mika
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 7:53 am

Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 5:27 am

Earlier today a 30yr old guy went mad with a steel pipe in Stockholm killing 1 and downing 7 other people which of 3 were children. Two of the victims are still in critical shape according to swedish media. This pisses me off to a godlike level. And the worst thing is that in this wonderful country of ours with it's equally wonderful legal system this guy is looking at 2-3 years of prison at it's best. Take my word for it. If it'd be in a U.S state with the death penalty this guy could probably preare for a meeting with his creator. This would have been the only right thing in my mind. You steal another persons life, you die! Hands down, no questions asked.

Here's a link to the article for you swedish speaking persons out there:http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,308652,00.html
 
mika
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 7:53 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 5:29 am

This prooves another thing: That you do not have to have a gun to injure and kill innocent people. Even though i am a bit against the amount of weapons circulating in the US and it's gun laws this had to be said.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 5:39 am

Condolences to the victims & families...
--------------------------------------
"You steal another persons life, you die! Hands down, no questions asked."

Why's my stomach aching that much?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
mika
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 7:53 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 5:44 am



Why's my stomach aching that much?


Obviously i didn't mean that someone should be executed without a fair trial. Just to clarify myself if i wasn't clear enough.
 
747-451
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 6:03 am

I demand that they ban all steel pipes in the hands of regular people andf that they should be regulated and insured. Themanufacturers of steel pipes shouold be held accountable for how their products are misused  Insane
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 6:09 am

I demand that they ban all steel pipes in the hands of regular people and that they should be regulated and insured. The manufacturers of steel pipes shouold be held accountable for how their products are misused.

Dang it 747-451, you beat me to it. Big grin I was going to say the same thing.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
bmi330
Posts: 1429
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 9:04 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 6:14 am

Didn't no the WWE was on tour in Sweden
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 6:39 am

Mika, how can you create a law that's so subjective and based on personal opinion? There will never be a system that is completly fair.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
mika
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 7:53 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 7:59 am

There will never be a system that is completly fair.


I didn't say that. But in my opinion the swedish legal system is amongst the worst in the world. It is made for criminals, not against them. A couple of years ago here in my home town a drunk driver ran straight into a group of teenagers from my school at that time and one of them was injured so badly that he died later in the hospital. He was 14 years old. Guess what the drunkard who droove the car got? 6 years (the maximum amount for drunk driving) in prison. Even if those 6 years are in no way compansation for a young life taken he was walking the streets as a free man after 2.5 years. This is absolutely sick. I can't say what i'd do to this guy if i'd ever see him.


And the above case is not the only one. This particular incident happened here in the same small swedish town where i live. A couple of young kids decided to race eachother through the town centre late one rainy evening. Then one of the guys lost control of his car and smashed right into a bus stop where 3 teenage girls were waiting for the bus. One of those girls got severe brain damage from that and partially lost her ability to speak. Guess what the driver got? a $200 fine. Nothing more. Absoltuely sickening.



And there is a major incident which i am not 100% sure of to be honest but i am 95% sure. This was around halloween 1998 at a privately held party in the city of Gothenburg. Some people had rented a fairly large facility to house the halloween party and then the place caught fire in the middle of the night. It was later discovered that one or more (i don't remember) teenage boys had put the place on fire (Though they never intended to hurt anyone but what the f*ck do you expect when you do something like that??) because they were denied entrance to the party. 63 young persons died and 200 were injured. The guys got 2-3 years in some juvenile home if my memory isn't failing me completely. 63 people died and the perpetraitors proably walk the streets today. There are no words in my vocabulary to explain my feelings about this.



I would like to hear someone in charge try to defend some of the f*cked up laws that this country has. I doubt they could without being laughed at.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 8:09 am

I didn't say that. But in my opinion the swedish legal system is amongst the worst in the world. It is made for criminals, not against them. A couple of years ago here in my home town a drunk driver ran straight into a group of teenagers from my school at that time and one of them was injured so badly that he died later in the hospital. He was 14 years old. Guess what the drunkard who droove the car got? 6 years (the maximum amount for drunk driving) in prison. Even if those 6 years are in no way compansation for a young life taken he was walking the streets as a free man after 2.5 years. This is absolutely sick. I can't say what i'd do to this guy if i'd ever see him.

Yeah, you're not being irrational and basing decisions on emotion are you? How does this advocate the death penalty? So in your opinion the judicial system isn't tough enough. Cry me a river, that's no reason to say people should be executed.

And the above case is not the only one. This particular incident happened here in the same small swedish town where i live. A couple of young kids decided to race eachother through the town centre late one rainy evening. Then one of the guys lost control of his car and smashed right into a bus stop where 3 teenage girls were waiting for the bus. One of those girls got severe brain damage from that and partially lost her ability to speak. Guess what the driver got? a $200 fine. Nothing more. Absoltuely sickening.

So kill the driver?


There are no words in my vocabulary to explain my feelings about this.

But "if you take a life you deserve to die"? That's what you said. Those are words aren't they? You're advocating taking someone's life with a system that's discriminatory and based upon how much money you have.

I would like to hear someone in charge try to defend some of the f*cked up laws that this country has. I doubt they could without being laughed at.

So why not vote for someone who puts forward non fucked-up laws? If you feel strongly about this, sitting on your arse and whining to aircraft enthusiasts isn't going to help is it?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
mika
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 7:53 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 8:53 am

First off: So why not vote for someone who puts forward non fucked-up laws? If you feel strongly about this, sitting on your arse and whining to aircraft enthusiasts isn't going to help is it?


You are jumping to conclusions. I did exactly that, voted for someone who wan't thougher laws and more resources for the L.E.


So kill the driver?


Yeah, you're not being irrational and basing decisions on emotion are you? How does this advocate the death penalty? So in your opinion the judicial system isn't tough enough. Cry me a river, that's no reason to say people should be executed.


Once again you jump the gun. The death penanlty is not justified in every case. The above cases are examples of such.


But "if you take a life you deserve to die"? That's what you said. Those are words aren't they? You're advocating taking someone's life with a system that's discriminatory and based upon how much money you have.

I'll clarify myself. What i mean is that if you purposely smash someones head in with a pipe in an obvious atempt to do as much harm as possible (No doubt that this was the guy's goal that went balistic today) and then end up killing that person you have ultimately spent your own life aswell. Freedom of speech and action. This person is completely responsible for his own actions and should take the consecuences of them. If you choose to kill, then you die aswell. Accidentally driving a car into a crowd for example would not justify the death penalty. It's about the intent of the perpetraitor.


What i'm mainly doing here is lashing out on the swedish legal system, not necessarilly promoting the death penalty.
 
Hepkat
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 9:00 am

Mika, probably the Swedish system is the way it is because there was never a need for something stricter, such as has been the case in the U.S. Justice systems usually fit the culture to which they belong, it therefore makes no sense to compare the U.S. justice system to the one in Sweden. There are completely different circumstances, different histories and different views at play here.

Also, has it occured to you that perhaps the man lashing out today was mentally ill? If he wished to kill someone, why do it in full view of the public? I'm not making excuses for him, simply giving you something to think about.

 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 9:02 am

Once again you jump the gun. The death penanlty is not justified in every case. The above cases are examples of such.

Exactly why something as drastic as the death penalty shouldn't be implimented, it's too subjective! IN YOUR OPINION the above cases are examples of crimes where the death penalty shouldn't be implimented. Why is your opinion any more valid than anyone elses?

If you choose to kill, then you die aswell

In your opinon right? What happens if you choose to kill, but a good lawyer gets you off death row? Fair system for all?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
mika
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 7:53 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 9:45 am

In your opinon right? What happens if you choose to kill, but a good lawyer gets you off death row?


Shouldn't be possible.


Exactly why something as drastic as the death penalty shouldn't be implimented, it's too subjective! IN YOUR OPINION the above cases are examples of crimes where the death penalty shouldn't be implimented. Why is your opinion any more valid than anyone elses?


To quote myself:

Freedom of speech and action. This person is completely responsible for his own actions and should take the consecuences of them. If you choose to kill, then you die aswell. Accidentally driving a car into a crowd for example would not justify the death penalty. It's about the intent of the perpetraitor.


It's not about my opinion. If it's obvious that the perpetraitor killed a person and had the intent to do so or should have understood that a person dies when you bash him/her in the head with a steel pipe he should face the ultimate consecuence for it. It's not about any one person deciding who is going to be executed but rather common sense telling you that there is no other way than that this person knew exactly what would happen if he commited the action that he did. And if he was mentally ill? That would be another case as at that point he might have not understood the severity of his actions. But if a sane person deliberatly takes the life of another human being: There is no doubt.
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 10:00 am

In your opinon right? What happens if you choose to kill, but a good lawyer gets you off death row?

Shouldn't be possible.


In this case there is no need for a lawyer. Without lawyer there is no fair trial. And even you don't wish to see people sentenced to death without fair trial.

NoUFO
I support the right to arm bears
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 10:00 am

Shouldn't be possible.

But it is. You can never have a perfect system.

If it's obvious that the perpetraitor killed a person and had the intent to do so or should have understood that a person dies when you bash him/her in the head with a steel pipe he should face the ultimate consecuence for it

IN YOUR OPINION!! You're talking about justifying the murder of someone else, because they've killed someone. It's a COMPLETLY subjective argument based on personal opinions! To me it's NOT obvious that someone should be killed for killing someone else.

It's not about any one person deciding who is going to be executed but rather common sense telling you that there is no other way than that this person knew exactly what would happen if he commited the action that he did

The death penalty is a deterrant? It's been shown time and time and time again that it's not. Common sense is supposed to justify the death penalty? Uh...how? Common sense isn't that common. People have different opinions about the death penalty. It's not "obvious" that the death penalty is needed.

And if he was mentally ill? That would be another case as at that point he might have not understood the severity of his actions.

It's not that black and white. Where's the line between mentally ill and not mentally ill? Where's the line between self defence and agression? Is cold-blooded premeditated murder as severe as spur-of-the-moment emotion? Is a 17 year old accountable for their actions? 16? 15? 14? All of these are based on personal opinion.

But if a sane person deliberatly takes the life of another human being: There is no doubt.

.........in your opinion.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
mika
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 7:53 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 11:01 am

But if a sane person deliberatly takes the life of another human being: There is no doubt.

.........in your opinion.



No. Common sense should tell you that.


Is a 17 year old accountable for their actions? 16? 15? 14?

Not to the fullest extent. They'r not of legal age. Their parents play a large role in their actions at this age. And no, the parents should not be executed. (To state the obvious).



Common sense is supposed to justify the death penalty? Uh...how? Common sense isn't that common. People have different opinions about the death penalty. It's not "obvious" that the death penalty is needed.


All the obviouses and common senses that iv'e written in the above post's refer to the obviousness in someone shooting someone in the head with a sawed of shotgun for an example. In this case it is obvious that the person shoting the gun knew that he would or could kill the person he shot. It might not be obvious or fall under common sense to have that person executed but it is obvious that he knew the extent of his actions.



IN YOUR OPINION!! You're talking about justifying the murder of someone else, because they've killed someone. It's a COMPLETLY subjective argument based on personal opinions! To me it's NOT obvious that someone should be killed for killing someone else.


Is it not obvious to you that if you hit someone repeatedly in the head with a steel pipe that the person might die? Again, i'm talking about the obvious in the act, not it being obvious to execute anyone.



Shouldn't be possible.

But it is. You can never have a perfect system.


Fair enough.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13221
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 11:06 am

This case does not warrant a death penalty, in the US most times you have to establish pre-meditation.

This was some kind of psychotic rage incident induced by not taking medication or a traumatic event, perhaps this person just "snapped".

Either way these kind of murders rarely ever get the death penalty in the US States that persue death penalty convictions.

That said I am at a loss sometimes to the rediculous (to me atleast) penalties some criminals get in Europe, like that guy that killed that Dutch Politician.

That murder was a Pre-meditated murder, he thought it out and was fully aware of the consequences.

That should warrant atleast life in prison.

I know many Europeans see the US criminal Justice system as too hard, but in the same breath you have to admit that the European system is way too easy.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
mika
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 7:53 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 11:12 am

I know many Europeans see the US criminal Justice system as too hard.


Count me out of that group. I invite anyone who thinks that the US laws are to tight (Excepting the death penalty) to live in Sweden and experience our so called criminal justice.
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 11:47 am

But in my opinion the swedish legal system is amongst the worst in the world. It is made for criminals, not against them. A couple of years ago here in my home town a drunk driver ran straight into a group of teenagers from my school at that time and one of them was injured so badly that he died later in the hospital. He was 14 years old. Guess what the drunkard who droove the car got? 6 years (the maximum amount for drunk driving) in prison. Even if those 6 years are in no way compansation for a young life taken he was walking the streets as a free man after 2.5 years.

In the United States, he might very well have avoided any jail time at all, or served maybe a year at most. Drunk driving is scarcely a crime in most places. As long as there's been no crash, the police will frequently give a drunk driver a lift home and not arrest him at all. At least that used to be the practice; arrests are more common now, but especially in small towns and rural areas the cops still follow a de facto "ride home" policy.
If someone's really unlucky, and gets convicted of DWI, he may have his driver's license suspended for a while. Which is no big deal, as most people in those circumstances keep on driving anyhow.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13221
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 11:53 am

The ride home thing does not happen, not in small towns, not for "connected" people.

President George W. Bush's DWI in Kennebuckport Maine is one example.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
mika
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 7:53 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 6:40 pm

So in that above example with the drunkard accidentally killing 1 person, he could look at no jail time at all?
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 6:45 pm

What about the guy who killed and butchered a guy, admitted it and got 2 years for it? Seems pretty fucked up in the head if you ask me.

 
mika
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 7:53 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 6:46 pm

I couldn't argue with that Staffan. This is exactly what i'm talking about.
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6059
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 6:54 pm

... aaand, let's look at the punishment for economic crime. What do you say? 6-10 years? And how about those who commit rapes? What do you say? 6-10 months? Oh great.

At least you're not the only country with a f***ed up justice system.
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 6:54 pm

If I'm not mistaken, the 2 years weren't even for killing the guy, he went free from that... Since he butchered the body, the cause of death couldn't be determined (even though he admitted he had done it), and he was sentenced to 2 years for "brott mot griftefriden".

 
mika
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2000 7:53 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Tue May 20, 2003 7:18 pm

And i wouldn't be surprised if he'll get out of jail after half that time.



 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13221
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Wed May 21, 2003 12:34 am

DWI with no crash or injured people gets you lots of fines and loss of license, the second offense gets you jail time.

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
AerLingus
Posts: 2280
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 9:22 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Wed May 21, 2003 1:07 am

Mika! It's cool seeing someone from Gothenborg on A.net. I still have family in that city I have yet to meet. Hope to someday track them down.

Anyway, United States law is a bit more nuanced than simply giving someone the axe for swinging a steel pipe around and killing someone. He was obviously mentally ill and probably would have been placed in a mental facility had he been in the United States.
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Wed May 21, 2003 1:19 am

DWI with no crash or injured people gets you lots of fines and loss of license, the second offense gets you jail time.

In many states, maybe all, people with no prior convictions can avoid punishment entirely by entering so-called "alcohol education" programs. Basically, they're something like AA meetings, a bunch of people sitting around and claiming that their "alcohol problems" really aren't their fault, their parents/schooling/friends/environment were really to blame. There's usually a substantial fee (c. $500+) for these programs, which might be considered a form of punishment, but in many cases people sign affadavits claiming to be indigent and get fee waivers.
Now, a regular DWI conviction indeed usually results in license suspensions. As I noted earlier, however, that's a meaningless punishment because most people just keep on driving notwithstanding the suspensions. While getting caught operating under a DWI suspension is a fairly serious offense, probably carrying a substantial fine plus probation or community service, most people figure they won't get caught and are willing to take the risk.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13221
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Wed May 21, 2003 4:10 am

DWI gurantees a minimum of 6 month license suspension, I think the Feds force States to go along with this policy by threatening to withdraw Federal Highway money.

The are first time "criminal discharges" which if busted DWI or in Possesion of a small amount of Marajuana you have the opportunity to have your record "espounged" of the charges if you stay out of trouble for 1 year's time.

However during that time period your license will be revoked, minimum six months.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Guy Goes Mental With Steel Pipe In Sweden

Wed May 21, 2003 4:23 am

DWI gurantees a minimum of 6 month license suspension, I think the Feds force States to go along with this policy by threatening to withdraw Federal Highway money.
The are first time "criminal discharges" which if busted DWI or in Possesion of a small amount of Marajuana you have the opportunity to have your record "espounged" of the charges if you stay out of trouble for 1 year's time.
However during that time period your license will be revoked, minimum six months.


I didn't realize that there were now mandatory suspensions for people using the first-offender DWI programs. It's been almost ten years since I worked in the criminal courts system. Even so, it really doesn't matter, because most people just keep on driving, suspension or not.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests