jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:10 am

I just came across this poll on http://www.cnn.com/wolf . It appears that by an overwhelming amount the American public has lost confidence in the way President Bush is handling the situation in Iraq.



Do you have confidence in the way President Bush is handling the situation in Iraq?
Yes 6% 514 votes
No 94% 7928 votes
Total: 8442 votes


Somehow I doubt now that Bush will be re-elected. The situation in Iraq is terrible. The economy is terrible. The school system still sucks. The health care issues are far from resolved. Usama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein are still on the loose. The world hates us and our foreign policy. Civil liberties are being compromised. The budget deficit is out of control. Our troops want to come home. Has Bush done anything right?
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:18 am

Don't trust an one-button online vote like this.
Ballot-stuffing is a regular occurrence.

Somebody who feels strongly about the issue can send a loaded email all their friends encouraging them to vote (and forward it to their friends...)

Of course, if it's poorly implemented then there's probably no more than a cookie recording your site visit, so if you block cookies from that site you can vote thousands of times, until your finger gets sore. I haven't bothered checking CNN.com for this possibility.

(PS. I voted No.  Big grin )
Cunning linguist
 
AerLingus
Posts: 2280
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RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:23 am

I agree...there are way too many unresolved issues for this president. The situation is bad for him and I really must say, he's f-cked up things quite seriously. I think the only thing Bush has done right is cunningly (and unconscionably) use 9/11 as his soapbox from which to get what he wanted. I'm sick of the whole situation, quite honestly. I'm confident that the American public will come to their senses.

...the citizen who thinks he sees that the commonwealth's political clothes are worn out, and yet holds his peace and does not agitate for a new suit, is disloyal; he is a traitor.

-Mark Twain

Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
Schoenorama
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RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:36 am

Jhooper:

Check http://www.pollingreport.com/index.html for more accurate polling reports.

From that site:

Newsweek Poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates. July 10-11, 2003. N=1,017 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.

"Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling the situation in Iraq?"

Approve 53% (65%;69% on earlier polls, respectively)
Disapprove 39% (29%;26% on earlier polls, respectively)
No Opinion 8% (6%;5% on earlier polls, respectively)



"The world hates us and our foreign policy."

I don't hate you (not even B757300  Wink/being sarcastic); I just hate your foreign policy.
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
DC10GUY
Posts: 2590
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RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:44 am

Yeah but outside of those things.....You forgot unemployment is at a 9 year high too.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:47 am

Yeah but outside of those things.....You forgot unemployment is at a 9 year high too.

And you continuously forget the economy happens in cycles. The President can't be blamed for a recession. He can't be credited with a boom either. Hey, Dubya hasn't done much to help the economy at all, but don't forget that this recession started at the end of Clinton's term.

The economy is all cycles. Sorry to burst your bubble, but Clinton, like Reagan, is no God.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:08 pm

The overwhelming amount of the American public gets its view of Iraq from the news media that seems to concentrate on the negative things.

You would be surprised that on the issue of water, or the free flowing of it, is now at it's highest level far surpassing what the previous dictator ever did for his people. The amount of work that this took is amazing if you know anything about what it takes to supply, pump, and flow accessible drinking water. You never hear about things like that, so how could you have conidence?

Things, good things, just don't happen overnight. We seem to have come to expect that in our fast pace, I want it now society. It's not quite fair to say that you have little confidence towards the President. Not fair at all.

Confidence sure. Patience, absolutely.

"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:40 pm

Clipperhawaii, Where did you get your news on Iraq's water??? How did you know it was correct ???
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Thu Jul 17, 2003 2:20 pm

Dc10, this was confirmed by AFIS and I have a reason that it may very well be true. (AFIS is Armed Forces Information Services that reported on U.S. Army Corp of Engineers amongst others)
One of the most prevalent things that occurs when water is short, is disease. Cholera for one. There has been no major health crisis due to water shortages. Certain areas are still only at 80% of pre war flow but the flow is consistent and the effort being made in infrastructure is massive. Some areas have even reported better flow and quality.
Safe drinking water is certainly one of the first steps in returning the quality of life beyond pre war levels back to Iraqis.

By all means these hydro projects are not done and will continue. Specifically in outlying areas that at best, reach only 55% of areas capable of getting potable water.

There is a lot going on behind the scenes that most are not privy to, hence the lack of confidence portrayed by some.

"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
DC10GUY
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Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:24 pm

Fixing there water & electric supply is something I'm sure we can do a great job at. Of course we did just do a really great job of blowing it all up. I hope we can win there hearts & minds. Iraq will have a American presence for a long time.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Super Em
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 7:55 am

RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Thu Jul 17, 2003 4:29 pm

I think the public is losing confidence in Bush because we were promised a quick victory and a short occupation.Those promises were based on optimism and were used to sell the war. However they were also impossible.To me victory has not come yet and we cannot start occupying until most of the major threats are out of the way.
 
jhooper
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:00 pm

Who promised us a quick victory and short occupation?
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
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RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:08 pm

Any Internet poll is useless. As others have said, they can be rigged when a group of people with an agenda decide to "stuff the box".
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
galaxy5
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 10:09 pm

RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:38 pm

Jhooper
From United States, joined Dec 2001, 3102 posts, RR: 50
Reply: 11
Posted Thu Jul 17 2003 10:00:28 UTC+1 and read 31 times:
Who promised us a quick victory and short occupation?


No one did, as it was stated this would not be a cake walk and we would be there for a while. Bush and administration never stated it would be a cake walk.


"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
bobrayner
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RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:52 am

No one did, as it was stated this would not be a cake walk and we would be there for a while. Bush and administration never stated it would be a cake walk.

Rumsfeld wasn't really sure, but ventured an estimate:
"It could last, you know, six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."

Wolfowitz later reckoned that Iraq would be up and running (under an interim Iraqi government) in under six months.

Cheney also said "Weeks rather than months".

Do you remember the soundbites about "shock and awe" , and so on?
Cunning linguist
 
jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:42 am

They were probably talking about the "major combat" operations of the war. Nobody said the occupation would be over that quickly.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
bobrayner
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:57 am

They were probably talking about the "major combat" operations of the war. Nobody said the occupation would be over that quickly.

Yes, they did.

Some statements by Wolfowitz:

1. First - and this is really the overarching principle - the United States seeks to liberate Iraq, not occupy Iraq ... If the President should decide to use force, let me assure you again that the United States would be committed to liberating the people of Iraq, not becoming an occupation force.

2. If you're looking for a historical analogy, it's probably closer to post-liberation France [after WW2].

3. We have no desire to occupy Iraq

If you're not convinced, many more quotes are out there.
Cunning linguist
 
galaxy5
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 10:09 pm

RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:34 am

Some statements by Wolfowitz:

1. First - and this is really the overarching principle - the United States seeks to liberate Iraq, not occupy Iraq ... If the President should decide to use force, let me assure you again that the United States would be committed to liberating the people of Iraq, not becoming an occupation force.

2. If you're looking for a historical analogy, it's probably closer to post-liberation France [after WW2].

3. We have no desire to occupy Iraq

If you're not convinced, many more quotes are out there.


It still doesn't state or imply that this was going to be quick or easy, were does it state we are gonna be out of the quickly?
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
bobrayner
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:45 am

It still doesn't state or imply that this was going to be quick or easy, were does it state we are gonna be out of the quickly?

Perhaps this is a semantic issue. I tend to think that "not occupy" is incompatible with keeping troops in the country for months after the invasion finished. Can you reconcile them?
Cunning linguist
 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:49 am

(my personal opinion is that, now that the troops are there, they should actually stay and work to get Iraq back on its feet. However, I can spend all day picking holes in the Bush administration's bizarre excuses and justifications...)
Cunning linguist
 
galaxy5
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 10:09 pm

RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:57 am

Yes, occupation means we totally control their government, never let them have a government of their own, rape all their resources, totally control the general population with marshal law, limit all of the luxuries that are given to the public. Remove their religion and replace it with ours. and never leave until we are forced out by military action. THATS WHAT AN OCCUPATION IS.
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
aloges
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RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:05 am

"Yes, occupation means we totally control their government, never let them have a government of their own, rape all their resources, totally control the general population with marshal law, limit all of the luxuries that are given to the public. Remove their religion and replace it with ours. and never leave until we are forced out by military action. THATS WHAT AN OCCUPATION IS."

But you don't expect anyone to like seeing that happen to him/her, do you? Or are you not serious?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:39 pm

Occupation? If you need a meaning, just ask the 1930's German or Japanese what occupation is. They were the experts.

Or better yet, ask the Pole or the Chinese what occupation is.

"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:57 pm

Obviously, we will be "occupying" Iraq until their new government is established. We can't just go in there, blow everything up, and then leave! The occupation shouldn't last any longer than necessary to establish a new, stable government, which is a process that is underway.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Sun Jul 20, 2003 3:59 am

Any Internet poll is useless. As others have said, they can be rigged when a group of people with an agenda decide to "stuff the box".

Although it's true that polls, and certainly internet polls, are crap, it is strange that this same right conservative republican bush lover was attacking me and other users a few weeks ago when we had criticism on polls pro-bush.

Hypocrisy? Blindness? Ignorance? All three I guess?
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3260
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Sun Jul 20, 2003 4:50 am

Polls like these can not be trusted. This one can not be trusted either. The reasons for this are:

* CNN is an international site, us European can also vote and in Europe we are more critical or even plainly dislike Bush's policies.
* People can vote more then once. If someone does not like Bush, he can vote 100 times to influence the poll. Likewise, if someone does like Bush he can vote 100 times.

Also, you may want to recall the vote for the most popular American that the BBC organised on their website a few weeks back. Homer Simpson won with just over 50% of the votes! He even had more votes than the number 2 and 3 combined!
That result alone should prove once and for all that these polls should be taken with a lot of pinches of salt! (although I must admit I did found it a funny result!)
Attamottamotta!
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Little Confidence In Way Bush Is Handling Iraq

Sun Jul 20, 2003 5:06 am

Any Internet poll is useless.

B757300, I doubt you thought it was "useless" when an overwhelming of people in "internet polls" were supporting going to war. But now, when people are getting tired of the lies, and tired of U.S. servicemen dying daily, you call such things "useless".

What is useless is your continued support for this administration in the face of building facts that they got us into this war on false information, and didn't have a clue what to do once they got into it.

No one did, as it was stated this would not be a cake walk and we would be there for a while.

Oh, please, Galaxy5, don't insult our intelligence! There's no doubt that Bush and Neocon friends of his thought they'd waltz into Iraq, all the people would welcome them with open arms, and they'd be done with it. The fact that they had no plans to rotate in or out any fresh troops tells you that-because the Administration thought this would be over in late spring.

Yes, occupation means we totally control their government, never let them have a government of their own, rape all their resources, totally control the general population with marshal law, limit all of the luxuries that are given to the public. Remove their religion and replace it with ours. and never leave until we are forced out by military action. THATS WHAT AN OCCUPATION IS.

Galaxy5, THIS IS AN OCCUPATION GOING ON!! Take of your blinders, for God's sake: WE control their govenrment; WE control the policing of their streets; we control the electricity and the water-and the oil; WE are calling the shots, not Iraqi's. And WE are the ones saying that now, we could have this occupation here for years, possibly. Here's the definition of Occupation, in this situation:

Main Entry: oc·cu·pa·tion
Pronunciation: "ä-ky&-'pA-sh&n
Function: noun

3 a : the act or process of taking possession of a place or area : SEIZURE b : the holding and control of an area by a foreign military force c : the military force occupying a country or the policies carried out by it.


Now, tell me again, this is not an "occupation"?

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