United777
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Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Sun Oct 05, 2003 6:28 pm

This just happened recently....

Israel has attacked a Islamic terror trainning camp outside of Damascus. The govt. is saying it is NOT revenge for the sucide attack earlier today but a expanded mission to wipe out terror groups.

More information soon....
 
Alessandro
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Sun Oct 05, 2003 6:33 pm

Seem like the first time since 1982 the IAF attacked targets inside Syria.
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jwenting
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:06 pm

well, if you consider Lebanon part of Syria it is. If not it's the first since 1976.
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Alessandro
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:28 pm

Well, www.reuters.com are my source what´s yours?
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LY744
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Sun Oct 05, 2003 10:48 pm

Just when you thought Israel's image could not get any worse... Not that there's anything wrong with destroying terrorist camps.

At any rate, this should satisfy Cedarjet, who has recently expressed deep concern as to the nature of the operational activity performed by IDF/AF pilots. Surely, there is some risk involved in striking targets within 10 miles of the Syrian capital?

LY744.
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galaxy5
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Sun Oct 05, 2003 11:12 pm

Good job to the IDF IAF, hopefully they wiped out many terrorist. This is the kind of aggressive posture one needs to take to eliminate the threat. Hopefully bush won't chastise Israel again ( which is one of the big faults i find with this admin) and allow them to do what needs to be done on this global war of terror.
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
cfalk
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Sun Oct 05, 2003 11:19 pm

Galaxy5, Israel NEEDS to get chastised over certain issues - most particularly their policies concerning the Wall and the settlements in West Bank and Gaza. Nothing justifies the Palestinians' use of terrorist tactics, but those settlements and Wall policies are akin to putting your head in the mouth of a lion or alligator - you're just begging for (more) trouble.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
BA
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 12:53 am

Jwenting,

Israel attacked Lebanon a month ago killing civilians in the attack.

They do fly overs about 2-3 times a week but during the summer they were doing them on a daily basis.

I took photos of them....

Once last summer, 3 Israeli F-16s flew sixty feet above Beirut breaking the sound barrier shattering windows EVERYWHERE and setting off car alarms.

The damage is in the thousands because so many windows were shattered.

The sound was death defying. It was as if a bomb was dropped over the city.

People started panicking and thought the Civil War had started again.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Alessandro
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 1:26 am

Seem like IAF do "Wild Weasel" runs over Beirut then?
The target in Syria seem to be caves, the caves seem to have been filmed on
Irani television (or at least Israel says so?)....
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BA
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 1:31 am

Basically Alessandro.........

Not only that, but the IAF started a forest fire in southern Lebanon a few months ago as well.

A nearby town had to be evacuated and those that couldn't be evacuated were burnt to death.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Alessandro
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 1:36 am

That´s the way it goes when you live in a war zone. Same goes for living in Kiryat Shimona....
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tbar220
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 3:36 am

Israel is doing what the rest of the middle eastern countries are not. The United States has put immense pressure on Syria to dismantle terrorist training camps within its borders. Not only do Hamas and Islamic Jihad have camps in Syria, Syria and Iran are the ones funding the terrorist group Hezbullah. What are they doing to clamp down on terrorism? Nothing.

And for those of you who attack Israel's every action, this attack was not on a civilian target. It was an attack on a terrorist base aimed at destroying their infrastructure.

From the Associated Press article:

Undated footage of the camp released by the Israeli military and taken from Iranian television shows a military officer conducting a tour. In one room were displayed hundreds of weapons, including grenades with Hebrew markings and other weapons apparently captured from Israel. Another scene showed a series of underground tunnels packed with arms and ammunition.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20031005/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_syria_9

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david b.
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 3:41 am

How about supersonic flight over Lebanon?

How do you explain that? That in itself is nothing more then high-tech terrorism.
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BA
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 3:46 am

Syria and Iran are the ones funding the terrorist group Hezbullah.

Hizbullah are not terrorists. Despite Israeli accusations, Hizbullah has never targetted civilians and since it's creation in 1982, there have been only 12 civilian casualties by Hizbullah. Not intentional, they just got caught in crossfire.

Hizbullah would fire anti-aircraft shells at Israeli warplanes flying over Lebanon, and the shell pieces would fall into Israel sometimes killing 1 or 2.

If Israel didn't do flyovers to BEGIN with, there would be NO Israeli civilian casualties from Hizbullah.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
david b.
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 4:03 am

Remember that Hizbullah was created because Israel invaded in the first place. Also, what the hell is the IAF doing overflights in Lebanon for??
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
BA
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 4:09 am

Remember that Hizbullah was created because Israel invaded in the first place.

Exactly, well said. They were created after the Israeli invasion of 1982.

Also, what the hell is the IAF doing overflights in Lebanon for??

Because they like to annoy the Lebanese. They signed an agreement in July 2000 to end flyovers over Lebanon after they pulled out of southern Lebanon and guess what? They broke the agreement one month later.

As a result, Hizbullah started an extremely aggressive campaign against the Israeli military.

In October 2000, they kidnapped 2 Israeli soldiers...

Here are two photos I took of IAF planes over Lebanon this past summer.

Now you ask how did I know these are IAF planes and not regular airliners flying high? Well, a few seconds before I spotted them, I heard the sonic boom:


Then about 10 seconds later I heard a sonic boom again, another one popped up:


As you can see they are extemely high. They are extremely high because Hizbullah anti-aircraft fire in the south forced them to reach higher altitudes.

That's about the only thing Hizbullah can do against IAF planes, just make them fly higher.

Regards

[Edited 2003-10-05 21:11:39]
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
david b.
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 4:12 am

You can tell from the contrail that it is a one engine plane (eg. F-16A).
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
GC
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:50 am

If the arab nations took some responsibility for the region instead of hiding behind their borders and earning millions in oil, revenue, them we wouldn't be in this position. Isreal, too, needs to make some changes to it's behavour but it must be very frustrated that the world critises it for defending a strip of land the size of wales against some huge hostile nations which surround it. I once heard a jew say, their are hundreds of thousands of square miles of Arab territory , in Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Jordan etc. but only a small slither for the Hebrews.
 
BA
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 6:13 am

If the arab nations took some responsibility for the region instead of hiding behind their borders and earning millions in oil, revenue, them we wouldn't be in this position.

Lebanon has no oil. Syria and Jordan have very small amounts of oil which aren't even enough to supply themselves. They don't export it.

Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan are by no means rich countries. They are poor, 3rd world countries.

Only the rich gulf nations such as Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, and Iraq have large oil reserves.

but only a small slither for the Hebrews.

And that small slither not only belongs to Hebrews, but also the Palestinians which have been living in that little slither of land for thousands of years.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
todaReisinger
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 6:20 am

"The Wall"


It's a security system aimed at preventing further horrors as the one of yesterday. And I hope you agree that everything should be done in order to attain this goal.


And btw, you don't need to use the word the Palestinian propagandists have selected...
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david b.
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:07 am

I do not.

And btw, you don't need to use the word the Isreali propagandists have selected...
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
GC
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:25 am

"And that small slither not only belongs to Hebrews, but also the Palestinians which have been living in that little slither of land for thousands of years."

There have been Jews in that area for thousands of years too. In recent history, before the 1940s Jew bought a great deal of land from Arab land owners in what was a sparsely populated country until thousands on "Palestinians" suddenly appeared in the 50s and 60s, who were moved in from (Trans) Jordan. Besides the land on which the Muslim mosque on the dome on the rock was built was bought and paid for by King David in 500bc, I wasn't aware that his desendabts sold it to Saladin in the middle ages. Even the Romans recognised the right of the tribes of Israel. The Israelis are far from being blameless, but please don't go down the propaganda line of the Arabs have more right to the land than they do. Abraham was from modern day Iraq, Hebrews and Arabs are closely related. During the British mandate, the UK gave Jordan to the Arabs and Israel to the Jews. On the declaration of independence, the Arab nations invaded Israel. Can you blame them for being sensitive. They just lost 8 million of their family in 1945, then in 1948 their cousins in the middle east wanted to wipe them out and "drive them into the sea". (Check your history books)


"Lebanon has no oil. Syria and Jordan have very small amounts of oil which aren't even enough to supply themselves. They don't export it.

Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan are by no means rich countries. They are poor, 3rd world countries."

Fair enough, but show me where they have condemned the killing of tourist and children by cowardly suicide bombers!

 
cfalk
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:30 am

BA,

If Hezbollah was not at terrorist organization, why do they posess and use weapons such as anti-aircraft guns and missiles? That is the Lebanese Army's job. Nobody else. You say they attack military targets in Israel. Are Israeli villages military targets? That's who they're dropping mortars on.

I'm not saying that Israel doesn't do some unjustifiable things, but as long as you, your countrymen and other Arabs refuse to concede that terrorist tactics are worse than anything the Israelis have ever done, and start to reel them in yourselves, Palestine will never be independant, and Western countries will be forced, however reluctantly, to look the other way when Israel goes after terrorists themselves. It is you and those who think like you that legitimize Israeli hard-line tactics.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
BA
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:37 am

There have been Jews in that area for thousands of years too. In recent history, before the 1940s Jew bought a great deal of land from Arab land owners in what was a sparsely populated country until thousands on "Palestinians" suddenly appeared in the 50s and 60s, who were moved in from (Trans) Jordan. Besides the land on which the Muslim mosque on the dome on the rock was built was bought and paid for by King David in 500bc, I wasn't aware that his desendabts sold it to Saladin in the middle ages. Even the Romans recognised the right of the tribes of Israel. The Israelis are far from being blameless, but please don't go down the propaganda line of the Arabs have more right to the land than they do. Abraham was from modern day Iraq, Hebrews and Arabs are closely related. During the British mandate, the UK gave Jordan to the Arabs and Israel to the Jews. On the declaration of independence, the Arab nations invaded Israel. Can you blame them for being sensitive. They just lost 8 million of their family in 1945, then in 1948 their cousins in the middle east wanted to wipe them out and "drive them into the sea". (Check your history books)

You're mistaken. The first people to found the land were the Canaanites who came from the Gulf. Then the descendants of the Canaanites, the Philistines ruled the land.

When Moses led the Jews out of Egypt, they went into Palestine and were warmly accepted. They stayed for 72 years then most left and went to other parts of the world. Those that stayed are what you would call Arab Jews who are anti-zionists.

As for the thousands of Palestinians coming in to Palestine from transjordan in the 50's and 60's, that's not true at all.

I am of Palestinian descent and my family came from Haifa and Acre. We trace our routes back thousands of years to the original Canaanites.

Not to mention after the Israeli state was created in 1948, Palestinians were not allowed to go back to there lands. Those that left couldn't go back and that rule still exists today.

I cannot go back to my homeland.

Jews have always been in Palestine. It was just that though, they lived in what they called Palestine under Palestinian rule.

According to a census conducted by the Ottoman Empire, the Jewish population in Palestine was just 4%. They've always been there since Moses led the Jews out of Egypt, but they've always been a minority.

Tell me, how is it fair that 4% of a people took over the entire land leaving the Palestinians with nothing? How do you think my family ended up in Lebanon?
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
N79969
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:38 am

Well put Charles. I could not have said it better.
 
BA
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:43 am

If Hezbollah was not at terrorist organization, why do they posess and use weapons such as anti-aircraft guns and missiles?

They don't have missiles. They only have anti-aircraft guns and they have them because they can have them.

That is the Lebanese Army's job.

Because the Lebanese Army is unexperienced while Hizbullah is.

You say they attack military targets in Israel. Are Israeli villages military targets?

They have never attacked Israeli villages with mortars. The only times they use mortars were against the Israeli military forces occupying southern Lebanon and the Shebaa farms.

The only times Hizbullah projectiles have fell in Israeli villages are when anti-aircraft shells fired at aircraft fall to the ground.

That's why in the past 20 years, there have been only 12 Israeli casualties as a result of Hizbullah. They were caught in crossfire.

Not only has Hizbullah killed Israelis, but when they'd combat the Israeli army in southern Lebanon, Lebanese would be killed as well.

I'm not saying that Israel doesn't do some unjustifiable things, but as long as you, your countrymen and other Arabs refuse to concede that terrorist tactics are worse than anything the Israelis have ever done, and start to reel them in yourselves, Palestine will never be independant, and Western countries will be forced, however reluctantly, to look the other way when Israel goes after terrorists themselves. It is you and those who think like you that legitimize Israeli hard-line tactics.

So tell me, patriots that fight against occupation are terrorists?

Where the French that fought against the Germans terrorists because they were fighting for there land which was being taken over by the Nazis?

I get it Charles, anytime Arabs attack Israel they are always terrorists. Yet ANYTIME Israel attacks Arabs, they are commandoes?
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
LY744
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:43 am

BA:

"Hizbullah has never targetted civilians"

What the hell do you call firing artillery rockets ("Katyushas") at Kyriat Shmona?! The nature (accuracy) of the weapon means it can only be used against large targets such as a city, which has been done intentionally hundreds of times over the course of two decades (and was the reason for the IDF remaining in a portion of Lebanon between 1985-2000!).

"Hizbullah would fire anti-aircraft shells at Israeli warplanes flying over Lebanon, and the shell pieces would fall into Israel sometimes killing 1 or 2.
"


Those must have been some huge ass AAA shells. I mean, the buffer zone was enough to restrict dedicated surface-to-surface rockets to a single target (located in the shortest distance between Lebanese controlled areas and Israel) at the very edge of its range, but not enough to keep stray AAA shells away...  Insane

"They signed an agreement in July 2000 to end flyovers over Lebanon"

Why would Israel sign anything with Lebanon??? I'm not doubting you, it's just that I'm very surprised to hear that. What did Israel get in return?

David b.:

"Remember that Hizbullah was created because Israel invaded in the first place"

So was Amal, the Islamic Jihad, PLO etc. right?

"You can tell from the contrail that it is a one engine plane..."

Yes, like a MiG-21, Su-20/22 for example.

"...(eg. F-16A)."

As opposed to the twin engined F-16B? j/k  Smile


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
BA
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:47 am

What the hell do you call firing artillery rockets ("Katyushas") at Kyriat Shmona?! The nature (accuracy) of the weapon means it can only be used against large targets such as a city, which has been done intentionally hundreds of times over the course of two decades (and was the reason for the IDF remaining in a portion of Lebanon between 1985-2000!).

Yes, they fired at IDF positions in Shmona after Israel resumed flyovers.

Those must have been some huge ass AAA shells. I mean, the buffer zone was enough to restrict dedicated surface-to-surface rockets to a single target (located in the shortest distance between Lebanese controlled areas and Israel) at the very edge of its range, but not enough to keep stray AAA shells away...

It's called shrapnel. A piece of shrapnel 1cm thick can kill you.

Why would Israel sign anything with Lebanon??? I'm not doubting you, it's just that I'm very surprised to hear that. What did Israel get in return?

It was a signing with the UN and Lebanon.

The UN would take control of the former occupied territories. Israel would stop flyovers in Lebanon. Hizbullah would stop attacking Israeli targets which is exactly what happened for that one month when Israel had not been operating flyovers.

So was Amal, the Islamic Jihad, PLO etc. right?

No, those groups were created for other reasons.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:50 am

This about all the Lebanese Army can do:



Drive around in armored personal carriers next to the border.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
todaReisinger
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:02 am

We trace our routes back thousands of years to the original Canaanites.


Oh really? GREAT!

There's no limit to imagination...or rather, to indoctrination...



* * * * * *


"Under Palestinian rule"


Until September 1993 there had NEVER been ANY kind of "Palestinian rule" anywhere on the surface of earth...



* * * * * *



But well, in the eyes of BA a female terrorist who kills entire families is a "patriot fighting the occupation". THAT's precisely the reason why any kind of peace is, at least for now, impossible.

Thank you BA for illustrating (against your will...) the real face of the problem...
I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
 
cfalk
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:05 am

So tell me, patriots that fight against occupation are terrorists?

If they intentionally blow up women and children in buses and restaurants, Yes.

Where the French that fought against the Germans terrorists because they were fighting for there land which was being taken over by the Nazis?

I'm no expert on the French Resistance, but as far as I know they targeted German military personel. There weren't many German civilians in France, and they did not go into Germany to find some.

I get it Charles, anytime Arabs attack Israel they are always terrorists. Yet ANYTIME Israel attacks Arabs, they are commandoes?

Same old moaning about double standards, and you still refuse to tell the difference.

You tell me. Which side intentionally targets women and children. Which side targets a legitimate target, who happens to hide behind women and children. Both are bad, but one is worse. It's the difference between killing because you are a soldier and you are in combat, or killing because you enjoy it.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
todaReisinger
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:08 am

Yes, they fired at IDF positions in Shmona


Sure...the shopping mall they bombed a few months ago was an IDF position...and the 16 year old teen who was killed in the middle of his town was an "occupation soldier"....right?


It's so easy to spread pure and simple lies again and again.....But the problem is: it's very EFFICIENT.
I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
 
LY744
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:09 am

"It's called shrapnel. A piece of shrapnel 1cm thick can kill you"

Dear BA, that piece of shrapnel first has to somehow get to Kiryat Shmona. Seeing as surface-to-surface artillery rockets were having trouble doing that due to range restrictions, it is hard to believe that a short range AAA shell could do that.

"Yes, they fired at IDF positions in Shmona after Israel resumed flyovers."

The only way you could hit small structures like that with a Katyusha is if you parked the launcher up against the fortification's wall. Next time you're in Lebanon, ask around for yourself. Once the Israeli buffer zone was gone, why would the Hizbullah keep going after Kyriat Shmona of all places? Now they can target a numerous amount of Israeli cities and villages (I mean military positions, right, right). Force of habit I guess.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
BA
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:10 am

Until September 1993 there had NEVER been ANY kind of "Palestinian rule" anywhere on the surface of earth...

You really don't know history, or just a twisted history.

But well, in the eyes of BA a female terrorist who kills entire families is a "patriot fighting the occupation". THAT's precisely the reason why any kind of peace is, at least for now, impossible.

Ummm..I'm not talking about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict here. I'm talking about Hizbullah.

I don't support suicide attacks against civilians anywhere in the world. In this thread, I'm discussing the case regarding Hizbullah which was created to fight against the Israeli occupation.

How did Israel leave south Lebanon? Because they felt like it? No, they were forced to by Hizbullah because they were starting to suffer many casualties.

Thank you BA for illustrating (against your will...) the real face of the problem...

Thank you Toda for bringing in another topic to this discussion. It shows your denial.

"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:14 am

Cfalk,

If they intentionally blow up women and children in buses and restaurants, Yes.

Hizbullah have never entered Israel! They are a Lebanese based group. They have never blown up buses or restaurants in Israel. They don't even use suicide tactics.

I'm no expert on the French Resistance, but as far as I know they targeted German military personel. There weren't many German civilians in France, and they did not go into Germany to find some.

You again ignore my point. Hizbullah has never targetted civilians and has only targetted Israeli military personal. Unfortunatly some Israeli civilians have been killed in crossfire, but were not intentionally targetted.

Same old moaning about double standards, and you still refuse to tell the difference.

You tell me. Which side intentionally targets women and children. Which side targets a legitimate target, who happens to hide behind women and children. Both are bad, but one is worse. It's the difference between killing because you are a soldier and you are in combat, or killing because you enjoy it.


Again you ignore the point, I'm debating about Hizbullah, a Lebanese-based group and not Hamas, a Palestinian based group.

Sure...the shopping mall they bombed a few months ago was an IDF position...and the 16 year old teen who was killed in the middle of his town was an "occupation soldier"....right?

No, that 16-year old boy was killed by anti-aircraft shrapnel when Hizbullah fired at Israeli jets that were entering Lebanese airspace. You should know that. You remember the post I made about this issue.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:18 am

Charles,

I'm not sure if you're trying to intenionally bring in Hamas into this topic to try to stir things up, or if you were just confused?

Please enlighten me. You should know I am talking about Lebanon here and not Palestine.

I don't support Hamas anymore than you do. But I do support Hizbullah because they removed the Israeli occupation from the south and have never targetted civilians.

Please enlighten me. Either you are confused, or you are intentionally bringing in Hamas into this discussion.

I am not talking about Hamas. Since you did bring in it though, I do not support Hamas nor have I ever did.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:23 am

Dear BA, that piece of shrapnel first has to somehow get to Kiryat Shmona. Seeing as surface-to-surface artillery rockets were having trouble doing that due to range restrictions, it is hard to believe that a short range AAA shell could do that.

The piece of shrapnel incident is not related with Kiryat Shmona. It has to do with the incident in another Israeli town near the Lebanese/Syrian border that happened a month ago.

Hizbullah last fired into Kiryat Shmona before Israel had pulled out of southern Lebanon.

They would always fire katyusha's from a Lebanse town called Tibneen, located very close to the border line of the occupied Lebanese lands.

They'd fire katyusha's against IDF forces and 3 or 4 times, they missed and went over the border and one hit Kiryat Shmona in 1997.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
tbar220
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:24 am

Hizbullah are not terrorists. Despite Israeli accusations, Hizbullah has never targetted civilians and since it's creation in 1982, there have been only 12 civilian casualties by Hizbullah. Not intentional, they just got caught in crossfire.

On July 18, 1994, Hizbullah terrorists carried out an attack against the Israeli-Argentine Mutual Association in Buenos Aires in Argentina, killing 100 and injuring nearly 200. The explosion caused the seven story building to collapse.

Two years earlier a Hizbullah attack destroyed the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires killing 29 people and injuring 242. The method of attack was a car bomb. Several residents from a nearby nursing home and children from a passing school bus were also killed. Sounds like terrorism to me.

On March 12, 2002, two hizbullah terrorists dressed as Israeli soldiers infiltrated Kibbutz Metzuba on the northern border of Israel and killed six people in their sleep in a shooting attack.

In the last two decades, Hizbullah has fired hundreds of Katyusha rockets at Israeli cities. These attacks are and were aimed at Israeli civilians. They were fired at Kibbutzim and cities like Kiryat Shmona. Hizbullah has also carried out dozens of mortar attacks and artillery attacks across the border aimed at Israeli cities.

Now do you care to explain your statement?



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BA
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:29 am

"Yes, they fired at IDF positions in Shmona after Israel resumed flyovers."

The only way you could hit small structures like that with a Katyusha is if you parked the launcher up against the fortification's wall. Next time you're in Lebanon, ask around for yourself. Once the Israeli buffer zone was gone, why would the Hizbullah keep going after Kyriat Shmona of all places? Now they can target a numerous amount of Israeli cities and villages (I mean military positions, right, right). Force of habit I guess.


Pardon me, I meant they fired at IDF positions in SHLOMI, not Shmona.

Shlomi is located near the Golan Heights in Syria between the Israeli, Syrian, and Lebanese borders close to the Shebaa farms. That is where the 16-year old boy was killed by anti-aircraft fire.

Shmona as you know is far south near the border with Lebanon which is controled by the UN.

Since Israel's retreat from the south, the UN is now running the show in the formerly occupied areas and Hizbullah has NO access to these areas because they are being run by the UN.

That's why all attacks against Israel have been against the Shebaa Farms.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
david b.
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:29 am

It's so easy to spread pure and simple lies again and again

The same can be said about yourself. Time and time over again.

Yes, like a MiG-21, Su-20/22 for example

IAF does not have Migs.
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Alessandro
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:34 am

Funny statement BA, yes, when IAF pulled out of the security zone in South Lebanon, the Palestinian groups promised not to attack Israel along the border, but the don´t recognize the Golan Heights (part of the border with Lebanon) as Israel and continued to attack the border there. So what should
IAF/IDF do, sit in a ring and sing "we shall overcome"?
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LY744
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:34 am

"They'd fire katyusha's against IDF forces and 3 or 4 times..."

Look, firing Katyushas at a military outpost is rather stupid. First, you're probably not going to hit it, second, even if you're lucky you won't do much damage, and third, you are more likely to get yourself killed than an IDF soldier.

"...they missed and went over the border and one hit Kiryat Shmona in 1997."

One? LOL, now there's a bombshell.  Insane

Anyways, there is a lot of criticism to be made of Israel's actions in Lebanon and Palestine without having to resort to all sorts of fantasies and manipulations of what once was the truth.


LY744.
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LY744
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:36 am

"IAF does not have Migs"

Syria sure does though.  Big grin


LY744.
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tbar220
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:43 am

BA,

Read my last post, and then explain to me your statement saying that Hizbullah has never attacked civilians.
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BA
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:51 am

On July 18, 1994, Hizbullah terrorists carried out an attack against the Israeli-Argentine Mutual Association in Buenos Aires in Argentina, killing 100 and injuring nearly 200. The explosion caused the seven story building to collapse.

Hizbullah has denied this. The US and Israel have accused Hizbullah for that attack but to this date, people aren't sure whether it was Hizbullah or another group. As of now, Hizbullah denies it and continues to deny it.

Two years earlier a Hizbullah attack destroyed the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires killing 29 people and injuring 242. The method of attack was a car bomb. Several residents from a nearby nursing home and children from a passing school bus were also killed. Sounds like terrorism to me.

Same story as above.

On March 12, 2002, two hizbullah terrorists dressed as Israeli soldiers infiltrated Kibbutz Metzuba on the northern border of Israel and killed six people in their sleep in a shooting attack.

Guess what? They were military targets. In that same attack, they also kidnapped 2 IDF soldiers.

In the last two decades, Hizbullah has fired hundreds of Katyusha rockets at Israeli cities. These attacks are and were aimed at Israeli civilians. They were fired at Kibbutzim and cities like Kiryat Shmona. Hizbullah has also carried out dozens of mortar attacks and artillery attacks across the border aimed at Israeli cities.

Yes, Hizbullah was extremely aggressive during the Israeli occupation of the south.

You claim they were aimed at Israeli civilians. However, that's not the case. They were aimed at IDF positions within the occupied Lebanese lands, however as the Katyusha's aren't accurate, they often ended up going over the Israeli border.

Check this old article from CNN from back in 1997:
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9708/08/mideast/

Go to the 2nd article called "Hezbollah-Israel truce unraveling?"

I'm going to have to call it a day. I have work to do.

I'll check this thread tommorow.

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NoUFO
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 9:16 am

No perpetrators but lots of victims on both sides. That's the problem.
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delta-flyer
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 9:35 am

Remember that Hizbullah was created because Israel invaded in the first place
I remember -- but I also remember why Israel invaded south Lebanon in the first place. Do you?

pete
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david b.
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 9:38 am

They invaded to get rid of the PLO but it backfired. Now they have an another group to deal with. If it wasn't for them Israel would never had left.
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david b.
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 9:45 am

Remember what the "butcher of Beirut did to thousands of people in Lebanon?

I remember-do you?
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tbar220
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RE: Israel Attacks Syria (Islamic Terror Camps)

Mon Oct 06, 2003 12:07 pm

BA,

It's easy for you to just deny facts by saying that "it hasn't been proven". Until then, I just showed you that Hizbullah targets civilians.

Your comment that the attack on the Kibbutz was a military target is disgusting. Do you know what a kibbutz is? It's a farm community, not a friggin military target. They snuck into the kibbutz, and killed six people while they were asleep in their beds. You dare call that an attack on a military target? Show some class BA.
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