777YYC
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It's Cooler In Canada

Wed Sep 17, 2003 2:49 pm

http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/20030730sam0730p1.asp

I found this article posted on another message board.

Discuss.
 
CanadaEH
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Wed Sep 17, 2003 4:37 pm

Anyone else see a parallel with that article and Bowling For Columbine in a way?  Smile

EH.
 
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c172akula
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Thu Sep 18, 2003 1:58 am

And I thought this was going to be about the snow we've gotten in Calgary the last 2 days. Alas not.
 
L-188
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Thu Sep 18, 2003 4:09 am

Horse-pocky.

The gun laws have only gotten completely asine in the last couple of years with that national registry, which will eventually lead to the confiscation of all arms up there.

Word is that is the single most ignored law ever enacted by the federal government there, and the resistry itself is how much over budget.

All this in a country that won't see the crime rates the US will because it doesn't have the vast tracks of low income slums around it's cities like the US unfortuately has.

Could you imagine how many lives would have been saved it the Canadian government had spent that few billion they blew on gun registry on say the health care equipment to treat it's citizens rather then ship them to the US for treatment, like they are doing with Cancer patients in Toronto.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Arrow
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:17 am

You're right -- the money spent on a gun registry was outrageous and would have been better spent on almost anything else, including health care.

But you forget that Canada's gun laws were already much more stringent than those in the U.S. (hell, the whole world has more stringent gun laws than the U.S.) so the per capita gun-related crime rate has always been much lower, as it also is in many, many other nations where carrying firearms isn't quite so free and easy.

And if you're going to blame the higher U.S. crime rate on cities and slums -- maybe you need to explain why it is that the richest nation in the world has such serious urban decay and such a high crime rate. We wasted millions on a stupid registry -- but didn't I just hear that Bush wants another $87 billion to fix the mess in Iraq he created? $87 billion might cure some of that urban decay if it was spent the right way.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
StarAC17
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:44 am

I feel so patriotic right now  Smile

This article shows what I think is so great about Canada and what is being done right now and has been able to control the problems that exist in the US by instead of using zero tolerance to control things such as drugs made them less of a taboo and made them more mainstream (not like there is a drug culture in Canada unless you count drinking). I personally like the direction our country is moving and I hope it stays that way.

On Larry King Live a Canadian caller asked Comedian Bill Maher "What are the Americans going to do to Canada because we didn't support the Iraq war?"
He replied with the similar points that were in this article and said that he feels that the United States in going in the opposite direction. I may take heat for this but I agree with him.

Anyone else see a parallel with that article and Bowling For Columbine in a way?

I see the parallel and what I got from the movie is that Canadians have less fear than in the US which is entirely obvious from the difference in news coverage. For example in my house if there is people in there the door is always unlocked which was a point that was used in Bowling for Columbine
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
Guest

RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:21 am

Actually, Arrow, Switzerland has some of the most liberal gun laws in the world and they have a murder rate that Canada would admire. Brazil and South Africa have some pretty strict gun laws and we all know how bad their murder rates are.

As for the crime rate difference, the International Crime Victims Survey (the statistical method used by the UN to compare crime rates of various countries) and Interpol both say that the US has a lower overall crime rate than Canada, but murder rates are higher in the US.

And don’t tell me that Canada has no urban problems. Living in Vancouver, you should know that Hastings’s street in Vancouver isn’t exactly pretty and the homeless problem in Toronto (I used to live there) is appalling, much worse than anything I’ve seen in any major US city.

Anyways, I’m not really for or against gun control, but I think crime statistics have much more to do than that. Brazil, South Africa and Switzerland are three countries that show an opposite correlation. Canada and the US are both diverse countries with high levels of immigration, but they have vastly different racial demographics. Though it isn’t PC to say so, I honestly believe that plays a major role with the murder rates. StatCan doesn’t break down crime rates with regards to race, but if they did, I wonder what the conclusions would be.

(not like there is a drug culture in Canada unless you count drinking)

Are you kidding me? Where do you think the best marijuana in the world comes from? I don’t think you’ve been to Vancouver.

As for Canada heading in the right direction, I’m a Canadian who does not like the direction the country is going, but it is my prerogative to think so.
 
StarAC17
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:32 am

Are you kidding me? Where do you think the best marijuana in the world comes from? I don’t think you’ve been to Vancouver.

I have been to Vancouver when I was 15 and didn't notice any excessive drug use but your probably right that there is a drug culture there I just didn't notice it.

Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
L-188
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Thu Sep 18, 2003 9:49 am

Point being, it is the evironment, not the object that causes crime and the objects misuse.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Thu Sep 18, 2003 10:24 am

"It's Cooler In Canada"...

It may be freezing cold at times, but we can live with that, just like we can live with foreigners and gays...
As far as I see it Canadians are polite and willing to accept others the way they are, and whats not cool about that... We may be a little crazy at times, but its all good, being a little crazy is better than being just plain silly at times...

CanadianNorth
Way to go, nice and slow, never late, 748!
 
LSTC
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:55 am

Actually, Arrow, Switzerland has some of the most liberal gun laws in the world and they have a murder rate that Canada would admire


We've gone over this myth before. The "liberal" gun laws in Switzerland have been slowly tightened up over the last 10 years, and much of the myth comes from the fact that ex-military personnel were allowed to continue possessing weapons after their discharge from the military.

L-188,

You seem sort of bitter about something.....I like the gun laws and the health care.

I've heard (in a joke) that Canadians are just unarmed Americans with healthcare....

 Smile
 
Guest

RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Thu Sep 18, 2003 1:11 pm

Even before Switzerland "tightened" their gun laws, the crime rate was still low. And even though they are ex-military, they still have their guns. Israel also has similar laws to Switzerland, but tightened them up recently. Crime has remained relatively stable there.

Look, I’m pretty neutral on the gun issue, really and think there are some good arguements for both sides. I’m just pointing out examples of two countries where guns are very widespread, but they don’t have sky-high crime rates.

Star: Just go to Hastings’s Street. Big grin
 
DETA737
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:57 pm

Of course it's cooler in Canada that's why I moved here from the states. Vancouver beats Connecticut hands down in natural beauty and quality of life. I can actually live downtown and not be in fear for my life as I would be in Hartford, New Haven or Bridgeport.
 
L-188
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:26 pm

Sorry, not bitter, quarter canuk myself  Big thumbs up

But I do believe in the right to own firearms....they are just tools, that have no intellect and can take no action on their own.

And

I have heard to many horror stories about the health care system down there to be a big fan of it.

Actually I think that most health care costs, such as checkups and routine care need to come out of the persons pocked and insurance only should be there for major expenses.

That would lower the costs of insurance significantly in the US and allow market forces to work but that is really a subject for another topic.







That and your strange allegence to that inferior system of measures, the metric system.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:55 pm

I enjoyed that column.

As a Canadian living in the States -- and looking to move back north -- I have an interesting perspective.

While Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal have big-city problems like anywhere else, I simply feel safer in those cities than U.S. cities. Cities are also cleaner in Canada. And the people are less pretentious, less selfish and more approachable.

Best of all, I like Canada's commitment to limiting guns, welcoming gay marriages (I'm straight) and providing health care to those who need it. While these policies are far from perfect, they show a commitment to humanity the US just doesn't have, especially under King George II.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
L-188
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:15 pm

Um, we haven't been under the rule of any King since 1776, unless you count Elvis.

At some point, is Canada planning on funding a viable national defense system or are they planning for the US to pitch in for them?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:36 pm

Canada has its priorities straight -- humanity over military. Besides, Canada is too nice for anyone to attack.

[Edited 2003-09-19 15:38:27]
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
LSTC
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Sat Sep 20, 2003 11:50 am

We don't need a big investment in national defense. We don't piss anyone off. Of course we need a certain amount of armed forces to clean up after (or watch for the aftermath) of the actions of our big brother to the south...

 Smile
 
L-188
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Sat Sep 20, 2003 11:56 am

Lstc.

I wouldn't argue that point per say, but I would suggest that Canada doesn't have the resources to deploy its forces or support them on the peacekeeping missions that they are famous for.

Remember about two years ago, when 1/10 of the entire armour of Forces Canada was held hostage on a freighter in the middle of the Atlantic because the Shipper hadn't been paid by the broker who had the transport contract?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Sat Sep 20, 2003 12:02 pm

While Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal have big-city problems like anywhere else, I simply feel safer in those cities than U.S. cities. Cities are also cleaner in Canada. And the people are less pretentious, less selfish and more approachable.

I'm also a Canadian living in the US and I feel the opposite that you do. But it could be just me.
 
rindt
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Canada

Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:50 pm

Being born and raised in Vancouver, and having visited both sides of the US many times, I can honestly break it down like the following :

Friendliness : Americans. While many may not be the brightest tools in the shed in regards to the world around them, I haven't really found any one person there "pretentious". In general, I find people in Canada less approachable.

Cleanliness : Hands down, Canada. I guess living in Vancouver has me somewhat biased, but taking a similar city like Seattle in comparison; Vancouver has it beat - hands down.

Security/Safety : Again, Canada. Even though Americans per se are friendlier, I feel much more secure in Canada. I don't sit in my house having to think about the possibility of a bomb dropping on my head - because we simply don't go around the world trying to stir up the shit. Look at Iraq (it's become a cliche now) - but wouldn't it have been easier solving problems at home first? And everyone constantly pigeon holes East-Hastings as being a horrifying and filthy place. Sure, it ain't a pretty part of town - but I could still walk through it without fearing for my life. I can't say the same thing about the entire neighbourhood of Inglewood/Compton. Here, you can make a wrong turn, and get out with no big fuss. Try taking a wrong turn into the LA ghetto, and then tell me you don't feel the least bit uncomfortable.

When it boils down to it, no country is perfect. Every country wastes gov't money - that's what the gov't is for. If a country didn't waste money, you were probably dreaming.

So, in short, even though we pay higher-taxes here, the quality of life (for me anyway) is so far superior, that it is worth it in the end. That doesn't mean I hate the US, or would never visit again (even though I dislike the Bush administration). The US is nice, in it's own unique way - that much can be said!  Smile

-Rob
What other people think of you is none of your business!
 
LSTC
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Sun Sep 21, 2003 11:01 am

Remember about two years ago, when 1/10 of the entire armour of Forces Canada was held hostage on a freighter in the middle of the Atlantic because the Shipper hadn't been paid by the broker who had the transport contract?

Remember when Bush said he was going to invade Iraq because they had weapons of mass destruction and that it would be over within a couple of weeks and then after several months and thousands of dead later, he's asking for international help because he finally realized the US can't do it themselves and they really should have left the UN to solve the crisis?

We can swap obscure military stories here aimed at embarassing each other's armed forces. But they just detract from the topic and prove nothing...

[Edited 2003-09-21 04:04:46]
 
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yyz717
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Sun Sep 21, 2003 11:20 am

You're all discussing very minor degrees of difference. Bottom line is that both countries have their pluses and minuses.

I'm also a Canadian who has lived in both countries (like Boeing 757/767 and Captainstabbin) and I feel quite at home in both countries. There are to my mind only minor cultural differences. When I was in the US, I longed for certain minor Canadianisms and now I'm in YYZ I long for a few minor US-isms.

What I reject though is left-wing Canadian ideologues who have never lived anywhere other than in one Cdn city and seem to have an inherent knee-jerk hatred for the American way of life for no real reason.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
LSTC
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Sun Sep 21, 2003 11:31 am

I refuse to answer this blatant flamebait.



[Edited 2003-09-21 04:34:33]
 
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yyz717
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Sun Sep 21, 2003 12:08 pm

I actually became a more passionate Canadian by living in the US and then returning.

Have you ever lived in the US LSTC?
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Guest

RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Sun Sep 21, 2003 12:17 pm

You should have seen LSTC's initial response...too bad he edited it.
 
L-188
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Sun Sep 21, 2003 12:19 pm

Ummmm LSTC....

What thousands of US dead?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
LSTC
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Sun Sep 21, 2003 12:30 pm

L-188,

My post said "thousands of dead later" not "US dead" as your post states.

Capt,

Yes...I felt it better not to fall for the bait and revised my post.
 
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yyz717
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Sun Sep 21, 2003 12:58 pm

LSTC, where did you live in the US? As a Canadian, you seem to have alot of opinions about US life? They must come from personal experience.

You should have seen LSTC's initial response...too bad he edited it.

I read it! LOL.  Insane




I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
LSTC
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Sun Sep 21, 2003 1:02 pm

Continuing to ignore the flamebait...and stalking.
 
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yyz717
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Sun Sep 21, 2003 1:04 pm

Anyway, the main point is that most Cdns and American would feel right at home in each others countries soon after moving. Our similarities far outweigh our differences.

The article which is the subject of this thread is very tongue-in-cheek. I find it more amusing than complementary to Canada.



[Edited 2003-09-21 06:35:47]
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
777YYC
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Sun Sep 21, 2003 3:26 pm

Wow, I thought my thread was dead and then, pow, I got a flame war.  Laugh out loud
 
LSTC
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Sun Sep 21, 2003 11:14 pm

I find it more amusing than complementary to Canada.


Yes...that's the way I feel about you too!

 Smile

(A little "tongue in cheek" comment)

[Edited 2003-09-21 16:16:22]
 
Guest

RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:32 am

Wow...LSTC and YYZ717 actually agree on something! Should I break out the champagne? :-p
 
StarAC17
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Mon Sep 22, 2003 1:26 am

Captainstabbin,

When I next visit Vancouver i'll be sure to visit Hastings St.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
Guest

RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Mon Sep 22, 2003 1:37 am

Star: Actually, it's a place best avoided. Unless you're into drugs and prostitution...
 
StarAC17
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:15 am

Ok then I won't visit it. Just out of curiosity how close is it to Robson St. I might have been on this street without knowing it when I was there in 1999.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
mopac
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RE: It's Cooler In Canada

Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:25 am

>We don't need a big investment in national defense. We don't piss anyone off.
>realized the US can't do it themselves


Now how exactly is that supposed to work Confused I guess it's the old "if you never play you'll never lose" deal, let the US take all the heat then rail them for it.

But that's a great idea. Lets say for the heck of it, that the United States tomorrow were to say that the new foreign policy was to never piss anyone off and become neutral. All overseas bases were to close and all service personel brought home to be used in homeland defense. We then take all that money being spent on "security guarantees" overseas and use it to socialize healthcare, double foreign humanitarian aide, develop advanced homeland security defenses that encumber fewer freedoms, and stop flying Kofi Annan off to vacation in the South of France in U.S. Air Force GVs. Forget how totally impossible that would be, say we just did it. If the U.S. just disappeared from the international scene there would be big problems in Korea and the House of Al Sa'ud within weeks if not days. How would Canada contribute to the handeling of that situation based on: We don't need a big investment in national defense.? What about the rest of the Middle East? China? Africa? Would there be strife within Europe over France & Germany's handling of some of these situations? What would Canada's role then be in global stability? Is there a global cruise control? I sure wish there was, but if the U.S. wasn't as involved to the degree it currently is then you surly wouldn't be able to say: humanity over military. Besides, Canada is too nice for anyone to attack I don't think the U.S. should be as involved internationally as it is, but unless Americans, Canadians, Europeans and everyone else in the same boat decide they don't need electricity or global economic stability, or unless countries like Canada take up more of the slack I don't think less U.S. involvement is possible.

Anyway, the main point is that most Cdns and American would feel right at home in each others countries soon after moving. Our similarities far outweigh our differences.

I will go out on a limb and say that most people would agree that the average Joe's of Canada and the USA have more in common with each other than with any other nationalities. I lived an hour from the Mexican border when growing up, but I certainly feel I have more in common with someone from Calgary than Saltillo.

MoPac

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