UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 1:32 am

Seems like over the past few days, everyone has been on their period. I don't mean to take sides here, but the majority of the bitchiness has stemmed from the EU side. I haven't seen this many anti-US posts in a long time. The civil aviation forum is full of it, as well as this forum. Somehow, some way, every thread ends up with people from Europe yelling at Americans about how their country is flawed this way, or that. Take a browse through the forums, it's a true fact.

I guess my question is, why all the hate? Is it European culture to always be so negative towards people and have such negative things to say to them? I'd venture a guess to say that the majority of griping comes from the Europeans, with the American constantly having to defend himself. I find it interesting that the griping on the American side is ten times less, really! Take a look at some of the threads.

Is Europe really that perfect? Or are they just blinded by their own arrogance? Is America actually THAT BAD? I find that normal people really just don't give a rat's ass about half the stuff that is argued on this forum. Do some of us just need to get a life?

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 1:43 am

Do some of us just need to get a life?

You said it there, we all see to think we have the biggest dicks. My tactic is to simply ignore, we all have a degree of inferiority complex. Fact is, there are some things i like about America, there are some things i hate, at the same time there are some things i like abouth European countries and some things i hate. It's all a matter of personal opinion, and some of us seem to take every bit of criticism way too seriously. We also take politics way too seriously sometimes, it seems to be the be all and end all on life on earth. It's all a load of BS anyway, someone else's opinion is not always fact, it's just an opinion.
We need to relax more and learn to absorb criticism more than we currently do.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
jcs17
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RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 1:58 am

To answer your question, Europe is far from perfect...and so is the US. Although, I find that an American's attitude about improving the nation is usually far different from someone from Europe. An American tends to look at their nation itself and its own individual problems, and point their finger at American policies. Unfortunately, Europeans do the same thing...point the finger at America for their internal problems, for whatever reason---inferiority complex (although I dont think very many people are like this), insecurity, failure to admit wrongs...whatever it may be. America gets fingered for every problem.

Another thing I have noticed is that people say I dont hate America, I just hate that "cowboy", GW Bush. I hate to say it, but we live an a country of free elections...and through the electoral college, Bush was elected. And make no mistake a.net member, Bush is still a popular president despite the majority of liberal American members on this board. I mean how many times do we really tear in to Chirac or Schroeder? Many Europeans have a difficult time dealing with a someone whose world views differ from theirs, and therefore they (most of the time) will hate any conservative president. They disliked Bush I, hated Reagan, and now abhore good ol' W. Through the eliteist European press and the upper strata of European society the Euros have been conned into thinking that they are superior to America. Nobody is superior to anyone, both societies have their positives and negatives.

I mean, did anyone else catch that quote from a Belgian user that went something along the lines of, "I know I'm right, and I know GW Bush is wrong." That pretty much sums up many European's world view, very little understanding of American policy, and therefore many Europeans stereotype the American people as "wrong."

[Edited 2003-08-10 19:01:41]
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
jcs17
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RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:04 am

Another thing, it seems that for every European user who has their qualms with American policy but still recognizes the strengths of America and the quality of the American people, there are about four others who believe that the American people are "ignorant, stupid" and believe the US should be subservient to European policy.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:20 am

Although I don't like Bush whatsoever, I agree with most of what you said JCS.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
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RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 3:22 am

and believe the US should be subservient to European policy.

Actually I feel the totally opposite: it's like we are subservient to American policy.

How I see it...

9/11: a lot of respect came from Europe to the circumstances in America on this cruel day. I never saw everyone coming together, and looking at the TV, with a face filled of unbelief.

When I first heard it (several hours after it happened), I did not believe it. It really took a lot of time.

Bush started his war on terrorism, and I understood his decision. Cleaning the WTC area and forget everything was something he could not do. So he went into Afghanistan (I did not hear people calling bush a wardog in that time, so calling us all pacifists is untrue).

But than... bush started to give us, Europeans, a feeling like "we are world's superpower, and you, little Europe, will do whatever the big empire wants (even supported by the guy from reply 2 and 3)".

This all ended in the famous Iraq war, where a lot of countries agreed on the war against terror, but not with the war in Iraq. We got to hear: 'you are either with us or against us'. France was opposed to the war, this resulted in hatress from the Americans. Also hatress from the side of the Europeans when we heard that, if we opposed to the war or not, the war would go on anyway, even with the false presentation of Powell. Powell even told to Belgium: 'It becomes time that Belgium shuts up'. Do you expect us to agree with this (no wonder that more than 90% of the Belgians is against the war in Iraq).

The bush diplomatics has upset so many people, that several of them (not including me) are generalizing bush to the American people these days. Of course it doesn't help if you have to read over here that some people clearly agree with bush, who wants to punish us, Europeans, for being anti this war. An example is removing the military base from FRA, because Germany was against the war. Do you understand that we see this as arrogance?

Something that several bush lovers should have to do, is think like this: 'if I would be European, and bush would talk about Europe in such an arrogant tone, would I like it?'

I think I know the answer...

Americans are hating Airbus these days, I still have to talk with the first European hating Boeing. If I read replies like 'I hate Airbus', 'Every Airbus order is fraudulent',..., isn't it normal that we are asking us questions about the attitude of some people? Do you think that I don't drink coca cola anymore because I dislike bush? No, but the French wine sold in America + tourism to French dropped, because France his anti-war stance.

Regards
Frederic (anti-bush, anti the Iraq war, not anti-America)
 
Jaspike
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RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 3:32 am

Well done Ual747, you might just have created another topic on the same subject.

Josh
 
DoorsToManual
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:28 am

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 3:34 am

One suggestion is that perhaps the American members of this forum underestimate the extent to which Europeans are informed of politics, not just in their own back yard, but on the global stage.

The "problem" might partly be due to the fact that many Europeans are passionately against the Bush doctrine, when applied to the world of foreign affairs. This is totally different from criticising "Americans", but inevitably this hatred of the current US administration's foreign policy doctrine spills over into general (but not genuine) dislike for anything American.

Some make more efforts than others to stress that they are simply against Bush, not the people.

Europe has a strong tradition of political, but also general dissent. Accepting authority unquestioningly, simply because it is "authority" is seen as highly naive, if not dangerous.

Patriotism, US-style, does not really exist in Europe - people don't really see the point. That's why you'll find the European press - and its people - much more critical than is perhaps the case in the US...

Just an idea. I ain't European, so I might well be wrong on this...
 
teva
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RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:01 am

Just a few questions for one single reply?
Which country has helped the USA to be indepandant?
Which country has never been at war with the USA?
From which country was the first head of a state visiting NewYork after Sep11?

Being friend doesn't mean agree on everything the other says, nor be a vassal. The day some people realize this, they will discover that relationship between the USA and the country above are good
Teva
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:03 am

Sabena....

Who says they hate airbus? I seriously doubt any significant amount of Americans on this board have actually stated such things.
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Schoenorama
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RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:19 am

I think 'DoorsToManual' has summed it up very good indeed!

I should emphasize that at least my 'anti US Government' posts are just that; anti US Government! Unfortunately, far too many people take this personally.
Also, equaling one's anti-Bush threads to hating all Americans just goes too far.

Another, not less important thing is that people should realise that as Europeans (or other non-US nationals) are not able to ellect US presidents, his decisions do affect their lifes personally (Kyoto, Iraq).

I'm affraid that, as long as the US maintains to be the sole superpower in the world, and as long as this administration completely ignores the rest of the World, this kind of criticism will continue.
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
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RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:44 am

Josh, with all respect, I don't see Europeans demanding U.S. subserviance to European policy. What I do see is the world asking the U.S. to be less unilateral, and more open to diplomacy in the post-war climate. Even you can't say that the Bush Administration gave diplomacy a fair shake before the war, because it was just pushed aside in the rush for war.

The U.S. will never be subserviant to European policy, and everyone on here knows that, but with this "punish France, Germany and Belgium" attitude that you and so many who support this neocon madness in Washington, you sure seem to think that Europe should damn well tow the American line, or face punishment of our choosing. Now, who is asking subserviance of whom, son?
 
kevi747
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RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:11 am

I agree with DoorstoManual as well. Europeans have a much broader worldview than Americans.

When I'm laying over in Europe the news channels are so much more comprehensive and they include important political and economic stories from around the world.

American journalism sucks. In the US its all fluff pieces about what consumer product could kill you, "investigative" pieces about small time crooks who con people, or entertainment news about what J. Lo and Ben are up to. It's such a joke. Of course, there are some reputable exceptions. But many more Americans watch local "action" news than The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer.
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
 
teva
Posts: 1764
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 12:31 am

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:39 am

Read this copy paste of another thread:
"Username: B757300
From United States, joined Dec 2000, 2541 posts, RR: 51
Reply: 2
Posted Sun Aug 10 2003 22:06:35 UTC+1 and read 24 times:

Wow, that's just a typical summer day in Texas.

"I think its George W. Bush's fault. [Laugh out loud] "

Within the next 5 replies, someone will blame Bush for this. After that, the thread will turn to Kyoto, and then people from certain countries commenting on how backwards the U.S. is.

RE: Temps In London Hit 100 For The First Time Ever!
Username: NKP S2
From United States, joined Dec 1999, 1061 posts, RR: 44
Reply: 3
Posted Sun Aug 10 2003 22:15:58 UTC+1 and read 16 times:

B757300: "Within the next 5 replies, someone will blame Bush for this. After that, the thread will turn to Kyoto, and then people from certain countries commenting on how backwards the U.S. is"

I was musing the same thing as I read/scrolled...and I second the bet you'll be correct in your prediction...except you left out the part about Ronald Reagan being responsible for the proliferation of A.I.D.S. or whatever."


This topic is about hot summer in Europe. There is nothing against the USA in the discussion, but 2 people make those comments. I will take them as jokes. But don't be surprised if some people find them very arrogant.
And I am quite sure they will start to get those reactions.
Teva
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:56 am

Teva, the comment was made in jest. However, there is some truth to the fact that some Americans here, including myself, think that quite a few Europeans on here are always foaming at the mouth for a chance to knock the USA. You know it's true. I don't care if you disagree, but hell, you guys don't ever give up and just reckognize there are differences. It's your opinion or else.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
EGGD
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RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:01 am

I agree there is alot of bitching,

I don't agree that its mostly Europeans that are doing it, I think its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

Unfortunetely I've found that people tend to argue on internet message boards EVERYWHERE about every fucking thing. It really annoys me that people can't get along and just have fun rather than always getting at each others throats.

I think if we had the same conversations in person we wouldn't be at each others throats, but because we can't see face to face we don't know how a person is acting when he is saying something, so if you see words on your screen you may react differently to if it was spoken by someone..

Don't ask me why, seems most people seem to think that anything written is a malicious and direct attack on them...
 
cancidas
Posts: 3985
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RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:04 am

there are americans that hate europe. myself and a french freind of mine were run off the road in prescott, az buy a dumb redneck who simply did not like the bumper sticker on my freinds car. even once the police arrived he did not refrain from saying every stupid thing he could about how europe is crap and the us is grand. i don't think he realize what he was saying, because he had an irish flag in his window. as long as there are idiots like that out there, there will be friction between europe and the us.

i think that europe should stay out of american affairs and the vice versa. that will be the best solution.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:05 am

Maybe he thoughts Ireland was part of the US?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
charleslp
Posts: 321
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RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:14 am

I was hoping I didn't have to do this, but y'all leave me no choice:

http://engforum.pravda.ru/forumdisplay.php3?s=&forumid=4

If you think the anti-Americanism is bad here (there's not much of it), wait until you read some of the threads at the link. But, then again, that IS a Russian-based website.
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
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RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:19 am

btw Ual747 - You obviously don't understand it but you are being anti-European in your original post. You are saying that Europeans are attacking Americans and Americans are having to defend themselves, but you are doing exactly the same.

Most people only see things they don't like, there are just as many Americans doing the same, you just don't notice it because you agree with them.

Just give it a rest, I think we all need to look from both sides of the pond rather than through our own rose-tinted glasses.
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:30 am

Rose tinted glasses my ass. I'm an international studies major. I think I can see from both sides of the ocean better than the average American or European.
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
DFWLandingPath
Posts: 208
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RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:37 am

Teva: You wrote that:
"Just a few questions for one single reply?
Which country has helped the USA to be indepandant?
Which country has never been at war with the USA?"

I really don't think that you can consider these fair or even relevant questions. Yes France helped the US gain its independence, but it was gained from England and yet we don't hate them. You state that France has never been at war with the US, and while true.... I pose to you the questions of 'Who libirated the French from the Nazis?' and 'What country provided France with $2.7 Billion between April 3, 1948 and June 30, 1952 in order to rebuild the country, also known as the Marshall Plan?'

I don't mean for this reply to be inflammatory, but I just thought that I would present the other side. I would also like to say that I personally love France, spent all of June there, and can't wait to go back. I say this to rule out any personal bias.

Cheers,
DFWLandingPath
 
charleslp
Posts: 321
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 9:33 am

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:41 am

Okay, since we're all on the topic of Europeans and Americans, I have a few questions:

1. Were there any Europeans who wanted the US to lose the War in Iraq?

2. Does anyone care if "French Fries" are called "Freedom Fries?"

3. Does anyone care if Americans boycott French goods or the French boycott American goods?

4. Are Americans who visit Europe looked at as "morons" or as an inferior ethnic group?

5. Does anybody trust the USA (excluding the Bush Administration) anymore?

6. Is the Bush Administration being too overbearing on the rest of the world?

7. If there was ever a war between the USA and China (hypothetical question) which side would the EU choose?
 
emiratesa345
Posts: 2043
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 10:11 am

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:57 am

"but we live an a country of free elections..."

What a crock. We all know that the Florida votes were flawed. Gore would have been president, there wouldn't have been all this mess with Iraq, and everything would have been just as good as when Clinton was in office.

EmiratesA345  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:11 am

"Get your head out of your ass"

Typical response to someone of a differing opinion.
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 1:27 pm

What a crock. We all know that the Florida votes were flawed. Gore would have been president, there wouldn't have been all this mess with Iraq, and everything would have been just as good as when Clinton was in office.

Way off my friend. The economy would still have gone down, 9/11 would still have occurred, and the Iraq war, IMO, would only have been delayed. Started in March '04 instead probably. Also, and independent group counted up the Florida ballots and found that Dubya did in fact win that state.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
DoorsToManual
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:28 am

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:22 pm

Okay, since we're all on the topic of Europeans and Americans, I have a few questions:

1. Were there any Europeans who wanted the US to lose the War in Iraq?

I doubt it. But that doesn't equate to supporting the cause of that war (which is still unclear, given the fact that WMDs (the main justification for the war)) have not yet been found.

2. Does anyone care if "French Fries" are called "Freedom Fries?"

Not really. I guess it's just depressing to hear that mature adults can act in such a childish way.

3. Does anyone care if Americans boycott French goods or the French boycott American goods?

Beyond small-scale, individual boycotts with no effect, and which will eventually wither away after resigned boredom sets in: no.

4. Are Americans who visit Europe looked at as "morons" or as an inferior ethnic group?

Unfortunately, yes; a popular pass-time in Europe seems to be laughing at Americans for their apparent "moronic tendencies". It seems to be, "we'll take your consumer goods, but not your culture". This in itself, is an example of European ignorance and hypocrisy.

5. Does anybody trust the USA (excluding the Bush Administration) anymore?

Sure. I don't think the grudge against the Bush administration is used as an excuse to be nasty to an American, face-to-face. Relations would be the same at that leval, as with all other nationalities. Europeans still flock to the states (whatever some principalled members on this forum might say  Big grin ). They might hate Bush, but they ain't gonna let that spoil their holiday to San Fran.

6. Is the Bush Administration being too overbearing on the rest of the world?

That's too difficult a question for me to want to answer. Let someone else have a go!

7. If there was ever a war between the USA and China (hypothetical question) which side would the EU choose?

Depends on a million things.....if China attacked for example, whether the US attacked first, for what reasons....don't expect Europe to fight wars that you started...that is a completely unreasonable expectation, especially if Europe disagrees with the cause...just because Europeans are your allies (and yes, they are), it doesn't give you the right to force them into wars they don't agree with. That is something that many Americans don't understand, and I don't know why.

rgds
 
rabenschlag
Posts: 1011
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 10:28 pm

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:34 pm

it is hard to tell who is worse in bitching. i think it would take a great effort to come to valid data, e.g. analyzing posts in forums or articles in newspapers.

however, let me tell you that, in germany (since 1945), i never read an article so humiliating, so chauvinistic, and so misinformed as the following trouvaille from the new york post:

quote

LET 'EM EAT WURST By RALPH PETERS

July 13, 2003 -- MY heart breaks: Sniffing in Teutonic superiority, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder has cancelled his Italian vacation! Apart from the fact that Italy, the home of grace and beauty, doesn't need any more loud, fat krauts polluting its environment, there's an even more important matter involved: Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi doesn't take any crap from Eurocrats and the self-righteous sons and daughters of the SS. Informed that Germany's answer to Bill Clinton wasn't going to grace bella Italia with his presence this year, Super-Silvio shrugged and said, "Too bad for him." Berlusconi nailed it. An embarrassing not-quite-secret is that German politicians can't wait to abandon Deutschland for vacations in Tuscany or Umbria. (Schroeder's foreign minister, Joschka Fischer, almost qualifies for Italian citizenship.) Yet the Germans remain deeply bigoted toward Italians (and toward all Europeans who live south of the Alps - "Not our kind, Dahhling . . ."). Forget the fact that the German contribution to the Renaissance was the realization that you could fit more beer in a bigger mug. The Germans still regard Italians as Untermenschen, fit to run a neighborhood pizzeria, but not to have an equal say in the future of Europe. Berlusconi isn't playing along. The Italian prime minister isn't a member of the snitty little club of European politicians who spend their adult lives commuting between Brussels, Strasbourg and their own capitals. He comes from the business world, where men and women actually have to accomplish things. And Super-Silvio accomplished plenty. Berlusconi is also a refreshingly direct man who speaks his mind (no wonder he and President Bush get along). After 9/11, he broke a European taboo and suggested that Arab religious extremists might be partly to blame for terrorism. Of course, he was jeered at by all the café dwellers wrinkling their precious little brows along the banks of the Seine or the Spree.

More recently, after being needled by a member of Germany's Green Party (a German Green is a Gestapo wannabe with a red paint-job), Berlusconi put on that I-know-how-to-earn-my-own-living-and-you-don't smirk that drives the Eurocrats nuts. And he suggested that his German colleague might be better employed playing a concentration camp guard in a movie currently being filmed about the Nazi era. All of northern Europe - well, the politicians and bureaucrats, anyway - was mortified. You see, one of the elementary rules of the European Union is that Germans can never be called "Nazis." It's just fine for Germans to call Prime Minister Sharon or President Bush a Nazi - that's not name-calling, it's legitimate political speech. But for an Italian to compare a German political hack to a Nazi? Mais non, monsieur! Nein! Who says European culture isn't entertaining anymore? Well, there was a great deal of back-and-forth, with the grown-up Italians trying to offer the little German babies a few verbal pacifiers. (One Italian undersecretary even resigned after telling some impolite truths about the Germans.) But when the German and French apparatchiks coiled around each other and insisted that Berlusconi's remark proved he wasn't fit to serve out Italy's present six-month turn in the EU presidency, the Italians finally had enough. The message was clear: Ain't nobody down in the Tuscan hills forcing Fritz and Frieda to drink their 1997 Brunello di Montalcino Riserva. And Italians aren't going to put up with that Aryan superiority complex anymore. Poor Gerhard may have to settle for that incomparable paradise on earth, Dusseldorf in July. Of course, other Germans will continue to flock to Italy. And, just now, with tourism down world-wide, the Italian hospitality industry can use the business. So the elegant Italians just have to grit their teeth as Hans and Hilda slop marinara sauce over the shirts they've both worn for three days running, argue about the bill, then skip the tip. But, in the long run, when the tourist industry picks up again and more Americans - grateful for all that Italy has given us - return to bella Italia, perhaps more Italian hotel and restaurant owners can subtly let Fabulous Fritz know that there's no room at the inn for anybody who shows up wearing Jesus boots (that combination of sandals and dark wool socks so beloved by northern Europeans). Think it won't happen? Think again. Let me share two incidents from the family travel diary. Several years ago, in Verona, I made the mistake of speaking German to a companion as we entered a restaurant. The manager swiftly informed us that there were no more tables. When I expressed my regret in broken Italian and English, his expression changed entirely. After asking if I was American, he apologized and seated us at a perfect table, then sent over a special wine for us to try. Over the decades, Americans have turned into pretty sophisticated travelers. We're no longer the noisiest or the most demanding. On the contrary, we're friendly and really want to appreciate what foreign countries have that we don't. If anything, we apologize too much. Last month, my wife and I went back to Rome, one of the world's greatest cities - ranking right between Manhattan and (God, I hate to admit this) Paris. And my long-standing belief that the Ugly American has long since given way to the Ugly German was confirmed in spades. I'll never forget sitting with the love of my life over drinks on the Piazza Navona in the late afternoon light, enjoying each other's company and people-watching, when a German couple seized the table next to us, ignoring the host's greeting and cramming their abundant bodies against us under a cloud of cigarette smoke. The grunting, barking duo were a mockery of all things decent about humankind. The woman, about 60 and grotesquely fat, wore a skimpy Shakira halter top and short-shorts. Her appearance was a crime against humanity, far too gross for an old Fellini film. I still have nightmares. And horrible Hermann - in his Jesus boots - gave orders in the same voice that Obersturmbahnfuehrer Schultz must have used in Rome 60 years ago. And they both smelled. Master race, my Schickelgruber. I don't think Italy is going to miss Gerhard Schroeder. Maestro Berlusconi's outburst did his country a great service. It was an act of purification. Ciao, bella Italia!


Ralph Peters is a frequent contributor to The Post and the author of "Beyond Terror: Strategy in a Changing World."


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DoorsToManual
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:28 am

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:08 pm

Hey, don't "diss" the NY Post!

I read it with the same frame of mind that I use when reading The Daily "let's boycott Greek produce" Mail here in Britain!  Laugh out loud

Some papers you read for thoughtful analysis...others are just for amusement!
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:37 pm

Typical response to someone of a differing opinion.

What the hell? I wrote a perfectly sensible response, which you just blew off without a thought with your 'holier than thou' opinion. According to you, its all the Europeans fault, because you can't see the fault of people you agree with, because you think you are right.

I think I was perfectly entitled to respond like that, because you are the typical 'arrogant American' that so often get these arguments started (I think, justified by this thread).

Why don't you think about what other people are saying instead of thinking you are right all the time?
 
Andreas
Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:26 pm

Hey hey hey, that was a joke I guess, nothing more or less. And if not, this moron didn't have sex for at least 2 months, his wife didn't let him have a go in Italy, because she prefers papagalli, a cute German girl sitting close by, probably laughed in his face before he came to terms with her, and his stomach ache is killing him and he still doesn't have the money for a penis prolongation. So he went and put his misery in words, changing a little bit the truth so that it fits to his situation...it is though pretty stupid to publish such product of mental unhealthiness.

...well at least I hope he feels better now...
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
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RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:40 pm

But than... bush started to give us, Europeans, a feeling like "we are world's superpower, and you, little Europe, will do whatever the big empire wants (even supported by the guy from reply 2 and 3)".

While Europe continues to rely on the US for military power,this will be the case.
 
keesje
Posts: 8595
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:25 am

I hate the constant Euro Bashing I see all over the site, it´s unjust.

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy

hmm I guess W Bush and his necons cannot be held responsible for an enormous rise in popularity of US policy..

had Gore been there probably the situation probably would have been different ...

stop wining
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
charleslp
Posts: 321
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RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:33 am

I guess the USA and the EU have a love/hate relationship.
 
Leezyjet
Posts: 3540
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RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:13 am

"What a crock. We all know that the Florida votes were flawed. Gore would have been president, there wouldn't have been all this mess with Iraq, and everything would have been just as good as when Clinton was in office.

Way off my friend. The economy would still have gone down, 9/11 would still have occurred, and the Iraq war, IMO, would only have been delayed. Started in March '04 instead probably. Also, and independent group counted up the Florida ballots and found that Dubya did in fact win that state.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers"

Suggest you read the book "Stupid White Men" my friend, I've just started to read it and it details all the ways in which the election was rigged by Bush and his cronies.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
Eric505
Posts: 565
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RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:35 am

Isn't "Stupid White Men" by that idiot Michael Moore?

http://www.mathrec.org/schaefer/commentary/fl-2000.html

For better or worse, Bush won.
Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?

Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:56 pm

Suggest you read the book "Stupid White Men" my friend, I've just started to read it and it details all the ways in which the election was rigged by Bush and his cronies.

Suggest you ditch Micheal Moore and find an INDEPENDENT source, as opposed to a slanted left-wing puclication.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers

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