heavymetal
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Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Fri May 02, 2003 10:45 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Music/05/02/dixie.chicks.tour/index.html

GREENVILLE, South Carolina (CNN) -- Opening their first concert tour in the United States since lead singer Natalie Maines criticized President Bush, the Dixie Chicks played to a sold-out arena and thunderous applause Thursday night.

The Lone Star State-based band has been dealing with the fallout from Maines' comment about Bush and the war in Iraq. At a March 10 concert in London, less than two weeks before the start of the war, Maines said: "Just so you know, we're ashamed the president of the United States is from Texas."

Playing before a crowd of 15,000 at Greenville's Bi-Lo Center, the band waited a few songs before breaching the subject.

"They told me that you may not come, but I knew you'd come," Maines told cheering fans.

---

Seizing the moment in the spotlight as fans showered her with applause, Maines said:

"I heard some of you want to boo, that's fine, too. We believe in free speech. I'll give you 15 seconds to boo, if you want to."

But instead of boos, cheers flooded the arena.

---

One poster read: "The three French hens," linking the trio to the unpopular anti-war stance taken by the French government.

Another poster said: "I love God, I love country and I love the Dixie Chicks."

"How they could say that they're ashamed that the president is from Texas -- that's crazy. That's just not right," said a man carrying an American flag.

----

Another local concert Thursday night -- promoted as sort of an anti-Dixie Chicks show -- also sold out its 3,100 seats.

The Marshall Tucker Band headlined a benefit concert for veterans in nearby Spartanburg. Local talk-radio personalities organized a ticket swap to that concert for Dixie Chicks ticket buyers, who wanted to boycott the show, since the Chicks' tickets are nonrefundable. About 100 ticket holders took the station up on its offer.

----

"It was the wrong wording with genuine emotion and questions and concern behind it," Maines said. "[But] am I sorry that I asked questions and that I just don't follow? No."

---

Atta girl! And props to 15,000 Greenville-ites (or, if you're a lame ass crankt right wing talk show bitch, Green-villians) who are oppossed to book burning.




 
b757300
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Fri May 02, 2003 11:07 pm

So, people who don't agree with the Dipsichicks are "book burners" because they didn't agree with them and refuse to listen to or buy their music? I see as usual freedom of speech to a liberal is a one way street. Hypocrites.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
L-188
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Fri May 02, 2003 11:10 pm

You know If I had dropped 50 plus dollars per ticket a few months ago, I would go ahead and use it too.

It doesn't mean I would by another one again, but I already spent the money so why waste it.


Me thinks that Heavymetal doesn't' appreciate that most Americans are Pragmatists.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
heavymetal
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Fri May 02, 2003 11:22 pm

Well, by the sounds of it, they're pretty loud 'pragmatists'.

Time shall tell. Personally, I think you're stretching it.
 
jaysit
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Fri May 02, 2003 11:28 pm

"So, people who don't agree with the Dipsichicks are "book burners" because they didn't agree with them and refuse to listen to or buy their music?"

No, just the ones who burned their CDs. We'd call them CD Burners (Ha) but then that would give them some legitimacy. Frankly, you conservatives dig your own graves by your own stupid antics. You don't see liberals out burning Rush Limbaugh's idiotic screeds.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Fri May 02, 2003 11:33 pm

Well Heavy, I by no means consider myself a right-winger, nor a left-winger, but once again, people fail to realize that Freedom of Expression works both ways. The Dixie Chicks have a world stage to promote their expression and people have the right (the same as the Dixie Chicks had the right to say what they said) to not buy their records, request their music on the radio and not go to their concerts. That's the beauty of Freedom of Expression - It works for both sides (although few here agree with that concept - Here is "you only have freedom of expression if you agree with my point"). I agree with L-188, if I had dropped $50 on a non-refundable ticket, I would probably go (or give it somebody else) but I wouldn't run out and buy any more of their stuff either.

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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heavymetal
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Fri May 02, 2003 11:45 pm

Freedom of Expression works both ways.

Absolutely. If people wanna take a page out of pre-war Berlin and act like easily controlled petty thugs, more power to em. Then again, we saw what came after the public rallies in der Reich....so a cd smashing today might have some pretty effin ugly ramifications tommorow, but that's freedom right? Use it while you can. There's always someone who thinks you have too much of it.

Fortunately, I think logic suggests that a packed house in Greenville was more than just an arena full of 'oragmatists' standing around watching three girls they can't stand just to get their money's worth.
 
heavymetal
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Fri May 02, 2003 11:54 pm

 
jaysit
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Fri May 02, 2003 11:58 pm

""Lost in this whole controversy is one important point: That the Dixie Chicks' music profoundly blows."

Melissa Spence
Graduate Student

LOL !! So true...
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
tbar220
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sat May 03, 2003 2:26 am

Heavy,

There is a profound difference to the book burning in Nazi Germany and the burning of some Dixie Chicks CDs. If you cant see that, you're hopeless.
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heavymetal
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sat May 03, 2003 2:40 am

There is a profound difference in the atmosphere, Tbar. There is not a profound difference in the action.

And I compare solely for the purpose of warning which direction our current atmosphere seems to enjoy heading.

If you can't see that, then everything is hopeless. Not just me.
 
MD-90
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sat May 03, 2003 3:26 am

Actions? Are you kidding me?

The Nazis burned books to deprive people of knowledge, which is fundamental to our existence. The Dixie Chicks CDs are simple entertainment. They didn't even exist a decade ago.

I agree with TBar220.
 
L-188
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sat May 03, 2003 4:41 am

I do think that the Dixie Chicks have a double standard.

They condemm the use of violence to remove a murdering dictator.

But the condone the use of violence against Earl.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sat May 03, 2003 5:11 am

Heavy,

There is a profound difference in the atmosphere, Tbar. There is not a profound difference in the action.

And I compare solely for the purpose of warning which direction our current atmosphere seems to enjoy heading.


I've got to agree with Tbar and MD-90, there is a huge difference between Nazi book burning and free people, protesting the statements of some entertainers! Typical of the liberal left (and the conservative right) to blow it completely out of proportion like that. It might be comparable if ANYTHING the Dixie Chunks say amounted to a hill of beans and would be considered "educational", but that's not the case. They are paid entertainers, nothing more, nothing less! The reaction of people to what they said, amounted to nothing more than simple Freedom of Expression but, once again, people try to take something and twist it into something more than it is. Get over it. Not everyone likes President Bush and, at the same time, not everyone likes the Dixie Chunks! The fact that the Nazi government perpetrated the book burning you reference, and the government took no stand whatsoever with the Dixie Chunks' comments, rather, ordinary free citizens made their feelings known, shows me that we do not have the Draconian government so many people claim we do!

Liken this to Nazi book burning? I THINK NOT! There IS a profound difference in the action and it has nothing to do with what direction this country is headed. If you advocate that this action is likened to Nazi book burning, then you are right, sir! This country is headed into the toilet but from statements like yours!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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heavymetal
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sat May 03, 2003 5:43 am

Mx

Why is it that I have to "get over it" for a simple post on the Internet, yet those who disagreed with Maines's comments on President Bush are free to NOT "get over it" and go make a spectacle of themselves, enlisting tactics that...I'll say it again...were a pre-war favorite of the Brownshirts?

No, I won't get over it and I won't change my comparison. The level of toxic cultural poison in the air in Berlin was tenfold ours in this country, to be sure.
And your "aww shucks" dismissal of a simple, harmless expression of mob mentality pettyness by people who will NEVER 'get over it' strengthens my opinion.
 
b757300
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sat May 03, 2003 5:49 am

You have to remember that one of the classic attacks used by the left is to call people that they don't agree with a Nazi or Fascist. Sadly, they don't have a clue what a Nazi really was.

I never listened to the Dipsichicks so I don't have anything to throw away. That said, I support their right to state their opinions just like I support people's right to throw away their music, not buy it, or boycott them. They want their freedom of speech but only when it supports their views. If it goes against them or is critical of them they starting whining. With freedom of speech comes taking responsibility of what you say.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
heavymetal
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sat May 03, 2003 5:53 am

One ...two...three....DAMN! Six lines of thought!

You're almost an 'innerlek-shul', there, Rolf.
 
MD-90
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sat May 03, 2003 6:54 pm

< BLAM >

That was the sound of Heavy getting owned by MxCtrlr.
 
L-188
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sat May 03, 2003 7:04 pm

I was wondering what that noise was.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
heavymetal
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sat May 03, 2003 9:01 pm

You boys jealous?

Mx makes some great points. Now give him a talk show and watch all the lemmings going "yeah! yeah!" drive off a cliff when he tells them to.
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sun May 04, 2003 2:06 am

Heavy,

Again, the typical response to something you don't like - Label everyone Nazi's and compare a simple economic boycott to governmental infringement.

List one government official that has called for this boycott from the government's standpoint or from a governmental position? You won't be able to because it hasn't, shouldn't and will not happen! The same cannot be said of your analogy to "pre-war Berlin" because, such a comparison does not exist! The Nazi government wanted to limit all free exchange of ideas and saw books as the biggest threat to that. If the Internet existed during pre-war Berlin, rest assured, they would have assuredly banned access to it as well. This is why your analogy is flawed, at the least, and ludicrous at best!

That being said, you cannot deal with or agree with the fact that both sides have the right to express themselves freely (or does the First Amendment only apply to liberals?). Since you cannot possibly refute the facts that ordinary citizens are the ones doing this form of expression, not the government like in pre-war Berlin, you are left with the following shallow response:

You boys jealous?

Mx makes some great points. Now give him a talk show and watch all the lemmings going "yeah! yeah!" drive off a cliff when he tells them to.


You could have taken the high road and finally opened your eyes to see this for exactly what it is - Ordinary citizens, exercising their Constitutionally-guaranteed rights to Freedom of Expression, against someone else who was using their Constitutionally-guaranteed rights to Freedom of Expression. It's really nothing more sinister than that! It just absolutely amazes me that every time some thing happens that we don't like, we can always count on people like you, Heavy, to take every action to the extreme and invoke the name of "Nazi's" or "McCarthyism" to make a invalid point even more invalid!

No, Heavy, you don't have to "get over it", you have the Constitutionally-guaranteed right to be a complete, over-reacting idiot on this and numerous other matters - a right I will defend to the utmost. Too bad, the supporters of the Dixie Chicks' comments do not agree that people can hold opposing points of view, without being labeled as Nazi's!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool
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heavymetal
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sun May 04, 2003 2:40 am

You're pretty hung up on the fact that I seem to think anti-Dixie Chick mobs NOT be able to express themselves. That must have been from my comment "You know, anti-Dixie Chick mobs shouldn't legally be able to express themselves". Of course, I'm looking.....looking.....looking.....damn, son, I can't find where I said that. Maybe you can point it out to me.

I did say this..... "If people wanna take a page out of pre-war Berlin and act like easily controlled petty thugs, more power to em."

Hmmmmmn. Sounds like more liberal totalitarianism to me, don't it now?

(Or perhaps....it's that time honored conservative tradition of making up both sides of the argument, just to expedite righteousness!? You be the judge.)

This is not the First Ammendment argument you want it to be. I never said arrest the anti-Chick chicks. Or guys. Or poodles.

Now, on to der Vaterland.

Most of the heinous sh*t done in the last gasps of the Weimar and the indifferent early days of Hitler's reign were done by the Nazi Party. Party rallies, not government rallies. So there goes the comparison that CD steamrolling events have the blessing...at least officially... of the local town elders.

And what happened at those rallies. Precisely what makes THIS COMPARISON valid.......Symbols of hated, despised opinions were destroyed by self righteous mobs. Did we get that? I'll say it again....Symbols of hated, despised opinions were destroyed by self righteous mobs. Is there anything in that one line that does NOT also cover a collection of stooges busting compact discs in a radio station parking lot? The answer is no. The actions are identical.

The comparison is valid. Now, if you'll also notice, I went out of my way to differentiate the environment. Is a radio station parking lot in Nashville, 2003, the same as a Nazi rally in Germany, 1938. No. You didn't pick up on that earlier, but I'll say it again. No.

The debate can continue to center around the premise that such an environment could exist. Could modern America fall under the mental totalitarianism as Germany did, where CD bashing parties are the least of our cultural worries? It's an interesting discussion. One that doesn't seem to want to be debated here. That's fine.

You could have taken the high road and finally opened your eyes to see this for exactly what it is - Ordinary citizens, exercising their Constitutionally-guaranteed rights to Freedom of Expression, against someone else who was using their Constitutionally-guaranteed rights to Freedom of Expression.

Once again....say it out loud; this is NOT ....a.......First....Ammendment....Argument. I never said they couldn't.

And here's where we return to disagreement. You call them 'ordinary citizens'. I disagree. Oridinary citizens put the opinion of a rock star in its' proper context.

At the very least, they shrug it off as 'whatever' (Mel Gibson is a radically orthodox Catholic. Ahhhnold is an outspoken Repub. I still see and enjoy their movies. The Pope is almost strangely homophobic. As a result, I'll take a pass at attending one of his franchises every Sunday. But no, I'm not Sinaed O Connor, and yes, she was an idiot too).

At the most, not one more cent of their money goes to making that opinionated celebrity with whom they disagree any richer. I bought some Amway products once, way back before I found out the founders were almost single handedly funding some of the more radical right wing agendas. I don't buy them anymore. I did not hold a soap burning.

As to our book burners and our cd crushers, no I don't call them 'ordinary'. Their small numbers relative to the general populace indicate I'm correct in that assumption. And it's my belief that their action belies an uglier motivation......a "mob mentality", that because everyone around me is doing something I think is cool, it must be cool. It really is innocent enough when they're just compact discs. But ponder what that mentality could (and has) legitimized in the past. And maybe...I'm not holding my breath, but maybe...you'll see a sliver of my original point.
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sun May 04, 2003 3:09 am

Once again Heavy, you attempt to dance around the fact that likening this with Nazi Germany's book burning is a poor analogy.

Fact: THIS HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS/FREEDOMS!!!!

The Dixie Chicks made a statement on a world stage, in front of a foreign audience, that implied (rightly or wrongly) their view was the prevailing view in this country.

Ordinary people decided that they did not agree with that view but, lacking the same world platform to make that disagreement known, they resorted to the highest form of protest available to them - economic boycott! That some decided to take it step higher and burn/bash their CD's makes it no more sinister a form of protest.

Could people have just sat back and done nothing? Certainly but then they would be sending the message that the Dixie Chicks' comments were the prevailing view here (which, based on approval ratings, obviously isn't). So someone burned a CD and you want to see Naziism growing because of it. Maybe you need to come off the beach every once in a while!

Burning the flag in this country is an aberrition but it is a legal form of protest and covered by the First Amendment. Do I agree with that form of protest? No! Will I defend someone's right to protest in that fashion (and, obviously, those who protest in this matter are a minority)? ABSOLUTELY! That, my dear Heavy, is what Freedom of Expression is all about!

I did say this..... "If people wanna take a page out of pre-war Berlin and act like easily controlled petty thugs, more power to em."

Fact: The people you are trying to vainly connect this economic boycott with, were being "easily controlled" by a totalitarian regime. Not one of the people who are burning/bashing Chicks' CD's are being controlled by anything other than their own desire to make a point to the Dixie Chicks, in direct response to the Dixie Chicks' worldwide statement!

Let's skew this to another venue (strictly to illustrate my point further):

We all know O.J. Simpson is guilty as hell and got away with two murders. When the civil trial found him economically responsible for the murders, the father of the boy slain was seen, on the courthouse steps, smashing OJ's Hiesman Trophy. Was that the actions of a "easily controlled petty thug" or someone trying to make the ultimate statement? Going with your way of thinking, this distraut father was no better than Nazi thugs! When put into that context, it doesn't sound too good, now does it, Heavy?

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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heavymetal
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sun May 04, 2003 3:19 am

First, how is crushing CDs an "economic boycott"? You won't buy anymore, that's an economic boycott. How is destroying the ones you have anything other than ruining your own property?

Second, I'm sure it made Fred Goldman feel great for two seconds. His son is still dead. Very effective action.
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sun May 04, 2003 3:33 am

First, how is crushing CDs an "economic boycott"? You won't buy anymore, that's an economic boycott. How is destroying the ones you have anything other than ruining your own property?

Do you honestly think the Dixie Chicks would have retracted their comments (which they did, then changed back) without the public show of disgust for their statement? Destroying that which someone had already bought, which I will agree is stupid, sent a message to the Dixie Chicks that they had stepped on their collective tits, BIG time!

Now the question is, how can you take a simple (albeit, stupid) form of protest and liken it to Nazi Government-ordered book burning! It a massive leap with nothing to support the gaps!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool
DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
 
heavymetal
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sun May 04, 2003 4:04 am

I will agree is stupid

Was that so tough?  Wink/being sarcastic

how can you take a simple (albeit, stupid) form of protest and liken it to Nazi Government-ordered book burning!

Reply 21, paragraph 8, 2nd line. And 4th.

 
777236ER
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sun May 04, 2003 4:05 am

Economic boycott or not, the Dixie Chicks are playing to packed stadiums and selling lots of CDs. Funny thing is, you can sit in your arm chair and complain, but they have more money than you ever will.  Smile
Your bone's got a little machine
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Chicks Back! Boycott Sputters

Sun May 04, 2003 4:16 am

Symbols of hated, despised opinions were destroyed by self righteous mobs. Did we get that? I'll say it again....Symbols of hated, despised opinions were destroyed by self righteous mobs. Is there anything in that one line that does NOT also cover a collection of stooges busting compact discs in a radio station parking lot? The answer is no. The actions are identical.

Actually, No, the actions are not identical. It is easy to see where someone might be able to misread the two but, rest assured, Nazi Government-sanctioned/ordered book burning and Kristalnacht, have nothing in common with someone busting up their Dixie Chicks CD's. The Nazi's destroyed EVERYTHING that disagreed with the government's position. The US Government has not taken a position, either way, on this debate. Trying to liken this to Nazi Germany is a weak position. The fact that you keep trying to defend that position, even in light of the facts presented to you that the pre-Berlin book burning was a GOVERNMENT-ordered event, and the Dixie Chicks CD bashing was a spontanteous expression of FANS, is extremely lame!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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