airworthy
Posts: 752
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 7:05 am

What Web Language To Learn?

Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:48 am

If I was going to make a website like a.net, what web languages would I have to learn HTML, XML, or Java?
 
JAL777
Posts: 2453
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:13 pm

RE: What Web Language To Learn?

Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:51 am

All of them. But you could build a pretty good site just out of HTML and PHP.
 
Shawn Patrick
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 7:30 am

RE: What Web Language To Learn?

Tue Jun 24, 2003 9:46 am

You'd need to know HTML (always), some Java, and probably ASP. Also, you'll need to learn ALL about MySQL databases and its integration with whatever language you use for the pages (biatch of a task, people get paid $xxx,xxx to do that shit).

To tell you the truth, I have no idea what a.net is built on... but I suspect it's ASP and SQL, but possibly an older database system.

The web is an ever-changing thing. Entire new languages pop up all the time, and that's the depressing part...

BUT, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

While a.net is pretty complicated code-wise, look at jetphotos.net. The system works almost as good as a.net, but it just uses PHP with MySQL for the database. Given that you're dedicated to learning what it takes to create a site like this, and you have the time, you could do it, although it could take awhile...

Shawn
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: What Web Language To Learn?

Tue Jun 24, 2003 10:23 am

You said "a website", so you don't want to become a professional?

Well, HTML is not really a programming language and easy to learn. HTML-editors such as Dreamweaver or GoLive even come with the most frequently used JavaScript functions. However you will still need knowledge in both - HTML and JavaScript (not Java!). So basics in HTML and JavaScript (in this order!) come first.

For access to databases I would suggest PHP and MySQL. PHP is very similar to JavaScript and there are many ressources spread all over the net. Same with ActionScript for Flash Player Movies: very similar to both JavaScript and PHP.

That's plenty .. don't give up now  Big grin (and forget Java for webpages like this).

Regards,
NoUFO - Freelance web-producer since 1998.
I support the right to arm bears
 
Qb001
Posts: 1923
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 12:42 am

RE: What Web Language To Learn?

Tue Jun 24, 2003 10:35 am

No, do not forget about Java for website like this. The only reason you should forget about Java is if you're not already familiar with a modern programming language. Otherwise, if you know one, such as C/C++ or PASCAL/Delphi or Visual Basic, then Java is the way to go.

With Java you can build a pretty powerful, database-driven, scalable website entirely for free. Java is free, an IDE, such as NetBeans ,is free, a Java server, such as Resin, is free (a donation is preferable) and the database, such as MySQL, is free (there again, a donation is preferable). Furthermore, there are tons of websites and discussion groups offering help about Java, for free.

PHP is your second choice, but is not as scalable as Java. Forget about ASP, the cost of ownership is prohibitive and it's not that powerful.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: What Web Language To Learn?

Tue Jun 24, 2003 10:46 am

That's right, but the OOP-approach of Java is different; Java is no script language like JavaScript or PHP. I'm positive, Airworthy will see results sooner with the approach I suggested, because JavaScript, PHP and ActionScript (if needed) are so similar and comparatively easy to learn. No offense, but I was indeed thinking Airworthy is not familiar with any programming language.

Forget about ASP, the cost of ownership is prohibitive

I second that. I'm not familiar with ASP but AFAIK PHP can do the same (and in doubt: more) and it's free.

NoUFO
I support the right to arm bears
 
Shawn Patrick
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 7:30 am

RE: What Web Language To Learn?

Tue Jun 24, 2003 10:53 am

>>>Forget about ASP, the cost of ownership is prohibitive<<<

Could you explain?
 
Qb001
Posts: 1923
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 12:42 am

RE: What Web Language To Learn?

Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:04 am

ASP is a framework that is part of the Microsoft Visual Studio environment. To run a website with ASP, it means that you own a license for that environment first, and that costs a lot. Furthermore, if you want to make your website more dynamic, it means you'll have to pay for MS SQL Server, and that too, is expensive.

Consider that with the possibility of running a more powerful website, using Java and MySQL, for free...

Java is not a scripting language, which is exactly the reason why it's more powerful. As one of my university teacher once told me: "You can learn to pilot a Cessna. It will take you 50 hours to learn. You'll be flying 80 kts at 3000ft. Or you can learn to pilot a jet fighter. It will take you 2 to 3 years. But you'll be flying at Mach 2 at 50000ft". It other words, the most powerful tools are always tougher to learn, but it's always worth it.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
Shawn Patrick
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 7:30 am

RE: What Web Language To Learn?

Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:19 am

Oh yeah that's true, I never thought of that though, since I have (legal) free access to this software.

Interesting twist on your statement:

"You can learn to pilot a Cessna for $5000. You'll be flying 80 kts at 3000ft. Or you can learn to pilot a jet fighter. It will take you $50,000, but you'll be flying at Mach 2 at 50,000 ft."

Of course, the argument of how many features each provides... this is valid. But take into account that an astonishing amount (majority?) of major commercial websites are built around ASP. ASP is rock solid, that's why it's not free.

Shawn
 
Qb001
Posts: 1923
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 12:42 am

RE: What Web Language To Learn?

Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:27 am

The majority of websites in the world are not build around ASP. The majority of websites are run on Linux or Sun stations, that do not support ASP. In order, it's probably something like simple HTML, PERL, Java, ASP, PHP, others. And I think PHP will surpass ASP soon, PERL and even, someday, Java (which is the preferred choice for building new professional websites).

In my professional life, I've seen many companies starting their websites with ASP and run away from it as soon as they needed more from their websites than displaying simple HTML pages.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: What Web Language To Learn?

Tue Jun 24, 2003 9:51 pm

My preferred tools are Java (and particularly JSP and Servlets) sprinkled with deliberate amounts of CSS, XML and XSLT.
Of course driven by a powerful database engine (any will do that you have access to and has a decent JDBC driver available).

If I'd have to work on an all free basis (heck, I've done just that...):
- Tomcat (or Orion if it's a non-commercial project)
- Firebird (open source version of Borland Interbase, which is an extremely powerful database and far superior to mySQL in both stability/speed and scalability)
- Xerces and Xalan for XML/XSLT processing
- maybe a framework like Struts (or roll your own, depending on your skills, needs, etc.).

all this will run on a PC driven by Windows or Linux no problem, but can scale easily to Solaris or HP-9000 systems.

The most expensive I've been involved with so far:
- Silverstream 3.7.5 app server
- Silverstream portal server 1.2
- Oracle 8i
- 2 HP-9000N series servers to run it all
That's about a million Euro to run a website (compared to maybe a thousand for the cheapest solution).
I wish I were flying

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