North County
Topic Author
Posts: 681
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 11:52 pm

According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:23 am

Since I can't walk in on one of their public meetings, I would like to how much car/engine is to much by their standards?

[Edited 2003-08-26 18:24:23]
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 2:25 am

Their attacks were aimed at SUVs, that should answer your question. I don't think they are against large cars per se, only against those cars bought by people who own them to drive around town by themselves, and to impress others.

http://www.earthliberationfront.com/news/2003/082203.shtml
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
MaxPowers
Posts: 453
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2000 11:25 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 2:54 am

how the hell can somebody tell if at home they have jet skis and snow mobiles?

That's why my family has an SUV...cause we need to tow stuff. However when I'm not towing stuff, I bet people assume I use my SUV as a mall/soccer practice shuttle...lame.

 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:07 am

I just wonder if they realize how many toxins where released by those uncontrolled fires they set.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:17 am

Good lord,

Have you all looked at that website that Algoes put up.

They have instructions on building timers and setting fires on them, how to detecte government informants and how to avoid prosecution.


Somebody explain to me how these guys are not equatable to al-quida. I hope the feds clean up on them.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:56 am

MaxPowers:
An easy way to tell if they have one of those car based SUVs that can only tow groceries.

As much as I am willing to support a movement to rid our streets of these ugly things, I seriously doubt these peoples knowledge of vehicles. At a peace rally I spoke with this group that had a list of SUVs to target.
They listed all the good ones that serves a purpose such as; the Ford Excursion and GMC Suburban. They couldn't understand that those are most likely to be used to tow heavy equipment.
The problem is with the useless car based ones that still impair other drivers vision and can still tip. The worse are; Lexus EX300, Pontiac Aztec & Mercedes M class.
They thoughgt because they were smaller they were better.
Not true.
The smaller ones can't serve the purpose of a larger one and still has limitations that cars don't.

The last time to government impossed strick gas standards, we got the K-car and the Vega.  Sad
Bring back the Concorde
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6059
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 4:05 am

Regarding the SUV's, I'll use this oportunity to add a Simpsons quote:

Marge Simpson: Ooh, what a nice SUV, what's the mileage?
Rainier Wolfcastle: 1 on Freeway, 0 in town

 Big thumbs up
 
dahawaiian
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 12:51 pm

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 4:37 am

Why aren't they charring Ferrari's, Porsche's or Lambo's? Those cars have atrocious gas mileage compared to many large SUV's. A few weeks ago I saw a Ferrari 575M inside the local Ferrari/Lambo/Audi dealership. The window sticker said something like 14 hwy/8 city, and that is just about as bad as it gets. You would probably get half of that during periods of spirited driving. Granted SUV's are more prevalent than exotic cars, however they still aren't the only fuel-inefficient cars on the roadways.
SUV's are the scapegoats for fuel-efficiency nazi's to pick on. Wouldn't the ELF be more upset about these vehicles that serve no purpose other than to go fast and corner well? This is America dammit, and if anything, the automakers should be forced to design SUV/engine combos that result in better mileage. In the United States, the advancement of a cause is taken better when violence is not used. It is easier to use your hands than it is to use your brain. The ELF is completely misguided, and they will achieve nothing because they have sealed their fate as domestic terrorists.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 4:41 am

"Somebody explain to me how these guys are not equatable to al-quida. I hope the feds clean up on them."

The distinction is that they don't mean to kill humans, at least it seems like that to me. And I'm not going to read all that "how to build and place a bomb" bs on their website to find out.

They want to express opinions which many people, including me, share, in a way that must not be tolerated by anyone. I understand, though, the apparent reasons why they resort to their kind of actions. They don't see any other possibility of constraining companies and people that don't give a thing about the environment*, and given the current US administration and congress, it's not hard to get their point. But again, what the ELF does is terrorism, albeit not comparable to al-Qaeda.

* Just an example: The CO2 emission of a
BMW X5 4.4i (8 cylinders, 4.4l 286 hp) averages 335 g/km, whereas a
BMW 545i (8 cylinders, 4.4l, 333 hp) averages 264 g/km.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 4:47 am

Dahawaiian,

"Granted SUV's are more prevalent than exotic cars, however they still aren't the only fuel-inefficient cars on the roadways."

Which is the exact point. Just compare the sheer numbers of SUVs over the world to the numbers of Ferraris, Lamborghinis and Porsches. A million SUVs that's twice as "fuel-efficient" as a thousand sports cars causes a lot more pollution than the sports cars.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Ralgha
Posts: 1589
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 1999 6:20 pm

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 4:54 am

Most of the Suburbans and Excursions I see day to day are not towing anything and are filled with a grand total of one person who is driving to or from work or the store or some place similar. The ones that are filled with people or towing something large are extremely rare.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: India Blasts Kill At Least 40, Wound 150

Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:00 am

only against those cars bought by people who own them to drive around town by themselves, and to impress others.

I forgot, Aloges should have ultimate control as to what cars people can buy...  Yeah sure
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Ralgha
Posts: 1589
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 1999 6:20 pm

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:06 am

If I got a sports car, I'd use it for what it was intended. There's a police driving track at Corvallis Airport, and I'd be out there bombing around all night.  Big thumbs up
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:19 am

Dahawaiian:
Why aren't they charring Ferrari's, Porsche's or Lambo's?

Those cars are cool!  Smokin cool
They don't impair vison of other drivers. What's more annoying?
Following a SUV or a Ferrari?
You can see over a Ferrari. It's much safer than an SUV.

If I was a balding rich guy with a little d!ck, I'd go for the Ferrari instead of a Hummer.
Bring back the Concorde
 
seb146
Posts: 14060
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:24 am

Believe it or not, there are some areas where SUVs are used for their origional purpose. Go to Montana, Wyoming, Colorado or other rural areas and you will see Suburbans and Explorers actually going OFF ROAD to someone's home!

The SUVs that get on my nerves are the 'soccer mom' types: Escalades, Navigators, Lexus EX300 et al. that have only one or two people in them and heaven forbid if they should get dirty!

GO CANUCKS!!
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:45 am

Seb146:
Believe it or not, there are some areas where SUVs are used for their origional purpose. Go to Montana, Wyoming, Colorado or other rural areas and you will see Suburbans and Explorers actually going OFF ROAD to someone's home!

The SUVs that get on my nerves are the 'soccer mom' types: Escalades, Navigators, Lexus EX300 et al. that have only one or two people in them and heaven forbid if they should get dirty!


My point exactly!

Bring back the Concorde
 
North County
Topic Author
Posts: 681
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 11:52 pm

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:46 am


Still no answer to the question.

About some SUVs - most people who tow - tow an RV or boat on the weekends or on vacation.

So they tow maybe 5-10% of the time.

If gas and pollution is the problem then according to ELF we should all be driving 3 and 4 cylinders cars.

Now if you say that is not what ELF is getting at then I have to ask you this:

Be careful when you allow any group (in this case a terrorist one) to dictate what you can buy, drive or own, today it is the SUV, tomorrow it will be V-6s and V-8s, and next year it could be any combustion engines.

 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:47 am

I guess that hardly any ELF members would want to burn those SUVs that Seb146 mentioned.



"I forgot, Aloges should have ultimate control as to what cars people can buy..."

Someone's getting annoyed? Welll... anyway, it's a sweet idea.  Laugh out loud Diesels for everyone!
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:29 am

Aloges:
Diesels for everyone!

I agree 50%!

Diesels should be the only engine for trucks/SUVs and small economy cars. Notice how all heavy duty commercial vehicles are diesel.
Diesel is the best for trucks and that's they are used from heavy insustrial use.
Gas is good for sports cars and some luxury cars. I wish my Lincoln had a diesel engine. Mercedes and Volvo makes a good diesel powered sedan.
The best fuel efficiency is the VW TDI engines.
Those others made by Honda will become a mechanical nightmare in the future to it's owners.
Bring back the Concorde
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:41 am

And now look at me who had almost written "TDIs for everyone"...  Smile The bad thing about them is that unlike Peugeot and Citroën, they still don't have any filters.

As for sports cars, Diesel engines are of course no good option for them. And the occasional Viper or Murciélago doesn't have enough of its friends around to do any major harm, plus it's an actual piece of engineering, plus nobody claims that it's "practical" or "necessary".
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:44 am

If I was a balding rich guy with a little d!ck, I'd go for the Ferrari instead of a Hummer.

Are you saying you're not rich? Big grin
"Shaddap you!"
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:48 am

JetService:
Good one JetService, Good one! !  Laugh out loud
Bring back the Concorde
 
cptkrell
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:50 pm

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:25 am

I personally don't give a shit what ELF (or anybody else, for that matter) thinks is too much of anything. I'll drive, fly, live in, etc. anything I want as long as I can afford it without stealing. And, that includes heating my swimming pool while some of these dimbulb do-gooders freeze while sitting in trees to protect the owls.

Well, I like raptors, so maybe thyat was a bit strong, but my point is nobody has a right to dictate what another should enjoy. I like to use the analogy of Barbara Streisand preaching energy conservation to a concert audience while her chauffer keeps her twenty foot limousine idling for four hours to keep the air conditioning running. I say screw her and anyone else that tells me what I should be doing with my earned income...Jack
all best; jack
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:36 am

Hey Jack, don't rag on Barbara.
Have you heard her album 'Guilty'?
She has an amazing voice!  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:42 am

"my point is nobody has a right to dictate what another should enjoy."

Absolutely, unless he's a democratically elected politician. And in that case, his dictatorial powers should still be very few.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
cptkrell
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:50 pm

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:59 am

Yes, Superfly, she has ALWAYS had a fabulous voice...it's her preaching that I rag on (are we spelling her name right? Barbara? Barbra?). BTW, did you copy and paste the AMC logo from an official source? The design is slightly incorrect in minute detail...all best...Jack
all best; jack
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:18 am

Aloges, the oh-so-great PSA Diesels don't match the Euro-4 emission standard, the oh-so-bad German Diesels do. And their filters cause higher fuel consumption and more maintenance. Soon you'll get maintenance-free Euro-4 Diesels from all German manufacturers except Ford.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 10:08 am

Babs is not quite the environmentalists she thinks she is. Apparently she fells that her....er.....scat, doesn't stink.

She is suing a beach erosion monitoring project because one of their aireal photo's id's her house.

Diesels are ok but are a bitch to start in -20 weather.

Gas motors have their place too.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:46 pm

Diesels should be the only engine for trucks/SUVs and small economy cars. Notice how all heavy duty commercial vehicles are diesel.
Diesel is the best for trucks and that's they are used from heavy insustrial use.
Gas is good for sports cars and some luxury cars. I wish my Lincoln had a diesel engine. Mercedes and Volvo makes a good diesel powered sedan.
The best fuel efficiency is the VW TDI engines.
Those others made by Honda will become a mechanical nightmare in the future to it's owners.


Uh-huh, and have you ever looked at the plume of exhaust coming from Semis?

Diesels would spew tons of pollution...more than regular engines...and making them standard on very prolific vehicles doesn't help.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:41 pm

Racko,

interesting fact, I didn't know that. Taking a look here, I read that the PSA Diesels do comply with the regulation on particles, but not on NOx. However, PSA say that they are developing a completely maintenance-free filter. As for increased fuel consumption, I agree that this is a major negative aspect. Although they say it's only about one to two percent higher consumption, it's still a bad thing.

B4e,

That exact plume is reduced by 99,99% by the above mentioned filters, making the Diesel engines that have them emit less particles than gas engines.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Thu Aug 28, 2003 2:28 am

Boeing4ever:
Diesel exhaust may not be pleasing to the eye but as Aloges pointed out, it's not as bad as gas engines for trucks.
That's why diesels are exempt from smog test.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Thu Aug 28, 2003 11:27 am

One thing about the ELF, there are no known members, no general staff, just a website that tells people how to do things on behaft of the ELF. They report all of the attacks they claim responsibility for. Somehow you would think that the FBI, Interpol, etc. would have the ability to track these "members" of the ELF. I mean just look for the hippie wearing clothes made of hemp and smells of patcholi and incense, carrying a copy of "Eco-Terrorism for Dummies" Driving a 1969 VW Microbus covered with Peace stickers, Grateful Dead Bears, various anti-meat stickers (Meat Is Murder, etc.), and a Free Leonard Peltier sticker. Or would that be profiling?
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:19 pm

Srbmod, I don't think they're exposing themselves like that. First rule for terrorists: keep a low profile.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Thu Aug 28, 2003 11:35 pm

Only the first two sentences in my last post should be taken seriously; the rest of it was just my weekly barb directed at "Homeland Security".
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?

Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:26 am

Seems like I did miss that...  Laugh out loud But anyway, how dare you joke about the DoHS?!?  Big grin
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aesma, speedygonzales and 5 guests