FlyVirgin744
Posts: 1282
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 1999 8:35 am

IP Address Question

Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:55 pm

I have a few security questions about IP addresses.

When you log onto a website, you give out your IP, but what other information can that website get?

As an example, I'm a member of this website, could Johan if he wanted use my IP to figure out what my real name is just based on my IP, perhaps because I'm a member? Can he link my IP with the username FlyVirgin744? or does he only see that my IP has visited this site and nothing else?

Last question, does my own IP change with every ISP that I use? Like if I'm online thru ethernet by Gainesville Regional Utility, I pull out the ethernet cord and sign onto a AOL via a phone line, do they assign me a new IP?

Thanks in advanced,

Matt
Sometimes I go about in pity for myself and all the while a great wind carries me across the sky.
 
sebolino
Posts: 3495
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 11:26 pm

RE: IP Address Question

Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:02 am

The IP address cannot give information about you, except from the country where you are.
The IP is given to you by your ISP, and is most probably dynamic (ie change at every connection).

It changes at each ISP change, of course.

Basically, the IP can be seen like:

CountryNumber.IspNumber.CustomerNumber

or more precisely

NetworkAddress.MachineAddress, the NetworkAddress giving information about the location and the ISP.



[Edited 2003-09-18 17:03:33]
 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: IP Address Question

Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:50 am

What he said  Wink/being sarcastic

The IP address is usually assigned to you by your ISP. It's possible to get a fixed one if you really want it, but this costs extra, so you're unlikely to have a fixed IP without asking for it.

It can generally only be traced to your IP. If you did something really naughty, A.net could contact your ISP, but there's no guarantee they'd do anything about it.

It's possible to get other information - for instance, A.net could tell which version of browser you're using. It's still not enough to identify you.

However, if you're logged in, A.net can associate your Flyvirgin744 ID with your IP address and browsing habits.
Cunning linguist
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: IP Address Question

Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:02 am

How is the RIAA then finding the people downloading the music? What are they looking for when the subpoena the ISP?
 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: IP Address Question

Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:11 am

They contact your ISP and say:

"Somebody downloaded / shared copyrighted material (without permission) via one of your IP addresses. They did it at 13:20 on 9/9/03. Tell us who was using that IP address at that time, or we'll sue you lots."

The ISP then hands over account details (if they have them) to the RIAA. The RIAA then sends a subpoena to the account holder.

The ISP might not always have account details - there are lots of services (in most countries) that just let you dial in without an account; they get money from call termination charges. In this case, the ISP would give the RIAA all it knew - your phone number - and then the RIAA would pursue the telco for your details.

And so on.
Cunning linguist
 
rabenschlag
Posts: 1011
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 10:28 pm

RE: IP Address Question

Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:17 am

here in germany, ISP are obliged to keep tracks of IP-telephone number (if call by call) or IP-user assignment for half a year.

this basically means:

if someone knows your ISP (say because you visited a specific site at a specific time) he could contact your ISP and he would be able to link this dynamic IP to you personally, because it is logged who was assigned to a given IP at a given time.

of course, your ISP is only allowed to give that information to a prosecutor if there is a suspect that you committed a crime. it should be pretty much the same in the US, and I think this is the way cought the poor souls who fooled the music industry.


cheerio, r.


PS. and there are many other ways to identify you if you are uncatious. e.g., you have windows xp, you enter your real name into your user profile (you must enter something upon installation) - bang - if you visit a site, someone can read your cookies which then contain your real name. and the like.


 
Guest

RE: IP Address Question

Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:19 am

Actually, some of the later versions of Kazaa and Kazaa lite have software than scramble or block your IP address entirely. There's even a program called Earth Station 5 that completely masks your IP address and claims total anonymity. They said they’re launching a war against the entertainment industry.

Anyone know more information about Earth Station 5? Seems kind of weird to use.
 
Guest

RE: IP Address Question

Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:22 am

PS. and there are many other ways to identify you if you are uncatious. e.g., you have windows xp, you enter your real name into your user profile (you must enter something upon installation) - bang - if you visit a site, someone can read your cookies which then contain your real name. and the like.

I'm not the most computer savvy person in the world. Is there a way to change this?
 
rabenschlag
Posts: 1011
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 10:28 pm

RE: IP Address Question

Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:33 am

captain:

yes, use multiple users. add a user with a fake id, make sure that this user is an administrator and then use this profile for browsing the web.

 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: IP Address Question

Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:44 am

Actually, some of the later versions of Kazaa and Kazaa lite have software than scramble or block your IP address entirely. There's even a program called Earth Station 5 that completely masks your IP address and claims total anonymity. They said they’re launching a war against the entertainment industry.

A genuine (and unique) IP address is an absolute requirement for any data to reach your PC. There are a dozen different ways to conceal your IP address from the person at the other end - either intentionally, or for innocent technical reasons - but they all require that somebody else in the chain knows your IP address in order to get the data to your PC.

Any anonymising service, regardless of the mechanism, must know your IP address. The RIAA could send them a subpoena. Therefore, if you're really paranoid, choose one based in a country out of the RIAA's reach; or choose one that isn't required by law to retain your details after you disconnect. Good luck.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Alternatively, use an internet cafe, or connect through a contract-less mobile phone!
Cunning linguist
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: IP Address Question

Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:20 am

Captain, Bobrayner, Rabenschlag - Great info!

Thanks.

-76M
 
FlyVirgin744
Posts: 1282
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 1999 8:35 am

RE: IP Address Question

Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:15 am

Please see if I have this correctly based on the information from above:

Situation: I'm logged in as a first class member, and a few days later, Johan wants to know my IP, he could get it by linking my a.net name with my IP address (because I was logged into his website).
Sometimes I go about in pity for myself and all the while a great wind carries me across the sky.
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6058
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: IP Address Question

Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:11 am

Hey, in Denmark, the RIAA have a very worthy opponent - they don't need a warrant to enter your house, and if you refuse, they'll get one - without showing a shred of evidence. Oh - and according to them, a IRC client ranks next to Kazaa, because you can share files with it...  Insane

As for me, I've always had a fixed IP, because I occasionally use my PC for various servers  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: IP Address Question

Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:11 am

Situation: I'm logged in as a first class member, and a few days later, Johan wants to know my IP, he could get it by linking my a.net name with my IP address (because I was logged into his website).

Yes, presuming Johan is keeping logs. However, your IP might change during those few days.
Cunning linguist
 
FlyVirgin744
Posts: 1282
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 1999 8:35 am

RE: IP Address Question

Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:34 am

Ok, last thing.

Say that I lived in a large apartment complex with its own T3 and free internet to all rooms in every 4-bedroom apartment. Meaning, I never had to set up an internet account, I just plug into the apartments own ISP which has dynamic IPs.

Do you think there is any way for anything to be traced back to "my" computer. I suppose the only way they could is if they are keeping logs of IPs to every port to every room since there are no accounts. But can they do that? Have a log to just ports? or does it need to be an account?

Or perhaps, once I connect to an apartments internet, can they take information from my computer so that they know exactly who is using that IP that day?


Well now that I'm thinking, last year in the dorms, it was a scenario just like this. You plugged into the wall ethernet and you had internet. However, if you tried going onto kazaa, they took away your internet. How do they know who's doing it? Does the university assign every dorm room a single IP (non-dynamic) so that way they know exactly who tried going onto kazaa? Are their any other ways they can do that?

I guess the main question is, do non-account ISPs take information from the computers in their network (like mine), so they know where each IP is going (again, like my computer) for whatever period of time?
Sometimes I go about in pity for myself and all the while a great wind carries me across the sky.
 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: IP Address Question

Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:09 am

Accounts aren't needed in this context.

When you first try connecting to a fixed network, your computer doesn't have an IP address - it has no practical way of communicating on the network, just a very basic identifier called a MAC address (which is hardwired into your PC). So, it just hollers "somebody give me an IP address!" until it gets an answer.

Your network will have a DHCP server of some description, which is listening for this. It responds to your PC with an offer of an IP address (the address is leased, for a limited time, but it gets renewed automatically if you stay online). The server has a pool of addresses that it can offer to PCs. It might offer one at random, or the network admin might have set up some particular rules for how they are allocated. They might even have told the DHCP server to reserve one address for each PC, in which case you effectively get a fixed IP.

The DHCP server remembers who it leased the IP address to; so your network admin can find out at least your MAC address. They can probably trace other details - port number, and/or hostname. You might be free to change the latter. If they offer anything more than basic network connectivity (IE they have a Windows domain, or whatever), this will will store more information that your network admins might use.

For the purposes of this post: Anything qualified with "can", "might", "probably", &c. is technically possible, but we can only guess as to whether or not it's actually done in that building.
Cunning linguist

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