cedarjet
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NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Fri Jul 11, 2003 11:56 pm

I get NBC News on Sky in the UK every night (and ABC on BBC24) and last night's broadcast was absolutely deadly for W. It showed him quoting British intelligence in the State Of The Union address, and explained why he mentioned British intelligence - to evade responsibility for, basically, lying. And I've got to say, "Saddam is trying to buy uranium from Niger" is a good deal more serious (indeed at the opposite end of the spectrum) than "I did not have relations with that woman."

The main "Eye On America" piece focused on Americans queuing for food, which really shocked me - cos they were all white, and all their cars (of course they were queuing in cars, my god Americans love their cars) were big flash sedans, people movers and SUVs. This wasn't homeless people in Astoria NY, they were hardworking middle Americans who'd either lost their jobs or weren't able to make ends meet. The queue of cars for this free food (I think supermarkets or fruit & veg wholesalers give it away to needy people when it's about to go past the use-by date?) was miles long. Many people were too ashamed to be filmed. There was also a poll which showed 25% think the economy is getting worse, 25% think it's getting better, and 50% think it's staying the same. So 75% think it's not improving, or getting worse. They also said 400,000 new people a week are signing on for unemployment benefit. There was an interview with an old(ish) lady who was saying she needs nine prescriptions (!) but could only afford three of them - "I just have to do without." (This "Making Ends Meet" segment was preceded by a piece about W's African expedition, and they showed a piece of film of W watching some elephants humping. Which won't have helped.)

What really knocked me out is that in the UK, when the economy falters even a tiny bit, opinion polls immediately start appearing, showing that most Brits would like to leave the country. But in this queue of starving WASPs, literally from every third car ariel fluttered the stars and stripes, and a lot of the people had, you know, USA or stars and stripes t-shirts on. And it really made me feel sad, these people (and probably most Americans) REALLY BELIEVE in their country, and their faith has never been put to such a test. OK, Clinton shagged a few tarts but everyone was making tonnes of money (hence all the nice cars) and America was looked up to (I was talking to someone the other day who is going to work in LA for three months and she didn't seem that fussed about going to America - she said, I think accurately, "America just isn't 'cool' anymore").

Anyway, my point is that I just don't see how things can continue like this. The economy is crashing and three quarters of the people don't see a recovery. The war in Iraq is going wrong (think how often you hear guys in suits on telly saying "Iraq isn't the new Vietnam"). And the president is watching elephants humping in Gaberone.

How long will Americans tolerate the current mess? Will W even be in office at the end of his first term (I predict not)? Thoughts please.

[Edited 2003-07-11 17:19:37]
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L-188
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Fri Jul 11, 2003 11:59 pm

The economy is far from collapsing, unless you are one of the layed off people.

Truth be told the Stock Market is 20% higher then the low point it hit three months ago.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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modernArt
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:40 am

Mainly, because the picture NBC "News" paints is patently one-sided. Try as they might to make it sound like the U.S. is revisiting the Great Depression, it simply isn't the case.

These indicators speak for themselves
-New and used home sales are approaching record levels in almost all regions of the U.S.

-News cars, expensive cars, are all flying off dealer lots

-Shopping malls are full of buyers waiting to make purchases

-Like L-188 mentioned, the stock market is rebounding moderately and more rationally (the late 90s was over-filled like a balloon waiting to pop)

Personally, I've never had more clients and more opportunities to grow my business than I do at the current time (15 years in business).
 
cedarjet
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:57 am

I didn't realise NBC was biased. Is it not one of the Old Guard, so to speak? It did have a whiff of bias, it certainly made very depressing viewing. Although I doubt it was factually incorrect. I would like to ask Americans on the forum if they think America is desending or climbing, but there are dozens of threads active at any time on here which will paint a convincing picture of either.

I think world events, the ME etc are like a mirror, you only see yourself, not what's happening. If you feel optimistic, you can see growth, stability, prosperity; if you feel pessimistic, you can see killing, hunger, wasted talent and poverty. Smile and the whole world (whether it's happy or not) smiles back.

[Edited 2003-07-11 17:57:51]
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CX747
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:01 am

I agree with the above posters. I'm not quite sure where NBC went for its data but the program paints a very different picture than what is truly going on. Yesterday I received my quarterly paperwork on my Aerospace stocks. For the first time in a while I am back in black with a nice profit. New house sales have continued to grow. I find this program very startingly.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
travelin man
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:05 am

Actually, the US economy is better than most of continental Europe's at this point. Unemployment is 3-4 percentage points lower, and growth is higher. This said, it seems like we have a "jobless recovery" going on, where companies are starting to make more profits, but it is not translating into more jobs.

And it really made me feel sad, these people (and probably most Americans) REALLY BELIEVE in their country, and their faith has never been put to such a test.

What exactly are you talking about? Our economy has hit a bump, but it was one of the mildest recessions on record. Here are some of the things that may have tested Americans more:
9/11
The BIG recession of 1982-83
Watergate
Vietnam
Kennedy's Assassination
Cuban Missle Crisis
Korean War
World War 2
The Great Depression

Sorry, but I think you're being overly dramatic about some of the bits of news you saw on TV last night.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:12 am

Truth be told the Stock Market is 20% higher then the low point it hit three months ago.

Most Americans don't give a shit about the stock market, L-188. Many have stocks, but many others don't. All the stock market tells an average American is that bigwigs in corporate America will get their bonuses, even when they're laying off more workers.

Listening to the above posters, you'd think everything is just peachy in the U.S. It's not-it's far, far from a Depression, and the economy isn't "crashing", but the economy isn't robust at all, and we have other "problems" that are starting to fester-there's plenty of threads about that subject.

But one point the thread-starter missed is that most Americans, even in times of great crisis, or in bad times, have a deep, unshakable faith in their country. My dissapointments in Bush are well-known on here, but it has not, nor will it ever, shake my faith in the over-riding strength and goodness of the American people or this country. After all, presidents do come and go, but the basic strength of this nation remains undeterred.

It isn't perfect, but there's nowhere on earth I'd rather be.
 
cedarjet
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Sat Jul 12, 2003 2:11 am

Alpha, you said: "One point the thread-starter missed is that most Americans...have a deep, unshakable faith in their country."

In my opening post: "These people (and probably most Americans) REALLY BELIEVE in their country."

I know how much faith Americans have in their country. Believe me, even from over here it's hard to miss. (See also the name of the topic.)

[Edited 2003-07-11 19:12:01]
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Alpha 1
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Sat Jul 12, 2003 2:18 am

My point was, that that fact seem to mystify you. It doesnt' mistify you if you live here, that was what I was driving at. We've tolerated bigger messes than what's currently going on now-civil war, depression, world war, the entire 1960's. We can get through this.
 
North County
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Sat Jul 12, 2003 2:30 am



Here is an old story to reflect American views of economic downturns:

A recession is when your neighbor loses his/her job...

A depression is when you lose you job.



The business cycle doesn't slow down or speed up for any man (president)

 
L-188
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:26 pm

Sorry, Alpha but that was the one statistic that I could be pretty sure that I had remembered correctly. But it is an indicator that things are not as nearly as far south as the news seems to be protraying it.

There is a lot of truth in those definitions of recession and depression that North Country gave.

You also have to give points to the fact that in the past two years, with the coperate shrinks due to 9/11, the corperate accounting scandals that started in the late 1990's, the economy has taken some nearly unprecedented hits in a short amount of time.

All and all, it seems to be weathering the storm fairly well.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:30 pm

All and all, it seems to be weathering the storm fairly well.

Put "Clinton" where "Bush" is right now, behind "President", and conservatives are screaming holy hell about the economy, just as Democrats are doing today.

It works both way, the hypocrisy.
 
cedarjet
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Sun Jul 13, 2003 8:31 am

I wanted to just start the thread and see what Americans said rather than weigh in on one (inevitable) side. However I must say that Alpha's last post is absolutely spot on. L-188 purred, "All and all, it seems to be weathering the storm fairly well." If Gore was presiding over the current economic situation he would have been actually shot at by now on more than one public appearance. And also worth pointing out, WHAT STORM?! What Americans have to understand is that they MAKE the weather. At this point in history, America is so economically powerful (not to mention in other ways) that if there's a storm, it's not cos of France or Mexico or Jesus or something, they're causing the ripples themselves. It's the rest of us that are stringing barf bags along the railings and tying shit down, while America struggles to come to terms with itself.

And kind of on the subject, I was really stunned that one of our right wing friends recently went to the trouble of posting "Clinton - the false success" (is this grammatically sound btw?), like, THREE YEARS after the man left office. The guys who spent eight long years bitching about Clinton being a "crook" because he had sex with consenting adult(s) are definitely worried that now Their Man is in the driving seat (by fair means or foul), he's fucking things up big time, with the economy, the environment and most of all overseas.
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delta-flyer
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Sun Jul 13, 2003 11:23 am

Most Americans don't give a shit about the stock market,...
That may be true, but the direction of the stock market is a leading indicator -- it can be used to predict the direction of the economy in the near-future.

I would like to ask Americans on the forum if they think America is desending or climbing....
When considering the "trendline", I would say climbing. On top of that, there are of course the business cycle variations.

Why do Americans have faith in their country? Because we live pretty well and have a lot to lose. That's why we have faith in ourselves. When adversity hits, we meet it, solve it as best we can, and grow.

Example: My Chinese colleague (who lives here) expressed surprise at how quickly life was back to normal after 9/11. He had the idea that the streets will be packed with armed soldiers and life would grind to a halt.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Tue Jul 15, 2003 5:51 am

How long will Americans tolerate the current mess? Will W even be in office at the end of his first term (I predict not)? Thoughts please.

You know, it's funny you should mention that. Back on May 1, I got an e-mail from an accquaintance of mine which said:

The fabulous Caroline Casey has great astrological news. Whenever Saturn enters Cancer - which it does this June 2nd,- the current resident of The White House is outta there within eight months!!!!! It happened to FDR - he died. Nixon - he fled and now to Shrub who, according to his personal astrology, will experience character assasination & disgrace this July or August!

At the time, I just laughed and decided I'd save the e-mail and send it back to him in 8 months. Now, I'm starting to wonder.

LoneStarMike

 
cedarjet
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:32 pm

I know it sounds OTT but I can't see Bush being in office in 2004. I don't know from which direction the deus ex machina will come, but whether the stock market is up 20% or not, America seems to be in a bad situation. This has happened before (indeed much worse) but I can't see any talent around W that is capable of really turning things around - emptying the nation's savings accounts into the pockets of millionaires and inviting (literally - "bring em on" - d'oh!) further terrorist attacks is about as good as it gets with the current administration. If "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" is an impeachable offence, what is misleading the nation into a new Vietnam?!

We'll see if Lonestar Mike's astrologer is right. I think it's quite possible.
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AerLingus
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Tue Jul 15, 2003 8:17 pm

Most Americans don't equate the economy or the current government with love of country.
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
Alpha 1
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Tue Jul 15, 2003 8:19 pm

Hey Aer Lingus, any idea where you can get that as a bumper sticker, or a button??
 
cedarjet
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Tue Jul 15, 2003 8:19 pm

I don't have to like Bush to love America either. Nicely put, couldn't agree more.
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AerLingus
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Tue Jul 15, 2003 8:28 pm

That's actually a button that you can get from this site...
http://www.gwbush.com
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
Alpha 1
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Wed Jul 16, 2003 7:29 am

Aer Lingus, I think I'll buy a few buttons and bumper stickers from that place!  Big thumbs up
 
ctbarnes
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:43 pm

NBC News isn't so much biased as it is sensational. They seem to think that people won't watch a news broadcast unless it entertains them. Human interest stories are what matter, as do gossipy "water cooler" stories, i.e. what you'll discuss around the water cooler in the office the next day. In other words, sound journalism doesn't matter as much as ratings do. That's why we get such heights of broadcast journalism as the endless OJ simpson saga, the endless Jon-Benet Ramsey saga, the endless Bill Clinton did you know what to Gennifer/Paula/Monica, etc. etc. Do you get Dateline over there. If you do, you see what I mean; if not, thank God.

The biggest problem with news broadcasts in the United States is that they don't report the news!

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:45 pm

Your points about the media have a lot of merit and many of those same points were made in this article:

Is the Media Finally Turning on Bush?The Importance of TippingJuly 9, 2003

An excerpt from the article:

Why the sudden shift in the U.S. media, from unabashed war boosterism to increasing skepticism?

The answer is simple: the continued killing of American troops.

For the first time since at least 9/11, the dynamic of the corporate media business is working against Bush's interests. Top management at the media conglomerates may still have a strong political affinity for the Bush administration, with its anti-regulation ideology and its general pro-business, pro-rich policies, but dead soldiers make great news, and the news business lives and dies on ratings and circulation.

Viewers and readers eat up stories about innocent, dedicated young soldiers getting killed in the line of duty, particularly by nefarious guerrillas who shoot and run instead of standing and fighting so they can be wasted for their crimes. We are hooked on these stories because they get us angry--first of course at those who are doing the killing, but before too long, also at those in power who are putting our "boys" in harm's way.

Add to that the growing awareness that the reasons for sending American troops into Iraq were bogus in the first place, and you quickly shift to a broad opposition to administration policy.

All this could happen--indeed is happening--very rapidly. First the media has to tip from support for the war to opposition. That appears to be happening already. Then the public will begin to tip, from support for the war and for the Bush administration, to public sentiment in favor of bringing the troops home and for punishing Bush for sending them there in the first place.

There's much more in the article and it gives you something to think about.

LoneStarMike

 
Boeing4ever
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Wed Jul 16, 2003 4:03 pm

It's disturbing that there are those who associate not liking Bush with not liking America...

Equally disturbing is the growing number of people who associate liking Bush with being a right-wing fascist who hates America.

It works both ways. That gwbush site is just something else we moderates now have to put up with in addition to the worship Dubya or be branded a traitor rhetoric.  Yeah sure

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
MD-90
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Wed Jul 16, 2003 4:51 pm

The whole "Americans queing for food in their cars" sounds exactly like a McDonalds or Wendys drive-thru line.

I've been to New Orleans, worked in a homeless shelter, and I know what people who are truly desperate for food look like. Yeah, a good many of them were white, but they certainly weren't driving big flashy cars.

What'd that old lady look like? Obesity and a poor diet cause A LOT of needless perscriptions to be signed by a doctor. Hello, people who aren't overweight tend not to get diabetes or have heart attacks (for example).

I look around me and I sure don't see no crashing economy, homeslice.
 
cedarjet
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Wed Jul 16, 2003 8:18 pm

Thanks for the link, Lone Star Mike. B4e - you're right, it's a shame what Bush's doing to America's reputation. But of course people are going to judge the nation by the actions and words of it's elected (should that be in inverted commas?) leader. Why wouldn't they?

The woman needing nine prescriptions wasn't fat. But still, nine? I think that inadvertently highlighted some problems with America's health system. I mean, who needs nine different drugs a day?! Like I said originally, she was quoted as saying that she had to make do on three - and she didn't seem to be on death's door as a result (the reduction probably helped in fact).

What's a home slice?!
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USAirways737
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:17 am

That wasn't the first time a segment like that was on Nightly News. I remember a few months ago there was an "Eye On America" segment about the increasing need of food donations to the "working people" of America. I laughed because OVER half of the people who were standing in line were obese if not just incredibly huge!

Lesson to be learned:
Money goes a lot further you spend it at a grocery store, not a McDonalds (even though the McD Dollar Menu would like you to think otherwise).

Erik in MSP
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: NBC News Last Night / Believing In America

Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:39 am

B4e - you're right, it's a shame what Bush's doing to America's reputation. But of course people are going to judge the nation by the actions and words of it's elected (should that be in inverted commas?) leader. Why wouldn't they?

You missed my point. See I'm neutral. A Moderate Republican. I don't approve of Dubya, I think his economic policies are crap, and this who Uranium thing (Jury is STILL OUT) looks right now to be a load of incompetence.

What I was railing against in that post was not so much the idiots who say that if you don't like Bush, you hate America but the idiots who blame Dubya for everything and will immediately label anyone who doesn't HATE Bush as a right-wing fascist. And that site, promotes it. It smacks of Liberal Far-Left propaganda. *Sigh* There aren't enough MODERATE sites out there.

Guess what, I don't hate Bush, and I don't think he's all evil. But if you DARE criticize me for using my independent MODERATE brain over your far-left wing rhetoric, I'll come down on you like a hurricane. Same goes for the far-right.

I mean LOOK! There are nuts out there saying that if you hate Dubya, you're a traitor! Then you have nutjobs like Pelosi! The Democrats learned NOTHING when the middle punished them for straying too far left, in the general elections, and continue to do so. Problem is, the Republicans are now straying far to the right. Who do we punish? The Middle is under attack! It's WAR!

B4e-Forever New Frontiers

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