Alessandro
Topic Author
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Fri May 09, 2003 2:04 am

So there´s a voting if this forum should stay or go, I post here and voted no.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4442
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Fri May 09, 2003 2:14 am

Fine. Go. ................
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Fri May 09, 2003 2:17 am

Where's the vote taking place? What are the reasons for voting no? I think it's nice to have the choice of posting here or elsewhere. Anybody who votes no has the choice of not posting here. Sounds reasonable to me.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
Turbolet
Posts: 1867
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Fri May 09, 2003 4:00 am

I vote stay.

Where would we all post our "I'm gay" or "Girl help" threads  Laugh out loud?

-turbolet
 
teahan
Posts: 4988
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Fri May 09, 2003 4:45 am

Captaingomes,

The vote is taking place on the main Airliners.net page.

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
Alessandro
Topic Author
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Sun May 11, 2003 3:03 pm

Seem like this forum is doomed, 440 no and 748 yes so far...
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
L-188
Posts: 29874
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Sun May 11, 2003 3:18 pm

Well I give Johan enough credit, not to put to much into a straw poll on the front page.

And I trust that he remembers all the clutter problems he elimated from the General Aviation forum when he created this forum and the others back in 1999.

If he gets rid of this forum, he will be back with the clutter problems he had four years ago.

That won't do him or any other user any good.

I wonder how many voting against, where here in 1999. I don't think too many.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
L-188
Posts: 29874
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Sun May 11, 2003 3:21 pm

The other thing about this poll is that I don't recall Johan making an anouncement he was taking a poll. Therefore a lot of people, including myself where not aware that it was going on until you you brought it up, Alessandro.


I think that may have skewed the results somewhat and is an indication that this is not a drop the hammer on the forum if it loses survey.

http://www.airliners.net/
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
777YYC
Posts: 702
Joined: Wed May 03, 2000 10:46 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Sun May 11, 2003 3:35 pm

I'm getting scared. I love this board.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Sun May 11, 2003 4:01 pm

If this forum goes all the flames and useless posts will appear in the other forums.
It should stay and just have every thread deleted (not locked) after 24 hours  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
I wish I were flying
 
L-188
Posts: 29874
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Sun May 11, 2003 4:04 pm

I dunno about that Jwenting.....

It is kind of nice to be able to refer back to earlier posts.


It would definately save Johan some hard drive space though.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Sun May 11, 2003 4:09 pm

If this forum goes, I go with it.
Dear moderators: No.
 
silverfox
Posts: 1029
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 8:39 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Sun May 11, 2003 4:22 pm

If it does go, there is nothing to stop one of you starting up a newsgroup on Yahoo or wherever. Just ask Johan for enough time to direct everyone (who only use the non av ) to go there.
Myself.... where will i put all my jokes...

And if that isnt enough reason to close it i dont know what is!!


Ron
 
Alessandro
Topic Author
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Sun May 11, 2003 5:58 pm

Seem like this ugly duckling will be gone soon, if he follow the poll....
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Sun May 11, 2003 6:23 pm

While I agree that it gets pretty pathetic in here at times, it does serve a purpose in keeping drivel off the civil av forum.
 
JAL
Posts: 3875
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 12:37 pm

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Sun May 11, 2003 9:42 pm

I vote that this forum should stay, but things doesn't look good.
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
KLAX
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:59 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Sun May 11, 2003 10:00 pm

I wonder how many voting against, where here in 1999. I don't think too many.

Whats even more worrying is the number of people that voted "no to non-av" and commented on saying how retarded the forum is...
4 out of 5 I have never seen posting in this forum...  Yeah sure

-Clovis
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Sun May 11, 2003 10:50 pm

I don't understand what's so bad about this forum. Sure, on very few issues the discussions get heated, but that's not a reason to close the whole forum...
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 12:02 am

It will be amazing to see the number of posts that drop by people if this forum goes. And we will see who actually posts in the Civil Aviaton Forum etc.. But I would rather keep this forum. Some of us actually have worth while things to say. But if it got shut down, I would not be very upset at all. Life goes on.
Go big or go home
 
AWspicious
Posts: 2780
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 7:47 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 12:15 am

uh... Was it something I said???

Seriously, though - I'm curious to know the reason behind the poll in the first place. If I were to guess, I might think there's a concern about overwhelming the server(s). Perhaps, the feeling is that many topics (...and some of the resulting responses) are probably somewhat meaningless and it's becoming difficult to justify allotting so much resources to maintain this forum at the expense of other more relevant aviation related areas of this website... Contrary to the initial idea.
Personally, I'd like to see it stay. However, I suspect this poll may give some of us something to think about before we start a topic or post a response.
As a member who sometimes post silly, light-hearted responses, I know I've opted to refrain from posting to a thread because I felt doing so may offend some, or, be viewed as inappropriate. Although, there have been times when I digressed. For that, I offer my apologies :-]

Regards

AW
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
 
galaxy5
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 10:09 pm

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 12:51 am

i think the non-av forum should go,it would reduce alot of animosity on here and make the rifraf leave, for they really wouldnt have any relevant input
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
Jaspike
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:40 pm

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 1:22 am

If it goes then there will just be loads of non-av posts in other forums, mainly Civil Av I guess.

I don't know one forum on the net that doesn't have an off-topic forum. I know a lot of forums. Why do they all have an off-topic forum? Obvious. That's why this one needs to stay.

Instead of getting rid of this forum, why not just make the rules tighter to stop people causing trouble?

Josh
 
MxCtrlr
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:22 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 1:30 am

I voted for it to stay. I wonder how many people clicking on that poll have never even been to the non-av forum (or any of the forums for that matter). For a long time, when I first started surfing a.net, I never even read the forums. It was about a year after I started surfing here that I started reading the forums. It wasn't until about 4 months ago, when I had a post moved from Civil Av to non-av, that I started reading this forum and found it entertaining (to use Heavymetal's phrase, "Sport-bitching" can be fun sometimes, while still getting your point of view across).

Not to sound elitist or anything like that but, since the First Class memberships help Johan pay for this site, then maybe he should poll us separately to make his decision. There are many paying First Class members who post in this forum and would not be happy if it were to disappear (I know I got my First Class membership because of this forum)!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool
DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 3:08 am

I say get rid of it. All the trouble on this website is here and most of the trolls and flamers reside in this forum and no where else. There are plenty of other websites dedicated to politics, religion, and the other topics that some here must flame as soon as they see.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
mika
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 7:53 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 4:31 am

Whats even more worrying is the number of people that voted "no to non-av" and commented on saying how retarded the forum is...
4 out of 5 I have never seen posting in this forum...



My thought exactly. There is an old saying that makes as much sense now is it always have: If you don't like it don't use it. It really really is that simple. I cannot see how this forum can harm anyone who never visits it in the first place. Asking for something's removal that in no way affects you is just plain stupid and very egoistic.
 
radarbeam
Posts: 998
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 9:00 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 4:53 am

Removing this forum will probably remove the sh!t stirrers from this website, that's why I voted yes.
 
KLAX
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:59 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 5:06 am

Removing this forum will probably remove the sh!t stirrers from this website, that's why I voted yes.

...along with a good number of fun topics, interesting debates, hilarious threads, and great users. Everyone is considered a sh!t stirrer to someone else.

-Clovis
 
radarbeam
Posts: 998
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 9:00 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 5:14 am

Right clovis, but this website was designed as an aviation website. If people wants to discuss politics there are hundreds of other forums specifically for that. There will still be interesting debates on here if the non-av forum goes, but they will be aviation related, we all love aviation right?

[Edited 2003-05-11 22:15:51]
 
KLAX
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:59 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 5:21 am

Agreed we all love aviation  Big thumbs up But isn't this forum also unique in its diversity and level of education? In all seriousness, 90% of the people on this site are pretty well educated, and most of us follow world events closer and more critically than the average web surfer. This forum has seen some of the most interesting debates on the Iraqi conflict and 9/11/01 I have seen anywhere on the internet. I have searched countless other forums looking for a similar place (after I deleted myself last year) and I can tell you, they are few and far between. This forum is unique...but that is something you dont realize until its gone...

-Clovis
 
MxCtrlr
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:22 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 5:44 am

There will still be interesting debates on here if the non-av forum goes, but they will be aviation related, we all love aviation right?

Personally, and I sure I'm not the only one, after 20+ years in this f**king industry, I have a classic love-hate relationship with airplanes and aviation - I hate to love it and love to hate it! Big grin

The non-av forum gives me a break from the "JetBlue is Wayyyy Kewl!" ( Pissed Learn how to spell!) and "A vs B" and "I Didn't Get a PTV on a 1 Hour Flight" (  Crying Wahhh!) and "I Heard From a Friend of a Friend Who Knows Someone Who Knows a Friend that SWEARS xxx Airlines is Going to Buy a Bunch of A320's!" ( Nuts Real reliable source there, ace!) and the "I Am an Airline Industry Analyst Because I'm 12-years-old and I Read Airliners.Net Every Day" (and someday my daddy will stop wiping my a$$ for me  Yeah sure) and the "Armchair Airline CEO's" drivel that permeates the Civil Aviation forum anymore. At least this forum has posts that deal with real, topical issues that matter and are thought-invoking.

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool
DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
 
Beefmoney
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 2:16 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 5:55 am

I need somewhere to rant about my girl problems

I vote STAY  Smile
 
N766UA
Posts: 7843
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 7:00 am

I vote get rid of it. This forum is just turning everyone against each other. In the General Av forum, everyone is cool-headed and has a good opinion. Here everyone just bashes everyone else and has a very poor argument. This forum will be the death all others because soon nobody will respect anyone else anymore.
This Website Censors Me
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 7:11 am

Stay. The people that get into the bashing may as well take it, but it doesn't really bother those who stay away from it. And sometimes, especially when someone posts an article from frontpagemag.com, the non-av forum makes for a really good laugh! Big grin
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6789
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 7:17 am

Here's a thought.....

Let's keep it......... and actually try to get along...sharing and discussing similar and opposing views without actually going for each other's jugular veins... and without the rancid nastiness that some love to sling here at each other...




Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 7:53 am

This forum, in it's present form must go. I started posting to this forum fairly recently. I used to exclusively post on the Tech/Op forum as aviation is my career/hobby/passion.

Whenever I checked out the Civil Aviation forum, the general subject matter really put me off. It wasn't even worth trudging through all the posts to find something that was any more worthwhile reading than "what's your favorite color of airplane".

The Non-Av forum was in this class as well as far as I was concerned....until Bush was elected.

That was when I started seeing extremely idiotic posts (in my opinion) attempting to raise the Bush administration to God like stature while attacking world cultures with absolutely no logic.

That's when I made my first posts. Of course flame wars were started by some who didn't like what I posted. I tried to be polite and discuss things at first but found that there are quite a few "bullies" out there who just refuse to discuss things in a civilized fashion. Escalation is the norm in this forum.

Furthermore there are some individuals who take a personal dislike to people because they were shown to be wrong. These guys stalk you and post the negative view immediately after your post. It doesn't matter what the issue is, if I say "white" there are some who go out of their way to post "black" right after. Escalation is the result and a bunch of useless dialogue follows in an attempt to discredit the person with the opposing view. Often with elements of intimidation. (or at least an attempt at it)

Obsession, envy, shame and self esteem issues seem to fuel these guys.

So...I suggest that the forum continues with a major change; Attach no contributor name to the posts. Let the words speak for themselves. Perhaps the little personal vendettas will stop and we can discuss the message and not constantly figure out a way to assassinate the messenger. Perhaps have a special section for signed dissertations or commentary on a specific topic that attempts to sum things up.

The silly arguements will stop. Nobody will accuse anyone of any personal attacks. Of course we can still ask for clarification or references to validate a point.

 
N766UA
Posts: 7843
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 8:03 am

That was when I started seeing extremely idiotic posts (in my opinion) attempting to raise the Bush administration to God like stature while attacking world cultures with absolutely no logic.

I'm gunna agree and disagree with you there, Airplay. Since Bush was elected this forum has gotten alot worse, but it's not because of people trying to "raise Bush on high," it's because of people bashing him constantly. I have seen very few original posts that were pro-Bush. The majority are anti-Bush and even Anti-American (or French, German, etc.).

This forum has gotten rediculous and must go.
This Website Censors Me
 
mirage
Posts: 3612
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 8:29 am

In my opinon a non aviation forum is a place to discuss non aviation questions. What I see here is just childish attempts to catch attention. I think it's possible and useful a non aviation forum but it's in your hands to keep it civilized and free of nonsenses.

I dare to say it's this forum own members who are making it a stupid playground, you don't bother to change this status so don't be surprised with the poll.

Luis
 
Guest

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 8:56 am

OK, Here is the entire argument in a single paragraphs:

People come to Airlines.net forums to mainly post threads concerning aviation. However, those people also are human beings, they have other interests. The Non-Aviation forum allows them to express their non-aviation interests and concerns without having to communicate through e-mail or other forums on the Web. The Non-Aviation forum is close, convenient, and well used.

Why should it go?
-Because a few users feel that this site should remain strictly and soley dedicated to aviation and its divisions. Simply put, they are ignorant of past clutter problems as stated by L-188 and need to understand the wealth of diversity and information the Non-Aviation forum provides to this site. One of the leading and most respected Aviation sites on the World Wide Web.

There you have it people, The reason it should Remain.

DeltaASA16
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 9:10 am

This is an aviation website, fine. There are seven out of nine forums on this site that mainly deal with aviation. One site related forum so you won't have to email the mods every time you have a question. One non aviation forum where you can chat about "the other stuff".

Is that too much? One forum out of nine? If you want to read nothing but aviation-related threads, don't come here. If you don't want to get into ugly threads, don't post in them. If you don't want to get flamed, don't flame. It's rather simple and it works.

As for the poll, I'd be curious about how the military aviation forum would come off. "Stealth Fighters Are For Wimps", remember?

regards,
aloges
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
MxCtrlr
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:22 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 9:13 am

Airplay,

While I rarely agree with your politics, I do agree with your assessment that the pro-Bush vs. anti-Bush crap needs to stop. The same goes for the anti-France, anti-German, anti-this, anti-that crap! Remaining nameless though is not the answer, as how can we add people to our respected users list when we agree with (or disagree with but still respect) their opinions. Such is the case here. As I said, I rarely agree with your political views but I do respect those views. That (IMHO) is what the Respected Users list is all about. It's not necessarily a beauty pageant of the people we only agree with, its about those people on here, who's views (pro or con) we respect!

As I've said before though, I think the forum should stay. I like the free exchange of ideas with a worldwide audience and the fact that I can also get my aviation fix on the same site is a plus!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool
DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
 
AWspicious
Posts: 2780
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 7:47 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 9:18 am

Generally, I try not to be opinionated in the member forums. However, I have to question the members who voted for non-av's removal.
If the non-aviation forum bothers you so much, why do you insist on browsing through all the topics and/or reading all the posts? After all, the only way to know ?how bad non-aviation has become? is by visiting it and reading the posts. Surly, if a topic seems objectionable or petty you would opt to skip it and move on to a topic which seems more to your standards... or, avoid the non-aviation forum all together. Contrary to some member?s opinions, arguments can be found on other forums, also. Read any good A vs B threads lately?
I do realize when people are charged money in exchange for a membership those people now have a say in what kind of content their money buys. However, I did a little poll of my own and noticed that most of the members who explained their decision for voting to delete the non-aviation forum are (like myself) regular, non-paying members - Roughly 80% of you. Now, I know my calculation may be unscientific, but, I wonder how close does my observation reflect the actual poll. Also, what measures (if any) are there to ensure each member only votes once... to keep things fair.
I am in no way trivialize non-paying members' desire to belong to this community. I also realize that many non-paying members have been frequenting this website for a very long time... Long enough to avoid the mandatory payment requirement. Yes, everyone is welcome to become a member. However, if you're not paying to influence the input, well... I think you should either accept the fact that there's going to be stuff in these forums you won?t like, or, you should find ways to avoid them.
I vote we keep non-av, but, everyone must adhere to the policies or risk having their membership revoked.

AW
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
 
MxCtrlr
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:22 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 9:23 am

Well Airplay, leave it to a.net to make a liar out of me. There is a glitch that is preventing me from adding you to my Respected Users List. I have e-mailed Johan to get it corrected. As soon as it's straightened out, I WILL add you to my Respected Users List!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool
DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 2:58 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 10:32 am

If non_aviation goes, this board will lose a lot of older users who've been around since the beginning. I've been around for a long time, long enough to see many respected users leave because of a lot of B.S. running around here with mods and etc.

Forums are not fun anymore. The only one I use frequently now is the tech_ops. Other than that, I just use the photos on this site now.


Cheers,
FSP
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 11:33 am

Let's put it this way, Johan. If you get rid of this forum, you'll lose many valuable, long-time members. It's a perfect example of cutting off your head because it aches a bit. And just as stupid.
Dear moderators: No.
 
777YYC
Posts: 702
Joined: Wed May 03, 2000 10:46 am

RE: Non-av Forum Stay Or Go?

Mon May 12, 2003 1:57 pm

I'll second We're Nuts:

If this forum goes, I'm reseting my homepage to http://www.vhforums.com !  Sad


[Edited 2003-05-12 07:07:35]

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