heavymetal
Posts: 4443
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

Meanwhile, Back In The Homeland....

Fri May 02, 2003 12:13 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/05/01/border.forests.ap/index.html

As Hopalong plays Top Gun off the coast of California in the most blatant propaganda photo op since the notorious glare at the Eifel Tower by a certain Viennese paper hanger.........

......thousands of square miles of empty, quiet frontier along the US borders with Canada and Mexico remain unpatrolled through bureaucracy and lack of funding.

The snow is melting out there too. Pretty much gone by now in those empty stretches of woods along the Maine/Quebec border. Two, three guys would be all it took. Maybe they flew into Montreal, and, though scrutinized carefully and checked via computer for their place on 'stop' lists, the customs agents failed to bother inspecting the shaving cream can close enough. Wouldn't have noticed that the lumpy stuff in the false bottom couldn't be Gillette Foamy.

Rented a car, drove south and east. Left the suburbs behind and ended up on the quaint country roads of that sliver of Quebec south of the Saint Lawrence, north of Vermont & New Hampshire. Ditching the car wasn't easy, but they found a spot and spent a few hours covering it so it couldn't be seen by air.

Then the long hike into the wilderness. Flat, marshy pine forests mostly. Probably the biggest challenge of the whole proceedure, but also the least dangerous because.....well, because, thanks to President Tailhook, we're far too concerned with the security of places called Najaf and Kirkut, 8,000 miles away. No M1A1's up there in Maine tonight. No Apaches, no Blackhawks. Just moose.

The going is slow, but the maps...you know, the Gazetteer kind, in the red books, hyperdetailed, conveniently equipped with GPS ready lats and longs, and available at most Walgreens....make the destination guaranteed. He's waiting for them...they picked the most Hispanic looking of the lot, in fact even taught him some Spanish to go along with his drivers license...Carlos Martinez, hometown, Bridgeport, Connecticut (centrally located, heavy minority population, right off Interstate 95, which makes it easier to explain the travel).

They gave "Carlos" explicit instructions...no facial hair. Buy the brand name sneakers. Maybe get a tattoo. A gold crucifix on a chain would be a nice touch, the gullable Americans never question another one of their fellow infidel 'believers'. Of course Allah won't mind, for He knows your True Heart.

"Carlos" meets up with them out on a lonely logging road with an inconspicuous truck or van, the first of many they'll use. They hook up, hug, Praise Allah, and off they go. The first roads will be perilous, in a rural area where the wrong faces require roadstops.
But they hold their breath, stay low in the back. Once they're on even a two lane highway, they're safer...once they hit 95, where it starts near Bangor, they're home free. Set the cruise at 4 over, even when you see a cop. No one bugs ya.

3 hours to Portland. 5 to Boston. About 8 to Manhattan. 10 or so to Philly.
13 or 14 to Washington. The precious powder in the shaving cream can is enough to kill a million people if dispersed correctly. At least that's what the former Soviet bioweapons scientist they bought it from said. Kinda far fetched, they agree, but then again they don't need a million. 1/100th of that number will have the same effect.

Wonder where Karl Rove will have the photo op President the day they arrive?
 
KAUSpilot
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:15 pm

RE: Meanwhile, Back In The Homeland....

Fri May 02, 2003 12:17 pm

Let me guess, if Bush instituted tighter regulation on the US-Canada border you'd be the first one to jump all over him criticizing him for militarizing a peaceful area and once again souring international relations. Predictable to say the least.
 
avt007
Posts: 1989
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2000 4:51 am

RE: Meanwhile, Back In The Homeland....

Fri May 02, 2003 12:31 pm

A 1000 miles is just a fraction of the US Canada border. Are you suggesting that the US government, or the Canadian should try to control that border?
It is a ludicrously large task, in fact I'd go so far as to say it was impossible.
You criticize, but don't propose solutions.
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4443
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

RE: Meanwhile, Back In The Homeland....

Fri May 02, 2003 12:45 pm

KAUS...

(buzzer) Take a seat, Nostradamus, you guessed wrong. I'd sleep WAAAAAY better knowing our borders have some "hidden secrets", in the woods and the skies.

It is a ludicrously large task, in fact I'd go so far as to say it was impossible.

Gotcha, Av. Bear in mind you're talking to a country that just whacked the most dangerous dictator in the Middle East....and his whole military...in less than a month.

You may rest assured it's not impossible.

 
avt007
Posts: 1989
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2000 4:51 am

RE: Meanwhile, Back In The Homeland....

Fri May 02, 2003 12:57 pm

Now stick to the facts- you don't know if he was "whacked", or where he is, or for that matter, where is Bin Laden? I'd be willing to bet that if the entire
US military tried to close the border, it would still be possible to get through. There is no national pride or bluff involved here, but basic common sense. The border is roughly 5,000 km, or 3,000 miles, much of it uninhabited, or mountainous, or water. It would be a huge waste of time, effort, and money to patrol such a border.
 
ScooterTrash
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 10:39 am

RE: Meanwhile, Back In The Homeland....

Fri May 02, 2003 12:59 pm

Then the long hike into the wilderness. Flat, marshy pine forests mostly. Probably the biggest challenge of the whole procedure

... Then they got shot by Jimbo of the Maine Militia and "Rusty", his trusty .30-.06, who were out looking for "black U.N. helicopters."

But seriously... The reality is this. We will NEVER be immune from terrorist attacks. The terrorists have the advantage in that they set the rules. In that sense, the attacker always has the advantage in conventional and non-conventional warfare. We must do whatever we can to secure our borders without becoming what we as a nation have ever been: A closed country that would implode on itself economically and politically.

Be assured that there can be no certain defense against a determined and sophisticated terrorist threat. All we can do is our best. I think the government has made some steps in the right direction but we have a long way to go. I don't hear any government officials patting themselves on the back. They are being rather pragmatic about what the threats are and how we deal with them.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Meanwhile, Back In The Homeland....

Fri May 02, 2003 1:15 pm

Sorry Heavymetal.

But despite your denials, I tend to agree with Kauspilot
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4443
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

RE: Meanwhile, Back In The Homeland....

Fri May 02, 2003 2:08 pm

All we can do is our best.

And we're clearly not doing it.

It's too bad you've got to side with KAUS's reflexive right/left mish-mash, El. You've read enough of my posts to have read about my disgust of the leaky, easily penetrated real estate of my neck of the woods, the Florida Keys. About armed Cuban patrol boats tying up right in downtown Key West completely by surprise to the local and federal authorities. About the expressway of unchecked human flotsam passing across the Florida Strait. Once again, I'll ask....... see True Lies? Once they're on Route One, they're an hour away from the big highways all up & down the eastern seaboard and into the heart of the Midwest.

If you & KAUS are suggesting I'd be opposed to turning the US northern borders and the lands along the Mexican frontier into a North Korea style DMZ, with endless miles of landmines , watchtowers and barbed wire fences, yeah I would. I don't think that's neccessary.

But read carefully the scenario I just invented. Where in that chain of events can we "get 'em"? Can we lock down Canadian....especially French-Canadian....airports like we do ours? Where civil rights become fluid if there's a legitimate suspicion? No we can't. Can we ask the Mounties to build a "Wall of Surveillance" on their side of the border? No we can't.

What we can do is beef up our side of the sticks. Those logging roads I spoke of. Why are you people so quick to put boots on the ground in Iraq in the name of our national security (& that arguments dies a little each day) and yet you chalk up some extra Humvee patrols along those roads and highways as near impossible?

See, this is the whole fucking ball game to me. When a politician like George Bush says I'm going to be safer cause we own Iraq now yet doesn't give me....or my enemies...the mental credit to know that terror is astateless threat, that it can be planned for anywhere....itpisses me off. And it pisses me off to be told we need to secure threats 8,000 miles away while ignoring the concept of 'Fortress America'.....a place sealed up as tight and securely as possible, like a house in a storm.

Scooter's right, there's always gonna be a threat (especially since we're far more interested in responding to them case by case as opposed to understanding their origins). We need to spend money....a lot of it.....building Fortress America.

Not re-building the Middle East.
 
avt007
Posts: 1989
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2000 4:51 am

RE: Meanwhile, Back In The Homeland....

Sun May 04, 2003 6:28 am

It seems to me that if you turn`"The Land of the Free" into "Fortress America" that you, America, will have lost in the end. To turn your country upside down, to give up personal freedoms and rights and the life that so many cherish is the wrong road to travel, IMHO.
Sept 11 was a terrible tragedy. However, should you change the very nature of your society as a result? I personally don't think so. Be more careful, but don't look at each other and the outside world with suspicion, fearing attack at every turn. America will be a poorer place if it becomes Fortress America.
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: Meanwhile, Back In The Homeland....

Sun May 04, 2003 6:39 am

Gotcha, Av. Bear in mind you're talking to a country that just whacked the most dangerous dictator in the Middle East....and his whole military...in less than a month.

Another way of putting it is:

You're talking about a country that just invaded a third world country decimated by 12 years of economic sanctions and unpopular leadership, no airforce, no navy and no weapons of any significance, and it still took several weeks!


 Smile
 
MxCtrlr
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:22 am

RE: Meanwhile, Back In The Homeland....

Sun May 04, 2003 7:02 am

What American patriot said something along the lines of "He who sacrifices his freedom for security, deserves neither freedom nor security"? I believe it was Benjamin Franklin. Now, here we have Heavymetal, the vocal left-wing leberal that he is, screaming because the conservative right-wing administration isn't restricting his freedoms!

Think about it Heavy, KausPilot has got you nailed on the head. You'd be the first one screaming about Bush and his conservative, right-wing Naziism, and invoking all manner of left-wing diatribe to bolster your point, if the current Administration even considered something like what you propose! Once again, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth, Heavy. You ask people to look at your previous posts as a basis for your current argument but, in doing so, we see that anything this Administration proposes, you turn into the same "reflexive right/left mish-mash" you acuse KausPilot of. Take a stand and stick with it, Heavy, but quit trying to have it both ways!

If burning/bashing Dixie Chicks CD's, in response to statements made by the Dixie Chicks, is viewed by you as akin to Nazi book burning and Kristalnacht, then one can only imagine how ballistic you would go if the Bush Administration tried to enact even ONE of your points!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool


[Edited 2003-05-04 00:04:16]
DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4443
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

RE: Meanwhile, Back In The Homeland....

Sun May 04, 2003 9:37 am

Sorry, killah...

I can't argue with someone who has already made up my mind for me, like you have.

I've been a vociferous supporter of clamping down on illegal and possible illegal penetration of our national borders...(this includes, by the way, illegal aliens, which shatters your liberal assumptions right there. I'm somewhere to the right of Pat Buchanan on that score.).

I detailed, rather creatively I thought, the present weaknesses of 'Fortress America'. I had assume a thinking, non-sportbitch-seeking person would conclude that from those details, my opinion was strengthening the protection on our shores and boundries. Put simply, (in defference to you, Kent)....job 1 is strengthening our borders.

If you're on a crusade to get the last word on on ol' Heavy, have at it. I'm off to the pub.
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4443
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

RE: Meanwhile, Back In The Homeland....

Sun May 04, 2003 9:41 am

(BTW now we've slipped Kristalnacht in there, too, huh? Nice. Don't forget to let your vivid imagination link Auschwitz with Dixie Chick concert attendance figures too)


 Insane
 
MxCtrlr
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:22 am

RE: Meanwhile, Back In The Homeland....

Sun May 04, 2003 10:30 am

(BTW now we've slipped Kristalnacht in there, too, huh? Nice.

Since you brought the Dixie Chicks posts into play here, let's go back and look at YOUR progression. Let's see...First it was:
Atta girl! And props to 15,000 Greenville-ites (or, if you're a lame ass crankt right wing talk show bitch, Green-villians) who are oppossed to book burning.

Then it went to:
Absolutely. If people wanna take a page out of pre-war Berlin and act like easily controlled petty thugs, more power to em. Then again, we saw what came after the public rallies in der Reich....

No mention of book burning now. Now we are calling it pre-war Berlin and petty thugs...(wait, it gets worse  Smile) Then we went to:

Now, on to der Vaterland.

Most of the heinous sh*t done in the last gasps of the Weimar and the indifferent early days of Hitler's reign were done by the Nazi Party. Party rallies, not government rallies. So there goes the comparison that CD steamrolling events have the blessing...at least officially... of the local town elders.

And what happened at those rallies. Precisely what makes THIS COMPARISON valid.......Symbols of hated, despised opinions were destroyed by self righteous mobs. Did we get that? I'll say it again....Symbols of hated, despised opinions were destroyed by self righteous mobs. Is there anything in that one line that does NOT also cover a collection of stooges busting compact discs in a radio station parking lot? The answer is no. The actions are identical.


What's nice is how you seem to have forgotten it was you who started out with Nazi Book Burning parties and then expanded it to Nazi hate crimes (albeit, you never actually said "Kristalnacht", but then again, you worship Clinton who never actually HAD sex with a certain intern or never really smoked marajuana. Of those Nazi hate crimes, one of the most blatant was Kristalnacht) to bolster your "mob mentality" statement. Don't you just hate it when your own words come back at you?  Big thumbs up

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool
DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4443
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

RE: Meanwhile, Back In The Homeland....

Sun May 04, 2003 3:07 pm

Now we've gone from Kristalnacht to Monica. You mind telling me what I'm having for breakfast, know-it-all? I'm watching my diet and it could come in handy.

Keep trying, killah. It ain't working.
 
MxCtrlr
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:22 am

RE: Meanwhile, Back In The Homeland....

Sun May 04, 2003 4:28 pm

Now we've gone from Kristalnacht to Monica. You mind telling me what I'm having for breakfast, know-it-all? I'm watching my diet and it could come in handy.

I should think CROW would be most appropriate!  Smile

Keep trying, killah. It ain't working.

Which closes this little topic perfectly because, as with the original post, to quote a less-than-sage source, It ain't working!  Smile

Face facts, Heavy. You would be "sport-bitching" to beat the band if the Administration even thought about this - your other posts prove this out (although you would never admit this publicly or privately, until after the fact).

If you liken CD bashers of some flash-in-the-pan quasi-country singers to Nazi book burners, then I and many other posters who have had the unmitigated pleasure of battling wits with an unarmed opponent (namely, Heavymetal), know you would be crying like a baby at the loss of freedoms associated with this crap you propose. If you weren't, then that is truly scary for to advocate loss of any liberties and/or basic freedoms in this country is to lose this country altogether! If we change our way of life, change the way our country does things, due to a terrorist threat, then the terrorists won on 9/11 - They got exactly what they wanted! Are you so willing to give them that victory? I, for one, am not!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool
DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(

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