Alpha 1
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Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Thu Sep 25, 2003 11:15 am

Ah, yes, another "victory" for Conservatives in the U.S., although sounds like people in Africa are the losers.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030924/ts_nm/health_gag_dc_7

Study: U.S. Abortion Policy Closes African Clinics
Wed Sep 24, 4:19 PM ET Add Top Stories - Reuters to My Yahoo!


By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Correspondent

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites)'s anti-abortion policy has forced family planning clinics in poor countries to close, leaving some communities without any healthcare, according to a report issued Wednesday.

Even faith-based clinics that promote abstinence -- in line with White House policy -- have had to close, according to organizers.

Under the policy, known as the Mexico City rule by supporters and the Global Gag rule by opponents, foreign family planning agencies cannot receive U.S. funds if they provide abortion services or lobby to make or keep abortion legal in their own country.

A survey of Ethiopia, Kenya, Romania and Zambia by Population Action International and the Planned Parenthood (news - web sites) Federation of America showed the rule had forced clinics to close and left many men and women without access to contraceptives that could prevent both unwanted pregnancies and AIDS (news - web sites).

"You cannot separate HIV (news - web sites)/AIDS, reproductive health and abortion," said Hillary Fyfe, who heads the Family Life Movement of Zambia, a faith-based group working with adolescents on sex education.

While her group does not promote abortion or even condom use, it does talk about the possibility, and that was enough to lose U.S. funding, Fyfe said. Three clinics in Lusaka closed this year.

"We taught natural family planning and abstinence until marriage," Fyfe said in an interview. Now her group will be unable to holds its workshops unless they can find alternative funding, Fyfe said.

The same is happening in several countries, according to the report.

"Health services have been scaled back and closings of reproductive health clinics have left some communities with no healthcare provider," the group wrote in a statement.


HURTING AIDS EFFORTS

The policy has also hurt AIDS prevention efforts, said the group, which published the findings on the Internet at www.globalgagrule.org.

As one of his first acts in office in 2001, Bush reinstated the rule that former President Bill Clinton (news - web sites), a Democrat, had lifted. The rule was originally imposed in 1984 by President Ronald Reagan (news - web sites) at a Mexico City conference.

Last month Bush ordered the State Department to strengthen the rule by withholding U.S. family planning help from overseas groups that promote or perform abortions with their own money.

Five family planning clinics run by nongovernmental organizations have closed in Kenya because they refused the restrictions and lost funding from the U.S. Agency for International development, the report said.

"As a result, they are prevented from participating in a large-scale integrated health care program funder by the U.S. Agency for International Development, which curtails the effectiveness and reach of the program," the report reads.

In Kenya's Mathare Valley, a family planning clinic closed, leaving 300,000 people with no healthcare services. "And there is no other family planning or reproductive health clinic nearby," the report said.

In Romania, women may be more likely to get abortions, not fewer, because the rule has meant more women cannot get any information on contraceptives that can prevent unwanted pregnancies, the report said.

"This is the real face of Bush's compassionate conservatism -- a war on the world's most vulnerable women and children, who bear the brunt of Bush's obsession with appeasing his domestic political base," Planned Parenthood's Gloria Feldt said in a statement.

But White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said the policy only affected family planning clinics, not general health clinics.

"The president had just unveiled a $15 billion program to address the biggest healthcare crisis facing Africa, which is AIDS," she said in a telephone interview. "Any organization that wants to participate in delivering healthcare services relating to AIDS can do so."
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Yes, you can join, just as so we can shove our "values" down your throat in the process. So compassionate.
 
FlyVirgin744
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Thu Sep 25, 2003 11:46 am

I just think its rediculous that from now on every president that comes into office will change this policy based on his/her belief. All of these clinics now have to pay attention American politics I suppose.
Sometimes I go about in pity for myself and all the while a great wind carries me across the sky.
 
b757300
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:03 pm

Why should my tax dollars be shipped over to Africa in order to kill unborn children? Maybe if people would stop getting pregnant over and over we wouldn't even have to hear about this. Besides, sending billions every year to Africa is nothing more than political pandering to various interest groups.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
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yyz717
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:08 pm

I fully agree with B757300.

It's high time for Africans to solve African problems.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:17 pm

Why should my tax dollars be shipped over to Africa in order to kill unborn children?

I guess letting others suffer from AID and other diseases, because they can't find an open clinic anymore is OK, simply to keep your "values" on abortion, B757300? What is the greater evil-abortions in an over-populated area, of denying basic healthcare to thousands upon thousdands of people because of the intrastringence of people like you?

And gee, Yyz717, amazing you agree with B757300. Stop the presses. You two certinly have no compassion in your souls, that's for sure. So let thousands of Africans die, you're conscience-what little you have is clear. You're both pathetic.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:51 pm

You two certinly have no compassion in your souls, that's for sure.

Actually, we are showing concern Alpha. Africa needs to stand on its own feet and cannot until the ruinous foreign aid stops. It's called tough love.

B757300 and I are merely showing a difference of opinion to you. Why do you immediately take the low road and start with the insults on our character?  Insane

How does the following contribute to this thread:
You're both pathetic.

Let's discuss this as adults. NO insults.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Thu Sep 25, 2003 1:02 pm

Insults? I thought I was telling the truth? You guys just assume let all those people die, now that these clinics are closed? "Pathetic" wasn't meant as an insult, Yyz717, it was meant as a description to how utterly unfeeling, uncaring and unhuman you both are.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Thu Sep 25, 2003 1:05 pm

it was meant as a description to how utterly unfeeling, uncaring and unhuman you both are.

 Insane There you go again. Why the personal insults and attacks? Why can't you discuss the issue, instead of hurling stuff like this?

Maybe, I think there would be fewer deaths over the long term if Africa had to stand on its own feet now.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
pacificjourney
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Thu Sep 25, 2003 3:14 pm

Yet again the outraged tax payers weigh in with their well thought out arguements.

Of course it would be interesting to know just how much taxes students such as B757300 pay or have ever payed and how much taxes they have consumed opr consume right now (subsidised education anyone ?).

Apparently some peoples problems deserve attention and others can just die quietly please.
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
cfalk
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Thu Sep 25, 2003 3:20 pm

Granting all the abortions African women can physically stand will not help the AIDS crisis. Getting them and the men to stop fu&%ing everyone they meet will be much more constructive. Abortion is a side issue.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Thu Sep 25, 2003 4:26 pm

Alpha1,

In your glee to bash Bush with anything you can find, you seem to have neglected a VERY important part of this whole mess.

As stated above by B757300 and others, why the hell are US Taxpayer dollars going to fund any clinics in Africa when we have children living in this country that go to bed hungry every night, cannot afford to go to a doctor, etc? If our own house was in order (and I'm certain you'll twist this arguement so that you can once again blast Bush for all of the ills in the world), THEN I could see us reaching out to other countries, but it isn't and we shouldn't be sending ANY money overseas - Whether the President was Clinton, Bush or anybody else! (Of course, if this was Clinton, THEN it would be prefectly OK with you).

I am glad for you Alpha1, that you apparently are well-off enough that you do not have to worry about this but there are hundreds of thousands of your own countrymen and women who are not so well off. Think they give a damn if a clinic in Africa loses its funding? Think they would rather see that funding spent here? On fellow Americans? First? They certainly would. Pray to whatever being you believe in that you never find yourself in that kind of predicament. It is a difficult choice to have to choose which child gets to go to the doctor this month because that's all your company insurance, and what's left of your paycheck, will allow. It's made even more difficult when your own government will not help you out but sends millions of dollars overseas to help out Africa, Isreal and every other third-world country that needs it (which, by most accounts, only a fraction of those funds actually make it to their intended target).

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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bobrayner
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Thu Sep 25, 2003 5:07 pm

I'm not going to criticise this. Whatever the evils of conditional aid, it's much better than no aid at all.

However, if you really think that funding is generous, compare your foreign humanitarian aid (as a % of GDP) to the aid given by other affluent countries.
Cunning linguist
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Thu Sep 25, 2003 11:03 pm

However, if you really think that funding is generous, compare your foreign humanitarian aid (as a % of GDP) to the aid given by other affluent countries.

And how many of those "other affluent countries" have socialized medicine and programs to properly care for their own people? Probably the majority of them but not the good old USA! Here we are left to deal with it on our own (as Medicare/Medicaid pay for almost nothing but routine check-ups). Try getting treatment for a catastrophic illness such as cancer from Medicare/Medicaid! Good Luck!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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ben
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Fri Sep 26, 2003 12:06 am

It's high time for Africans to solve African problems.

..and we will keep plundering their natural resources, propping up dictators 'sympathetic' to our cause, and shafting them with our western-world farm subsidies.

Cool.
 
GDB
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Fri Sep 26, 2003 2:23 am

Yeah go ahead, help create more failed states, which in the past have been havens for terrorists, for a variety of reasons.
What goes around comes around.
 
StarAC17
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Fri Sep 26, 2003 2:48 am

Why should my tax dollars be shipped over to Africa in order to kill unborn children? Maybe if people would stop getting pregnant over and over we wouldn't even have to hear about this. Besides, sending billions every year to Africa is nothing more than political pandering to various interest groups.

Most of the nations is Africa do not have the resources to educate the people about birth control, may it be because of war, bad leadership, exploitation etc. If we could assist them in reaching a suitable level of education and development. I am pretty sure that the population growth will decrease rapidly. Ironically what Bush is asking for Iraq is much more than is needed to actually feed and educate people in Africa to a suitable level so this population expansion can be controlled.

Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
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yyz717
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Fri Sep 26, 2003 2:58 am

and we will keep plundering their natural resources

Any natural resources from Africa are purchased. What Africa does with the proceeds is up to them. Nigeria has "lost" an estimated $100B in oil revenue due to corruption; Zambia has lost $B's due in copper revenue due to corruption.

Ultimately, Africa much solve its own problems.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
cfalk
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Sat Sep 27, 2003 1:57 am

Are the people who say that we (the developed countries) should take a more direct role in solving Africa's problems the same people who complain about doing exactly that in Iraq?

Just wondering...

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
mbmbos
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Sat Sep 27, 2003 2:13 am

"Getting them and the men to stop fu&%ing everyone they meet will be much more constructive."

So now you're telling us that African men and women are sexually promiscuous? Care to back that up?

That's an outrageously offensive remark, CFalk!
 
JAL777
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Sat Sep 27, 2003 2:20 am

The African promiscuity arguement is a myth and has no basis.
 
 
cptkrell
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Sat Sep 27, 2003 4:24 am

When "we" (the U.S.) sends money to other nations for help, you are damn right it should be conditional. This is the same endless crap; the U.S. is getting bitched at because it's helping other nations. Not good enough! Just send the money without conditions or qualifications! Are you friggin' serious?

Try this sophomoric analogy (it might even help some people on this forum to think); go to your bank for money on a new car, and use half the money to go out drinking and the other half to buy a used clunker. Present THAT clunker title to your money-man in good faith and see the reaction.

I know this sounds very simplistic, and I personally would opt out of foreign aid to a large degree (like I said, we try to help but just get bitched at all the time), but irrespective of the misguided opinions about "impiralist" adventures, the US is a very compassionate collection of peoples who are largely in support of helping others. And yes, disagree with terms and conditions if you will , but that's the way it is and that's the way it should be...Jack
all best; jack
 
GDB
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Sat Sep 27, 2003 7:51 am

Aid is one thing, distorting to fit the seemingly puritan nature of some domestic US politics is quite another.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:25 am

Aid is one thing, distorting to fit the seemingly puritan nature of some domestic US politics is quite another.

Ummm...no, it's not. The US has the absolute right to put conditions on its aid, as Cptkrell mentioned.

Very few things in life are free, although 3rd world aid seems to be one of them. Well, it needs to change. Africa has been a sinkhole for Western aid for far too long. Let them sink or swim (like the rest of us have to).







I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
JA54123
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Sat Sep 27, 2003 11:16 am

If they want our money then they have to follow our rules, it's that simple. Plus if we want to control disease, then we need to find a cure not just tell people to not screw, cause that won't happen. Also, as far as birth control I have a friend that her company has a new technique that consists of radioactive pellets inserted into the Fallopian tubes that cause them to scar shut and prevent pregnancy from then on, and it isn't reversible and it can be done as an office procedure by nurse practitioners. Now that would be a solution instead of the abortions that cost much more and are unnecessary and irresponsible in most cases.
You wouldn't understand, it's a Texas Thang!
 
cptkrell
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Sat Sep 27, 2003 11:30 am

Yikes! Even I must say, JA54123, that permanent sterilization would never be considered. Furthermore, it would prevent the spread of AIDS only to new pregnancies...jack
all best; jack
 
airplanetire
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RE: Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa

Sat Sep 27, 2003 12:04 pm

I remember reading an article a few months ago pretty much saying the same thing and it deeply bothers me. School sex education programs that teach abstinence only are a problem because that is not the reality. Options besides abstinence should be presented. Abstinence is the only sure way to prevent any problems associated with sex, but to promote only it is not realistic. It is impossible to keep millions of horny teenagers from having sex. Not providing any information of options other than abstinence, such as birth control and protection, and need be abortion (I'm not suggesting abortion should be used as birth control, but people make mistakes and having a child is an 18 year commitment that if it cannot be handled, should not be taken up.), there is no way to prevent things such as STDs, unwanted pregnancies, and yes, ABORTIONS. If people are not educated in ways to prevent pregnancies, then they will get pregnant. Higher rates of pregnancy will lead to higher rates of abortion, whether they be legal or illegal. The same applies with all of that to Africa.

When it comes to the question of US taxpayers paying for educating Africans in sex, that boils down to a question of values. I feel that the world is one big community, not many isolated ones taking care of only themselves, and in a community, fellow members are helped. Americans in general are fortunate enough to make so much money comparatively that I feel they can give something back to the community, our world and the people in it. It is not as if no money is being spent on the poor of America either. Think about what Americorps is.

...........Oh, but wait, our president just cut off a portion of funds to Americorps. Please complain to him about domestic poverty and do not blame it on the left wing. If you have a problem with anyone or anything, whether it be left or right wing, please propose a solution instead of just complain. Too many people do that. The world would be a better place if people offered solutions to their problems.

-Airplanetire

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