Alpha 1
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Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:34 pm

But God, this guy needs some help.

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20031022050909990002&_mpc=news%2e4

Rumsfeld Suggests New Agency for 'War of Ideas'



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Donald Rumsfeld

WASHINGTON (Oct. 24) - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in an interview published on Friday that the United States needs to sell its message more effectively and that a new agency would help fight a "war of ideas" against international terrorism.

"We are in a war of ideas, as well as a global war on terror. And the ideas are important and they need to be marshaled, and they need to be communicated in ways that are persuasive to the listeners," Rumsfeld said in a wide-ranging interview with The Washington Times.

"The overwhelming majority of the people of all religions don't believe in terrorism. They don't believe in running around killing innocent men, women and children. And we need more people standing up and saying that in the world, not just us," Rumsfeld was quoted as saying.

The Washington Times said Rumsfeld suggested a "21st-century information agency in the government" to help in the international battle of ideas and to limit the teaching of terrorism and extremism.

Commenting on a recent memo sent to his senior staff and disclosed by USA Today, Rumsfeld said the memo was intended to "inject a sense of urgency" into top military leadership.

Rumsfeld was cited as saying that his goal was to inspire troops and defense officials to consider what is lacking. He said he hopes they will start asking "Are there things we aren't doing that we might be doing?"

Rumsfeld also told the newspaper that he is under no pressure from the White House to fire a senior Pentagon official over controversial remarks about Islam.

Army Lt. Gen. William Boykin, an evangelical Christian, has painted the U.S. war on terrorism as a showdown with "Satan," saying Islamic radicals wanted to destroy America "because we're a Christian nation."

President Bush has distanced himself from Boykin's remarks saying the general "didn't reflect my opinion." Boykin is deputy undersecretary of defense for intelligence and war-fighting support.

At Boykin's request, the Defense Department's inspector general's office is examining the propriety of speeches he gave at churches and prayer breakfasts while in uniform.

Asked what would be necessary to justify any disciplinary action against Boykin, Rumsfeld told The Washington Times: "There's all kinds of rules and regulations and requirements. People will look at them and they'll discuss those and then one will compare his circumstance and those rules and regulations."
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Maybe we could call it the Ministry of Propoganda, eh Rummy?
 
cfalk
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:59 am

Maybe we could call it the Ministry of Propoganda, eh Rummy?

Have you ever heard of Public Relations, both in the corporate world and in government? Of course the more cynical will call that propaganda as well. I think what Rumsfeld is talking about is simply marshalling all the government spokesmen and PR guys and getting them to meet together on a regualr basis for "choir practice". i.e. agreeing on what to say and how to say it.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Sat Oct 25, 2003 10:30 am

Have you ever heard of Public Relations, both in the corporate world and in government?

We have Press Secretaries to do that, Charles, all over the Federal Government. We don't need another bureaucracy just to put out propaganda, seems to me, especially the kind Rummy wants put out.
 
cfalk
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:51 pm

We have Press Secretaries to do that, Charles, all over the Federal Government.

That's the point, Alpha. You have all these people talking to the press in a completely disorganized manner. In a private corporation, this would be (and always has been) completely unacceptable. Why should it be different for government?

If there was only a single source available to the press, we would more likely know who leaked that CIA agent's name.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with the proposal - you're right in one sense, that this would create a new self-perpetuating bureaucracy. But the concept does have a certain merit.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
pacificjourney
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:13 pm

The boss could be known as 'The Sultan of Spin'.
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:19 pm

Some of our resident ANET freaks could certainly be gainfully employed in Rummy's Ministry of Propaganda. After all posts by members like KROC, 757300 etc are just a like they are coming from Herr Goebbels himself! Rumsfeld would be very proud indeed!

-Roy
 
artsyman
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:32 pm

While I am not a Rummy fan, there is a very strong element of truth within it.

He is correct that it would go a long way to stop terrorism and other problems if more people of influence were more vocal against it. I'll give you an example:

The majority of muslims that speak out against the extra security screening at airports blame the US, and Blame good 'ole George for their sufference, but never do they go back to source and blame the 19 men that caused the reason for the security.

The US government may react badly in some instances with things like the TSA, but the truth is, there were reactionary measures to a brutal attack. Who is to blame for this extra security ?

Bush ? I think not, Atta...most likely
 
JetService
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:01 pm

I don't think Rumsfeld really gives enough info to declare if this is PR or propaganda. It almost sounds like he's thinking out loud rather than actually proposing something. Maybe he should've called it a 'committee' rather than an 'agency'. But Charles is right about the corporate world and I'm kind of surprised there isn't already a mechanism like this in the government.
"Shaddap you!"
 
cedarjet
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:13 am

This just shows how out of touch Rummy et al are with reality. Those 19 guys didn't fly planes into buildings and lose their own lives in the process cos the US isn't sold properly as a product overseas. It's cos of US bases in Saudi, propping up corrupt and oppressive regimes (Egypt, Saudi again, Pakistan), and of course encouraging Israel to possess WMDs while starving Iraq and Iran for identical pursuits; and of course encouraging Israel to occupy the West Bank and Gaza. Change these and he won't need a Ministry Of Propaganda. Don't address them and a Ministry Of Propaganda won't make a blind bit of difference, the terrorists will keep attacking and keep multiplying. It's not complicated.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
cancidas
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:20 pm

wow rummsfeld! simply genious! great way to waste more taxpayer money!  Pissed  Pissed  Pissed
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
777236ER
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Sun Oct 26, 2003 11:36 pm

This is doubleplusgood news.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
JetService
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Sun Oct 26, 2003 11:51 pm

You're getting your undies in a bind over nothing. I still think it was more of an off-the-cuff observation that will not amount to anything. Just relax until the remote possibility that it actually gets implemented happens. R-E-L-A-X.
"Shaddap you!"
 
airplay
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:05 am

Rummy is showing just how ignorant he is by associating terrorism with religion. Is he implying that persons who subscribe to Christianity aren't capable of terrorism? How about atheists?

I would suggest that ANYONE of ANY religion would lash out in ways that could be described as "terrorism" if they were as desperate as some groups feel these days. The Palestinians in Israel are a good example.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:05 am

I agree JetService, but one thing you can't go doing, when you work for the President of the United States, is to freelance remarks in front of reporters. That makes the President's job, already hard enough, doubly hard when idiots like Rumsfeld can't keep his mouth shut. Such statements, if they're to be made, should come from President Bush, if at all, not a subordinate.

Unfortunately, Rummy seems to have diarrhea of the mouth far to often.
 
JetService
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:12 am

I really can't argue with that Alpha 1. Thinking outloud isn't usually prudent at that level. Ironically, it almost makes his point more valid.
"Shaddap you!"
 
petertenthije
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:13 am

Hasn't FOX been doing enough to sell the governments views? Big grin
Attamottamotta!
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:25 am

I have to disagree with you, JetService, about making it more valid. What I find ironic is that this Republican Administration, that has already create two new bureaucracies in the last two years-Homeland Security and the TSA, now has someone championing the cause of creating yet another layer of bureaucracy.

Isn't that what Republicans always claim that Dems want to do-increase the size of the government? And here we have the GOP overseeing a huge expansion of bureaucracy and Federal authority over our lives. THAT'S what is deliciously ironic.  Smile
 
JetService
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:39 am

Yes, there is a degree of irony there; that's for sure. But after the attacks, all bets were off. I'm not saying everything's perfect, but they kind of have an excuse.
"Shaddap you!"
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:44 am

Maybe they were just looking for the excuse, JetService.  Smile
 
Guest

RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Mon Oct 27, 2003 5:17 am

Rummy is showing just how ignorant he is by associating terrorism with religion. Is he implying that persons who subscribe to Christianity aren't capable of terrorism? How about atheists?

I would suggest that ANYONE of ANY religion would lash out in ways that could be described as "terrorism" if they were as desperate as some groups feel these days. The Palestinians in Israel are a good example.


Nice to see you have your old name back.

The Palestinian/Israeli example you give is absolutely poor and slows little knowledge of the situation and terrorism in general. I can't think of one terrorist event that happened there that was not religiously motivated. Hamas, the Fatah Movement and just about every other Palestinian terrorist group are all Islamic based and are outstanding examples religious terrorism.

It's also interesting that Palestinian and most Arab Christians in general have absolutely no problem with Israel or Jews. If they have beefs with anyone, it’s the Muslims.

Hamas et all's goal is not to set up a Palestinian homeland, but to drive out the Jews and set up their own Islamic religious state between Jordan and Egypt. They make no attempt to hide this. The media and most “activists” just fail to latch on or are just too ignorant.

Today, most terrorism is religiously or ideologically rooted and has little to do with "desperation". You never hear about desperate and poor people of the favelas in Brazil or the slums of Chinese cities strapping themselves with bombs to blow up innocent people in crowded markets. They’re no less desperate that those Palestinians or Arabs.
 
airplay
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:57 am

The Palestinian/Israeli example you give is absolutely poor and slows little knowledge of the situation and terrorism in general. I can't think of one terrorist event that happened there that was not religiously motivated.

I disagree. When people act out, they tend to act out in a way that reflects thier culture. If religion plays a large part in their culture, then it will play a big part in their response to desperation.

If you play soccer with your church group does that define religiously motivated sports? I didn't think so.

As far as the poor people of the favelas, if you don't think they respond to desperation in quite violent ways, I suggest you inform yourself.

It's also interesting that Palestinian and most Arab Christians in general have absolutely no problem with Israel or Jews. If they have beefs with anyone, it’s the Muslims.

Great generalization....not very constructive or accurate. You're implying that Christians aren't as prone to terrorism as Muslims. You should visit Northern Ireland sometime....
 
Superfly
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:20 am

Sounds more like 'big government' to me.  Confused
Bring back the Concorde
 
N766UA
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:37 am

wow rummsfeld! simply genious! great way to waste more taxpayer money!

Why do you care? You aren't losing a cent!
This Website Censors Me
 
MD-90
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:04 am

The LAST thing we need is another government agency to waste taxpayers money.

Obviously, Alpha 1, the GOP is NOT living up to what should be a fiscally conservative administration. Sometmes there's hardly a difference between the Demipulicans and the Repocrats.
 
Guest

RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:49 am

Airplay, the next time you respond, I ask that you read what I wrote more carefully. If you’re incapable of this, don’t bother to reply. You have a tendency to put words into people’s mouths. Not once did I make a “generalization” that only Muslims are capable of religious terrorism. The Northern Ireland (ever been there?) example you give proves this. I merely pointed out an interesting fact that Christian Arabs have no qualms with Jews or Israel. I don’t see how you could have thought otherwise from what I wrote. Also, are they not part of Arab or Palestinian culture?

Speaking of “generalizations”, careful with the accusations you throw at others.

As for favelas, my girlfriend is from Brazil (again, have you ever been there?). I know damn well how violent it is there (and again, please point out where I said otherwise), but it is not terrorism. You “generalized” that desperation causes terrorism. Well, favelas in Sao Paulo are full of very desperate and destitute people, but they do not commit terrorism. Drug-related murders? Sure! Sampa has over 11,000 of them each year, but it is not terrorism.

I still believe that the vast majority of terrorism today is ideologically or religiously (a form of ideology) driven. It doesn’t matter what part of the world it is, there is some form of ideology driving these groups – from the communists in Latin America to the Islamic radicals in Southeast Asia, Northern Africa and the Middle-East to the Catholics in Northern Ireland (since “politically correct” ilk like you, Airplay, must be “all-inclusive”).





[Edited 2003-10-28 00:16:10]
 
airplay
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:59 am

Airplay, the next time you respond, I ask that you read what I wrote more carefully.

Good advise. Perhaps if you heeded your own words you might not have posted.

I'm not going to bother trading insults with you Cappin. Funny how you zeroed in on MY comments tho...

Feel better?



[Edited 2003-10-28 01:02:00]
 
Guest

RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:05 am

Yet more self-aggrandizing, hypocritical and paranoid ramble. You really think you’re worthy of being “zeroed in” on? C’mon, what makes you think you’re so special anyways?

I’m glad you think I gave good advice. Let’s see if YOU heed it now.

Airplay, some more advice. Start acting a bit more mature with the way you handle yourself on this forum. I would have thought raising kids would have brought that on you, but apparently it has not.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:22 pm

It seems more and more like Rummy could be on his way out. He's done nothing but to infuriate and to rub people the wrong way since day 1, and now he's on the ropes, apparently.

It's very possible that Rummy is losing favor because he was one of the strongest advocates of a war in Iraq, a war with no end in sight, and a war that's doing political damage.

Hopefully, this blowhard is on his last leg, and maybe Bush can do something right and hire a SecDef that's worthy of the job, and one who isn't a political ideologue like Rummy, Ashcroft and Wolfwitz. Sadly, I don't think that will happen. We'll get someone just as bad as Rummy has been.
 
airplay
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:09 pm

CaptainStabbin,

Try to get a different hobby. This flamebaiting thing is getting old...
 
N863DA
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RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:13 am

777236ER said it best; doubleplusgood.

Maybe we could call it the Ministry of Truth, and then shorten it, to Minitru, for short?

This will prevent potential unpersons from committing crimethink.

As 777236ER said once again - doubleplusgood news!

N 8 6 3 D A
 
Guest

RE: Rummy Wants "New Agency"

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:24 am

And look who's talking about flaimbait?You wrote the book! If you have a problem with the way I respond to you, you are more than welcome to discuss it with me privately. Until then, please cease with the complaints.

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