jhooper
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The Case For Torture

Mon Jul 28, 2003 4:01 pm

I came across this interesting article which appeared in Newsweek in 1982. Any comments?

http://people.brandeis.edu/~teuber/torture.html
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
bobrayner
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RE: The Case For Torture

Mon Jul 28, 2003 5:06 pm

Some highly idealised - and very emotive - scenarios.

Yes, we capture somebody alive, somehow we're already certain that they have vital information about something that will kill many people (presumably you're not making a case for doing nasty things to every possible terrorist, after the fact, a la Guantanamo Bay), and we know that the only way to get this information is to force it out of them. How often does that happen?

Here are the results of an informal poll about a third, hypothetical, case. Suppose a terrorist group kidnapped a newborn baby from a hospital. I asked four mothers if they would approve of torturing kidnappers if that were necessary to get their own newborns back. All said yes, the most "liberal" adding that she would like to administer it herself.

Quite.
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jwenting
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RE: The Case For Torture

Mon Jul 28, 2003 5:49 pm

Torture can have its place in extracting information like it is described in this article, but where do we set the limits and how do we enforce them?
Strict rules are needed to prevent a slide towards the use of torture to extract confessions like is the practice in many countries.

I see a better use for torture as a means of execution, replacing the lethal injections and gas chambers now in use.
Used judiciously and aired on public television it can be a magnificent deterrent.
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NoUFO
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RE: The Case For Torture

Mon Jul 28, 2003 6:21 pm

I see a better use for torture as a means of execution, replacing the lethal injections and gas chambers now in use.
Used judiciously and aired on public television it can be a magnificent deterrent.


You scare me. Not kidding.
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L-188
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RE: The Case For Torture

Mon Jul 28, 2003 7:38 pm

This is just discussion on if the ends justify the means.
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CHRISBA777ER
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RE: The Case For Torture

Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:45 pm

Torture - do you guys not watch 24?

Ouch. Thats gotta hurt...
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
jwenting
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RE: The Case For Torture

Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:08 pm

Neither am I UFO... If executions were public and the criminals seen to suffer during them that might deter others from crime.

As it is it's too clean and invisible. "pour encourager les autres" as they used to say during the French revolution...
I'm all in favour of killing people the way they killed others.
Have drugsdealers injected with their entire supply of goods at once, serial killers strangled slowly over several hours, someone who killed others by burning their house with them inside be burned at the stake.
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TriStar500
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RE: The Case For Torture

Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:28 pm

Sounds great, why not apply for a job for Minister of Justice in Saudi-Arabia?

Not even Saddam Hussein was sick enough to show torture broadcasts on TV.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
crewchief32
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RE: The Case For Torture

Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:13 pm

What is so sick about showing torture broadcatss on TV?????
It`s most likely not more violent than the average "Thriller" or Horrofilm like "Scream" or "Hellraiser".......
And before you ask, hell yes, I wish we would have a justice system like Saudi Arabia here in Germany!
It makes me sick when you see how much they care about the criminals instead of their victims.........

CC32
 
NoUFO
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RE: The Case For Torture

Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:32 pm

Torture (to stick to the topic) shown on TV. This indeed reminds me of Odai Hussein who probably enjoyed to watch bodies bending from electrical shocks while having some beer and a cigar.

No, you would not prevent potential murders from killing for fear of being tortured. The only result would be a brutalized public, thus leading to an increase in violence.
The death penalty in the U.S. (pardon this shift) exist, because people want revenge. There is hardly a politican or attorny left who believes in the deterrence of the death penalty. Same would go for torture.

Typically enough, you mentioned the French revolution, where people became more and more used to public executions and finally demanded to see more. The whole situation turned into a "panem et circensem"-thing which has had nothing to do with a proper legal system.
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CHRISBA777ER
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RE: The Case For Torture

Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:18 am

I think you guys are getting torture and corporal punishment mixed up -

Corporal punishment is when pain is caused to a person in retribution, on as part of a punishment procedure.

Torture is where something is required or desired back from the unfortunate ie: a confession.

Personally i think they should bring back corporal punishment in schools, but i do NOT condone torturing kids, no matter how much you may want to stick the thumbscrews on the little punks...
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
NoUFO
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RE: The Case For Torture

Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:47 am

What is so sick about showing torture broadcatss on TV?????
It`s most likely not more violent than the average "Thriller" (...)


In your inability to tell fiction from reality it comes as no surprise you want to reinvent a legal system abandoned since centuries.
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TriStar500
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RE: The Case For Torture

Tue Jul 29, 2003 2:16 am

Some people here missed out some "great" job opportunities between 1933 and 45.

Gestapo members were also convinced they were torturing and killing just those people, who were unworthy of being part of the "Volksgemeinschaft".


Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
jhooper
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RE: The Case For Torture

Tue Jul 29, 2003 4:44 am

Tortue definitely shouldn't be used as a form of punishment, especially given the fact that we likely have scores of people on death row in this state (Texas) who didn't even commit their crimes.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
American_4275
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RE: The Case For Torture

Tue Jul 29, 2003 7:37 am

The author of this article did not say that torture should be used as a form of punishment. Instead, he said it was a way of minimizing the risk of "further evil". I think it's a good idea - I agree with a lot of what he said. However, as other people have mentioned, it seems that in such a case, the line would be thin. Where do we draw such a line without taking circumstance into consideration? Who makes such a decision?

American_4275
 
jhooper
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RE: The Case For Torture

Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:57 am

Just as long as it isn't John Ashcroft!
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
racko
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RE: The Case For Torture

Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:53 am

Actually, there was a very similar case in Frankfurt last year. A guy had kidnapped a young boy, and was caught by the police, but without the boy. The police had evidence that made it 99,9% clear that he was the one who kidnapped the kid. However, at the police office, he refused to name the place were he has hidden the child. The vice police president of Frankfurt, assuming little Jakob was still alive, threatened the kidnapper to torture him, telling him that a fight-sport expert was on the way and would give him "incredible pain". Suddenly, the mouth of the kidnapper was wide open and he disclosed the place. It turned out that he had already killed the boy. The policeman later said that he was fully aware that this could mean the end of his career.

The murderer has recently been sentenced to prison for lifetime.

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