Since the Iraq airline thread in civil Av forum is now locked, I want to ask this question.

Why do so many Euro's hate America?

No beating around the boat, no waiting for a chance to snipe at the US.

Just tell us the truth about your hating the US of A.

[Edited 2003-07-10 22:46:54]

Maybe cause so many American's insist Euros hate America?

I have the best of both (well three!) worlds. I'm Euromericasian. 

As a person who is a proud American I can still easily say this....I think its pretty obvious why Europe (and a lot of the world's population) hates the US. There are too many reasons to count.

Euros don't hate America. They just hate a lot of the ignorance and stupidity of some Americans that unfortunatly has too much power.

Just look at some of the right-wingers in these forums. Can you blame them?

North County:

"Why do so many Euro's hate America?"

As far as I know, not many Europeans (I don't call you yanks) actually hate Americans, as I don't know either many Germans really hating Italians, to give you a recent similarity!

Rather than hatred, it's a dislike of American leaders and American Politics in general, that isn't very well accepted in Europe.

Flyf15:

"As a person who is a proud American I can still easily say this....I think its pretty obvious why Europe (and a lot of the world's population) hates the US. There are too many reasons to count."

Care to name just a few of these 'obvious' reasons?

I don't take offense to Yank. It is much more civil then some of the things we have been called on these boards.

[Edited 2003-07-10 23:12:35]

I don't think that many Europeans hate the United States. I think a few do hate us and they pipe up at every possible opportunity. Further bashing of the United States is a leading hobby of the "chattering classes" all over the world.

Superfly,

Why don't you cut out the blanket villification of "right-wingers"? For a self-professed "liberal", you are awfully intolerant of those that disagree with your cynical views.

On what basis and on what facts do you come to the conclusion that "Euro's" hate America? Or are you making your judgement simply by reading these forums?

N79969:
Just as Schoenorama pointed out above, the Europeans dislike some or leaders and our politics right now. Who are the Americans supporting our current leader? It ain't 'liberals' that's for sure.

you are awfully intolerant of those that disagree with your cynical views

I am 'intolerant' of intolerant people. I am a very accepting individual.

BTW
If the 'Euros' really hated America so much, there wouldn't be daily flights to and from America by BA, Air France, Iberia, Lufthansa, SAS, Aeroflot, Olympic, etc.. as well as US carriers.  

Oh, I guess the numerous negative comments leads me to think that some of them hate America.

How could I forget the mention the protests in March.

Superfly,

The numerous flights just mean people have to cross the pond. Could be on business.

Superfly:

"I am 'intolerant' of intolerant people. "

A nice sounding but entirely bogus mantra of the ideological left.

I don't buy what you are saying. I have read many, many of your posts. You are about as tolerant as Tom DeLay of ideas that conflict with your own.

I think you say you don't dislike all Republicans and list George Ryan as an example. He was a pretty corrupt governor.

The Muslim world must love us as well: Saudia, Egypt Air, Royal Jordanian, PIA, and soon Emirates serve the United States.

******************

Anyway, I think the Europeans dislike our President as a group but not the country. They did not like Reagan either. Overall, I think the cultural affinity between the US and Europe remains strong.

[Edited 2003-07-10 23:35:57]

N79969:
We can go around in circles on this whole left/right stuff but I'd rather not.
I am getting a good laugh out of all of this because this is the first time I've been compared to Tom Delay!  

George Ryan corrupt?
I suppose the Bushman is squeeky clean.  


Anyway, I think the Europeans dislike our President as a group but not the country. They did not like Reagan either. Overall, I think the cultural affinity between the US and Europe remains strong.

Agreed.

Superfly: Euros don't hate America. They just hate a lot of the ignorance and stupidity of some Americans that unfortunatly has too much power.

That´s pretty much it!  

At the same time, you´re reminding us of the reasons why most of us love your country!  

North County - because you are not looking at it from both sides, you don't see any Europeans saying 'why do so many yanks hate Europe?' do you? Yet just the same if not more Americans seem to hate America or do everything you say we do to you.

Its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Just look at both point of views before you point the finger.

EGGD,

Please start a thread asking why Americans hate Europe. I would not mind seeing such a thread.

I only asked the question... I didn't write the posts of others.

It is very common in the US to air it all out and get to the root of the matter.

Right or wrong - Everyone has a right to their point of view.

It's better then another Boeing vs. Airbus thread.

Klaus:
Thanks Klaus.

We don't hate you. We don't hate your country - spectacular in its natural beauty and in its cities and history. We hate your current government and president who take the p..s out of you and your fellow Americans as much as they do the rest of the world. Difference is, we recognise when we are getting it ripped out of us.

I hate certain people within the United States who believe that they and America are 100% bulletproof and are god's gift to mankind. This supreme arrogance makes most other foreign nationals want to puke. I'm not saying everyone in the US is like this - indeed the US is a land of great diversity. But it seems that a small, arrogant group of very loud Americans who tend to travel an awful lot to other countries - love to have their opinions on anything heard by anyone in the surrounding area.

That said - there is nothing more appealing than a modest American. I truly mean that.

QANTASFOREVER(Yes, I know I'm not European)

We don't hate your people or your country, we hate your general ignorance and narrow mindedness towards the rest of the world and the way your government thinks it can throw its weight around and be the worlds poilice because they are the only "Superpower".

We also hate the way your government can be so 2 faced and pick and choose what rules/regulations it wants to break/support in it's favour, then complaines when other countries do the same back to them - like the prisoners of war in Iraq/Cuba for example.

We also hate the way your government claims that it is doing things 'for Human Rights' when it is clear for all the world to see that they only get involved in world issues if there is a direct benefit to the US, like Iraq for example (Oil) - but they don't bother doing anything about Robert Mugabe for example as there is no benefit to them.

We also hate the way that Hollywood 'Changes History' when making films to make the US look great no matter what the situation, or even re-writes history altogether as was seen recently with that film about stealing the Enigma machine in WW2.

Personally - I hate the way you all Whoop and Cheer even at the slightest thing or for no reason at all - whats that all about ?.

So basically, it's your government that is most hated, not you yourselves as Americans or your country.

 

"We are quite prepared to listen to the US - all we want the US to do is listen back"

Don't remember who said it - but I think this sums it up.

I think that Bush epitomises some of the things that Europeans like to dislike most about the USA. And, let's face it, he's an easy target.  

Once we get past military belligerence / political arrogance, the list goes downhill very quickly. What else do we dislike? The hummvees, the food, the beer, the... err... that's about it.

That doesn't mean that all our opinions are negative. It's just that the way these boards work will tend to amplify any disagreements, and "I like the way you do X" is lost in the noise.

I'm not really a city guy, but I had the good fortune to spend a month in
middle-of-nowhere, Idaho (hmm.. nearly 2 years ago now). Loved every minute of it.  

Personally - I hate the way you all Whoop and Cheer even at the slightest thing or for no reason at all - whats that all about ?.

Huh? What are you talking about? Care to explain?

I was sitting in a restaraunt in Old Montreal 2 days ago when I overheard a conversation at the next table with a father, mother and daughter (about 16).

After being greeted in French, the father, in a rather offensive tone said "Speak English". The server cheerfully spoke English and took the order. When the server walked away, the man told his family that it was incredible to him that "these people" just don't get it. He explained that anyone with money walking through the door at this time of year is going to speak English. The daughter said "but we ARE in a foreign country". The father explained that Canada was basically a US protectorate and they are pretty much a "fifty second" state. (I wonder what the 51st state is!)

He continued to tell her that you can travel anywhere in the world, and people will speak english because they "know what side their bread is buttered on", and that everyone in the world learns english in school as a second language. Apparantly these "uppity" French hold-outs in Quebec are just being antagonistic....

With people like this occasionally representing Americans, it's no wonder you get some negativity.

I know enough Americans to know that this attitude isn't prevalent. But then I read posts from MattD, and temporarily reconsider....

 

Its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Just look at both point of views before you point the finger.

_______________________________________________________________

Well said EGGD.

Cheers,

mb

You know, a lot of people talk about the ignorance of Americans, but you know what, there is planty of ignorance in Europe too...

I like Europe by the way, its great. I am just a little tired of people in Europe (or America even) calling Americans ignorant/etc just because they have seen one American who only cares about America. I've seen people who are European who are just like that (except about Europe).

And, by the way, the US president is responsible for one set of people in the world, US citizens. Everything that happens under his watch better have a benefit to citizens of the US, or he isn't doing his job. That's the truth of it. A lot of people complain that the US doesn't help others unless it itself gets a benefit. Here's the thing, every country is like that. The US government would not be doing its job if it spent all our money helping people who basically give us nothing in return.

-Nick

To the human race;
Hang in there, the Bushman regime will not last forever!

(aftermath of 9/11, Frankfurt)


An image can say more than a thousand words.

I think that Europe really tends to break down into two categories, the first category being the most prevalent:

1) Citizens of a nation who disagree with American military action or our leaders, but still generally hold Americans and America in a relatively high regard. Countries I would put into this category include; Great Britain, Ireland, The Netherlands, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Germany, Switzerland, most former Soviet-bloc nations, and a few others.

2) Citizens of a nation that tend to not only disagree with American military action and our leaders, but generally hold America and Americans in poor regard no matter what the circumstances: Belgium, Russia, Spain, France, etc.

Again, I'm just talking about popular opinion. I left a several countries out because their opinion of America tends to change like the wind.

I think most Europeans dont like conservative (in an American sense) Americans--and show a general lack of respect to American politicians in general.

I also think that a.net is suffering from a lack of conservative and moderate Europeans to balance out the entire argument. You know, there are people in Europe that do support the war in Iraq and the Bush policies, its not a majority by any stretch of the imagination, but they do exist.

[Edited 2003-07-11 04:31:33]

Did we really have to dig up this horse and beat the corpse some more?

After being greeted in French, the father, in a rather offensive tone said "Speak English". The server cheerfully spoke English and took the order. When the server walked away, the man told his family that it was incredible to him that "these people" just don't get it. He explained that anyone with money walking through the door at this time of year is going to speak English. The daughter said "but we ARE in a foreign country". The father explained that Canada was basically a US protectorate and they are pretty much a "fifty second" state. (I wonder what the 51st state is!)

He continued to tell her that you can travel anywhere in the world, and people will speak english because they "know what side their bread is buttered on", and that everyone in the world learns english in school as a second language. Apparantly these "uppity" French hold-outs in Quebec are just being antagonistic....

Oh, please. There are people like that in every country, not just America. Every country has people that are poor "ambassadors" of their country while travelling abroad. Stop making broad statements like that based on one experience.

Jcs17, your arguments are flawed generalizations. There ARE conservative Europeans, however not even the most conservative European can compare to an even mildly conservative American. This explains why it appears TO YOU that there are no conservative Europeans on this forum. There are but their brand of conservatism is vastly outshined by that from accross the pond.

Oh, please. There are people like that in every country, not just America. Every country has people that are poor "ambassadors" of their country while travelling abroad. Stop making broad statements like that based on one experience.

Yes, these people exist everywhere but in my experience a greater number of Americans seem to fall under this behavior. It's no mistake that the world generally attributes this type of arrogant behavior to Americans.

Leezyjet and QANTASFOREVER...your blanket comments are fine examples of ignorance and arrogance in their own right...proving once again that arrogance and ignorance are alive and well in Europe...and even Australia which, btw, has numerous "bad ambassadors" of their own traveling about the world.

HERE'S AN IDEA, GUYS....WHY DON'T WE ATTEMPT TO NOT HAVE A THREAD LIKE THIS FOR A WHOLE WEEK?! First one to set the wheels in motion to an America vs. Everyone else deal is to be hanged from his neck until he is dead...Think we can pull it off, or are you all just obsessed with this?

Schoenorama, feel free to call me a "Yank" anytime. I take no offense.

I just wonder how a batch of currency could possible hate the US.  

Oh yes, I meet many citizens of other countries on a regular basis and sense no ill will whatsoever.The reverse though I see daily.

cs17, your arguments are flawed generalizations. There ARE conservative Europeans, however not even the most conservative European can compare to an even mildly conservative American. This explains why it appears TO YOU that there are no conservative Europeans on this forum. There are but their brand of conservatism is vastly outshined by that from accross the pond.

Dont worry Hepkat, I'm not holding my breath waiting for a "conservative" European to proclaim, "End all social programs!" or "Bush is a great world leader!" However, most Europeans on these forums do tend to take leftist (European) attitude towards America. I just dont think that there is a large number of conservative Europeans on these forums judging by the posts I have gone through in the eight months here.

Yes, these people exist everywhere but in my experience a greater number of Americans seem to fall under this behavior. It's no mistake that the world generally attributes this type of arrogant behavior to Americans.

Did you ever consider the fact that Americans travel overseas more than the citizens of most countries. In terms of sheer numbers, Americans travel overseas more than citizens of any country. You cant seem to turn a corner in any major European city in the summer without seeing at least one tourist from America.

I'm in a position where I travel around the world regularly, mainly the Middle East, Europe (West, East & the former USSR), USA, Asia, Sth America and the Pacific (never been to Africa or the Med.).

More often than not, the general feeling that I hear from people about their perceptions of the USA (just a few reasons that I can think of right now), is that:

1. Americans think they are high & mighty & are better than everyone else. There is such a think as being proud of your country (take Scotland or Ireland for example), but get off your high horse.
2. They think they can whatever they want to whoever they want whenever they want.
3. They don't accept or respect other country's differing opinions, thinking that the USA has the only right answer (e.g. if countrys didn't support their position on Iraq then they are punished through restricted trade or military support). Because the control the world's media (except Al Jazeera so it seems), they can manipulate the public much easier.
4. They think they have jurisdiction over any territory in the world (i.e. the world's policeman).
5. They are guilty of hypocripsy (sp?), in other words, they attack Iraq for having weapons of mass destruction, but which country has the most weapons of mass destruction? - the USA! If you think "oh, but we can be trusted, refer to #3 above).
6. In a similar theme to #5, they go on and on about America being land of the free, but the citizens put of with so much more red tape, B.S. and government control than many people I know in other countries.
7. Because few Americans seem to travel, they have no accurate picture of life in other countries, so don't have an accurate basis from which to spout 'America is the greatest' etc etc etc

Being from a small nation that has fought alongside other allied troops in the World Wars, of course we really do appreciate what the US has done for world peace (at least up until a couple of years ago). Without their help, the world would certainly be an awful place. In the same vein, everyone recognises the significant contribution towards the world economy. BUT, what's with the high & mighty attitude? I don't think the words 'humble' or 'modest' feature much in the American lingo.

Nothing personal, but if Americans could be a little more respectful and humble, we wouldn't find you all so arrogant, yet amusing all the same  

Dont worry Hepkat, I'm not holding my breath waiting for a "conservative" European to proclaim, "End all social programs!" or "Bush is a great world leader!" However, most Europeans on these forums do tend to take leftist (European) attitude towards America. I just dont think that there is a large number of conservative Europeans on these forums judging by the posts I have gone through in the eight months here.

You've missed my point Jcs. What I was trying to say is that there are conservative Europeans, I've living in one of the most conservative EU countries, so I know. The difference is, even the most conservative European, or Austrian, for that matter, pales in comparison to the average conservative American. I.E., our brand of conservatism is unknown in Europe, which is why it appears to you that there are no conservative Europeans on the forums. How likely is it that a forum open to free membership statistically sees a lack of conservative thinking members from one geographic area?

Did you ever consider the fact that Americans travel overseas more than the citizens of most countries. In terms of sheer numbers, Americans travel overseas more than citizens of any country. You cant seem to turn a corner in any major European city in the summer without seeing at least one tourist from America.

This is once again a false statement. By sheer percentages, Europeans are the most well travelled of the world's citizens. Fewer than 10% of Americans ever travel outside U.S. borders, whereas Europeans, especially Germans, travel in very vast numbers. You see and hear Americans more because they want to be seen and heard more than others.

Most Euro's don't hate America or Americans. What they hate is the Americam foreign policy and the American ruling class (that includes government / large companies / financial institutions). Other than that, if you want a good exmple of EU/USA cooperation, just look at CFM International. (US technology with French flavor )

The Europeans don't "hate" Americans generally, there would be no reason for that.
However, it might be possible that some "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" are not totally satisfied with the way the average low-class American speak about them (see what I mean ?)

Actually I belive that it was Groundskeeper Willie, that called the French, "Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkeys"



And he is actually Scottish, not American  

Cwapilot,

Would you kindly explain how my comments are fine examples of ignorance and arrogance? If you intend to criticise me - do so in a logical and factual manner or if that is not possible - declaire so. Just as I did.

Take me point by point - go on.

QANTASFOREVER

Well, from a British perspective, I don't think that we hate the Americans at all, its rather the opposite in fact. Bush is not liked though, and there is suspicion raised as to the ability of the US military (we all agree that they are brave men, but also that they should never be allowed near live ammunition )

One thing I can't understand is why people judge America differently to other countries. All countries screw up some time but for example if Australia ends up illegally incarcerating a couple hundred refugees in poor conditions it is 'naughty Aussies' whereas when America does the same thing with a couple hundred terrorists in Cuba there is outrage, claims of imperialism and breach of the Geneva convention. Many people seem to bash America when its actions aren't 100% perfect, whereas other countires can get away with it. So that is unfair.

As for the 'Arrogant American' insisting the waiters speak English etc - I know quite a few English, Germans, French etc exactly like that! There are morons in every country.

Cwapilot,

What are you going on about ? How are they arrogant and Ignorant ?. The poster asked for reasons, I was only responding to the question with some reasons why some people in Europe don't like the US.


Flight152,

When I was in Florida this Spring Break, everytime we went anywhere, all we could here were people going "WOO YEAH" and just generally making whooping and chearing noises as loud as they could for no apparant reason.

Maybe it's because I'm British and just don't understand the need to let the whole world know I did something great, as the way we celebrate if someone does something good is just to smile, say "well done" and maybe give a pat on the back or a handshake rather than screaming and shouting and whooping and chearing out as loud as we can.

Hope you understand what I mean.

WOOHOO YEAH MAN WOO WOO WOO !!  

 

To the Americans reading this post, maybe you should consider reading this.

Qb001,

This is the beginning of the piece,

>>>"I have often heard Canadians make disparaging remarks about their own country. In fact, it has been alleged that Canada’s national bird is the grouse. Robert Fulford has written, “My generation of Canadians grew up believing that, if we were very good or very smart, or both, we should some day graduate from Canada.”

Americans do not think this way at all. At least, not many Americans do. Most Americans believe they already live in the country where they want to be."<<<

What a load of tripe. Apparently this man hasn't been involved with many actual normal conversations with actual Americans. Griping is a worldwide phenomenon which recognizes no international borders.

Though if most Americans don't wish to move abroad is no smoking gun of chauvanism, if you ask me.

For every article espousing this POV I can post one that refutes it or uses ...fill the blank>>>country<<< substitutes . These are simply opinions in print. If I agree with the writer than it is most assuredly correct. If not, it's incorrect (or tripe - see above).

Also, most Americans don't hate Europe or Australia, why should they. They are too busy running their own affairs to divert their time & energy on irrelevant issues. Am I saying Europe is irrelevant? Of course not. But in the day to day scheme of things, unless you're a diplomat or A.net non-Aviation regular, the topic is just not that important and doesn't cross the average Americans mind. And that IMO that is good. Of course if you insist on cherrypicking selected examples to vindicate this opinion of America's hate of Europe, there is nothing that can be said to convince you otherwise. Then it goes beyond the intractable thought that the U.S. hates us to, "I want the U.S. to hate us". Thus rationalizing and validating their own prejudices. And I might apply the same thought process to some Americans, Aussies, etc.

And I might add the average Icelander or resident of Nice, France or Stuttgart, Germany is also concerned with practical matters of his/her family, job and other pressing needs than devoting time to my numerous faults.

And though I don't wring my hands worrying about how Europe thinks of me, I certainly wish every European my best wishes and a good day.

FDXmech,

I believe this article was written by an American. Had it been written by, say, a German, I would have dismissed it, as I know it wouldn't be taken seriously. But if written by an American, I feel it got some credibility.

Anyway, the point it was trying to make is to say that the state of superpower always lead to chauvinism and the US are no exception to the rule. Since it's the rule, does it mean that nothing should be made to try and soften it a bit? I say no.

What I find most annoying at times with the Americans, is the belief that they are always the best in the world. And I know I'm not the only one who feel this way. In another thread, in response to an argument I had made, an American member wrote something about a medical clinic in Houston having the best cardiologists in the world. My answer was to say: "To say that, do you know all cardiologists in the world?" I got no answer, but really, I didn't need one.

If we didn't like you, we wouldn't be so critical. Take it as a friendly advice.

>>>I believe this article was written by an American. Had it been written by, say, a German, I would have dismissed it, as I know it wouldn't be taken seriously. But if written by an American, I feel it got some credibility.<<<

I believe you're right, but the tripe rating stands. As far as an American writing this so it must be credible makes no difference. American opinion runs the gamut on everything. I'm an American and I say he's full of baloney; will you take my word over his, maybe, but probably not. I can certainly find examples of *arrogant* Americans, but I could certainly find arrogant individuals of all races and nationalities.

>>>In another thread, in response to an argument I had made, an American member wrote something about a medical clinic in Houston having the best cardiologists in the world. My answer was to say: "To say that, do you know all cardiologists in the world?" I got no answer, but really, I didn't need one.<<<

Well my solution is to shut down this and every other website and ban subjective thinking and start deleting posts with the slightest inkling of opinion or subjective innuendo.

Let me ask you, is it within the realm of possiblity for me to find a Canadian poster who claims that his country has the best of something, anything? I imagine so. Is it poosible for a Canadian (or any poster) to claim his country has something better than someone elses country, again. I would bet in the affirmative. If an American poster claims the Yankees are the best while another American poster claim the Angels are the best, is that *arrogance*?

Is there a double standard for American posters to keep their opinions to themselves or risk the very real possibility of ruining our good(?) name over the world? Is this standard you set being equally applied to all citizens who ply this site?

Most or a good part of the debate on serious issues are intra-American. We are among the most introspective nation on earth, nothing is too sacred to be brought out. Don't confuse someone whose opinion differs from yours as being chauvanistic. Intellegent free thinking people (as Hepcat says) don't necessarily have to be in agreement with you to be either intellegent or free thinking, though I admit it's desireable.

I agree with FDXmech. I will have to add Griessman to the list of baloney-peddling American writers. Among the worst: Susan Sonntag who I believe called 9/11 a "critique" US foreign policy. There are plenty of Americans who want a reassuring pat on the back from foreigners for being one of the "good" Americans or are part of the intelligensia who view patriotism as a base and unsophisticated emotion. I hold most of those Americans in utter contempt.

There are some Americans who outwardly express that the US is always the best. But I have run across some Germans, plenty of Japanese, and innumerable Chinese who hold the rest of the planet in low regard.

When visiting Seoul a few years ago, I got a good laugh out of all the Canadian flags stitched onto backpacks. I was surprised by their overwhelming need to distinguish themselves from us.