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Jetsgo
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BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:37 am

Out of the BMW M5, Mercedes Benz E55 AMG, and Audi RS6, which appeals to you the most? Hearse how I see it.

3) Audi RS6 - 0-60mph 4.4 sec - 1/4 mile 12.8@108mph - This in my opinion does the least for me. Sure it has great acceleration and handling, but its not the best. With its 450hp engine, your sure to beat the annoying teenager in his Civic Big grin

2) BMW M5 - 0-60mph 4.9 sec - 1/4 mile 13.5@108mph - Two word easily describe this car: totally bitchin  Big thumbs up With a manual transmission, excellent braking (70-0 in 164 ft), this car is definitely one to look at.

1) Mercedes Benz - 0-60mph 4.5 sec - 1/4 mile 12.5@116mph - Could you imagine pulling up to a stop light in your 469hp full size sedan next to a Vette Z06 and beating in on the 1/4 mile??? What could put more of a smile on your face. With this car, you have very little to worry about the car next to you who will try and pass you. My #1 overall pick

What would your opinions be on these 3 cars?

Chris

P.S. All road test info came straight from Car & Driver
Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
 
Greg
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:45 am

When I bought my M5 last year the RS6 did not exist. I understand it's a sweet ride...but the the A6 is not an attractive looking car in my opinion. It also does not have the status of a BMW.

The Mercedes has great stats...but have you driven one? It just doesn't click when put together. It is not a great handling car. And it's for folks over 40.
 
MD-90
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:57 am

Buy the S6 Avant and kill the ricers in a shaggin' wagon!
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:07 pm

The look on their faces would be absolutely priceless  Confused

 Big thumbs up

Chris
Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
 
flyf15
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:14 pm

I'd definately go for the RS6 myself....if I had that kind of money. I've been shopping for something a little more in my price range lately, a used S4.
 
ren41
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:18 pm



R41
 
sccutler
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:59 pm

Not a loser in the bunch; for pure driving dynamics, it's gotta be the BMW.

For overall performance and quality, the Audis have it. Love the way BMW drives; hate the way little parts and pieces always falling off.

Seems to me that the Benz has lost its edge.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
American_4275
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:06 pm

I'll tell you this much.

My dad has a 99 Mercedes E430 with the sport package. The power is awesome and the handling is PHENOMENAL! I can only IMAGINE how good the E55 is. The E430 effortlessly hits 60 and the gear shifting is so smooth.

I would LOVE to drive an E55.

American_4275
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:07 pm

E55. If it's anything like the CLK55, it would be an absolute hoot. There is something to be said for pulling up next to boyracers in the CLK and having them look at this 'staid' coupe next to them, and then smoking them off the light...especially as a girl! I don't agree with Greg's comment that the E55 is for folks over 40. It's also for practical, enthusiast people in their 20s and 30s.

I just washed my CLK tonight...what a great looking car. BMWs have always seemed kinda generic to me, and the Audi doesn't do much for me.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
cancidas
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:37 pm

i say the RS6. that car kicks ass. a freind of mine has an S4. if that is anything like the RS6, then there is no other choice but to get one. Big grin i admit, the cokpit was a bit cramped for me and i had a hard time getting my knees to fit. but then again i'm a big guy.

if anyone wants to see a video of a kick ass RS6 avant, email me.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
zeus01
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:11 pm

M5, maybe because i own one (much older of course).

I think its funny how Benz and Audi still havn't managed to create a naturally aspiated car that can take on BMW. And, the 05 V-10 M5 will undoubtably blow away the comptetition just like the current M5 did a few years back. Then the others will just have to play tag along again, few more turbos, bigger supercharger.

However, second would be the Benz. Looks decent, and AMG cars are something special.

The RS6 is a great car, but for me it just lacks something. If i was gonna get a Audi, id get a S8. Now, THAT is kick ass car.


out of curiosity, American, can you even drive yet?
 
ryanb741
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Tue Aug 19, 2003 7:40 pm

Audi all the way - a far better engine and a more refined ride. Plus they don't have the w*nker image of BMW's and Mercs. I'm looking to buy the new S3 when it is released.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
mika
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Tue Aug 19, 2003 7:49 pm

Audi is too anonymous (sp?) for my taste so i'd go merc or BMW any day. The RS6 looks almost like a standard souped up A6.
 
racko
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:37 pm

BMW M5. When it comes to pure driving, it still beats the competitors. The new E55 has an amazing sound though. The RS6 is pure understatement, especially the Avant. Probably the best car for a family.

But wait until the new M5 appears, V10, about 550 HP (and that is witout Turbo or Kompressor!) and less weight than the previous model.
 
flight152
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Wed Aug 20, 2003 5:17 am

Seems to me that the Benz has lost its edge.

Are you kidding me, Sccutler? This is the first year Mercedes has even been able to come close to the performance of its rivals (mainly the M5). Three years ago the M5 outpaced the E55 in nearly evey category. If you skip to 2003, it competes neck to neck with the M5.

Lost its edge? Hardly.
 
BarfBag
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:05 am

Ahem.. while you guys throw around your opinions, here's a survey of all three, plus the Jaguar S-type R: http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=6567

Final ranking:
4. Jaguar S-type R
3. Mercedes CL55 AMG
2. BMW M5
1. Audi RS6 Big grin

[smug grin] so there [/smug grin]

- a very happy A4 owner  Big grin
 
ryanb741
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:11 am

Audi never gets the credit it deserves. When the S4 came out it p*ssed all over the BMW M3 at the time. The RS6 Avant is stupidly quick also. But if you want a true saloon supercar, check out the new Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII. That would make fun of anything this side of a Lamborghini Murcialago.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
khi747
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:01 am

No comparison....weather its looks or the sheer power...it has to be the new E55 AMG...infact it would be one of the 5 cars in my perfect garage. The car has more torque then anything in its competition and when you drive a car, the higher the torque the more fun you have.....and this car has simply a neck snapping amount of it....
Several magazines have compared the 4 sedans....S type R , E55 , M5 and RS6 and i do remember either Road and Track or Motortrend rating as E55 as the comfortable winner.....a guy i know just got it and it is sooooooo nice both from inside and outside..hes 22 and no way is it a 40+ year old person car!!!! The car is as fast as a Ferrari 360 Modena guys....and it has better luxury then most cars....so just put that in perspective...and until the new 2005 500Hp M5 comes out this car really doesnt have any competition in this class....
 
racko
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:20 am

When you compare these 3 great cars, it always depends what you really want. That will determine who wins.

True Sport: M5
Comfortable Autobahnrunner: E55
Compromise: RS6

The Jaguar does not belong their, they always failed to meet the standards the big 3 set.
 
MD-90
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:04 am

For my $80,000 to $100,000K or so, frankly I'd rather have a Progressive Aerodyne Searey, a paraglider, and maybe a nice Kolb Mark III Xtra or Merlin EZ-Flyer II.

And, say, a used WRX wagon.
 
zeus01
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:22 pm

I don't know how you can say that the E55 has outpaced the M5. The current M5 is several years behind both of these cars and competes head on with both of them (despite being a oudated design in comparison). And keep in mind, its a NATURALLY aspriated engine.

Racko is right, Jaguar and the Volvo Type R (the other competitor) don't match the power and stats of the big three.


The Mitsubishi Evo VIII???? Please, mistsu ego trip.
 
Greg
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 12:37 am

The E55 can likely to the 0-60 faster than an M5...but the car is a compromise in terms of handling. I know, I've driven one and I own the other. Not many of you can say that (to my knowledge there are only two other M5 owners on this forum).

Plus, the E-class mercedes looks just like the C-Class...and CL class...and the CLK class...so it's hardly distinctive.

And yes, the demographics for MB buyers is considerable older than those for BMW (so it is, your father's Chrysler your driving!).

M5 rocks.
BMW rules.
 
ryanb741
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 12:59 am

Umm Zeus01 - are you trying to say that the Lancer Evo VIII is anything but a phenomenal car!??! It's the highest performance saloon by a mile. Actually, make that 10 miles. It's a phenomenal car - trust me I have a R34 Skyline and the EVo murders that!
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
khi747
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 2:06 am

Greg:
I think we all know you by now you have a M5 and it is a great car....but please come on now get over it....its a M5 not a Ferrari 360 ...what basis do you have to say the new E55 is a compromise over on handling???? You say have driven the E55 but i assume you are talking about the older, not the 2004 one. Any way you look at it....whether its the handling, peformance and looks the new E55 AMG is much superior car to the great M5 which is now fast becoming outdated...i say this Greg as i have driven the previous E55 , the current E55 and 4 M5's (3 friends in college and one test drive when i was buying a car)....the new E55 is sensational just for the addictive torque it has to offer..let alone everything else....I dont see how the E class looks like the CL(specially) or C class....it certainly doesnt look the same to me...it certainly is the best looking car in this class right now...you could make an argument that in the USA(only) the demographics of MB buyers are older then BMW but that does not apply to certain models and the E55 is one of them..young people love that car...
 
flyf15
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 2:22 am

I'm going to have to go with Greg on this one. The fact is that most of you never have driven or own any of these cars. Due to that, it boils down to what you've read about it (specs, reviews, etc) and your experiences with it (seeing pictures, being roasted by one at the dragstrip, hearing stories from your buddies, etc). With that you can do no more than form an opinion. BUT, that means others can form equally valid opinions on what they know that are no better or no worse than yours. Nothing wrong with stating it, but don't get in an arguement over it.
 
Guest

RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:26 am

Having driven an E55, I must say I am now totally in love with all Mercedes products and will by a S600 AMG.  Big thumbs up


Does anyone have 124,000 USD that I can have?

 
JAL777
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:29 am

What's an S600 AMG?  Confused

Reguardless, while those cars are all nice, I'd be happy with an S4 or M3.  Smile

[Edited 2003-08-20 21:36:15]
 
Greg
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:37 am

I quite amazed at the one poster (I should say im-poster) that has THREE friends in college with M5's. I don't believe it for a second. I went to an ivy league school and it was rare to find more than a handful of heavy metal vehicles in the parking lots.

And yes, I have driven the 2004 E55.

I'm not the only person having trouble telling them apart, the sales agent walked to two different cars (a CLK and then a C series) trying to find the silver E55. So, I'm guessing if someone who sells them EVERYDAY has problems with initial identification...then to the passing motorist it's even more confusing.

I'm not saying it's a bad car. But a big engine does not make a vehicle. It's the overall balance and driving experience that counts. In that area, BMW has always had it over Mercerdes. Am I sure about it? Absolutely. Both my parents have S class yatchs that I drive with some regularity. While nice...I'd take a 7-series anyday!

My deposit is already on my 2005 M5. You're right..it's not a 360. I'll be looking at those in my rear view mirror.
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 5:31 am

"1) Mercedes Benz - 0-60mph 4.5 sec - 1/4 mile 12.5@116mph - Could you imagine pulling up to a stop light in your 469hp full size sedan next to a Vette Z06 and beating in on the 1/4 mile??? What could put more of a smile on your face. With this car, you have very little to worry about the car next to you who will try and pass you. My #1 overall pick"

2001 Z06 are known to run 12.4 on 1/4s and at what price compared to an E55 AMG. A stock 2002 Z06 is rated at 12.5 seconds...check your facts. The dude in a Corvette would probably have a bigger grin on your face. He got your speed with 1/2 the price and *gasp* matched the prestige of an E55 AMG with a Chevy as far as performance goes.

As far as sports cars go, Id take a 1997 Viper GTS rated at 12.05 secs for the 1/4 and in the same price range for one in good condition. Hell it even looks better.
 
flight152
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 5:52 am

Peter, your completely missing the point. These are SEDANS capable of everyday transport. Try driving a Corvette or Viper year round. Try fitting 4 passengers in those cars with a decent amount of luggage. Not only do these cars exhibit sports car like performance, but in a much more particle package.
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 5:55 am

"Peter, your completely missing the point. These are SEDANS capable of everyday transport. Try driving a Corvette or Viper year round."

He gave a Vette as an example. I said what I would buy as far as Sports Cars go not sedans...not once did I mention they were sedans.
 
racko
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:42 am

All those 0-100, 1/4 quarter mile etc. times are crap anyway. What counts is how the car drives and how it accelerates 80-120.

LOT767-300ER, so what, your Corvette and your Viper GTS still lose badly vs. the BMW M3 CSL on a track.  Smile
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:06 am

"LOT767-300ER, so what, your Corvette and your Viper GTS still lose badly vs. the BMW M3 CSL on a track. "

Racko, I was trying to keep it in the same price range...guess you didnt catch on to that.. In any case a Corvette Lingenfelter 427 would put a CSL/GTR in the rightmost bus/truck lane.
 
fspilot747
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:48 am




FSP
 
flyf15
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:58 am

I guess I must mention one thing. One undebatable fact is that out of all these cars, the M5 is the only one that comes with a manual transmission. That in itself makes it more worthy than the others from a driver's point of view. But, to each his own...

[Edited 2003-08-21 02:06:16]
 
khi747
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:58 am

Greg : I dont want this to turn personal but before you decide of accusing me of lying...have you ever been to Boston...have you seen the cars that international students have here??? Ask anyone who has lived in Boston and they will tell you....by next month when the semester starts if you happen to be on Newberry street here dont be suprised if you see kids pulling up in Porsche Twin Turbos 360 Modenas valeting infront of resturants and you are talking about an M5! Two of my own cousins had 911 Twin Turbos here in Boston....speaking of M5's i swear i couldnt count how many international students i have seen with them....one of my friends who has it (i belive it was one of the first M5's in Boston delivered to him in Jan'00) has a amazing Hamman kit on it and there is another M5 i can see right now from my window as we speak belonging to another guy who lives in the same complex as me....i can go on forever telling you about the cars international students have here......but if you have a different opinion of what is better amongst an E55 or a M5 that is your choice and i respect that but think before you accuse someone of not telling the truth...i know students typically DONT have nice cars almost anywhere BUT in Boston kids belonging to some of the richest families from countries all over the world(esp: Middle East,Asia and Latin America) go to college and you'd be amazed not only by the cars but alot of other things too,no exaggeration...ask anyone who lives in Boston and then you will know....
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 11:33 am

Greg, does the 05 M5 look completely different from the current M5? Cause BMW has this thing where all their new cars are getting..well..ugly  Smile. I just hope they keep the M5 beautiful.

KHI747: I think it's safe to say that I've never seen a student drive a porsche on campus before...ever. You make it sound like it's the norm there. Peculiar.


FSP

[Edited 2003-08-21 04:36:24]
 
wietse
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 11:41 am

I guess the new CL60 isnt in the same price range?

Wietse
Wietse de Graaf
 
khi747
Posts: 1532
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:51 pm

FSPilot747....visit BU,Bentley,Babson,Suffolk,Tufts...and soooooooo on campuses and you will see many do just that...my promise
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:31 pm

"respect that but think before you accuse someone of not telling the truth...i know students typically DONT have nice cars almost anywhere BUT in Boston kids belonging to some of the richest families from countries all over the world(esp: Middle East,Asia and Latin America) go to college and you'd be amazed not only by the cars but alot of other things too,no exaggeration...ask anyone who lives in Boston and then you will know...."

One of the reasons I would not want to go to a school in Boston (Even MIT or Harvard) because of rich pricks like this and their attitudes. Put them in a real school and they would get their ass Hail Married on the football field where daddys money would do squat.
 
Greg
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:39 pm

I'm sorry, KHI..but I do honorariums at Universities in Boston yearly as part of my job--as well as speak during recruitment days (I bet you can figure which Universities). And no...there are not Turbo Porsches and M5's on every corner. In fact, there are more rust buckets than anything else.

No one is accusing you of lying. Of having a very active imagination....? Hmmmmmm.
 
Stretch 8
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:19 am

Okay Greg and KHI, stop stepping on each other's dicks and let's get back on message here.

I drive an E39 5 series (2000 528i Sport). I love it, and it is the perfect car for me. Before I bought my "CPO" car, I tested the 540i6, and M5, and the Audi S4. (The E55 is not for me; very nice car, but the Benz is sort of viewed in Germany the way Cadillac is viewed here - and old man's car.)

The M5 was too expensive and too much car; I knew I would probably be dead or in jail with that kind of power. The 540i6 was a similar story; the BMW 8cyl. engines have more problems than the I-6s. The Audi was too small and too expensive. I won't spend that kind of money on a fancy VW.

I will keep my E39 for years. The new 5 looks like a Pontiac from the front, and a Dodge Stratus from the rear. The classic BMW will soonbe history. Bangle should be sent packing to Detroit.
Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
 
khi747
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Fri Aug 22, 2003 3:25 am

Greg i feel whatever it is that you do in Boston, you dont come across alot of International students....or you are going to schools like Harvard and MIT where students are very focused and not into this kind of "highlife" scene....and no i never said there are Porsches and M5's on every corner since internarional students comprise typically less then 10% of the student force in most schools.... however Boston having soo many colleges and Universities it is home to a huge number of foreign students and most of them do have nice cars.....i do feel you are very proud of your M5 since you have had to work so hard for it(admirably so) and it is difficult for you to absorb the idea of college boys driving that car just because their dad sent them a nice wire transfer from Kuwait or Hong Kong so that he could go pick up his M5 from the dealership....but the Greg that is what happens here....then again M5 is not the average car most international students have here, that would be more like a 330Ci or C320...CLK's and X5's are also ridiculously common and then you will find in smaller yet significant numbers everything between them and a Ferrari 360.....
Greg, Herb Chambers is the largest dealer chain in Boston area, they respresent everything from Toyota to Porsche to Mini Cooper....when i was at their MB dealership 2 years ago with a friend who was buying his car the guy told us that nearly 40-50% of their business comes from international students and same applied for their BMW dealership...im sure you can verfiy that easily being a lawyer...
And i do have a very active imagination Greg but right now im just stating to you the facts and it is beyong me why you would continue to contradict me....
 
American_4275
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 1999 1:11 am

RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Fri Aug 22, 2003 3:37 am

It's true...I live around the corner from Babson and I remember biking around there once and just hitting the parking lot. REALLY nice cars!

American_4275
 
Greg
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Fri Aug 22, 2003 7:07 am

Yeah..okay..sure....whatever...
 
PilotHighFlyer
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Fri Aug 22, 2003 7:37 am

I was in Boston this week, I have never seen soooo many Porsches and BMW M3s. I spent the majority of my time in the Back Bay section of Boston and saw many nice cars. I also came upon a double parked silver Porsche twin turbo which was left running with no one watching it, amazing thing to do with your 130 grand ride.
Another thing that was prevalent on the streets of Boston are Audi TTs driven by young girls, I am guessing that the vast majority of these ladies didn't buy themselves 40 grand cars.
I also saw a new silver MB SL55 parked in a back alley right next to a new Land Rover, the driver of the SL55 happened to walk out while I was looking at his car, it was a kid only a few years older than I.

This type of spending is not limited to Boston however, just wander down to the South Western corner of CT (where I live), where you can find kids driving everything from Porsche Cayennes to Bentleys, and don’t forget the new trend of 17 year old kids driving H2s, always a comforting thought.
~Robert
 
khi747
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:23 am

I know exactly you are saying Pilothighflyer....and trust me this is the summer so most of the students are away for the break.....come in a couple of months time and you would be amazed even more.....but i bet even that kid you saw driving the SL55 AMG wasnt half as cocky as some other people who think they are the king of the world just by having a M5..
 
Greg
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RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:48 am

No kidding...or those snotty student poseurs that haven't a clue what they are talking about.

At least we can agree on something.
 
Theiler
Posts: 576
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 8:39 am

RE: BMW M5, Mercedes E55, Or Audi RS6

Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:28 am

It's one thing to work for, and earn, a nice set of wheels.. It's entirely another to be given them by Mommy and Daddy.

I often wonder what the same folks will be like in thirty years.

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