virgin744
Posts: 825
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 1999 5:51 pm

"Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sat Aug 23, 2003 6:33 pm

- That's not me, that's the writing on the walls at the car dealerships where the vandals wrecked the S.U.V's. It's a pretty major thing to go around burning down buildings and car warehouses, I'd be shocked if they dont get a few years in jail for this!
I can't recall anything as bad as this has ever happening in the UK apart from the damage caused at the annual Mayday riots...Virgin744


WEST COVINA, Calif. - Fires destroyed dozens of SUVs and a warehouse at an auto dealership Friday, and vehicles there and at three other dealerships were spray-painted with slogans such as "Fat, Lazy Americans."
"With all the evidence ... it's highly likely it's an arson fire," said Rick Genovese, fire marshal for West Covina, a Los Angeles suburb.
The radical group Earth Liberation Front issued an unsigned e-mail Friday calling the incidents "ELF actions," and the FBI (news - web sites) was investigating the dealership fire as domestic terrorism, Police Chief Frank Wills said.

The underground group has claimed responsibility for a slew of arson attacks against commercial entities that members say damage the environment. It is suspected in a multimillion-dollar arson fire Aug. 1 that destroyed a five-story apartment complex under construction in San Diego, though an ELF e-mail claimed the group had not been in contact with those responsible in that case.
The blazes at the Clippinger Chevrolet dealership broke out about 5 a.m. Friday. Flames destroyed about 20 vehicles, mostly Hummer H2s, which are luxury SUVs patterned after the military's workhorse Humvee. Another 20 vehicles were badly damaged. A separate blaze caved in a warehouse roof.
There were no reports of injuries, but damage was estimated at $1 million.

SUVs at dealerships in nearby cities of Arcadia, Duarte and Monrovia were also vandalized, though there were no other fires.
Among the slogans written on the sides and hoods of vehicles were "I (heart) Pollution" and "American Wastefullness." "ELF" was written on at least one vehicle.
General Motors Corp. spokesman Brian Akre called the blaze a "reprehensible criminal act" and said the Detroit-based company, whose brands include Hummer and Chevrolet, was thankful that the fire didn't result in injuries.
"If this was some kind of misguided attempt to make a political statement, those responsible should know that committing arson and putting property and people in danger is not the way to gain public support for their position," Akre said.
 
AWspicious
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sat Aug 23, 2003 7:20 pm

This is insane. I see a lot of fat, lazy Canadians of various ethnic backgrounds driving around in SUVs. Should they also fear being targeted by ELF?
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
 
DoorsToManual
Posts: 1453
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 2:13 am

Sorry, I just finished watching Roseanne, what was that you said? Oh, John Goodman, yeah, he's terrific.
 
LHMark
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 3:56 am

Sigh. They have SUVs in Europe, too. Check out the eco-friendly, waste-free Mercedes Gelaendewagen, retailing for over $80,000
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
JAL777
Posts: 2453
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 4:17 am

What I find so ironic (and stupid) is that these folks caused 100 times more pollution in one night then al those suv's would have caused throughout their usuable lifespans.
 
Alpha 1
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Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 5:29 am

Note to these losers-and those on here who give grief to anyone who has a SUV: if you don't want one, don't drive one. BUT DON'T TELL THE REST OF US HOW TO ACT OR WHAT TO DRIVE!

Got it? Thank you!
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 5:38 am

Hey Alpha 1. DO NOT drive an SUV. GOT IT!?





 Big grin
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 5:40 am

Hey KROC. I will if I damn well feel like it! GOT IT?!! Big grin
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 6:56 am

Note to these losers-and those on here who give grief to anyone who has a SUV: if you don't want one, don't drive one. BUT DON'T TELL THE REST OF US HOW TO ACT OR WHAT TO DRIVE!

Got it? Thank you!


Huh!?!?! I was just about to make the same post as Alpha1?!

Shit...Whats next? A Bush/Tom Daschle alliance?
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:22 am

These people are a bit crazy. I am no fan of SUVs but to destroy other peoples property is just foolish.
I don't understand how "fat & lazy" equates to an SUV owner.  Confused
I've seen many skinny people driving SUVs.

Here in San Francisco we have some radicals that smash in the windows of SUVs as a part of a 'yuppie irradication project'.
The best way to handle then is just cut them of and they'll tip on there own.
That'll teach them a lesson. Big grin

Bring back the Concorde
 
keesje
Posts: 8586
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:32 am

Note to these losers-and those on here who give grief to anyone who has a SUV: if you don't want one, don't drive one. BUT DON'T TELL THE REST OF US HOW TO ACT OR WHAT TO DRIVE!

Got it? Thank you!


Agreed

Everyboduy has to damn right to destroy the environment

Just mind your own business, freedom for all !

http://www.intelligencetest.com/

Thank you !
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
JAL777
Posts: 2453
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:33 am

Environmental regulations are the responsibilities of the government, not some far out radical group made up of college students with way too much free time.
 
aloges
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:50 am

I most definitely don't want to advocate arson or vandalism, but it seems like drastic actions are sometimes needed to make people care about problems. For instance, there would probably not be a plan to exit the age of nuclear power plants in Germany if it weren't for Greenpeace and other activists hindering transports of radioactive waste and so on.

So maybe the ELF wouldn't be doing this if there was no American government that almost subsidises SUVs?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Theiler
Posts: 576
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:25 am

It's become clear to me that ELF members are inhaling a little too much of a certain "pollutant", if you catch my drift.
 
L-188
Posts: 29870
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 9:43 am

These people are terrorists pure and simple.

They torched a major ski resot in Vail a couple of years ago and a couple months ago did the same to a muli-million dollar apartment complex.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 9:54 am

I most definitely don't want to advocate arson or vandalism, but it seems like drastic actions are sometimes needed to make people care about problems.

Again, these people are radicals, who care more about hugging trees than in interacting with human beings. Their "conern" for the envoirnment has gotten so rabid that they're willing to hurt people and destroy property, which makes them no better than those they themselves loathe.

Extremeism in the defense of anything, is indeed a vice. These poeple are thugs, surely as a terrorist is.
 
GD727
Posts: 899
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:17 pm

This really irritates me. People like that should be thrown in jail, plain and simple. They have no right to tell people what they can and cannot drive! Besides, it's not like SUVs pollute that much more then normal cars, what do they want, a ban on engines above 4 cylinders? At least people who oppose them are civilized enough not to write" Stupid, pothead, commies" on their cars!

-GD727
Mmmm forbidden donut.
 
jcs17
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 2:26 pm

I most definitely don't want to advocate arson or vandalism, but it seems like drastic actions are sometimes needed to make people care about problems.

Yeah, great. Some of the worst dictators have also used destruction to make people "care about problems."

For instance, there would probably not be a plan to exit the age of nuclear power plants in Germany if it weren't for Greenpeace and other activists hindering transports of radioactive waste and so on.

Yeah, so instead of using clean, safe, and modern nuclear energy, Germany is still in the early 19th century with dirty oil and coal energy. It makes no sense, nuclear energy is about 200 times cleaner than coal or oil, and yet Greenpeace wants those energy sources to pollute the earth. Wait. Isnt Greenpeace in favor of reducing the amount of fossil fuels used? Greenpeace is group that likes to protest for the sake of protesting.

So maybe the ELF wouldn't be doing this if there was no American government that almost subsidises SUVs?

Great, its the American governments fault now....just like everything else. Ever hear of a concept called consumer preference? How do we subsidize SUVs? Just because we dont have fuel prices that are about $5.00 per gallon like in Europe? Or because we dont tax the fuck out of everything that moves? Actually, if you didnt notice, the US government has a gas-guzzler tax.

If these people are ever caught, they ought to have to make labor restitution to these companies whose products they have destroyed for the rest of their lives (I dont think their $5.50 an hour pizza delivery jobs will exactly cover it)
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Guest

RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 4:09 pm

I do not agree with the destruction of peoples property, however we all should be concerned with the environment and our impact on it.

Driving around hulking gas guzzling 4WD's (or SUV's / Pickups) is just plain socially irresponsible.

It never ceases to amaze me the trully rotten mentality that has pervaded modern society. That of the *me me me* society who always take whatever they can and never give an inch back. Unless forced by a guilty conscience.

Doesn't anyone agree we have gone too far in our quest for innanimate material wealth at the expesne of others?

mb

 
L-188
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 4:30 pm

You know the irony invoked in my mind by some of these protesters is amazing.

Take for example when those idiots at Greenpeace when they attempted to protest the Northstar Oil Project in Alaska a couple of years back.

They set up a camp on the Ice in Beaufort sea and hired a DC-3 on skies to fly all of their gear in. They showed footage of them offloading this 150 gallon an hour fuel burn aircraft that was flying support all the way from Palmer 800 miles to the south. These oil protesters where rolling barrels of diesel oil out of the back end of the aircraft!


They must have rolled about 800 gallons off that one airplane, and those guys where camped up on the ice for a couple of months.

You know what, if you are going to protest oil, then don't use it to support the protest!!!

To do otherwise would be hyprocritical.

[Edited 2003-08-24 09:35:52]
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:30 pm

Driving around hulking gas guzzling 4WD's (or SUV's / Pickups) is just plain socially irresponsible.

Stick it in your gas tank, Mx5. Stop judging people because they prefer to drive a certain type of vehicle. I drive a '98 Plymouth Grand Voyager, and it's not exactly fuel-efficient, but I need the space because I have a family of 5, and somethimes, we do go places in it. But I know, I'm a socially irresponsible person for driving it. If someone wants to drive an SUV, it's their right in a free country to do so, and we don't need EnviroNazi's to tell them they can't, or burn vehicles to stop them from doing it. Again, if you don't like them, fine, but don't dare to lecture ANYONE if they choose to spend their own money to purchase one, OK?

Doesn't anyone agree we have gone too far in our quest for innanimate material wealth at the expesne of others?

Stop being so pompously pious, Mx5boy. Who are YOU to judge others because they drive a VEHICLE? If someone wants to, they have the right, to, and to hell with your utopian and naive lectures to the contrary. If you feel that way, go off and live somewhere where you don't use any electricity, or burn any gas, or use and animal products to clothe and feed yourself. Then you can critsize. Until then, put a lid on it.
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:09 am

It never ceases to amaze me the trully rotten mentality that has pervaded modern society. That of the *me me me* society who always take whatever they can and never give an inch back. Unless forced by a guilty conscience.

Doesn't anyone agree we have gone too far in our quest for innanimate material wealth at the expesne of others?


Heres an idea for you, Mx5_boy, if you are really so worried about greed than why dont you donate your car to charity? I'm sure the charity could sell it and make some money for its cause. Guessing from your nickname, you drive an MX-5, I'm sure you bought that car for functionality only...  Yeah sure

As for the *me me me* society, do you want to know a little secret? Its called capitalism, deal with it.

Alpha1, stop posting things I agree with.  Smile

America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Alpha 1
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:26 am

Jcs, stop agreeing with me, and you won't have a problem!!  Big grin
 
Qb001
Posts: 1923
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 12:42 am

RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:27 am

The US contains 4% of the world's population but produces about 25% of all carbon dioxide emissions...

The current US administration is refusing to change its position, and seems to be under little pressure at home to do so.

The cuts required by Kyoto would mean some fundamental changes in American lifestyle. US citizens tend to drive larger cars and make more frequent trips.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1820523.stm

THAT'S the problem. And pollution knows no boundary. So it's not JUST an American problem, it's a global issue. And the USA should do it's fair share to cut back on pollution, pretty much like the rest of the world does.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:35 am

it's a global issue. And the USA should do it's fair share to cut back on pollution, pretty much like the rest of the world does.

It's FAIR share. I don't think anyone has a problem with that, but Kyoto, most Americans who had an interest in it, will tell you that Americans were being asked to do much more than their fair shaire. When other nations are exempt from doing anything, that's not fair, and Kyoto, because of that, was not fair.
 
Qb001
Posts: 1923
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 12:42 am

RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:50 am

If my memory serves me well, the American share to meet the objectives of the Kyoto Protocol was to reduce its greenhouse gases production by 7% (compared to what they were back in 1990). In Canada, we'll have to reduce them by 6%. In Europe, the objective has been set to 8%.

8% reduction for Europe, 7% for the USA; I fail to see where this is unfair.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
Guest

RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:56 am

If I recall correctly, the EU will fail to meet Kyoto targets. So much for all the enthusiastic huplaa...

http://www.obv.org.uk/europe/eu20030507a.html
 
Qb001
Posts: 1923
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:59 am

Google is great! Here's what I found.

The developed countries are to reduce their collective emissions of six key greenhouse gases by at least 5%. This group target will be achieved through cuts of 8% by Switzerland, most Central and East European states, and the European Union (the EU will meet its group target by distributing different rates among its member states); 7% by the US; and 6% by Canada, Hungary, Japan, and Poland. Russia, New Zealand, and Ukraine are to stabilize their emissions, while Norway may increase emissions by up to 1%, Australia by up to 8%, and Iceland 10%. The six gases are to be combined in a "basket", with reductions in individual gases translated into "CO2 equivalents" that are then added up to produce a single figure.

It comes from this document.

This demonstrates that the US share was perfectly fair, and it's only to thank his friends in the oil business that number 43 backed away from the protocol.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
Qb001
Posts: 1923
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 12:42 am

RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:03 pm

the EU will fail to meet Kyoto targets

Don't believe predictions, especially if they are about the future...

[Edited 2003-08-25 05:04:18]
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
JAL777
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:03 pm

Australia didn't sign the agreement either.
 
JAL777
Posts: 2453
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:13 pm

RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:04 pm

Don't believe predictions, especially if they are about the future...

I prefer to believe predictions about the past. Usually, they're more accurate.  Smile
 
Guest

RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:10 pm

Neither did Russia. But of course, it's only bad if America doesn't do it. :-

These are not predictions, Qb001, but facts. The EU has thusfar failed to meet their Kyoto targets for the past year. They are already behind on their targeted goals and have that much more ground to cover. Realistically speaking, it looks all the more difficult for them to do.

From my link above:
According to the EU's environmental watchdog, the European Environment Agency (EEA), emissions of greenhouse gases were 1 per cent higher in 2001 compared to 2000 – making it highly unlikely that the EU can now keep its promises set by the Kyoto Protocol.



[Edited 2003-08-25 05:13:36]
 
Qb001
Posts: 1923
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 12:42 am

RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:27 pm

You're missing the point.

The point is that the objectives are to be attained by 2012. So a one year step back is not the end of the world. Furthermore, it'll take a couple of years still before the impacts of the first measures fully kick-in.

At least THEY are trying to do something; it couldn't hurt. Better that than buying millions of stupid, polluting, ugly, useless and dangerous SUVs.

2012 is still 9 years away. That's why I say, forget about predictions...
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
Guest

RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:39 pm

And a lot can happen in nine years -- good and bad. By your logic, its fruitless to make predictions the other way too.

As for SUVs, remember, I am from Canada originally. A lot of Canadians drive those "stupid, polluting, ugly, uselss and dangerous" cars too. In fact, my cousin in Vancouver just bought a brand new SUV and she absolutely loves it and wouldn't think of driving anything else. I know she isn't the only one up there.

PS. I probably do much more for the environment than you ever will. I don't even own a car and I absolutely hate to drive. I take the subway to work and everyelse I go. Now, how many of you who protest against driving can boast that?
 
User avatar
yyz717
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:57 pm

8% reduction for Europe, 7% for the USA; I fail to see where this is unfair.

It's completely unfair to the entire Western world. Any legislation to tie the hands of business to reduce pollution will only serve to reduce economic growth which will impoverish millions of Westerners.

It has been proven all through the economic history of the West that the best incentive to reduce fuel consumption is simply unhindered capitalism & competition. If my competitor can reduce costs by reducing fuel consumption, he will take customers away from me: hence I now have an incentive to reduce fuel consumption.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
keesje
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:26 pm

I think only a dramatic rise in fuel prices will be able to move US citizens into driving/developing more efficient cars.


Right now positioning yourself as successful by driving a big car is much more important then protecting the environment.


A big television campaign plotting the big cars as un-social, selfish & dangerous might help to ..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Matt D
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 9:42 pm

My jaw hit the floor when this went down. I mean West Covina is my hometown for Gods sake. The new Clippinger dealership is practically walking distance from my dads house (where I grew up). So it was pretty freaky. I guess they're going to have to move back to the old Covina location on Citrus/San Bernardino Road for awhile.

What will be interesting to see now is whether or not they rebuild or buckle under to this terrorism.
 
Qb001
Posts: 1923
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 12:42 am

RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:01 pm

CaptainStabbin,

If you think my anti-SUVs diatribe was directed solely at Americans, well, maybe you ought to know that there are some pretty efficient anti-paranoia drugs out there. SUVs, whether bought by Americans, Canadians, Germans, Japaneses or Russians are still SPUUD (stupid, polluting, ugly, useless and dangerous).

It is estimated that no more than 1 in a 1000 SUV is really used off-road. I've seen SUVs in the very mountainous state of Florida which, as we all know, is terribly subjected to massive snowstorm...


Yyz717,
I'm pretty sure there is a way to make a case for capitalism other than to advocate the right of enterprises to pollute.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
L-188
Posts: 29870
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:14 pm

Yyz717,
I'm pretty sure there is a way to make a case for capitalism other than to advocate the right of enterprises to pollute.


But there is a stronger case that you can push for environmental awareness without resorting to arson or other felonies.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
cptkrell
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:50 pm

RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:30 pm

A real, baited topic title for the discussion. As far as the U.S. having 4% of the world's population but being responsible for 25% of the world's CO2 may be a bit misleading. Could I assume that the writer meant 25% of "man-made" CO2? Furthermore, the U.S. is responsible for a hell of a lot more than 4% of the world's economy, anyway.

The abstract of the Global Warming Petition Project (post-Kyoto) from the Oregon Institute Of Science And Medicine reads:

"A review of the research literature containing the environmental consequences of increased levels of atmosphere carbon dioxide leads to the conclusion that increases in the 20th Century have produced no deleterious effects upon global weather, climate, or temperature. Increased carbon dioxide has, however, markedly increased plant growth rates. Predictions of harmful climatic effects due to the future increases in minor greenhouse gases like CO2 are in error and do not conform to current experimental knowledge."

The following two sentences are contained within the summary of said paper:

..."It is resonable to believe that humans have been responsible for much of this (CO2) increase. But the effect on the environment is likely to be benign."...

Now, do I take all this at face value without further study on my own? Probably not, but I am not going to take at face value opinions and predictions for the opposite either, and I'm sure as hell not going to support or give any credence to illegal acts of violence perpetrated by criminals expressing their point of view...Jack
all best; jack
 
L-188
Posts: 29870
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:33 pm

Lets see here.

Humans use O2
Humans create CO2.
Plants "eat" CO2
Increased CO2 and warmer tempertures encourage plant growth and activity.
Plants expell more O2


Looks like a comple circle to me.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
North County
Posts: 681
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 11:52 pm

RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Tue Aug 26, 2003 2:24 am



Elf= KKK= Brown shirts= PLO= Bin Laden

Terrorism is terrorism.

They burned, wrote messages on the windows and destroyed businesses – 2003 USA and 1938 Germany.

The fire they set in San Diego could have easily spread to the buildings near by….

They set fire to a car with a gas bomb on a residential street last week.

The KKK did the same thing – they called it a cross burning.

What else do the five listed terrorist groups have in common?

They are in effect cowards. They strike innocence civilians in the middle of the night in the name of their cause.

Watch when these ELF cowards are caught – they will beg for the mercy of the court, crying that they were young and stupid. They will cry to save their own skin.

The more things change the more they stay the same….
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:51 am

I'm not sure rational people will equate burning some Hummers in the same light as being Nazi's That's for the totally ignorant.

All things considered you should be able to drive whatever you want. I like to think that folks work hard for their possesions. They should be assured that nuts like this don't infringe on their civil rights.

It's wrong..but let's put it in perspective.

 
North County
Posts: 681
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:30 am

Greg,

The 20 million dollar fire in San Diego was in the highest density section of San Diego. (The UTC area) if the fire would have spread to the adjoining complexes you would have had a major problem. The apartments in that area are 3+ stories tall, have underground parking and are very close to one another. The area is known as the Golden Triangle...very nice area.

For us in San Diego we received a huge message in the middle of the night. This group does not value human life over their cause. They set buildings on fire and have fire bombed cars.

I was making a connection to the night of broken glass... Thank God this a small group - the Nazis were a large social/political movement.

The fact is that both groups used terrorism in the middle of the night to spread their hate....

...and both groups are(were) made up of cowards.

[Edited 2003-08-26 00:33:23]
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3400
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Tue Aug 26, 2003 8:17 am

It is estimated that no more than 1 in a 1000 SUV is really used off-road. I've seen SUVs in the very mountainous state of Florida which, as we all know, is terribly subjected to massive snowstorm..

The Ironic part to this is that in Toronto whenever there is a snowstorm usually the first car to end up in a ditch is an SUV because people who own them think that you can drive 100km/h on the freeway when there in a foot of snow on the road thinking the All Wheel drive will make them invincible. Also I have relatives in Florida who use SUV's to tow boats and they are not even sold there with All Wheel Drive Standard.

I do not have problems with people owning SUV's but I do have a problem with SUV owners complaining about gas prices.

Humans use O2
Humans create CO2.
Plants "eat" CO2
Increased CO2 and warmer tempertures encourage plant growth and activity.
Plants expell more O2


The reason is that there even is something like the Kyoto protocol is because there is more CO2 being produced that there are plants that can absorb it. Plants do not however produce O2 all the time they can only produce it when there is adequate light available. Otherwise all plants breathe just like us. So if we have too much CO2 the plants will die faster that they grow.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
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RE: "Fat, Lazy Americans"

Tue Aug 26, 2003 2:18 pm

All things considered you should be able to drive whatever you want. I like to think that folks work hard for their possesions. They should be assured that nuts like this don't infringe on their civil rights.

It's wrong..but let's put it in perspective.


I agree. Furthermore, I think the real issue with big expensive cars of all kinds all boils down to who's driving them. All too often I see Escalades and H2's parked in these miserable, disgusting, low-rent apartments in terrible neighborhoods. I see kids coming out of these houses wearing the same clothes they've been wearing for days. I hear stories from teachers about these kids coming into school like this, stinking to high heaven, with no lunch money, backpack, etc. It's simply not right.

My parents busted their butts to get me where I am today. They raised me with exceptionally good values, and my dad selflessly worked extra hard just to get me here. They make good money but they're pouring above and beyond what they need to into me...a HUGE chunk of what they make. They drove family and economy cars all throughout my childhood. When I graduate and the tuition bills (and flight costs, GEEZE) cease to exist, I hope they DO get those big expensive cars--they deserve them.

I think instead of "fat, lazy Americans", the SUV debate should be on "selfish, careless Americans".
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet

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