A true protector of American citizens....
A true protect of Fascism is more like it. He's a nut, and he's the most dangerous man in the United States.
Overreaction? Three people werent killed, three thousand were..
It doesn't matter if 3 or 3000 died in this context, Jcs. When the government uses "national security" to put in draconian measures to "protect" us, and it cuts into the freedoms and liberties of ONE American, it's an over-reaction. Just as McCarthyism was an over-reaction to Communism, and did NOTHING to keep us any safer from the communists, the Patriot Act is just a carte blanche for Herr Ashcroft to round up anyone who looks suspicious to him.
Do you know that he-ALONE-has the ability to free any of these prisoners under the Patriot Act-or to keep them incarcerated indefinitely? And THAT
fact doesn't scare you? This man wields incredible power, and he's the kind of lunatic who will use it. When one man in a democratic society can wield such power, all our liberties are threatened.
Tell me what is supposed to happen?
Gee, I don't know-how about reasonably increasing our capabilities to find terorists, instead of going berserk over this thing, and trying to wipe out the First Amendment of the Constitution or the whole Bill of Rights? Do you REALLY want the police in on EVERYTHING you might do, in the name of "national security"? I don't. We can secure our borders without destroying the very principals that America has lived on for 227 years.
Quit with the insults, it doesnt make your arguments any more valid.
There wasn't a single insult in there-unless you're referring to me comparing Ashcroft to the Nazi's, which I think is an accurate comparison. Other than that, find me an insult?
I cant beleive you actually think that this is turning into Nazi Germany.
I did not say that it IS
turning into Nazi Germany, but a scared society, like the Weimar Republic was in Germany between 1919 and 1931, and like the U.S. is today-at least people like you are scared-then people sometimes are willing to do ANYTHING, and agree to ANYTHING, to feel more "secure", and that includes giving up freedoms; or fingering a neighbor simply because of his race, his religion or the color of his skin. It's happened many times before, and, if we give into our fears, as you obviously have, it COULD happen here, and quite easily.
One thing conservatives like you will never admit to is the fact that this country would NEVER accept a left-wing, or a communist dictatorship, but this country would, under the right, tragic circumstances, welcome a right-wing dictatorship. Will that ever happen? God willing, no it won't, but when we have a lunatic like Ashcroft running around, trying to convince everyone that he should have MORE power that steps well beyond the principals that have guided this country for 2 and a quarter centuries, then the alarm bells should be going off.
In the '40s we rounded up ALL Japanese Americans and moved them to internment camps.
And before he died, FDR, who was a bigger defender of Americans than that Nazi who's picture you posted above, said it was one decision he deeply regretted. My eye doctor growing up-an native of this country ,who was of Japanese descent, spent 3 years in one of those fucking places-stripped of all dignity and humanity-and you want us to try it again, perhaps? Doesn't that give you pause, to see we did it before, and what shame it brought to our nation? And guess what? The threat we faced then was imminently more perilous than the one we face today. So if you're advocating we round up Muslims and Arabs, simply because we did it in 1940, then we haven't learned one damn thing since then.
I mean, go to Embry-Riddle, and you will see hundreds of Arab students practicing aviation.
So, you are a racist? Are you saying we should BAN Arabs from going to flying school? Doesn't that sound a bit like the Nazi's saying Jews could not hold jobs? Think about it! And think about that Pandora's box that you want opened. If we take away their freedom to want to learn to fly-and most are doing it SIMPLY TO
FLY, then what freedoms are next to be taken away from them-the freedom to worship? The freedom the protest? The freedom to wear native clothing? Again, I don't think you understand, once you open a can of worms like this, it's almost impossible to close.
And you'll say, "well, that doesn't affect me", but it does, more than you realize. If one person's freedom to live under the premise of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" are trampled, then there's nothing there to stop yours from being trampled on, either.
The only Arabs that need to be worried are those that are planning terrorist acts.
Wrong. ANY Arab can be a target, simply because THEY ARE ARAB! Can you tell by looking at someone that they're a terrorist? You go on the premise that ALL
Arabs are suspects, else you wouldn't want to ban them from learning to fly! Again, you're playing modern McCarthylsm here-guilt by association. That's dangerous, and it's a danger to the freedom of everyone in this country.
. Its not like we pick up Joe Arab on the street and instantly send him to Gitmo because of the color of his skin.
How do you know? Many of these "suspects" are held incommunicado in undisclosed locations, not even allowed to have access to a lawyer or family members! So how do you know that's true? Indeed, we've heard of cases of young Arab men being picked up simply BECAUSE they were young Arab men. If that's true, then how do you account for what happened to Sean when in Canada, trying to enter the U.S.-and he's not even Arab! It's a paranoia that's swept our law enforcement agencies, at the behest of an administration that has no qualms about being paranoid. The fact is, if I were an Arab man in this nation, I'd be scared to death right now. You just don't seem to get that.
There is still a need for SUFFICIENT evidence for the government to even take him in to question him.
That's not true under the PA. These people don't have to be told what they're charged with-or even IF
they're being charged; they can be held without bail; they can be held and not given access to a lawyer. They can be held AT
THE WILL of the government, without sufficient evidence, and this call of "national security" is letting them get away with these fascist tactics.
No shit, and that is exactly what is going on.
Wrong. The government can check anyone's mail they want, and that's what is scary. Amazing, that a conservative mantra is to be wary of big government, of it intruding in one's life, but here, you're all for Uncle Sam putting his nose where it doesn't belong-in my privacy. Sorry, but Uncle Sam can stick it up his ass in this case. What is going on is Big Brother, circa 2003, and it's a threat to our liberties.
NO ONE is saying that we will turn this into internments from 41-45.
41 to 45 is when we fought global fascism, Jcs. I wasn't referring to the internment camps. We fought against the very ideals that assholes like Ashcroft are trying to institute in this country, and that's a disservice to every man and woman who died in that conflict.
There were no communists running around plotting to kill thousands of Americans.
It was called the Soviet Union, Jcs, and they DID plot to destroy the U.S. They were the antipathy of freedom and liberty, and so is this Justice Department under John Ashcroft.
..if a person is suspected of plotting a terrorist act then the government should be fully allowed to do what is necessary to keep the rest of America safe..
Even the loss of their liberty? Even the loss of those "Inalienable Rights" that our founding fathers laid down over 200 years ago? If I need to choose between "protected" and losing my liberty, and having my freedom and being less protected, I'll take the latter, Jcs. I'd rather die than live in a police state that you would have us live under solely to "protect" us. Without freedom, life is NOT worth living, and I'd lay down my life to protect that freedom. You can have your police state, thank you.
Dont like my views? I should leave? Nice try, pinko. Kicking me out for my views...LOL
No, I DESPISE your views. Your views are the anthisis to everything that this nation was founded on; it's the anthises of everything our fighting men and woman have died for in war after war for 227 years; it's the anthisis of the mantra of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." And you wouldn't know what a real "pinko" was, son, if he came up and slapped you across the face. I'm a patriot. I'm more of a patriot than the likes of you, who are willing to sacrifice others' freedoms-and, in the end-your own, because you're scared and because you want a guarantee that we'll never be hurt again.
I'm not kicking you out of anything, I'm just letting know that you're as un-American as they come for avowing such fascist views. Don't like that. Too bad. Run to mom and dad and protest instead. Seig Heil, Jcs.