809
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 2:07 pm

Gays are rotting society now? Yes save us oh mighty Christians from the evil homosexuals  Yeah sure
fuddle duddle
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 2:39 pm

Texas has dumb legislators.
Dear moderators: No.
 
777YYC
Posts: 702
Joined: Wed May 03, 2000 10:46 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 2:40 pm

I often wonder what scares some people so much about same-sex legal unions. Face it, bible thumpers, homosexuals are not trying to take over the world; so there's no need to keep trying to make laws designed to prevent them from doing so. Ten percent have been gay throughout human history, same with animals. End of story.


The Christian right will bring America down...
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4442
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 5:54 pm

Nice effort by Christians to stave off the homosexual lobby and all inroads they wanted to make in rotting our society.

Nice words. But you're not a Christian. I think you know that.

If you were a Christian you'd realize the hypocrisy in 'defending marraige' in a place where 1 out of 2 straight marraiges end in divorce. So who's 'defending it' from you?

Christ said absolutely nothing about homosexuality. NOTHING. He went off on hypocrisy.

You're many things. Do us a favor and stop pretending one of them is Christian.
 
MxCtrlr
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:22 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 6:09 pm

They forget that the leading cause of divorce is marriage! Who cares who the partners are. Are they devoted to each other and love each other and remain true to each other? If yes, then they are a married couple - gay or straight! Why even have the differentiation of "gay" or "straight"? Why not just plain "married couple"? Grow up, Texas and show us some of that "renown" Texas heart! Give these people a break and maybe society won't be so damn uptight about everything else! (But that's just my opinion - I could be wrong!  Smile)

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool
DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4767
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 8:12 pm

In my country, Belgium, gay people are legally allowed to get married. Evern though I am straight, I am damn proud of that fact, and the fact that my country was one of the first in the world (the second, after the Netherlands) to get rid of this discrimination.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 8:21 pm

Sleekjet, I think that the DOMA makes sense.

I've heard it said that for Christians, there's only one sole Biblical reason why you should get married. If you and your spouse can serve God better together than single, then that's the reason why you should be wed.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 8:33 pm

You will also notice, that as a slightly general rule, you don't exactly go around seeing Christians say stuff like A crock of right-wing shit. Although Alpha 1 says he's a Christian...

Anyway, I have nothing against homosexuals. I have no doubt that if Jesus came back today he'd probably be more likely to appear in San Francisco than in a First Baptist Church like my home church. I simply feel that marriage is meant to allow for birth, education, and well-being of children, to protect women who have historically been slightly less capable of fending for themselves than men, and to allow the unique strengths of men and women to be combined into a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts. 2 men who aren't man enough to love a woman...married? Why? Because you think help legitimize being queer? I truly feel sorry for gays, male and female, and I don't wish to make their lives any harder than they already are.

Heavymetal, the synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) cover only 3 years of Jesus life here on earth (excepting his birth). Even those are not very complete. We have no clue what all He said, but to say that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality is probably not true. Being gay was soundly condemned by the Greeks at the time of the NT, despite what historical revisionists would have you believe. Obviously, however, God didn't feel that it was a pressing enough issue to include it in the Bible.

777YC, no matter how many times gay activists spout the 10% theory doesn't make it true. Even today it's only about 1-2% of the population or so.
 
Hepkat
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 8:48 pm

Perhaps the most ironic thing about this is that in Europe, many countries give gays the legal right to marry or have a civil union, one or two even accord the exact same priviledges, including adoption, but this doesn't seem to have any effect on society at all. Straight people don't feel threatened, you don't see gay men and women walking hand in hand and flirting their new found marital status on the streets (even though they have the legal right to), you don't see anyone complaining, it's as if the right to gay marriage didn't even exist.

Somehow the Europeans managed to get rid of their fears, and the result after legalizing gay marriage was decidedly disappointing, absolutely nothing happened. No social decay, no gay flaunting, men and women are still getting married, children are still being born, life continues as always.
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
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RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 8:49 pm

Anyway, I have nothing against homosexuals.

Sure you do, and that's why you support this crock of shit called DOMA. It doesn't protect marriage in ANY WAY. Heterosexuals have done enough to screw up the institution of marriage, but the right-wing nuts, with their usual need to blame someone, blames gays for the problems of wedlock, which, as I stated us a crock of crap. What has ruined marriage is the fact that so many straights get divorced, not because gays want to marry.

to protect women who have historically been slightly less capable of fending for themselves than men..

ROTFL. Yes, and they should walk two step in back of, and to the left of their all-knowing man, right?  Laugh out loud

These laws were concocted by extremists on the right, not to "protect" the institution of marriage, but to further try to keep gays "in their place" by making them feel inferior. That's all it's meant to do.
 
Schoenorama
Posts: 2305
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RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 9:38 pm

Sleekjet:

"Nice effort by Christians to stave off the homosexual lobby and all inroads they wanted to make in rotting our society"

I don't understand how a self-defined Christian can say such a thing about homosexuality. To make things even worse, your profile says you are a teacher. Your religious thoughts about homosexuality are from the Middle Ages. It always supprises me how it is posible Christians in a modern and open country as the US, still maintain the same thoughts and ideas on homosexuality as those common a few centuries ago.

Over here in Europe many countries do give the right to homosexual couples to get married and to have all the rights and obligations two sexes married couples have. There isn't a single problem with it, birth-rates aren't going down and our societies are far from 'rotting'. Sure, many religious groups in Europe don't agree with that either, but none of them would go as far and low as saying they 'rot our society'.
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4767
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 9:56 pm

Schoenorama,

but none of them would go as far and low as saying they 'rot our society'.

Actually, some would. But here in Europe, they are ignored and disregarded by 98% of the population, and rightfully so. In some parts of the US, it seems they actually help determine the policies, which is frightening indeed.
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 10:04 pm

Your religious thoughts about homosexuality are from the Middle Ages.

Schoe, fundamentalist Christianity, like Fundamentalists Islam or Judiasm, is stright out of the Middle Ages. It's an intolerant, vengeful brand of Christianity that is so out of touch with what Christ was like, that He, I swear, must roll His eyes sometime and wonder about these people.

Jesus said "Do unto others, as you would them do to you." But with these right wing fantatics, it's more like "treat those that you don't like in a way that you yourself would be outraged over."

They aren't Christian, in my view, in the true sense of the word. They hide behind their faith to promote a worldy, political agenda. I have no use for them.
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 10:14 pm

I don't see the big riff...who the hell wants to get married....gay or straight, anyway.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 11:08 pm

"I've heard it said that for Christians, there's only one sole Biblical reason why you should get married. If you and your spouse can serve God better together than single, then that's the reason why you should be wed."

Now I've heard it all. So when Baptist Brad and Brittany are doing the happy 69 together they're serving God? So thats why people say "Oh God, oh God, oh God, oh God, oh God" as they're having an orgasm ! Thats their way of serving the Lord - together.

But I guess if they're not serving the Lord, then all those Christians who marry because they think their potential spouse is hotter than a George Forman Grill should be stripped of their marital rights. And as far as heathens and pagans and atheists are concerned, well, no marriage for them either.

Now that would truly "save" marriage. Or at least your warped definition of it.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
mbmbos
Posts: 2566
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RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 11:13 pm

To quote Mae West: "Marriage is an institution and I don't want to live in an institution."

Sometimes I wonder what all the controversy is about. Is it about the word "marriage"? Is it the notion that gays are mocking straights by having ceremonies?

Sleekjet, you mention gays obtaining "rights and benefits" that you don't think they should have. What, specifically, do you mean by that?

Are we talking about health care? Tax breaks? Power of attorney? Health proxy? Inheritance rights?

Sleekjet, are you aware that if I found out that my partner had been hit by a car and was dying in I.C.U., that I would not be able to see him without having power of attorney documentation on my person?

My partner and I have paid thousands of dollars to lawyers to establish power of attorney documents, health care proxies, wills, trusts, etc. to protect us from a legal system that not only ignores our status, but would financially wipe out the surviving partner should one of us die.

You know, my partner and I earn healthy incomes and we pay lots of taxes. Taxes that in part go to programs that will never benefit us personally - schools, child welfare programs, tax benefits to married couples.

Is it possible for us to look at this issue in a reasonable and fair way?
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 11:14 pm

MD90, most people don't get married to "Serve God". I got married because I happen to love the woman I got married to. I happen to think she's a great mother of our children, and I greatly enjoy our sex life.

If I serve God, it's not because I got married. It's because I live a decent and honest existence. That's the best way for me to serve God-by being that way. My marriage was consecrated on an Alter before God, but I don't see where it's serving God. And even if it does, who the hell are you, or Rick Santorum, or the Texas Legislature, or anyone else, to tell ANYONE what they can or cannot do in the privacy of their lives.

I imagine the next "logical" step by these Holy Rollers is to lock up any Gay people who dare say they're married, and who dare to have sex together. Far fetched? With these nuts running around? Don't laugh.
 
Guest

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Thu May 01, 2003 11:56 pm

Welcome to America. Land of the free.....but only if you happen to be a white heterosexual Christian male between the ages of 18-65.

I really would expect nothing less from one of the most intolerant countries on the planet in this regard. But I do applaud the 14 states which haven't yet signed this; these states are? Anyone know?
 
Hepkat
Posts: 2134
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RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 12:08 am

Aviatsiya, indeed. I'm afraid that more and more I'm beginning to see just how incredibly intolerant American society is, to our unending shame. Of all the western democracies, the U.S. is the only country with such self-righteous, fundamentalist, puritanic, out-dated, intolerant ideas, expressed not only by some members of the general populace, but by politicians of great power, even by our own President who described Santorium as "inclusive". When I heard that comment, I was overcome and shaken to my core with shame, that my President, the president of the United States of America, land of the free and home of the brave, would endorse such sickening, medieval comments. We have come such a long way, from the old days of being 3/5th human, from the dark days of women as second class citizens, but despite the monumental strides in tolerance made by all other western societies, we continue to lag stubbornly behind, in the name of God and all that is morally "right".

Quite clearly we still have a very long way to go.
[Edited 2003-05-01 17:17:24]

 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 12:12 am

"Sleekjet, are you aware that if I found out that my partner had been hit by a car and was dying in I.C.U., that I would not be able to see him without having power of attorney documentation on my person?"

He clearly couldn't care less - after all you're a major contributor to moral rot in America. If you're partner was hit by a car and you couldn't see him because some bigot in the hospital wouldn't allow you, sleekjet would probably heap praises on said bigot for preventing what he sees as the moral rot in this society. People like that want us to have no rights whatsoever in this society if they can help it. Its an irrational hatred masqueraded as moral piety.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 12:31 am

1) I'd like Sleekjet or anyone like him (unfortunately there are others) to articulate just ONE shred of logic that would convincingly illustrate how my partner and I being married (not saying I want to, but just for hypothetical sake) would have ONE IOTA of an effect on his life or marriage.

You see, if Sleekjet is actually saying that two men or two women in a governmentally-recognized contractual arrangement would have such a profound personal effect on his life and/or his relationship with his spouse, so much so, for example, that every day he would wake up and say to himself:

"Oh woe, woe is me! Knowing that two fags in the next town over might have entered into a governmentally-recognized union that allows one to see the other in the hospital if the other was in a car wreck, etc., just completely ruins my day! My own relationship is so invalid now..."

...then Mr. Sleekjet has some SERIOUS FRICKING ISSUES that need to be addressed by means other than ridiculous and illogical legislation.



You see, people seem to forget that the term 'marriage' already has more than one meaning... straight couple's union can be blessed by a religious institution, but that doesn't mean they're legally married. Same sex couples are merely demanding the same legal recognition as opposite sex couples. The "sacred" or religious institution of marriage is a separate issue altogether... straight couples and their churches can keep their God-blessed institution to themselves if they want. If some churches and clergy want to marry same-sex couples, then great... but that is NOT what the movement towards same-sex marriage is about.

Hatred from people like Sleekjet is what "rots" society... not two people who want to make a commitment to each other.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
User avatar
yyz717
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RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 12:32 am

I'm afraid that more and more I'm beginning to see just how incredibly intolerant American society is, to our unending shame.

I'm not sure this is true. I'm always amazed how liberal, tolerant & diverse much of the US is.

The problem is that special interest groups (religious right, pro-Israeli groups, anti-abortion fanatics) have grabbed the political spectrum. Liberals just need to grab it back. It will take 10-20 years but it can be done.



[Edited 2003-05-01 17:33:06]
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
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RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 12:49 am

"I'm not sure this is true. I'm always amazed how liberal, tolerant & diverse much of the US is."

I agree. Of course, fringe elements always exist at either end of the political spectrum and the discourse occurring across the vastness of this spectrum often gets parodied by the yackity yack between either end.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 12:59 am

Isn't religion great? Everyone has their own view of it!
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Hepkat
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 1:03 am

I'm not sure this is true. I'm always amazed how liberal, tolerant & diverse much of the US is.

The problem is that special interest groups (religious right, pro-Israeli groups, anti-abortion fanatics) have grabbed the political spectrum. Liberals just need to grab it back. It will take 10-20 years but it can be done.


These liberal, tolerant and diverse ideas are not what the world sees when they turn on the TV or pick up the morning newspaper. They see states passing laws to "defend" heterosexual marriages, they see powerful politicians making divisive, hateful comments, they see our government being held hostage to fundamental religious ideas, they see decent citizens being persecuted for having consentual sex in the privacy of their own homes, they see government policy denying the existence of well over 10% of the population. Most of these are nearly non-existent in other western first world democracies.
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4442
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RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 1:18 am

I have no doubt that if Jesus came back today he'd probably be more likely to appear in San Francisco than in a First Baptist Church like my home church.

Boy, you got that right Butch. I have no doubt about it either. He certainly had the hair for it.

I think Christ would feel right at home among a peaceloving city of people who time and time again have stood up against hate and war and bigotry, and been scoffed at and made fun of by the Pharisees.

I think He'd fit in perfectly in a place that long ago recognized partnerships, a city that was one of the first places that acknowledged the evolution from the useless hobby of carnal jostling, to the real and holy state of love, affection, commitment, care.

Damn, I'm really glad you pointed that out. The more I ponder it, the more I realize San Fransisco is on the short list of God's property on Earth that seems to have risen above, as God intended, so much of the awful, Satanic shit being done in His name in so many other places. Christ was certainly a liberal in His day. So, yeah. I think He'd fit in. There might be an issue with a dude worth absolutely nothing in material value renting a 1500 dollar a month one bedroom, but again, San Fran has a well known heart that always seems to find a bed for those who need one.

Then again, if the Prince of Peace DID wander into First Baptist, maybe He'd demand answers to the questions you people feel you're above answering when the rest of us ask them. Like how exactly your vaunted 'institution' of marraige is threatened by allowing two men or two women to bind themselves to each other, spiritually and legally? (In theory for life, but we've seen what you people have done to that notion).

Maybe He'd ask how you why YOUR leaders didn't have the imagination to meet threats like Saddam Hussein without blowing the arms of 10 year olds(at least the ones who lived) in the process?

Maybe He'd simply look at all the money and the movies and the music and the stadium rallies and the political groups and the Left Behind books and all the cultural crap associated with the modern mental laziness in following His word.....and, with a shrug and a frown, ask you if you really know what it means to believe in His message? And Him.

DOMA, a law intended to spit on and demean love, not sex...... is yet another in a long line of insults to Christ by modern Pharisees.

Thankfully it...and Texas....will be nowhere in sight when Jesus decides to wander Golden Gate Park for a breath of fresh air.
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 1:24 am

the christain right is going to have same explaining to do on judgement day with the way some of them carry on
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Guest

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 1:39 am

Yyz717 wrote:

"I'm not sure this is true. I'm always amazed how liberal, tolerant & diverse much of the US is. The problem is that special interest groups (religious right, pro-Israeli groups, anti-abortion fanatics) have grabbed the political spectrum. Liberals just need to grab it back. It will take 10-20 years but it can be done."

I rarely agree with Yyz717, but this time he's exactly right.

Hepkat wrote:

"These liberal, tolerant and diverse ideas are not what the world sees when they turn on the TV or pick up the morning newspaper."

You're right about that; tolerance doesn't make for interesting news, and people who rely solely on news coverage to form an opinion about a country certainly aren't seeing the whole picture (or even most of it). If they did, they'd see that most Americans are, as a group, very tolerant people -- and that includes most Christians. The intolerant minority exists everywhere; for some reason it is merely more vocal in the US -- perhaps because of America's more populist political and media systems, or because of the high profile of its Christian fundamentalists.
 
seb146
Posts: 13778
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 5:21 am

I and other gays in this country have though about marrying the opposite sex just to get benefits. No love. Just the piece of paper that says we can legally do it. The only difference? We would not be popping out kids. We would still have to pay taxes on schools we are not using. Wasn't there a war about 'no taxation without representation?'

Damned if you do and damned if you don't......

I also know people that give me the whole 'The Bible says....' speech but then say something like 'whatever goes on in the privacy of one's bedroom is their business.'
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 12:09 pm

Jaysit, marriage is more than sex.

Alpha 1, I said it's the only Biblical reason, not the only personal reason.

Psalm 133:1
How good and pleasant it is when brothers live together in unity!

Obviously God approves of gay marriage, eh?
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 12:14 pm

MD90, you do not HAVE A CLUE what God approves of-I don't care what the Bible says. To me, the Bible is a guide. To you, it is Literal. Take ANYTHING literal, and you get this kind of extremism in the name of God which tries to justify such act of hatred and intolerance.
 
AC320
Posts: 2809
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 12:16 pm

I have G-d on my speed-dial he says he's cool with it.
fuddle duddle
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 12:37 pm

And I also don't think you're really saved, Alpha 1, but I don't go around spouting that off, now do I? You say too many mean things to too many people on a freaking internet forum to possibly have the kind of spirit that a supposedly Christian man such as yourself should have.

And yes, it is literal. It's called the Word of God. What part of that do you not understand?
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
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RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 12:43 pm

And yes, it is literal. It's called the Word of God. What part of that do you not understand?

That is your OPINION, that is not FACT. I do not believe it is the literal, from-His-mouth, Word of God. I believe it is man's interpretations of what they think God was trying to convey to them.

As I said, if you take it literal, you can make justifications for any level of hate, violence, conflict-all because God said It Is So.
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
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RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 12:44 pm

MD-90, have you ever read "Inherit the Wind"?

And by the way, switch around a few words in your post and it could have come straight from Osama.
Dear moderators: No.
 
Ilyushin96M
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RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 12:53 pm

OK, so which version of the bible do Christians take literally? When I was in college at Baylor University (which is Southern Baptist-affiliated), it seemed to me each so-called "Christian" took HIS/HER version, whatever that was, literally, and made everyone else wrong for not believing exactly what they believed. There was so much hypocrisy, it was pathetic - these freaks gave bible-thumping a new name, almost literally throwing their version around at people who didn't think the way they did.

My favourite bit about this was the black magic marker that seemed to come with each individual's bible, so they could blot out the passages they didn't like (ie, love thy neighbour, judge not lest ye be judged), and keep the ones they wanted (mostly, whatever supported their narrow-minded, bigoted views).

Having been immersed in this atmosphere, I was so thoroughly disgusted by these so-called "Christians" and their BS, I swore off organised religion altogether. My life has been much better since. I am spiritual, but I don't allow my beliefs to be classified into any small box such as Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or other. They are too narrow.

Of course, some of the "Christians" on this thread think they are right about everything and everyone who doesn't believe the way they do is going to hell. To them, there are no opinions - only their facts, and everyone else is wrong. And, as far as hell...well, I've heard it's quite tropical there.  Big grin And telling people who don't believe in your bible, paradise or hell that they are going to the latter just sounds ridiculous.
 
MD-90
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RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 3:49 pm

One of my very best friends is a freshman at Baylor right now. She would agree with you about the hypocrisy. And the Bible versions thing is stupid infighting among Christians. You're absolutely right on both counts.
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 3:55 pm

It is disgusting how some people can be sooooooo narrow minded.

Am I straight? Yes. Am I homo? No. Am I glad that Belgium was one of the first countries where homo's can marry? YES!

Those are people like you and me for god sake, they are only different because they fall on people of their own sexuality.
 
MD-90
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RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 4:01 pm

And We're Nuts, no I haven't. I've never heard of that book/play.
 
GC
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RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 8:06 pm

First of all, once again, "Christian" has become a dirty word. Can we please look past Christianity and it's worst examples and have a bit of common sense.

Yes, there are a lot of Christians with bad attitudes, bigoted viewpoints, weird ideas etc. In fact show me a religion where their aren't. I'm as daft and bad as the next guy, that's why I need Jesus. Yes it's a crutch, but what's a better crutch? Everyone has one!

I've heard it quoted that the worst thing about church is that it's full of people. People get things wrong. Every Christian is (or should me) on a journey, 'cause we don't know all the answers, we don't think that WE are right about everything, we just believe that GOD is.

Yes, Jesus, would be hanging out in San Francisco, Brighton, Soho etc because He passionately loves everybody enough to put aside his own divinity and share the experience of man in the body of a 30 year old Palestinian Jew.

It's clear that He regarded the old Testament (torah) as the word of God and quoted from it regularly. In fact He said that He didn't come to discard the law, he came to fulfill it. In other words, the law still stands, but as we can't meet the standard, He does it for us and, if you like, represents us to God as clean, regardless of race, age, political viewpoint, sexuality, if we choose to follow Him. Then the rest is up to Him. Because we were created with free will and God regards our love as the greatest treasure in the universe, if we give it to Him voluntarily, not because He forced it.

Jesus message, simply boils down to, whether we accept His offer of reconciliation to God or not, after our ancestors told God to get stuffed because we're big enough and ugly enough to look after ourselves (hence the mess we're in).

The heaven / hell issue is simply do you want to be with God or not. As we're designed to be in communion with God (why we worship something even if we claim not to) Hell is the worst thing a human could go to. God isn't cruel by sending people to Hell, it's up to us what road we walk down, it's our choice, our responsibility, as is the state of our society. We made our bed etc.

The issue with sexuality is that God designed us to be a certain way and instructed us on the best way to live, because whether you believe it or not God talks a lot of common sense. Even down to things like cleaning mildew of tents in the old testament, teaching on hygiene to stop germs (which were unknown until the 18th Century) and basically how to survive as a species 3000 years ago. But we've got the same types of bodies and emotions and spirits that they had then. It's not a question of being better or worse than the next guy, it's whether you believe knows what he's talking about or not.

With regard to marriage God considers it to be the joining of a male and female as one, spiritually. Jesus did quote the passage from Genesis where it says, He created them Male & Female etc.It's the way (if you believe it) that we were designed. I don't believe that God condemns for the sake of it, He's (I believe) a very passionate defender of mankind who comes to us even when we've rejected Him for thousands of years. He just wants what's best for us, but it seems we often know better!

Apologies if this is preachy, I just wanted to lay my cards on the table because I'm getting annoyed at the misconceptions about Christianity that keeping coming up.
 
GC
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RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 8:09 pm

Just to follow on, watch the People's Front of Judea colliseum scene in "The Life of Brian" where they are having a discussion on a man's right to have a baby even though it's physically impossible. Hopefully liberals can take a joke  Smile

But it's a hilarious scene and a commentary on political correctness
 
GC
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RE: Texas Joins 36 Other States...

Fri May 02, 2003 8:23 pm

Sorry, couldn't resist. here's the script from the scene if you don't have the DVD:

[Elsewhere on the stands, sit the terrorist organisation the PFJ. On
a higherstep sit (left to right) Stan, Reg, and Francis, while below
them sits Judith.]
Judith: I do feel, Reg, that any anti-imperialist group like ours must
reflect such a divergence of interests within its power base.
Reg: Agreed. Francis?
Francis: Yeah. I think Judith's point of view is very valid, Reg, provided the
movement never forgets that it is the inaliable right of every man...
Stan: Or woman.
Francis: ...or woman. To rid himself...
Stan: Or herself.
Francis: ...or herself.
Reg: Agreed.
Francis: Thank you brother.
Stan: Or sister.
Francis: ...or sister. Where was I?
Reg: I think you'd finished.
Francis: Oh, right.
Reg: Furthermore, it is the birthright of every man...
Stan: Or woman.
Reg: Why don't you shut up about women, Stan. You're putting us off.
Stan: Women have a perfect right to play a part in our movement, Reg.
Francis: Why are you always on about women, Stan?
Stan: I want to be one.
Reg: What?
Stan: I want to be a woman... from now on I want you all to call me
Loretta.
--------[Unlike the cruel-hearted others, I'm going to comly with his
request.]
Reg: What???
Loretta: It's my right as a man.
Judith : Well why do you want to be Loretta, Stan?
Loretta: I want to have babies.
Reg : You want to have babies?
Loretta: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
Reg: But you can't have babies.
Loretta: Don't you oppress me.
Reg: I'm not oppressing you, Stan. You haven't got a womb. Where's the
foetis going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?
--------[Loretta starts crying.]
Judith: Here. I've got an idea. Suppose you agree that he can't actually have
babies, not having a womb, which is nobody's fault... not even the
Roman's, but that he can have the right to have babies.
--------[This seems to satisfy him.]
Francis: Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to
have babies, brother. Sister, sorry.
Reg: What's the point?
Francis: What?
Reg: What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies when he
can't have babies?
Francis: It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.
Reg: Symbolic of his struggle against reality.


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