Boeing4ever
Topic Author
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

Circumcision Part Tres

Sat Aug 09, 2003 1:57 pm

Well, I remember this topic was covered a long time ago...but now that we have had a recent influx of females, we can get more opinions on the subject.

Personally, I'm uncut and proud!

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
Soku39
Posts: 1731
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 7:16 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:16 pm

uh nothin to see here, move along.

[Edited 2003-08-09 07:26:16]
The Ohio Player
 
Boeing4ever
Topic Author
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:21 pm

Read: Alternate Title for this thread was "Lumberjacks-The Definitive Circumcision Thread"

B4e-Forever New Frontiers

[Edited 2003-08-09 07:24:06]
 
BartiniMan
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 8:14 pm

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sat Aug 09, 2003 3:34 pm

I dont see the point of circumsision. Afterall the foreskin on a penis is there to protect the head of the penis from any infections, seeing as its such a vital and sensitive part of the male anatomy. Why would you then go and expose this vital part to all the bacteria, dirt and filth that linger in the air. "Circumsison is cleaner" my ass..

If you're born with it then obviously there is a need for it.

BartiniMan


 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sat Aug 09, 2003 3:39 pm

I got it snipped when I was a youngn' I heard the foreskin contains a lot of bacteria.
Go big or go home
 
BartiniMan
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 8:14 pm

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sat Aug 09, 2003 4:01 pm

Fact:"Wearing headphones, especially the ones that are inserted into the ear, decreases air circulation in the ear canal, and creates the perfect environment for breeding bacteria. Having headphones on for only 1 hour increases the amount of bacteria in your ear by over 1000 times.

Studies have shown that wearing headphones for more than 1 hour raises the level of bacteria in the ear canal to the pont that it is actually audible. You can actually hear the millions of tiny bacteria reproducing and eating away at the lining of your inner ear canal"


Go and cut your ear off seeing as the ear "contains so much bacteria".

BartiniMan
 
buckfifty
Posts: 1278
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 4:05 pm

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sat Aug 09, 2003 4:13 pm

So far, what this thread has taught me is that I should never wear headphones around my balls.

Is that close enough?
 
T prop
Posts: 910
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 4:33 pm

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sat Aug 09, 2003 5:26 pm

So far, what this thread has taught me is that I should never wear headphones around my balls.

Is that close enough?


Buckfifty,

I almost fell off my chair! lol  Big thumbs up

T prop.
 
airplanetire
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 11:59 pm

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:14 pm

Circumcised and UNproud of it. It's a sickening and barbaric procedure with no real benefit but instead a whole slew of disadvantages. To name a few:

-the procedure is terribly painful
-there is no longer any skin to provide the gliding motion a foreskin allows
-the glans is left uncovered and dries up and looses sensitivity as a result (It is a mucous membrane. If the inside of your nose, just one mucous membrane in your body, dries up, it bleeds. Obviously mucous membranes shouldn't be exposed.)
-a bad circumcision can end up in a severely damaged penis
-in rare cases, death occurs as a result of circumcision
-there are thousands of specialized cells in the foreskin that CANNOT ever be recovered; there is foreskin restoration, but sadly it can only make a replica of the foreskin, not a real 100% genuine model, but at least there's some hope

Those are just some of the disadvantages to choosing circumcision. Why face a child with those disadvantages and potential life threatening risks in the name of a cleaner or better looking, in the minds of some, penis? One can claim a circumcised penis is cleaner, but most uncircumcised penises are fine. Save the circumcision until there is a problem where that is the ONLY option.

As corny as this might sound, I feel like a part of me is missing and I want it back. I was circumcised with no anaesthesia and all though I don't remember it, it was still most certainly a grizzly thing to go through. My mom could apparently hear me screaming in pain from way down the hall. Although I suffered no severe damage to my penis or did not die (obviously!), I could of and was circumcised for the senseless reason of looking like my dad. Should a son's leg be amputated because your's is? Then why should his foreskin be amputed? I still lost an important part of my body. One can say that a circumcised penis is fully functional, but who are you trying to kid? The fact that it take lubricant just so you don't hurt yourself while having sex or masturbation does not speak to full functionality. If you are circumcised, your penis is handicapped. It needs outside help to function correctly. An uncircumcised penis does not need this.

It may seem strange a boy that's 15, almost 16, seems to feel so passionately about this. Four out of six of my closest male friends are uncircumcised though and they're all horny as anything, so I've heard about the wonders of an uncircumcised penis. I got thinking and the more I thought, the more I realized that I had been robbed of something amazing. That's why I feel like I do, as weird as everything in this post might sound. Thanks for listening.

-Airplanetire
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:15 pm

We settled a botched circumcision case for a 30 year old man last year. After reviewing the file (and I hate to admit--making many inappropriate jokes), there was a discussion among our group regarding the relative benefits/disadvantages. Most have been discussed before...or mentioned on here.

One thing that did strike me odd was that the three female lawyers in my group (in their mid/late 20's) said they would not even consider going down on a guy who wasn't circumsized. I challenged them on this...and apparently in some locales/cultures/whatever this is very common. In fact, they went on to say how 'gross looking ' an uncircumcised unit was.....

Being Jewish I didn't have the option....so snip, snip.

Oh...btw the guy actually got his dick fixed as well as a decent $$ settlement (and please do NOT tell me that this was a frivolous lawsuit).
 
buckfifty
Posts: 1278
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 4:05 pm

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:22 pm

Bravo Airplanetire. Your pain is heartfelt.

Just to help you on your way, here's a special gift from all of us at A.net. Just make sure you don't apply too liberally, or it's like catching a fish out of water.



Don't forget to practice safe sex.
 
avt007
Posts: 1989
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2000 4:51 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sun Aug 10, 2003 12:06 am

OK, this isn't very PC, but I think those that feel abused, ripped off, mutilated, etc by being circumcised might have some reality issues. You have never known anything else, you only have other people telling you that you have been assaulted. How can you miss having a foreskin when you haven't the slightest idea of what it is like? As for the sensitivity issue, have you ever seen a product advertised that makes your penis more sensitive? "Come even earlier, guys!" How's that sound? On the other hand I have seen lots of creams to slow things down. Honestly it sounds to me like some people like to feel victimized and have someone to blame for their problems. Sorry if I've offended anyone, but that's how I feel as a circumcised male. BTW, my son isn't sliced, since I don't see any reason for it. But do I feel somehow cheated? Not in the least.
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sun Aug 10, 2003 12:19 am

Well...there must be something to it...hospitals readily set up the appt after birth unless the parents specify otherwise. Of the four births in our dept within the last two years...all opted for circumcision...based on the medical advice of their doctors.

I did learn an interesting fact: Cancer of the penis--although rare--has only occurred in uncircumcised individuals. Might be reason enough to do it!

Airplanetire: You have some serious issues or are absolutely obsessed with your dick. Relax..it's just a penis.
 Smile
 
f.pier
Posts: 1405
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 2:50 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sun Aug 10, 2003 12:33 am

I am uncut, here nobody is cut (except the case you need that surgery for health problems).

I like to be "whole".
 
American_4275
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 1999 1:11 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sun Aug 10, 2003 12:39 am

I'll say this much...we should all be uncircumcised. We were born with foreskin on our penises so it should damn well stay there. I'm circumcised though...and I can't say that I'm not necessarily happy that I am. I like the looks of my penis better than that of an uncircumcised....which is probably only because I'm used to the look of mine...but nevertheless I'm biased.



American_4275
 
buckfifty
Posts: 1278
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 4:05 pm

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sun Aug 10, 2003 12:43 am

Now we have penis aesthetics introduced into the equation.

This thread is getting more entertaining by the minute...
 
Shamrock1Heavy
Posts: 242
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 8:46 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:14 am

I am un-circumsized...and I LOVE IT! Easier...umm. "fun time with rosy palm and her five friends" My girlfriend prefers the look of an un-circumsized penis..

Plus we were born with it. So the function of it must be of some value.

-D
when in hell, we'll do shots at the bar
 
fly727
Posts: 1752
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:27 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:22 am

No one asked me nothing about it. I want it BACK!!!!  Laugh out loud
RM
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6789
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:43 am

buckfifty, great line!  Big thumbs up

" My girlfriend prefers the look of an un-circumsized penis..
Plus we were born with it.
I almost fell off my chair when I read that TOO quick! I read it as "we were both born with it."
------------------------------------------------------------

having said that, I'm missing the skin and really don't care about it. It's nice to know that some of me can contribute to stem cell research.

That I am marrying interfaith with a Jewish woman puts me at ease with the whole BRIS thing. While I really had no thought on if I were to have a son and what would be done, I was initally a little freaked to hear about this ceremont called a BRIS.

Then I saw Comedian Howie Mandel his son;s bris as: " We as Jews have this thing called a bris. We say COME on over!! We're having CAKE, we're having COFFEE, were slicing my son's dick!"

Once you hear it that way, it's all put into perspective.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
Shamrock1Heavy
Posts: 242
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 8:46 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:38 am

Mirrodie...lol, opps, should have made that clearer..."plus, I was born with it, and so were all men"

lol....oh man that is great

-D
when in hell, we'll do shots at the bar
 
Guest

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sun Aug 10, 2003 7:18 am

uncut, and happy to be... but really... I don't understand why you wanna know? But hey... whatever.
 
727_Gal
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2002 12:26 pm

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sun Aug 10, 2003 7:54 am

interesting topic, boys. i won't even pretend to know much about it! i've only seen circumsized, but i don't think i would think an uncircumsized one to be undesirable or anything like that. hmm. i don't know what else to say, so i'll end.  Smile
 
sleekjet
Posts: 2006
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2001 1:35 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sun Aug 10, 2003 8:08 am

As a guy who spends a lot of time in the Bible, I find the preoccupation of the Scriptures with circumcision quite incredible. Those folks were truly thinking about nothing else, it seems.
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
airplanetire
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 11:59 pm

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sun Aug 10, 2003 12:33 pm

Avt007, I can't speak for everyone that feels like I do, but I'll speak for myself. I was never fed any information about all of the advantages of not being circumcised and the disadvantages of being circumcised. I did research way after I started to feel like I was missing something and wanted it back. Now, about the reality problem. Perhaps you are correct, but let me ask you a question. If you had your thumb cut off when you were a few days old, so never knew what it was like to have one, wouldn't you feel like you were missing something or that you were ripped off? You would probably want to have a thumb. Without it you couldn't really write very easily, nor could you pick a lot of things up. You'd still have a hand and four fingers, but that hand would be handicapped. It could never work as well as it could with all fingers. It's a similar thing in my mind. A thumb, as a foreskin is, is there for a purpose and makes the body part that they are there for work like they are supposed to. Don't worry, I've read some things that angry circumcised peopel have written on anti-circumcision websites that are just plain scary. They want to kill their circumcisers. I'm not emotionally scarred from being circumcised. I am angry at no one, but rather feel that I am in a less than ideal position and would like to do something about it. I just want to empower myself.  Smile Is that so much to ask?

-Airplanetire
 
BOEING747-700
Posts: 1356
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 5:21 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:09 pm

I could care less what I have, as long as the women I am with are happy then I am happy. I have never had any problems in that department. I had my wang circumcized when I was a few days or day old. I am 23 years old and it was a very common thing back then, so the majority of my friends are that way too and people I see at the GYM as well.
 
cancidas
Posts: 3985
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:34 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:05 pm

i don't get it. this may just be the nastiest thing humans have ever done to themselves. EVER! what's the point of it? are there any positive effects to it? i say if you want it that way, pull the skin back.  Big grin

i'm not and like it that way. my gf doesn't like circumcised guys at all. so it leaves me wonder...

[Edited 2003-08-10 08:05:29]
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
Guest

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:14 pm

so the majority of my friends are that way too and people I see at the GYM as well.

Ummmm...so, you pay attention to these things?
 
BOEING747-700
Posts: 1356
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 5:21 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Sun Aug 10, 2003 11:59 pm

No Cpt, I use the changerooms at the YMCA, just like anynormal person does, you can't help but see that stuff when you are in the shower, and getting changed. I guess you must not workout that often.
 
buckfifty
Posts: 1278
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 4:05 pm

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Mon Aug 11, 2003 12:03 am

I see things in changerooms all the time too. But then I don't think I look that often to say definitively that most males who visit the YMCA had been circumcised.

So what is your sample size, and what is the percentage error of your poll?  Big grin
 
BOEING747-700
Posts: 1356
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 5:21 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Mon Aug 11, 2003 12:10 am

I don;t know if that is the case either, but just from what I have seen. Who knows, as long as they work people shouldn't care so much. You make do with what you have. All the women I have been with have never said anything about it to me. I dated a Portuguese girl once and I was the first guy she had seen with a circumcised penis and she said she liked it.  Big grin the are all the same! Its how you use them
 
avt007
Posts: 1989
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2000 4:51 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Mon Aug 11, 2003 1:18 am

Airplanetire-while I find my penis to be a useful and enjoyable piece of anatomy, it doesn't approach the complexity and daily usefulness of a thumb.(unless I'm using it wrong!) All power to you though, and I hope you find a solution. To those who say it must have a purpose since nature (or God) put it there, you have a point. However, the point of the appendix or gall bladder is unknown, and I've gotten on quite well without a foreskin or gall bladder, thank you!
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:15 pm

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Tue Aug 12, 2003 9:18 am

I say leave the happy hat on the man! From what I've read, most people in the US say they have their sons circumcised because "they should look like their dad" or "that's what is done". Not good reasons.

Take lips as an example. MOUTH lips! Compare the outside part of the lips to the inside. Hm, the inside is much more tender and sensitive, isn't it? Why would someone want to NOT have that kind of feeling?

I'm not going to talk about my personal experience because I don't want to embarass Mr. Harlot.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
But that was when I ruled the world
 
kevi747
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:59 pm

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Tue Aug 12, 2003 4:32 pm

Greg,

You never cease to amaze me!!!!!! You're a homosexual AND a lawyer!!! Not to mention living in Texas (why?) and Jewish. Where are you originally from?

Kevin
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:20 am

Los Angeles...born at St. Joseph's in Santa Monica....raised in Brentwood. Moved to Texas for a job.
Am able to practice law in CA, NV, NE, and TX.
I'll take the NY bar later this year.
Folks are still in L.A.
Would probably choose TX over many states...money goes much further here....
 
AC320
Posts: 2809
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:20 am

Actually, we do have a pretty good idea why we have an appendix, it seems to contain a large complex of lymphatic tissue, and so researchers speculate that it is somehow invovled in the recognition and immune response of food-borne antigens. however it should be noted that the appendix reaches its highest point of development right after birth, and then regresses as the subject ages, suggesting it is only particular important and/or neccessary at the beginning of one's life
fuddle duddle
 
Chgoan
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 5:38 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:27 am

HA! Fun topic.....can't say I've really thought about it that much. Maybe wondered what it would be like to have the foreskin back, but then move on to other things. I have to say to the eye....I prefer cut. Not much I can do about it now, so learn to live and play with what ya got! =) Works for me!
 
DoorsToManual
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:28 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:59 am

Hey guys

I saw this topic and thought  Insane "whatever"......then I got bored with the other topics Big grin

Actually, it is sort of interesting.

I was circumcised too. Why? Because my mother was a (non-practising!!) Jew (doesn't make sense does it...), and I guess she thought I ought to have it "shnipped". My father (baptised Anglican...) didn't have the balls to say "no", or he just didn't care...so it happened.

How do I feel? - I don't feel like I'm "missing" anything, although I do resent not having been asked (even if it wasn't possible as a baby - difficult to explain really)

I don't think there is any convincing reason for circumcision...IF I have male kids, I certainly won't be circumcising them.

And it really pisses me off to know that my weener has been rendered less sensitive....that's probably the worse aspect!!
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6789
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:09 am

Hey, as said on BLAZING SADDLES, you're gonna

SNIP De TIP??


Why not? Who cares really? Airplaneretire, I hope you find comfort somewhere.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
kevi747
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:59 pm

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:20 am

Yeah, DFW is very cheap. When I used to pay US$2450 a month for my Upper East Side 2 bedroom apartment I used to imagine the fabulous mansions I could be living in in Dallas.

Back to the subject, I'm cut but I've been with a guys that aren't. Sometimes I wish I wasn't. Uncut men seem to have much more sensitivity.
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
 
N766UA
Posts: 7843
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:39 pm

Mirrodie: I thought that was Robinhood Men in Tights?
This Website Censors Me
 
NWA
Posts: 1162
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2001 2:31 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:11 pm

all the girls say cut is best from what i have heard. when a girl wants to see the love wand, I feel better about it. if i was not cut, I would be a bit embarressed.
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
 
Chgoan
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 5:38 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Thu Aug 14, 2003 2:57 am

Kevi747...

I would rather play with a cut boy over an uncut boy.....

and someone noted above...too much sensitivity might not always be in your favor.....good point.
 
kimmykun
Posts: 412
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 7:00 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:56 am

I'm uncut and I've never been all that happy about it. If I could, I would have gone and been circumcized by now, but I still live at home, so, yeah, it's just a subject that no one in my family need know of.
 
vaporlock
Posts: 3528
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:22 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Thu Aug 14, 2003 7:58 am

Buckfifty, LOL, thanks for making my day!

I must admit as a female.......have never given it much thought!

I don't have a preference......what matters to me is if the guy can perform! With or without it, if he has what it takes that's just fine!  Big thumbs up

Phyllis  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


 
vaporlock
Posts: 3528
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:22 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:02 am

Ops! I almost forgot....some of us females refer to it as....a convertible or a hard top!

Phyllis  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
767ALLTHEWAY
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 1999 5:37 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Thu Aug 14, 2003 2:31 pm

A man walks into a watch and clock store, unzips his trousers and slaps his c*ck on the counter. The woman behind the counter doesn't bat an eyelid. She looks him straight in the eye and says "Put that away Sir, this is a clock shop - not a c*ck shop!" "Well," replies the man, "Why don't you put two hands and a face on it?"
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear"
 
767ALLTHEWAY
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 1999 5:37 am

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Thu Aug 14, 2003 2:32 pm

If im banned in a day, its cauze of that joke. Its not all that bad.
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear"
 
Boeing4ever
Topic Author
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Mon Aug 18, 2003 3:16 pm

Function over form in this instance judging by the responses from the A.net ladies.

Of course, one does have an advantage when he has a cowling for his turboshaft.  Big grin

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
BOAC
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:52 pm

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:51 pm

Having been both as an adult, I feel that I can speak authoritavly (I wish the spell checker could spell) on this subject - it matters not a lot. You can keep clean wither you are circumcised or not and as for sensitivity - how does anyone who has not been circumcised as an adult know whither they are more or less sensitive. All I can say without fear or favour it didn't hurt that much and only for a short (sorry) time!
 
AM744
Posts: 1435
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

RE: Circumcision Part Tres

Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:13 am

Been circumcized as an adult, all I can say is: It really worked for ME. Feel better, perform better, cleaner, girls like it... I always suspected that I needed it and it turned out that I really did. Of course I went through an extensive research period through the net before consulting with a specialist and it was amazingly difficult to find objective information, most of which was misleading and obviously posted by radically anti-circ groups. I was lucky to find a very competent doc. My life has definetely improved... If in doubt, you might consider cutting it. Some people NEED it.

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