David_itl
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Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 12:26 am


The Chancellor of the Exchequer has stated that 4 out of the 5 tests that he had set for Britain to get ready for a referendum on the Euro have not been met, but there is a possibility of having it next year instead (with Euro becoming the currency around 2009?).

More details on the BBC website story

David

 
MONARCH
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 1:14 am

Yet again we see the Government hiding away from the fact that Britain needs and wants a referendem!

Vote No!
 
gkirk
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 1:49 am

Hopefully we will stay out of the Euro forever.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
f.pier
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 2:13 am

I agree, I hope you to stay out forever.

The UK is too far from the European Union.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 2:17 am

I agree, I hope you to stay out forever.

The UK is too far from the European Union


And this coming from an Italian.  Yeah sure
In Arsene we trust!!
 
MONARCH
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 2:18 am

Yeah, Europe are weak and feable anyway! Just wait until they ask the USA for help. Thank God Sweden so far, have said no to the Euro!

Vote No!
 
777236ER
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 2:21 am

Five posts in an people are already sprouting non-sensical opinions based on xenophobia, personal hatred of the EU/a fetish of the EU, emotional links to a currency (!) and very very few actual facts.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
f.pier
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 2:29 am

Sincerely I can't understand why the UK doesn't leave the EU.

I can't understand why you entered. I sincerely think you entered just to avoid Europe to become a federal country and you're doing it in a good way.

Now I would like to make a question about the Euro, but not about UK/Euro.

Uk people, do you like that the EU states noe have the Euro?
 
aloges
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 2:43 am

Referendum or whatever, letting the people chose whether to join the ECU or not is democratic. If the British don't want the Euro, nobody should force them to it.

As for myself, I loved going to Venice without having to change money, without passport controls, without customs... So I guess I love the EU, even though it's so bureaucratic.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 3:47 am

Referendum or whatever, letting the people chose whether to join the ECU or not is democratic. If the British don't want the Euro, nobody should force them to it.

Exactly. Giving up your national currency is giving up a piece of your national independence. Britons should have a referendum on this. Sweden is sked for one this fall & the Swedes are expected to say no.

The primary problem with adopting the Euro is that the UK will lose control of its monetary policy which could cause extremes in economic performance with an exchange rate determined by bureaucrats in Brussels or Frankfurt as opposed to London. Since the UK can be booming while Germany is in recession (or the reverse), a common currency carries some risk. At any rate, the Euro is likely to become a de facto "2nd or unofficial" currency in the UK anyway evn if the pound is retained.




I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
donder10
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 3:50 am

I agree, I hope you to stay out forever.

The UK is too far from the European Union
Ironically,it was because of the profligate nature of the Italian government,that German (ironically now)on the Growth and Stability Pact.You're dislike the Brits is irrelevant on such an economic matter.The UK joining the Euro would be a boost to the Euro's long-term success.
The main issue is whether the loss of our own monetary (and to a certain and increasing extent,fiscal policy)outweighs the advantages of no currency fluctuations from where over 50% of our exports go.At the moment,I do not believe the UK economy would fit the straightjacket of the '1 size fits all' interest rates as our inflation is slightly higher and our economy is doing better than most of the Eurozone's economies-without excessive pump priming too.The ECB also has too low an inflation target resulting in higher interest rates than the inflation target the BOE has.The BOE(like the Fed Reserve)seems a lot more proactive than the ECB,interestingly as Germany gets close to a Japanese deflation-recession trap.
The Eurozone economies also have labour markets that are too rigid,hindering long term economic growth.Ireland has probably the most flexible market in the EU and is seeing economic growth rates that are much higher than that of most of the Eurozone.This,however,is a long term issue and contains political as well as economic issues.
It seems increasingly likely to me that some countries joined the Euro for political not economic reasons.I do not want the mistake to be repeated here.If the UK economy clicks in with the EU economy in terms of the business cycle for a sustained period of time then it would make sense to join and we should join.Currently it doesn't and we shouldn't,EU politics aside.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:20 am

Here's a good analogy. Canada's economy is far more integrated into the US economy than the UK economy is into Europe's. 87% of Canada's exports go to the US....and yet Canada retains its own (floating) currency. There is no serious policy option in Canada to adopt the US dollar though.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
sebolino
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:40 am

Funny how anti-EU use any arguments to back their opinions.

Monarch: The currency of a country doesn't determine his foreign politics, but it seems to be a national game in Anglo-Saxon countries to mix all the problems and period of history.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:41 am

it seems to be a national game in Anglo-Saxon countries to mix all the problems and period of history.

It was anglo-saxons that rescued your country from the horrors of German occupation in 2 world wars.......so we're not all bad.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:45 am

The loss of monetory policy and being unable to set our own interests is *THE* main concern among the British public, economists, politicians etc. Being unable set our own interests to adjust and be flexible with regards to our economy is a dangerous asset to lose. Suppose for example in 10 years the UK is where Germany is right now, on the brink of recession, and the Bank of England is unable control interest rates for Britain. This is a major sticking point, setting interest rates is not the be all and end all, but it is crucial part of our economic control which we should not give up so easily.

Right now, the Eurozone is stuck in neutral, unable to grow or move, while the British and Swedish economies (suprise suprise, 2 countries outside the eurozone) are literally booming, the housing market is up in the UK, unemployment rate is at it's lowest in decades and the Sterling is still performing well against the Euro. The one-size-fit's-all policy policy of setting interest rates for 12 different economies is simply absurd.

Economically and financially it would foolish for the UK to join the Euro now, it is no coincidence that Britain is doing well outside the eurozone, economists and financial experts predict would Britain would do well to stay out of the Eurozone for the next few years, this is why Gordon Brown gave a "No, not yet" verdict.

All in all, you shouldn't fix something that's not broken.


In Arsene we trust!!
 
aloges
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:45 am

"It was anglo-saxons that rescued your country from the horrors of German occupation in 2 world wars.......so we're not all bad."

Ugh. What does WWII have to do with that? Hell, that war ended (in Europe) 58 years, 1 month and one day ago, there was that thing called "Cold War" after it and some people still think Hitler's "efforts" are the most important thing when it comes to international relations. Please, we Euros don't say "be grateful for manning your country", do we?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
aloges
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:48 am

Arsenal, if that policy is so absurd, how come that Ireland and Finland are doing quite well, too?

"All in all, you shouldn't fix something that's not broken."

That is correct, and the one and only decisive argument against Britain adopting the Euro.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 6:14 am

Arsenal, if that policy is so absurd, how come that Ireland and Finland are doing quite well, too?

You can nitpick here and there, but the underlying trend is there to see for everyone. One of the 5 economic tests Gordon Brown set out was Convergence, which is the alignment of the British economy to the Eurozone, this simply has not happened and and joining the single currency now will almost certainly cause problems down the line for the UK in regards to jobs, interest rates, taxes etc. The UK economy is flexible and dynamic, it mirrors the US economy but on a smaller scale, this is another key point, the marrying of the UK economy with the eurozone. Economies in the eurozone simply don't have the flexibility, dynamism and growth which the UK has now, and until that happens i don't see why we have to join the single currency.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
aloges
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 6:39 am

"The UK economy is flexible and dynamic (...) dynamism and growth..." Oh how I wish... From this somewhat neoliberalist standpoint, which old leftie me happens to adore sometimes, it wouldn't only be unreasonable for the UK to enter the Eurozone, but it would be absurd.

The UK has always been eager to stress its independence and sovereignty, and placed its bets rather Liberté than Fraternité, which proves to be a succesful mix today. That "welfare state" kind of talking going on here in Germany would probably be looked at as hilarious or even ridiculous in the UK. The problem is that the EU is headed in a similar direction of nanny and welfare state, and I understand very well why many "Brits" are so reluctant to like it.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
donder10
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 7:43 am

That "welfare state" kind of talking going on here in Germany would probably be looked at as hilarious or even ridiculous in the UK. The problem is that the EU is headed in a similar direction of nanny and welfare state, and I understand very well why many "Brits" are so reluctant to like it.
Which again shows the inflexibility of the German labour market,hence the 10%+ unemployment.
 
racko
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 8:09 am

You had a Maggie who cut off much of the power the unions had, we still have to find our personal Thatcher to tell the Sommers and Bsirskes to shut up. As surprising as it is, Schröder has made a step in the right direction, against the massive protests from the union. Thank god we don't have the strike culture of France...
 
paulc
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 3:27 pm

The whole concept of the EU needs to be debated in the UK, after all it has grown from a common market idea of free trade between nations to a largely unelected, unaccountable, corrupt bureaucracy. This may not actually be the case (unlikely) but it is the perception of the british people that it is - all we ever seem to hear about are laws imposed on us by the eu that other countries ignore if they do not like them, if criminals do not like a verdict then they can go to the european courts and often get a ruling overturned. It is things like that which are undermining the right of self goverment and why the uk is deemed to be 'anti europe'

The eu is run for the benefit of the french and germans and the rest are supporting players.

When the ECB cut interest rates last week - which country will benefit the most (hint begins with G)

The euro is a small part in the overall project of a United States of Europe and the sooner the UK gets out, the better.

English First, British Second, european Never!
 
saintsman
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:02 pm

Personally I think that it is not the financial reasons why the UK population does not want a single currency but rather the fact that we percieve that we do not get a good deal by being in Europe. The feeling is that it costs us more by being in the EC than it would standing on our own and that there are far too many meddling rules that disrupt our normal way of life. That logic may be flawed but come a vote thats the logic that will be used.
 
buckfifty
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Bei

Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:26 pm

You know, if the English Channel was filled in many moons ago, and people were free to walk on dry land between Dover and Calais, I think they would have voted yes to the Euro by now.

Let's face it. No matter how many times you put forth practical arguments against the Euro, the fact is, there really are none...
 
FDXmech
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:06 pm

>>>Sincerely I can't understand why the UK doesn't leave the EU.<<<

That's a job for plate tectonics.



You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Banco
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 6:16 pm

Buckfifty, that's one of the most ludicrous comments on the Euro that I've heard! No practical arguments against the Euro? They are many and numerous. Economically, the Euro is a terrible idea, for all Germany's reluctance to embrace structural change, the fact remains that they have one of the key fiscal instruments removed, which would ease their plight. The same applies to France and to Italy. Ireland and Portugal, might be "doing well", but the interest rate of the Euro is far too low, and the spectre of inflation exists there. A single exchange rate is harming all the Eurozone economies, not helping them. On top of that, the appreciation of the currency is devastating exports outside the Eurozone, and there is very little that the member states can do.

As for Britain joining, well one issue that hasn't been raised is whether it would be good for the Eurozone. Right now, only a fool would say the UK should jon. Britian does require higher interest rates than any of the other key states, and it is likely that were Britain to join, the Eurozone interest rate would go up, as Britian would be 20% of the Eurozone economy. For Germany, France and Italy, this would be a catastrophe.

Europe did not create and join the Euro for economic reasons, it would be crazy to do so, they did it for political ones, to bind the constituent countries ever closer together. That's fair enough, and if you want that, then good lick to you. But don't tell us it is an economic project, it certainly isn't. The whole concept of the currency requires closer tax harmonisation, cloer social policy, and so on - effectively a single European state at the economic level. Again, if you want that, then it makes perfect sense. But if you don't want that, then joining the Euro is a very bad idea indeed.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 7:22 pm

You know, if the English Channel was filled in many moons ago, and people were free to walk on dry land between Dover and Calais, I think they would have voted yes to the Euro by now.

Well it isn't.

Let's face it. No matter how many times you put forth practical arguments against the Euro, the fact is, there really are none...

And you form this opinion 10,000 miles away? On what basis?
Complete rubbish! The anti-Euro argument is far stronger and far more plausible than pro-Euro arguments. The reasons for not joining the single currency far outweigh the benefits of joining (which are few and far between) The "No, not yet" verdict was spot on, the time is simply not right. In the end, joining the Euro is about politics and political ambitions, not economics, and while the 5 economic tests which was the largest, most intense study carried out in British politics were a step in the right direction and which something the Eurozones countries should have done before signing up to the Euro, it is by no means the sole basis for joining the Euro. In the end, politics will play the ultimate role in the decision to join or not.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
ryanb741
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Tue Jun 10, 2003 8:40 pm

Without giving any of my reasons - whilst I don't like the idea of Britain adopting the Euro, in the long term it would be of benefit for us and the EU if we did. It is inevitable anyway that we will join - just wait till the pound starts to fall and then people will be looking at the Euro in a 'the grass is greener on the other side' light
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
travelin man
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 1:51 am

It seems that the EU would have been better off remaining an economic alliance, rather than this Frankenstein of an effort to consolidate economic, political, and military power in Brussels (and you know that this is where it's heading).

Why must the UK join the Euro? So British tourists won't have to go to money changers when visiting the Continent? And in return for that privilege, they get to lose control of their monetary policy? I think I'd stick to visiting my local currency changer....
 
bobrayner
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 1:56 am

Personally, I think that the UK would be better off inside the Euro, although joining tomorrow would not be optimal.

I also think that, whilst the Eurozone is generally sound, some people need a damn good kicking.

1. France should stop teaching school-leavers that their value to the economy is directly proportional to the disruption they can cause when striking (which is an inalienable right).

2. Italy - I have one word for you. Berlusconi.

3. Belgium? Don't even get me started...

Flamebait? Moi?  Smile
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aloges
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 2:00 am

Most of you people say that the Euro is not the best of ideas because the ECU countries aren't tied enough, economically. So would you favour the UK joining the ECU more if those ties were strengthened? That's one of the things I hope to see happen in my lifetime, leading to something like the US of E.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 2:16 am

Even if it remains outside the Euro, the Euro will still likely become the de facto 2nd currency in the UK with all vendors etc accepting Euros and pounds in due course.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
swake
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 2:40 am

Hey you Brits are right!! Without the EU Sabena would still be around!! Naaaaaahh
 
Klaus
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 9:48 am

You´re missing out... And you´ll probably find out what you´re missing when it´s almost too late - as always.

Germany and France have certainly been the motor of the EU all along (with important contributions by many other nations). But it´s equally obvious that Britain´s position has always been the parking brake - and one that´s frequently stuck, at that.

Always afraid, always eager to keep the distance from the "commoners" on the continent and rarely with a constructive contribution.

Maybe it´s time to start looking beyond the aggressively prejudiced anti-EU propaganda, for a change. Rupert Murdoch - as an ex-australian-turned-american - can hardly be the the reference for impartial information on this matter...

The EU is not just about the economy - and that´s a good thing!  Big thumbs up
 
paulc
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 3:05 pm

Banco,

the germans still have the ECB in their pocket - after all the cut in interest rates a few days ago will help the german economy rather than anybody elses,
so much for one interest rate suiting all in euroland. A good way to describe the ECB relationship with the euroland countries is a bit like communism - ie all are equal but some are more equal than others.

There are a lot of things that need to happen before the UK should consider joining the euro - ie reform of ECB, more accountability, clean up of corruption, hell freezing over etc....

English first, British 2nd, european never
English First, British Second, european Never!
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:00 pm

Once again the UK has proven that is indeed America's Trojan Horse/Donkey in Europe.

-Roy
 
sebolino
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:54 pm

The international investors show their confidence in the Euro, the high level of the currency is the consequence of that. Of course it's because they have some fears on the US economy, but it's not the pound or the Yen that benefit of it. Before the Euro, it would have been mainly the Deutsche Mark (for the Europe part), and the other European currencies would have fallen.

It's not entirely positive of course, because the European competitivity is lowered by the high Euro, but in the long term it's highly positive because there is a huge amount of cash available for investments in Euro-land.
 
aloges
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:33 pm

"English first, British 2nd, european never"

I see: "That's a job for plate tectonics."



But you don't expect us Continentals to like you Brits if you look at it this way, do you?

[Edited 2003-06-11 12:34:39]
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Andreas
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:53 pm

Ok PaulC, everybody can see clearly that you are anti-European and especially anti-German.
Very well, in a free world you have every right to state your opinion.

But if you chose to do so, then maybe you should take care in the choice of your words:

Quote: the germans still have the ECB in their pocket - after all the cut in interest rates a few days ago will help the german economy rather than anybody elses

Given the current economic situation, this is one of the stupidest statements concerning the ECB I've ever read:

What did you expect them to do? There is a so-called economic cycle currently running at the low point, inflation is factually non-existent, what should they have done in your expert opinion...just tell me, I'm curious!

They are independent, they were, they are and they will be, as the German Bundesbank, which clearly was the archetype the EU had in mind when they created the ECB. This was often challenged by politicians in Germany and elsewhere, but it is, and it is good as it is!

So please don't talk about things you have obviously no clue about!

Quote: so much for one interest rate suiting all in euroland. A good way to describe the ECB relationship with the euroland countries is a bit like communism - ie all are equal but some are more equal than others.

Basically a sound statement, but next time stop before the last part about equal etc...that's as ridiculous as it comes!

There are a lot of things that need to happen before the UK should consider joining the euro - ie reform of ECB, more accountability, clean up of corruption, hell freezing over etc....

OHO...do I read this as "Britain is a reformed (whatever that means), accountable and corruption-free country as opposed to Europe?

I hope not, because that would be nonsense of the highest order, and just plain nationalistic hogwash...save that for the next election campagn.

And remember you are not one bit superior to other European countries (inferior to some, when we talk about football Big grin), even if you don't like it, days of Commonwealth and Colonialism are over and you've done more than enough damage in those days to keep a bit more quiet nowadays!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 9:04 pm

You´re missing out... And you´ll probably find out what you´re missing when it´s almost too late - as always

Well if missing out on record unemployment, frozen/one-size-fit's-all interest rates, slow growth (or no growth), recession, high prices is the way to go, then so be it. I really don't see what you're trying to sell us in regards to the single currency, it's not working right now and it's causing more problems than answers. We are absolutely right that we aren't joining the Euro anytime in the foreseeable future simply because it would be wrong to do so economically and financially. The trend is there to see, countries outside the Eurozone are doing mighty fine (Sweden/UK/Norway), this is no coincidence and not a one-time thing.

The fact that Britain has done this intense study/investigation into the pro's and con's of the Euro is a highly commendable thing, how many other EU states have actually thought about the repurcussions of the Euro before they undemocratically threw away their national currency?

This is nothing to do with nationalism, sovereignty or dislike of foreigners, it's about evaluating the the circumstances of giving up your national currency in favour of an ambitious, untries/untested single currency. The biggest decision Britain will make since the end of WW2, and it beggars belief how other EU states fumbled their way into the single currency without debate, dialogue or a referendum.

Indianguy, wot u been smoking lately?
In Arsene we trust!!
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 9:07 pm

But you don't expect us Continentals to like you Brits if you look at it this way, do you?

What's wrong with you continentals? Many of us like to be English first, British second and "European" third, many like to British first, english second and European never. It's one's choice.
Are you telling me you're European first and German second? Are you proud to be German? Cos European is not a nationality, it's geographical area.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
Andreas
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 9:17 pm

Arsenal, just one hint:

Deutsche Bank Chief economist Norbert Walter said in an interview that these tests are from a scientific point of view highly questionable...and he used some much stronger vocabulary!! He said these tests were tailor-made to prove "no to the Euro".

Just to make myself clear:

I didn't look at those tests myself.
I just read the interview.
Norbert Walter is a very cautious man as far as the Euro is concerned, he doesn't say that without thinking.
Deutsche Bank is just German by name, from a business and management point of view, it's rather English.
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
aloges
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RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 9:18 pm

"Are you telling me you're European first and German second?"

Yes, I am. Look at my profile.

"Are you proud to be German?"

Nope. How could I be proud of a thing I didn't achieve, but was born into (literally)?

"Cos European is not a nationality, it's geographical area."

I don't give a thing about nationality, national pride and nations themselves. Why's it important to live in one nation but not the other when you're happy with your life? For example: why should there be a Basque nation state if the people can live happily in Spain and France? Nationalism is what makes wars begin, and yes, I hate oaths of allegiance. I'm going where I can live the best of lives, be it Europe, America, the Middle East or whatever.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
paulc
Posts: 1440
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2001 10:42 pm

RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 9:22 pm

Anti eu and anti euro - yes but not necessarily anti german - I will be there tomorrow  Smile and it will be interesting to see how much more it will cost me now the euro is in place. (ps have been to germany many times - how many times have you been to the UK?)

So it is not true that the interest rate cut will help the german economy then?? so whose economy will benefit from it then?? and more importantly whose will not (Eire/Portugal to name 2)
THe ECB also set up various rules on spending/borrowing etc - are these being adheared to by all euro members???? - if yes then fine but if not, are the rules being ignored. Are you really saying that the ecb will ignore the wishes of the german goverment (if sufficient pressure is applied) given that it is based in germany with (I expect( the majority of workers being german.

As for the UK being more accountable - we have a general election every 4 or 5 years where the party in power can be thrown out of office, local elections that apply to counties etc.

Are there plans for the EU commissioners or any senior eu official to be elected by the people whose interests they are supposed to represent.

As for corruption - I am not saying the UK is squeaky clean but at least we do not get former ministers going parachuting without a parachute, or senior Belusconi of Italy who is facing corruption charges, jacques chiraq who would also be facing criminal charges were he not president of france.

As for EU corruption - weren't the commissioners all forced to resign a couple of years ago as an attempt to clean up the eu image - has it worked though??
Unlikely, especially when the lady auditor brought in to investigate these allegations was also sacked - probably because they did not like what she was saying.

As for football - we beat you when it really mattered in 1966. We also beat germany in 1918 and 1945 when again it really mattered.

Perhaps we should get some input from any swedish people here - after all they are in a similar position to the UK with regard to the euro.





English First, British Second, european Never!
 
Andreas
Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm

RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 9:24 pm

Aloges, I couldn't have said it better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Arsenal, that may be something you as a Brit will not easily understand, but quite a few things have changed in Germany after WW II, and I'm pretty glad that is so!!

...and no, I'm not proud to be German either...why should I? I had nothing to do with the sheer fact that I'm German! So why be proud?
(except when we talk about football, but then I am more anti-Brit actually Big grin Big grin Big grin)
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 9:28 pm

Yes, I am. Look at my profile

Well that's truly amazing. You call yourself an entity which does not exist! Tell me, what does your passport say? You can't suddenly start changing the rules and change your nationality to what suits you best. And as far as concerned, you are German!! then European. I find it strange that some people can go as far as claiming nationality doesn't exist or that nationality is nothing and means nothing, they remind me of the atheists, they don't believe in any religion, dont believe in God, yet they can't explain how the Universe and humancivilisation evolved!  Nuts

I see that patriotism and the love of your country doesn't exist, that's your choice, but for everyone else, nationality and a individual sense of indentity is important.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 9:43 pm

My passport says

"Europäische Union

Bundesrepublik
Deutschland"

which means "European Union, Federal Republic of Germany" So it's European first, German second. Big grin

As for nationality, you know that every EU citizen is citizen of his country and the EU, don't you? If else, we couldn't elect one common parliament.

"You can't suddenly start changing the rules and change your nationality to what suits you best."

I can apply for Green Cards, for foreign cizienships and in the EU, I can move, live and work everywhere I want. So I don't need to start changing rules, but I can do what I want. That's one reason for loving the EU, it's an entity (yes it is one) that has opened space from Lapland to Lisbon for its citizens, and they don't even need to leave the road to go from one to the other.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Andreas
Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm

RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 9:46 pm

Quote:Anti eu and anti euro - yes but not necessarily anti german

no but unnecessarily so, quite obviously!

Quote: how many times have you been to the UK?

About every other week for a few days, I work for a British investment bank!
Can you follow me there?

So it is not true that the interest rate cut will help the german economy then?? so whose economy will benefit from it then??

Yes and....? Does the ECB have to take measures that damage the economy of one member country??? What are you talking about? The interest policy has been extremely restrictive lately, because of inflation, and the ECB's only task is to fight inflation! Now they go with international trends, and guess what, the Euro didn't stop on its way up, funny isn't it?

And besides, Germany needs to fight depression, which is much more important to the EU as a whole and all other member states as well than just changes in the interest rates.


Quote: THe ECB also set up various rules on spending/borrowing etc - are these being adheared to by all euro members???? - if yes then fine but if not, are the rules being ignored.

And what does that mean now? That Germany ignore rules??? Please prove any such statement before making it!

Quote: Are you really saying that the ecb will ignore the wishes of the german goverment (if sufficient pressure is applied) given that it is based in germany with (I expect( the majority of workers being german.

That is about as dumb as it comes: YES it will ignore the wishes of the German government, as did the Bundesbank for decades before, and those were all Germans!!!

And the workers come from all EU countries, same as in EU bureaucracy, proportionally to tghe weight of the member states. germans are therefore NOT the majority, and what if...are German secretaries and security guards responsible for monetary decisions???

One hint: Don't believe propaganda, mostly it's wrong and stupid, as can be clearly seen here in your post!


Quote: As for the UK being more accountable - we have a general election every 4 or 5 years where the party in power can be thrown out of office, local elections that apply to counties etc.

My my, we bloody Germans...still monarchistic or nazis by heart, is that what you want to say?
Well surprise surprise: we elect, too...every 4 years, now what do you say?


Quote: As for corruption - I am not saying the UK is squeaky clean but at least we do not get former ministers going parachuting without a parachute, or senior Belusconi of Italy who is facing corruption charges, jacques chiraq who would also be facing criminal charges were he not president of france.

RIDICULOUS!!! No, your government members go to brothels and when one of the ladies tells her story to the Sun, he gets sacked, or they get paid by sinister persons or whatever you like...Good Lord I can't believe what I'm reading here. Paulc, grow up please and turn on your brain, it's really ridiculous what you are trying to say here!!!


Quote:As for EU corruption - weren't the commissioners all forced to resign a couple of years ago as an attempt to clean up the eu image - has it worked though??Unlikely, especially when the lady auditor brought in to investigate these allegations was also sacked - probably because they did not like what she was saying.

Yes paulC, that indicates that those in Bruxelles are not better than other people around the world, but you just tried to tell us that Brits are better than the rest of Europe!

Quote: As for football - we beat you when it really mattered in 1966.

Yes by cheating, most british football fans know that by now and even admit it...and we payed you back several times by now Big grin

Quote: We also beat germany in 1918 and 1945 when again it really mattered.

Yes thanks for that! But that's what indicates that you are completely clueless, if nothing else holds, then get back into history and see what we find there...very relevant when trying to judge the current economic situation inside the EU...and you probably were one of the first who damned Germany for being against war in Iraq, am I right?
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 10:40 pm

My passport say's

European Union
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland



It's a British passport, i am a holder of a British passport, making me a British citizen. Having the words "Euroepean Union" meas nothing to me, what part of that don't you understand?
In Arsene we trust!!
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being

Wed Jun 11, 2003 10:54 pm

Huh? When did this start to be about understanding or not understanding something? I get what you mean, perfectly, and all I meant to do was expressing that having the words "Europäische Union" printed on my passport means a thing to me. I never had the intention of convincing you of anything or of "reversing your polarity".
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.

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