rabenschlag
Posts: 1012
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Married And Cheating

Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:48 pm

this is a tough question to answer, because most of us - me included, are neither married, nor do or would they cheat. however...

i heard from some people that after some years of marriage and living a monogamic lifestile, human nature calls for sexual diversity. if someone decides to live according to his drives, would you recommend to go and visit prostitutes? or would you reccomend to have occasional affaires? what would hurt you more if you were the cheated on person? what do you think is healthier, more moral? note that women will have a hard time finding male prostitutes, as far as i know, there is basically no market in europe. this adds a twist to the question, because once more, women appear to be disadvantaged, having fewer options.

what do you think?

 
jcs17
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RE: Married And Cheating

Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:50 pm

Heres a grand question: If you do not feel comfortable with staying with the same person all your life then why the hell waste your time getting married?!
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
rabenschlag
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RE: Married And Cheating

Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:53 pm

i think some would argue that love and sex, marriage and menage are different things.


 
airlinelover
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RE: Married And Cheating

Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:53 pm

I think JCS hit it right there.. If you cannot be happy with the SAME person for life, then DO NOT get married!!

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
rabenschlag
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RE: Married And Cheating

Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:57 pm

right, right, romantic values. i made the mistake and read plateforme the other day and thought this guy knew what he was writing about.
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:22 am

ok...just a hypothetical as I am not married....I marry a young woman, whom I truly believe to the one, and can see myself staying, and being happy with her for the rest of my days...then her ass gets big, feels sex is more of a chore than a gift and doles it out only upon completion of the yard, roof, kitchen. etc....she is on a type of med that tanks her sex drive and really doesn't feel the need to change because once a month should be enough for me. I would still love her, and she would still be my best friend, but what outlet do I have? Would/should I be stuck with Rosy and her five?

Haven't lived it, but boy oh boy have I seen/heard all of the above in friends and relatives marriages.

What then?

J
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:13 am

Hmmm...I am a bit surprised no one had any comments about my post.

Bueller...Fry?

J
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
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modernArt
Posts: 465
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:28 am

The only comment I have is that I agree with you 100%. I believe Texags has covered the "Fat Bomb" and its repercussions in some detail.

I cringe everytime I watch Everybody Loves Raymond. This show reveals plenty of the underlying truths about married life. Its kept me looking a little while longer.
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:44 am

Ah yes...the "Fat Bomb"... the mythical explosive weight gain phenomena...has in fact been proven to exist...


J
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
goingboeing
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 3:00 am

This may come as a shock to many, but there is more to marriage than sex. But...if you're of the mindset that you'd be willing to let the weenie wander should the wife gain a few pounds...don't get too upset if the wife manages to stay "cute" while you grow an ever increasing beer gut and she decides that the cute guy at work can meet her sexual needs without having to put up with the spare tire pressing against her.

Also, bear in mind that after 20 years, the wife won't just share your bed...she'll share your bank account, house, retirement account and other things that the loss of can make life miserable for you and your new honey after she takes her "fair share".

I don't worry myself though...my wife of 15 years is in better shape today than she was the day I married her...she can wear a pretty skimpy bikini and put many women half her age to shame. And my life has got everything I want...why screw it up giving my dick a little change of pace? The best advice I can give is this: If you do more thinking with the head on your penis and not the head on your shoulders...don't get married. You'll live to regret it.
 
jamesag96
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 3:47 am

I agree with GB, however, the question I posed is this:

"I would still love her, and she would still be my best friend, but what outlet do I have? Would/should I be stuck with Rosy and her five?"

GB, I realize the coin can flip both ways, but what I am talking about is what to do in the situation presented.

J
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:53 am

The solution to the problem is to ensure that you marry the right person. This means doing quite a bit of background investigation, though:

Does she make a point of working out and staying in shape? If so, great. If she gains five pounds and her solution is buying bigger pants, run.

What does her mom look like? Very good indicator of what you can expect in 20 to 30 years.

The bottom line is that you need to keep her interest level in you extremely high, even after you're married. A woman who feels a high interest level will make sure she stays in shape and looks good for her man.

Now...once you've married someone and they STILL put on 50lbs and their sex drive tanks? Obviously you need to do EVERYTHING to get things back on track.

If you have absolutely no recourse whatsoever, and the "five knuckle shuffle" doesn't satisfy your needs...an affair is the LAST thing you should do. An affair involves matters of the heart in most cases, and if it's truly just a physical act you want, then avoid romancing someone else.

Pay for it, and try your damndest not to get arrested in the process.

And for what it's worth, this is only if you absolutely cannot tolerate it anymore and MUST stray. I personally never would, though.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Guest

RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:38 am

I'm not married, nor have I ever been, so I can't speak from experience. However, it seems to me that a functional, monogamous relationship only comes by BOTH partners working towards it. A dysfunctional relationship is what occurs by default. Sure, you should be ready to marry, and marry the right person, but those two factors alone will not provide for a successful relationship. And they do not relieve the couple from the responsibility of service and sacrifice for each other.

-Normal
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:55 am

Exactly right, don't get married if you can't stay faithful. Sure people want to mix it up, but thats what porn is for.
Go big or go home
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 6:57 am

Right on EA CO AS...I see where you are coming from, great post.

Thanks.

J
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
bruno
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:26 am

A mistress could stengthen the bond. It seems to work weell for the French.
Most men can distinguish the difference between sex and love.
I support the women’s movement up and down!
 
ryanb741
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:58 am

Well if you want to look outside your marriage for sex then that is your choice - just don't get all affronted when your wife does the same to you. It is your responsibility just as much as your wife's to keep your sex life strong. Often if one parter becomes uninterested in sex or puts on weight there is an underlying reason. Try and sort that out before looking elsewhere - it really is very selfish.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 8:20 am

Why the hell would anyone spend money on a hooker, when there are thousands of woman willing to get laid for free?

And if you're actively looking outside your marraige, why the hell did you get married in the first place?
 
Matt D
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 8:39 am

Bruno:

I would like to expound on your post. My high school psychology teacher once posed a classic classroom debate question that has stuck in my mind all these years and now I'd like to hear all of your thoughts on it:

Do you think that women use sex to get love and men use love to get sex?
 
JetService
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 8:40 am

Oh damn!! Alpha 1 and Jcs17 agree!! Isn't that the 6th sign of the apocolypse??!!!  Laugh out loud

I happen to agree with them. If you can't keep it in your pants, don't get married. If its too late, then either get a divorce or buy a Fleshlight.
"Shaddap you!"
 
bruno
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 9:05 am

Matt D:
Well I can't completly speak for the French but maybe some married couples look at it as fun or 'spiceing' things up. There is WAY too much pressure from our society for people to get married. Being in my 30s, I get the "when are you going to get married?" question too much! I know it's even worse for women our age. Married folks get too many breaks and really too many people get married for the wrong reason. If a dumb broad finds a rich lawyer or Doctor to sucker in to getting married, she is prasied as being a smart woman for 'stricking gold'. If she married a janitor, people would say, 'Oh I am sure she could have done better'.
So what if a guy just want to have a little fun for one evening. I don't think it compromises his love for his wife. He just wants a break.
If a loyal Harley Davidson biker rides a Honda Goldwing for a few hours, is he dis-loyal to Harley?



EA CO AS:
Does she make a point of working out and staying in shape? If so, great. If she gains five pounds and her solution is buying bigger pants, run.

I have to disagree. I think if you love someone, you should love them no matter how much she gains. 5 pounds? Man you are harsh! Leaving a woman for gaining a few pounds is worse than having a fling as long as she dosen't find out.
I know most will disagree with me on this but I just feel someone has to speak what a lot of guys feel but are too ashamed to admit.
I can already tell which members have wives & girlfriends that spy on them here.  Big grin

I support the women’s movement up and down!
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 9:09 am

This show reveals plenty of the underlying truths about married life. Its kept me looking a little while longer.

Have you ever read the LOCKHORNS Comic strip and watched Married w/ Children at the same time?  Big grin
Puhdiddle
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 9:14 am

Matt D- I think some women use sex to get love, but not all. I think some guys use love to get sex, not all. Some people still wait to mariage to have sex. I personally think sex is a bonus to love, you get love, and you get laid.
Go big or go home
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 9:24 am

I have to disagree. I think if you love someone, you should love them no matter how much she gains. 5 pounds? Man you are harsh! Leaving a woman for gaining a few pounds is worse than having a fling as long as she dosen't find out.

In the grand scheme of things, five pounds isn't a lot...until you take into consideration that it's 5 pounds a year, and each year, she finds some way to justify not doing anything about it.

So you're on a slippery slope downwards. Each year, the girl puts on more weight and solves the problem by buying bigger clothes rather than arresting her weight gain.

So ten years later, she's 50lbs heavier. Twenty? One hundred pounds. And my main concern wouldn't be her physical appearance, but the health concerns that come from carrying around all that extra tonnage! A great example is my (now former) girlfriend. When we got together, she was 5'4'' and weighed 110lbs. Three months later she was at 135lbs. And she still looked great, but I voiced concern. Why? Because 25lbs is a LOT to gain in just three months.

And no, we didn't break up over weight concerns.

Anyway, if I'm lucky enough to marry my best friend, I want her to be around for the long haul. It shouldn't be cut short because of lack of discipline.

And that's really what this is about; lack of discipline. Sure, you have people who have glandular disorders and whatnot that result in rampant weight gain, but someone who slowly lets themselves go over time does so solely because they lack the drive or discipline to stay in shape.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
kevi747
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 9:59 am

I'm kind of torn on this one. I think love and sex are two completely separate things, and its great when they both intertwine. But men love to have sex with lots of different partners. (Or real men do anyway.)

Maybe guys just need to have a lot of sex in their 20's and get it out of their systems before they decide to settle down. I guess that's how it normally works. But where I was rasied (that hellishly backward place known as Texas) all the straight people are married with kids by the time their 20 years old. And then they start cheating and sleeping around and all end up divorced with a bunch of little brats running around all over the place and its just a mess.

I'm going to reveal a little industry secret to you guys: All pilots cheat. (OK, maybe that wasn't such a secret.) It's a well-known fact. You should see these guys down in Buenos Aires. They go in droves to the brothels. They don't love the women they're screwing, its just sex. And I think a lot of them really do love their wives, but they're not attracted to them anymore.

I've slept with several married men. I don't feel bad about it either because I didn't know at the time that they were married, and plus I have no respect for marriage (seeing as how its an institution that excludes me).

I guess cheating or having an "open" relationship works for some people. I wouldn't really want someone that I was committed to cheating on me though.
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:47 am

Man. I'm a bit depressed after reading this thread!

When you get married, it's for life, for better and for worse, and all that. If you can't keep that promise, DON'T GET MARRIED. It's that simple. If you have issues with your spouse, talk about it! And fix it! And if you can't fix it, then either get out of the marriage and THEN screw around, or else find some way to deal.

Let me let you in on a little secret, guys. When you both work, then come home and the wife does chores while the man sits on his ass and watches TV, it tends to breed resentment and the relationship suffers! She's not there to wash your skid-marked underwear, cook your meals, do the dishes, vacuum the house, and THEN service you sexually after you're done watching four hours of TV. When a girl has time to relax and doesn't resent the lazy dude sitting on the couch, the relationship (including sex) tends to be better. For mothers, it's even worse. Respect her and put some reasonable effort into the relationship, both day-to-day and on higher levels, and you'd be surprised how 'hot' she'll stay.

It always pisses me off to hear men complain about how pregnancy and children affect their wives. Uh, guys, it's your child too, and YOU try carrying and birthing a kid and see how your body handles it.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
sleekjet
Posts: 2006
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:31 am

I don't think there are many young folks left who understand commitment. In our disposable society, it's just too easy to treat relationships like broken-down lawnmowers. Hey, just go get a new one.

My wife and I have had 31 years together. During this time, we've raised three kids, weathered some health issues, faced the normal stresses of daily life, and remained absolutely faithful to each other.

Commitment is a decision made prior to the wedding. It says you aren't going to bail out when the "worse" of "for better or worse" occurs. As the years start to add up, a magical indescribable thing happens. You become one. Your souls are so intertwined that the very idea of separation or unfaithfulness becomes repulsive. The difficult times in life become much more bearable and the happy times are enhanced exponentially.

As several have pointed out, too many folks get married who aren't ready or have not picked out the right person. But for those who are ready and who really have found their soul-mate, it's the best stuff this side of heaven.
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:32 am

But men love to have sex with lots of different partners. (Or real men do anyway.)

Well, then I guess Gene Simmons of the rock group Kiss is just as REAL as they get, having sex by his estimation, with 3000 woman.

That's a line of bunk, Kevi747, and it's just a cop-out for you to give men license to do whatever the hell they want to do, all in the name of being a "real" man. Don't make me laugh.

A "real" man stays true to his word, Kevi. He dosn't go try to bed a skirt every time he can't control his dick. We're all tempted, but a "real" man stands by his word.

Of course, "real" men, like yourself, would say a woman doing the exact same thing is a "real" slut, right.

Grow up a little, and learn what a "real" man is.
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:58 am

Kev...I take offense to the idea that Texas is hellishly backward...though I can understand why you in particular might feel that way. Does frowning upon a man for sleeping with other married men count as hellishly backward, or less progressive than your current address? "Real man"...Alpha I don't think this guy has clue one as to what that means.

James

Edit: Sorry, I just get a little cross when Texas is besmirched.

[Edited 2003-08-26 05:08:05]
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:04 pm

Oh...and let me qualify that previous post...I don't have a problem with your lifestyle, though I am fully aware that there are places that do. What I take issue with, is your cavalier attitude toward sleeping with married men. If you wouldn't want it to happen to you sir, try to understand how those women would feel if they found out they had been cheated on.

Regards,
James
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
kevi747
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:04 pm

"Oh...and let me qualify that previous post...I don't have a problem with your lifestyle"

MmmmmHmmmm, honey. I may have been raised in Texas, but I've lived in NYC for almost 5 years now. Don't think I can't read between the lines. The mere use of the word "lifestyle" offends me. Being gay isn't some "lifestyle" I've chosen, it's who I am. No matter how I chose to live my life.



"Does frowning upon a man for sleeping with other married men count as hellishly backward"

Did I not also say that I didn't know they were married at the time? Plus, like I said above, until I'm allowed to marry someone I love (another man-GASP!) the institution of marriage can kiss my ass. I've never raped anyone, so they've all been willing partners. If their having problems at home and want to fool around with me that's their problem, not mine.


Sure, Texas is great!! (As long as you're a white, straight, Baptist, Republican) Texas sucks! That's what I think and I don't care who knows it. You are from there and so am I. What's the main difference between us that may have influenced my opinion? Gee, I wonder. Being called a "faggot" all through high school by a bunch of fucked-up losers. My roommate (a BLACK LESBIAN--oh my God!!) is also from Texas....Wylie, Texas. And she grew up the only black person at her school being called a "nigger" by other students. And don't tell me these are isolated incidents either. I hate that state with a passion! I wouldn't expect you to understand that, though.



"Of course, "real" men, like yourself, would say a woman doing the exact same thing is a "real" slut, right."

Yeah, because only women and gay men are ever descibed as "promiscuous". OK, you do know that I am a gay man, right?
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:56 pm

I don't care if you're a gay man or not. It makes no difference to me, but if you think "real men", gay or straight, like to sleep around and bag trophy's, then you have a warped sense of what is "real".
 
Qb001
Posts: 1923
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RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 9:29 pm

It makes no difference to me, but if you think "real men", gay or straight, like to sleep around and bag trophy's, then you have a warped sense of what is "real".

Agreed. If men were made to act like horses, that is 1 stallion serving multiple females, he wouldn't fall asleep after "doing it" only once. We'd be proud and up and ready to either serve another female or fight that other big, muscular, nice looking stallion that is getting too close to the horde. Instead of that, we sleep...

If you commit yourself to another person, well, it's a commitment! It's a moral bond and failing to be true to that bond seems to be, IMO, a pretty good barometer of your sense of morality.

In a relationship, people change: you change, your companion changes too. Not only physically, but also on many different aspects of what makes us an entire human being. If a couple has the maturity and the willingness to deal about those changes in an intelligent manners, then it's fine. But in our "me, myself and I" society, many people were raised having no clues about concepts such as sharing, compromising and empathy. When one or both individuals in a couple are of that "breed", it will lead to separation/divorce most of the time.

I don't mind people separating/divorcing, except when there are children in the couple. In most cases, it is ruining their lives. It drives me mad to see children without their full-time parents only because they, the parents, didn't have the maturity it takes to negotiate the inevitable compromises needed to maintain their couple.

As long as there are no kids in the couple, do whatever you want. But as soon as one of those little baby comes in, it should propel you light years forward in the sphere of maturity. My not so humble two cents...
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:50 pm

Kev...so my use of the word lifestyle offends you...if you take that in a manner to describe your sexuality than I can understand your position. However I meant it in conjunction with your care free "fool around with me" attitude. Being gay may or may not be a choice, I honestly don't know, but you sir are propagating stereo types when you speak of your many dalliances with other men as some sort of conquests. Not all gay men/women are as promiscuous as you would have us believe, surely not all gay men/women have such a bitter view of marriage. I am sorry to hear that you had bad experiences growing up in school, but we all know at that age kids are careless and can be quite mean, whatever makes you different is what they exploit. Small towns are small towns wherever you go, to lump Texas as a whole because of bad experiences you had is irresponsible, and Wylie come on, that particular place leaves much to be desired

Is it possible that you drew unfair amounts of attention to yourself, much as you are doing here?

J
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
rabenschlag
Posts: 1012
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 10:28 pm

RE: Married And Cheating

Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:30 pm

i realize that many of you think that if you cannot be faithful, marriage makes no sense. thus, most of you are reluctant to answer my original question. maybe this also has to do with the fact that in the US, prostitution is illegal (or isnt it?).

however. let me add some thoughts:
why could one believe that marriage = monogamy?

(1) convention. but as educated and enlightned people that all of us are, convention is no argument.

(2) contract. spouses sign a contract, ensuring monogamy. but as this contract is man made, it could be easily changed into allowing affaires or prostitution (for both men and women, of course). so this does not exclude the type of behavior in question.

(3) confession. one may believe that a higher power, capable of ultimate reward or punishment, does not like if people enjoy f**** around. well, faith is not open to argumentation, so we really have to stop here. i can tolerate faith, but i do not accept it.

(4) constitution. one may argue that the human sexuality is designed for monogamy. although a possibility, i think it is unlikely as our closest relatives (chimps), are VERY polygamous. also, if our nature was monogamous, why do so many people strive for diversity? (btw. a question for all belivers: why did god give man a bad nature?)

(5) your explanation


 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
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RE: Married And Cheating

Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:32 pm

I don't care if you're a gay man or not. It makes no difference to me, but if you think "real men", gay or straight, like to sleep around and bag trophy's, then you have a warped sense of what is "real".

Amen to that! Nothing worse than some lonely loser who's crying for help, having sex with multiple women, earning the reputation of a "player", and bagging only the whores...

Then they turn around and try to make the decent men who don't measure one's manhood based on how many "chicks they've banged" feel inadequate.

Like it's a crime for one to be a virgin after age 15.  Insane Guess I'm not a real man because I choose to wait for the right girl eh?

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
SophieMaltese
Posts: 2023
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RE: Married And Cheating

Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:12 pm

an actual affair would hurt me much more. The prostitute, while dangerous, would be almost a step up from masturbation and porn....no emotional attachment involved. I'm not saying I'd be happy, but I'd much rather that.
 
DC10GUY
Posts: 2590
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

RE: Married And Cheating

Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:40 am

Sooner or later you will realize that the "screw'in you get" isn't worth the "screw'in you get".
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6789
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RE: Married And Cheating

Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:54 am

Sophiemaltese, can I marry you?  Big thumbs up

Damn, seriously though, Has Tom Leykis seen this thread yet?

As someone soon to be engaged for a year now, well, I'm in that quasi-state.
I love my fiancee and I know she's a hottie in my eyes.  Love

Yet everyday I meet beautiful ladies in the office who may be attracted to me and vice versa, but hey, that's it. Leave it at that. I just appreciate that some of my patients are attracted to me and it leaves you with a sense of feeling affirmed, but I just leave it at that.

I work with my staff and many of them are cute and some even like me. Believe me, the thoughts ran through my head very fast (I can have her on the desk, etc), but then you get over it.

Before you go cheat, think about a lifetime of good with someone you really care about Vs. an orgasm with someone looking good on a single day. Please. It's not worth the bullshit.


Now, if I were an old school mormon, we could talk a bit differently.  Wink/being sarcastic

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