saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

Ferdinand Drugs Test

Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:45 pm

Is the FA right to ban him? In my view they are correct, rules are rules after all, but as per usual the FA have cocked up by not banning him as soon as he missed the test.

It doesn't matter if it was a genuine mistake, the regulations are quite clear and there is the possibility that he could have done it deliberately. There are lots of examples in other sports where small mistakes, albeit unintentional, have resulterd in lengthy bans. Football should be no different.

However the biggest reason for banning him is that if he played for England and we beat the Turks then they will cry foul and demand that we do not qualify for Euro 04. It's not worth taking the risk.

Of course Man Ure are complaining but what's new there.....
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: Ferdinand Drugs Test

Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:51 pm

Missing a random druds test is a serious offence, the FA need to take some sort of action. Banning him would be too harsh as he isn't actually guilty of taking any dope, just that he was pre0ccupied doing something else. But what i don't understand the all the media hype about all this, he missed a drugs test, big deal let him retake one. The media circus around the whole "English football is in crisis" is so absurd that one journalist today asked the PRIME MINISTER what he thought about the recent 'scandals'.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Ferdinand Drugs Test

Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:59 pm

Firstly, Ferdinand was stupid. If you are a professional sportsman you simply can't forget to turn up for your drug test. It would be like one of us forgetting about their appraisal, or interview, or disciplinary. You just can't do it.

Secondly, having forgotten and then offering to come in probably is no use, because the testers will be off to do their next one. A retest 36 hours later is no use, if he had been taking drugs they would have dissipated, which is precisely why these test are random.

Thirdly, United could have, and should have, ensured that he was there.

Having failed to do all of this, the FA had a problem. Think about it, if Ferdinand played on Saturday and scored the winning goal, or made a match saving tackle or clearance, can you imagine what the Turkish reaction would be? They'd go nuts, complain to UEFA and the game would probably either be replayed, or even awarded to Turkey.

The FA had no choice at all - they HAD to withdraw him from the side.

Moving on to the England players reaction, it seems to me that they are trying to defend unprofessional behaviour by Ferdinand. They are not bigger than England, and they should just get on with it. End of story. If they boycotted the match (and they won't) then England will at the very least forfeit the match, and more likely will be ejected from Euro 2004. If that happens, how much public sympathy will they get? Not to mention all of their international careers are over. The FA should call their bluff.

Now, I do sympathise with Rio, he's just made a mistake. But it has to be remembered that it is a BIG mistake. Think about it, if a 100m runner did this, there'd be uproar, and they would get banned, regardless of whether or not it was an error. Ferdinand may well get away with less than that, and if he does, it will be because the FA acted quickly to defuse what would have been a huge international row had he played.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
David_itl
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Ferdinand Drugs Test

Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:38 pm


rules are rules after all

I'm glad you said that because the FA simply aren't following there own rules! Player confidentiality for one! I'm sorry to disillusion you all, but this "ban" is not justified ESPECIALLY after it's been revealed that a Man City player did what Ferdinand did last year. I've no idea who it is but all that happened to him was a £2000 fine. Not that I'm suggesting that they are picking on a more high profile player

Perhaps people can point out exactly what charges have been laid against him; it seems highly questionable that someone who has not been charged with anything isn't in the England squad yet we have three players who ARE up before the FA in the squad.

The "correct" way the FA should have approached this would have been to have let him be named in the squad but then on Saturday say that he had developed a 24-hour flu and is therefore unable to play.

David
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Ferdinand Drugs Test

Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:51 pm

Two wrongs don't make a right, David. Just because they did it wrong last time doesn't mean they should do it wrong again. As for why he's been pulled out, read my post above. England had no choice.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: Ferdinand Drugs Test

Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:52 pm

It's sad for him, but in my opinion he has to be punished. In order to maintain as clean sports as possible, we need random tests and the players have to comply with the rules. If they don't punish him, an actual cheater will just not attend to a doping test when he knows they could prove that he's taken something, and will just say afterwards "I was busy, Ferdinand wasn't punished, why do they punish me?!"
 
David_itl
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Ferdinand Drugs Test

Thu Oct 09, 2003 12:59 am



Banoc, I prefer my way outlined above of dealing with this whole incident. No names involved and less mess all round. Now the FA are having to retreat from their annoucement of rubbishing a possible player strike.


Racko, read my post about a Man City player WHO HAS ESCAPED A BAN for exactly the same offence....why should Ferdinand be treated differently? All that can be proved against him is that he missed the test.

Meanwhile the David Dein influence has shown itself again at the FA...Sol "let's kick Eric Djemba-Djemba" Campbell has received a paltry £20,000 fine. I'm so glad he was charged with violent conduct....we now know what kind of "punishment" will be handed out for the Arsenal 6: 100 lines of "I must not taunt an opponent".

David

 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Ferdinand Drugs Test

Thu Oct 09, 2003 1:01 am

It appears the situation is now that the England players are threatening to pull out of the match altogether unless Ferdinand is re-instated. This is more akin to the sort of things the Dutch teams get up really.

The FA have to be strong on this. Ferdinand is not coming back, that is certain. So go to them, find out who doesn't want to play, send them home and pick others who will. End of story. This behaviour is disgraceful.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Ferdinand Drugs Test

Thu Oct 09, 2003 1:28 am

Again David, two wrongs don't make a right. The City player should have gone through the same process.

As for your suggestion of the way to deal with it, it is implying that this is a minor issue that can be swept under the carpet. It isn't. If it happened to an Olympic athlete, they would have been banned. End of story.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23349
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Ferdinand Drugs Test

Thu Oct 09, 2003 1:43 am

Got a song for you England lot if yer players strike...

Nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah, hey hey hey, goodbye  Big thumbs up
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Ferdinand Drugs Test

Thu Oct 09, 2003 1:50 am

I trust you're having a good time, Kirkie?  Big grin
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23349
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Ferdinand Drugs Test

Thu Oct 09, 2003 2:07 am

Absolutly fantastic  Big thumbs up
Look for me in my Scotland strip at Manchester Airport on Friday  Big thumbs up
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
ryanb741
Posts: 5058
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:36 pm

RE: Ferdinand Drugs Test

Thu Oct 09, 2003 2:47 am

Actually i find the whole thing hilarious Big grin I hope we do get banned - it isn't like we are going to win the tournament anyway and it would add a little colour. Give it a couple of years and we will be like Columbia, shooting bad defenders, hitting referees and using fake blood to feign injury. In any case it's better than the usual 'Campbell to Butt, Butt to Campbell, Campbell back to James, James to Campbell, Campbell to Butt, Butt forward to Scholes, Scholes square to Beckham, Beckham long ball forward to Owen, Owen beaten in the air, goal kick' rubbish that we usually get.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

RE: Ferdinand Drugs Test

Thu Oct 09, 2003 3:50 pm

I don't see how they could have kept the anonimity. Questions were bound to be asked why Ferdinand was not picked for the squad. To suggest that he be picked and then not play is taking it a bit too far and there would have been just as much controversy when the real reason came out. Ferdinand messed up and deserves to be punished and slapping him with a fine is pointless when you earn as much as he does.

I see that the players have called off their boycott. Well big surprise there.
 
virgin744
Posts: 825
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 1999 5:51 pm

RE: Ferdinand Drugs Test

Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

Its amazing how the poor Turks get blamed for this!
I cant believe that you (saintsman & banco) can have the cheek to use the Turks as a reason for having to ban him!!! Shame on you.

You conveniently overlook the fact of the matter - Rio took the dope test later and passed, so what merit would the Turks have to get the game anulled or replayed. Stupid assed comments like that are childish and only make the relations between the UK & Turkey the way it already is-Crap!

YOU would like to use that as an excuse but I dont. Yes he is guilty according to Fifa rules, yes he should have taken the test on the day and not at a later time, and as thats the case he should be charged and punished according to those rules and for no other reason. Now, I also agree that the ban should come when it comes and IF that would be judged AFTER the Turkey match then fine, so beit. Using Turkey as a reason to ban him before the match is a kop-out and LAME!

This guy is guilty by omission, he should have taken the test when he was supposed to, so if he gets punished in a week or a year from now, its irrelevant, he will get punished for his crime in due course.

virgin744
 
saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

RE: Ferdinand Drugs Test

Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:22 pm

So he passed the test a few days later. How very convenient for him. Failure to take a test is the same as failing a test and there may well have been very good reasons for him to 'forget' (althought I hope not). If the boot was on the other foot and we found out that a Turkish player had played in similar circumstances do you think that we would keep quiet? I don't think that the headline in the Sun would be "Oops I forgot". It is not anti Turk sentiment at all.

Yes I know he will be punished, but you cannot punish a person to suit convenience otherwise all the players will be banned in the summer holidays or when they're injured. We might not like it but you have to set a standard but it would help if the FA weren't so useless.

On the anonimity front, I have just read on the BBC web site that it was Man U who released his name and not the FA. But as one of my light blue colleagues has pointed out, Man U are bigger than the FA.
 
virgin744
Posts: 825
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 1999 5:51 pm

RE: Ferdinand Drugs Test

Thu Oct 09, 2003 7:22 pm

Saintsman,
dont get me wrong, i am of the same opinion as you when it comes to the drugs issue here. He's guilty by omission, its as simple as that. But dont go assuming that the Turkish FA will cry foul IF he were to have played, scored a goal and England win the match! (fat chance that would have happened anyway )

Look at English issues without bringing innocent party's into it. He screwed up, Man Utd screwed up, and so did his manager/agent. If all these body's had made him stay and take the drugs test we'd be sat here arguing what could have been IF he hadnt been so stupid.

And, yes I do agree that the FA were stupid about the timing of this too BUT all this only surfaced a few days ago anyhow, so it was nobody's fault but his own.
And BTW, I think its a really stupid thing that he came out with that, "I've never taken drugs" statement, that might come back to haunt him some day........

virgin744
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Ferdinand Drugs Test

Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:09 am

Excuse me Virgin744, this has absolutely nothing to do with bashing the Turks and I am completely non-plussed that you took it that way. It isn't a question of who it is that England are playing, it is the fact that England are playing a game and would in effect be fielding an ineligible player. I couldn't give a stuff whether it is Turkey or a Martian eleven. So have a think about that before deciding to throw insults around based on your misplaced assumptions about my motives. I think an apology is in order for your statement.

Now, partly because of that, they decided not to select him. At that point Man Utd then released his name to the public, not the FA, because they said it would come out anyway. A curious logic that, reminiscent of the government's defence for releasing David Kelly's name. Therefore the whole issue of confidentiality comes down to them, not the FA. Now, had they kept quiet, it is possible that the FA could have got away with claiming he was injured and handled it after the game.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.

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