Delta777-XXX
Topic Author
Posts: 940
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2000 3:50 am

Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:36 am

(CNN) -- Massachusetts' highest court ruled Tuesday that the state cannot deny gays and lesbians the right to marry.

But the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court stopped short of allowing marriage licenses to be issued to the couples who challenged the law, and gave the state Legislature 180 days to find a solution, The Associated Press reported.

In the United States, Vermont is the only state to allow same-sex couples the rights and benefits of marriage. Vermont calls them civil unions, rather than marriages.

California's State Assembly has passed a domestic partnership law to provide similar benefits, but it stops short of allowing gays to marry.

In its ruling, the Massachusetts court said the state "failed to identify any constitutionally adequate reason for denying civil marriage to same-sex couples."

Arguments in the case were heard March 4. Under its internal guidelines, the court usually tries to issue decisions within 130 days of hearing such arguments, but the decision went past the anticipated summer deadline.

The case was filed by seven same-sex couples who were denied marriage licenses and has attracted national attention, with advocates on both sides predicting that the Massachusetts court could become the first in the nation to legalize gay marriage.

"We're talking about people who don't have equality under the law and should have it, because all citizens in this state are born free and equal," Mary Bonauto, an attorney for the plaintiffs who also works for the Boston-based Gay and Lesbian Advocates and Defenders, said last summer.

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that anti-sodomy laws are unconstitutional, and last June 10, an appeals court in the Canadian province of Ontario struck down a ban on same-sex marriage.


More here...
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/11/18/samesex.marriage.ruling/index.html


Oh man, It's about time!

Hank  Big thumbs up
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:50 am

I was wondering when this case was going to come down. Living in Boston I'm constantly hearing about it so it's good to have some resolution even if the whole legalization of marriage is still in the air.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:53 am

What does gay marriage have to do with sodomy?

 Smile
 
GC
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:03 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitution

Wed Nov 19, 2003 3:15 am

In that case I want equal rights for me and this tomato that I chose to be my life partner.  Big grin

Wouln't want any double standards or bias would we?
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 3:57 am

Gc,

The Dictionary defines "tomato" as:

to·ma·to
n. pl. to·ma·toes

1)
a) A widely cultivated South American plant (Lycopersicon esculentum)
having edible, fleshy, usually red fruit.
b) The fruit of this plant.

2) Slang. A woman regarded as attractive.



If you're talking defintion 2, I'm with you! But if you are talking definition 1, I may have some objections. After all are you at least the same colour?

 Smile
 
csavel
Posts: 1270
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitution

Wed Nov 19, 2003 4:20 am

As long as the tomato consents and is an adult tomato, go for it. In an ideal world, you, or any other consenting adult of sound mind, wouldn't have to ask the nanny government for permission to marry. Which is why conservatives should be as pro gay-marriage as liberals, IMHO. It's kicking mommy government out of people's lives.

I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 4:50 am

While this is apparently the [legislative] thing to do... I always feared the day this would be decided.


Now, what's to stop Cleatus and his sister from breeding the American "Hapsburgs"?  Sad
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 5:27 am

Mirrodie- Since we can't go to Boston, where should we go?
Singed,
KROC
Go big or go home
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 5:33 am

If the Mass. Legislature chooses to do so, they can override this decision by amending the state constitution. When Hawaii's activist court tried to pull the same garbage, the people forced a referendum and changed the state's constitution.

Sooner or later the public is going to force Congress to pass a Constitutional Amendment that defines marriage as between 1 man and 1 women. It is already in the House and every poll shows between 65% and 75% support for it throughout the country.

People don't seem to realize that this has nothing to do with equal rights but it about a miniscule minority (1%-2% of the population) trying to force its views and ideologies upon the majority.

Now homosexuals will go into churches that do not accept such behavior and demand that the church "marry" them. When the church refuses, they'll be sued for "discrimination" and "hate crimes".

Mark my words, next will come the demand for "marriage" between multiple partners, then family members, and it wouldn't be a far reach for to even consider "marriage" between people and animals. I mean, after all, why not? They're a "minority" too. Also, don't forget the repeal of any law governing the age of consent. That's next on the agenda and is already being pushed thanks to the E.U. Court's ruling in Lawrence v. Texas.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 5:47 am

B757300 - You should stop spreading your hate and homophobic bullshit around. If you want to marry a woman - fine with me. If you want to marry a man - I have no problems either. WHY can't you have the same view? Who cares about 85% majority? It all comes down to what's a right thing to do.

Think back to slavery. I am sure that it was supported by 75 to 85% of the slave owners back then too. There you have it. You want to live in a country that is ruled by religion and prejudice - go to Iran. They'll like you there.

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
SSTjumbo
Posts: 2579
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 3:29 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 5:47 am

From a religious standpoint I remain against any marriage not male-female, but from a legal standpoint I am glad they finally legalized gay marriages. Afterall, I may not agree with it, but it's not my job to decide for other people what's right for them. Just more of that theology cr@p  Laugh out loud.
I don't know, so this is my signature.
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: B757300

Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:24 am

>>Mark my words, next will come the demand for "marriage" between multiple partners, then family members, and it wouldn't be a far reach for to even consider "marriage" between people and animals. I mean, after all, why not? They're a "minority" too. Also, don't forget the repeal of any law governing the age of consent. That's next on the agenda and is already being pushed thanks to the E.U. Court's ruling in Lawrence v. Texas.<<


I will mark your words as completely illogical, as is your post and stance on this issue.

We now have at least 3 (that I can remember) state supreme courts that have ruled that their state's constitution does not ban the recognition of a marriage contract between two consenting non-related adults of the same sex. And for that conclusion, they are labeled "activist"???? So, I guess when any supreme judicial body in the U.S. is presented this issue, researches their constitution, and concludes that their state constitution as written does not discriminate based on the sex of the parties to a marriage contract, they are automatically "activist", rather than the possibility that they may actually know a thing or two about the supreme law of their state and it may indeed be a fact that their state constitution does not prevent same-sex marriages.

A stance that says allowing same-sex marriages means that multiple-partner marriages or incestuous marriages must be allowed is based out of irrational fear rather than logic .

The reality and bottom line is there is absolutely no rational reason why two consenting adults of the same sex should not be allowed the same legal rights as two consenting adults of the opposite sex who enter into a marriage contract. In fact, what other legal contract dictates that only people of the opposite sex can enter into it?? If we're going to extend logic here based on the argument that only 2 people of the opposite sex can enter a marriage contract, then perhaps we should say that only 2 people of the opposite race can enter into said contract... or that only 2 people of the opposite sex can enter into a leasing contract, etc.

Marriage in the legal sense is a contract between two people. That is all this issue is about... equal treatment under the law. The general public is all flipped out over semantics here, and do not understand that the legal framework of marriage is different than being married in the eyes of a religious organization... and if gays try to be married in a church, that is an issue between them and the church, and regardless of your "words" B757300, there would be no legal standing there should a same-sex couple want to sue a church. Can't happen under the U.S. constitution. But under our constitution as written, same-sex couples should be treated equally in the eyes of the law, regardless of what proportion of the population they represent. Injustice to one person is injustice to everyone.

And finally, whether you want to believe it or not, if I were married to my partner, it would have ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT ON YOUR LIFE WHATSOEVER. And that's what really angers me about all this.... the tyranny of the majority. Those that enjoy the legal rights associated with a marriage contract have the ability to deny those rights to a group of people who should be allowed to also enter into such a contract.. and yet they call themselves "Americans". I intellectually know that people fear what they don't understand, but sometimes the irrationality of it is really difficult to take.

Mark MY words though.... just as the struggle for civil rights took decades, and racial minorities still struggle with inequality today, so too will this fight continue.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
seb146
Posts: 14049
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:28 am

If I remember my Old Testament, didn't Moses, Noah, and many of the Christian believers have multiple wives? So, the question stands: How do you make the leap from a consentual partnership between two people to a consentual partnership between multiple people if one had been supported by yor religion at one point? If you want to support a few Old Testament standards, why not support them all?

More to the point, why can the government allow gays to get the same piece of papaer straits can? That has nothing to do with the church. That has only to do with government. Also, the government can nip the other stuff in the bud right now by passing a law saying a partnership like this is only between two people and only within our own spiecies.

But, anyway, people keep forgetting the whole inscest/animal/polygamy points will never gain wide spread support in this country. Mainly because those things have NOTHING TO DO WITH LOVE BETWEEN TWO PEOPLE!!!!!!

GO CANUCKS!!
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:30 am

Afterall, I may not agree with it, but it's not my job to decide for other people what's right for them.

Wisest words said in this thread relating to the topic.

Sadly, inequality of homosexuals is the last accepted form of discrimination in our country.
NO URLS in signature
 
GC
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:03 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitution

Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:38 am

"If I remember my Old Testament, didn't Moses, Noah, and many of the Christian believers have multiple wives?"

I think you'll find that Christians didn't happen until the first century AD in Antioch, these Old Testament types were Jews (as was Jesus and the apostles).

Aside from that I don't want this to turn into a "Christians are Homophobic" argument because a lot of us aren't even if we don't agree that same sex marriage should have the same status as heterosexual union (which is the spiritual definition of marriage). It doesn't come down to hating people, discrimination or whatever, the bible says that when we have sex it forms a spiritual union (we become one flesh) so common sense dictates be careful who you join with . As Christians (and Jews & Muslims) we believe that God's design was that man and woman are two parts that are made into one union and anything else is a lesser thing. We are entitled to hold that belief without being screamed at as homophobic, bigoted or, God forbid, conservative! I, as a Christian,don't think I'm any better than anyone, gay, straight, Martian, armadillo, whatever. And I deplore any kind of hatred towards the gay community. I just have my views and I hold them strongly, they make a lot of sense to me. But I am concerned that in the pursuit of justice for gay people (which is of course their right), Christians like me are being persecuted for holding a view which should be as valid as anyone elses but isn't very fashionable.

I know that the church should be there more for the gay community, and certainly in my church , anyone is welcome, but we can't be compromised on what we believe God wants for mankind. So, if you want tolerance, we'd like some too. And if you want us to be there for you, we need to learn how, on both sides!



 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:53 am

"But I am concerned that in the pursuit of justice for gay people (which is of course their right), Christians like me are being persecuted for holding a view which should be as valid as anyone elses but isn't very fashionable."

You're being "persecuted??????"

Pray tell... how?

Your views are quite valid. In the United States, a formal separation of Church and State would not require any religious institution to formally recognize a civil marriage.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:00 am

Mark my words, next will come the demand for "marriage" between multiple partners, then family members, and it wouldn't be a far reach for to even consider "marriage" between people and animals. I mean, after all, why not? They're a "minority" too.

As I expressed in post #6, I have to agree.





a miniscule minority (1%-2% of the population

Sorry bub, but unless you're secretly using Cerebro down at the Xavier School.... I'm gonna have to call your bluff: it is not possible to accurately determine (i.e., not postulate!) the number of homosexuals in the nationwide populace.




You say 1-2%, Kinsey Institute says 9-11%, CDC says 8%... yet none of you know the real answer anyways.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
GC
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:03 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitution

Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:28 am

"You're being "persecuted??????"
"

Do you know how it feels to be shouted down and called a bigot when you are not? The easy viewpoint in any conversation with a cross section of people such as this forum is to go with the majority, if you don't you get labelled.

Aside from that we have the situation, such as in the US where the Christian heritage is stripped away without much of a fight and here in the UK the Red Cross has banned Christian imagery at Christmas, in case other faiths are offended. (The head of the UK Muslims, said that he too thought this was ridiculous)

I'm getting off the topic, but basically, if we disagree with the pro-gay point of view we get jumped on before we get a chance to have a reasonable discussion about it.

"Your views are quite valid. In the United States, a formal separation of Church and State would not require any religious institution to formally recognize a civil marriage. "

I think the problem here is the use of the term marriage (because of the definition I said earlier), to me it's like saying Boeing A330 or Airbus 747, it's forcing a different definition of a term (which in the case of marriage fundamentally effects society) to suit a social change in attitudes.
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitution

Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:42 am

Maybe it's time we re-evaluated the state of marriage. After all, how viable an institution is matrimony if it needs a special "Defense of Marriage Act" to protect it?

So gays and lesbians get married. More power to them. If you're deeply devout and it offends your relgion, at least you can still be smug in the knowledge that they'll go to hell.

Standing against gay marriage as a principle (we're not going to let this small minority dictate to us, the majority), is petulant and inflammatory. Somehow, I doubt committed gay partners are going to start demanding marriage between multiple partners and family members.

I can understand that many traditionally-minded people are frightened by the way gays approach sex and love- I think the wildly promiscuous gay pride parades do much to foster within middle America the image of gays as rabid sexual demons and therefore hamper any possible meeting of the minds. However, two people who want to commit their lives to each other deserve the dignity of societal sanction.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:56 am

"I'm getting off the topic, but basically, if we disagree with the pro-gay point of view we get jumped on before we get a chance to have a reasonable discussion about it."

Well, I just witnessed six separate news programs where two opposing points of view were presented and no one was jumped on.

I think that the problem is that the public face of opponents of gay marriage is often synonymous with the public face of far right opponents of all gay rights. Those who make the loudest public pronouncements against gay marriage are often those who have made a career out of gay bashing. Thus, the voices of people who are not to the extreme right on the ideological spectrum is often never heard.

"it's forcing a different definition of a term (which in the case of marriage fundamentally effects society) to suit a social change in attitudes."

Well, in those fascinating biblical days of yore, men married numerous women at the same time and wives were essentially property. But social attitudes changed, like they always have. Marriage as we see it today is a relatively new concept in human history that has evolved over time.

"Mark my words, next will come the demand for "marriage" between multiple partners, then family members, and it wouldn't be a far reach for to even consider "marriage" between people and animals. I mean, after all, why not? They're a "minority" too."

Tut tut. Marriage, like many social institutions is subject to public policy, human rights arguments, constitutional arguments. Animals are not a cognizable human "minority" subject to rights and privileges. Civil and social institutions were not created for cattle. They were created for complex human civilizations. Arguments like yours do not pass the laugh test. Sorry. Also, there is a very strong scientific argument against marriage between family members. Such arguments used to be based in evidentiary procreative mishaps that resulted from such arrangements. However, today's scientists have human genetics and psychotherapy to back them up as well. Furthermore, the child-parent relationship is not one based on equality that lends itself to the institution of modern marriage.

The classic argument against equating gay marriage with multiple partner or family member marriage is that as a heterosexual, the institution of marriage is not denied to you as it is to homosexuals. Any hypothesized mulitple partner or family member marriages would be denied equally to both gay and straight people and so it is a moot point. I find it a bit strange when folks on both sides of the divide talk about "families" as being the issue. The issue here is the right of the individual; not the right of traditional versus alternative families.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:30 am

"Following the MA ruling George Bush issued a statement saying: "Marriage is a sacred institution between a man and a woman."

Perhaps, the man never heard of city hall.

And, perhaps, he is blissfully ignorant of that not-so-sacred institution of divorce. An institution that the Queen Mum of the GOP, Ronald Reagan, indulged in with a great appetite.

I try and give this President the benefit of the doubt, but he is unrelenting. The man is truly a blithering idiot.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 12:20 pm

As a straight person, I'm fully in support of gay marriage. I fail to see why any straights are threatened by it.

Ironically, allowing gay marriages will add more stability and conservatism to gay couples since it will draw them to the social mainstream.....and yet it is the opposition to gay marriages that will only serve to radicalize alot of otherwise very conservative gays. Conservatives will only bolster their numbers by welcoming gay marriage.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 12:46 pm

Maybe its all a plot by the lawyers so they can have more divorce cases to work on seeing how most homosexual "unions" rarely last very long and being called "married" isn't going to change that.

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2003/jul/03071405.html
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8557
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:01 pm

What a load of hogwash 753. Looked at the *heterosexual* divorce rate lately? Really, your grasp of reality (or lack thereof) is incredibly amusing at times.

As a social libertarian, I applaud today's decision in MA.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:14 pm

Sooner or later the public is going to force Congress to pass a Constitutional Amendment that defines marriage as between 1 man and 1 women.

What a waste of time, money and resources. The amendment process, at least at the beginning, was a way for people to protct themselves from government. Now, we have a party-the GOP-that ostensibly like to have government out of people's lives, proposing amendments to 1. "Protect" the flag from being burned as a legit means of protest; 2. "Protect" the word God in the Pledge, and 3. "Protect" marriage from gays.

So much for unobstrusive government. B75300, why do you care if gays want to get married? Seriously? Do they not also have the right to be happy? Or is that only reserved for straights?

And maybe conservatives should be more alarmed at the high divorce rate among traditional couples; the rate of abuse, sexual and physical. Maybe THAT would do more to protect the sanctity of marriage than some paranoid quest aginst homosexuals.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:06 pm

Its amusing to see Pete Labarbera out there spewing the "results" of his so-called research about homosexual promiscuity. The man is a sad freak who used to cruise the gay bars in DC until just a few years ago and go into a psychotic tirade as to how he once dated Christopher Reeve (pre-Superman days) whenever anyone (or everyone) told him to buzz off and leave them alone. I guess Beverly LaHaye of the Concerned Women of America doesn't care if a very tired, bitter hag competes with her for attention in her very own organization!
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
seb146
Posts: 14049
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:45 pm

If I had been more awake in my previous post, I would have also added this:

A couple can visit an attorney to have a paper drawn up stating that in the event something should happen to one person, the other has power over the estate. Isn't this what the politicals are trying to prevent and state is marriage? Each church should have their own laws governing who can and cannot get married. But, if two consenting adults want to go to a lawyer and have a that piece of paper on file, it can be done.

To the religious people: I know most of you support unions between two consenting adults despite gender. But, as with most groups, there are those few that just can't help forcing their point into everyone else's face. Gays have them, heteros have them, Jews have them, Christians, whites.... and to them I say: just take a breath and open your mind.

GO CANUCKS!!
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
sevenair
Posts: 1496
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Gays

Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:53 pm

Well, i find that really disappointing. I am gay, so I think I have a right to express my point of view on this. I do not see what sex has to do with marriage. Marriage should be about love, honour and devotion, and does not matter which end u take it up. I am gay, and have never soddomosed or been sodomised. I also think that the church is disgusting to allow anti-gay teaching to go on.

PS-i am not at all bothered if I have any spelling mistakes-so don't point them out
 
kingsford
Posts: 403
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:26 pm

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:53 pm

I think same sex marriage is just a small step compared to the logical next step which is the parental issue : Should homosexual couples be able to adopt children and under what circumstances ? Should child care be denied to a gay parent ?

These are more difficult questions to answer than simply arguing if homosexual couples should be at last be recognized.

On another note my country allows me to get married to another man. But since my partner is from a country that isn't that evolved yet on the matter, it is still a 'Dream on' situation. Massachusett is only a small step forward. But definitely in the right direction.

On a last note people like B753 are the new humorists of this century : Their ridicule is irresistible...




 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:36 pm

B757300... how long have you been with your girlfriend/partner/wife/whatever?

I've been with my partner for 6.5 years.
Our friends Rob and Mark have been together 15 years.
Our friends Ray and Brad have been together 20 years.
Our friends Darrell and Brent have been together 17 years.
Our friends Dennis and Robert have been together 16 years.
Our friends Bill and Karl have been together 6 years.
Our friends David and Lane have been together god knows how long.

My best friend and his wife were divorced after 3 years.
My friend Greg and his wife were divorced after 3 or 4 years.
My cousin Michelle has been married and divorced 3 times.
My cousin Lisa was divorced after 5 years.
My cousins Matt, Mark, Mike, and Galen have all been divorced.



If you choose to stay in your cave and cling to your unfounded inaccurate stereotypes, then you're fair game for ridicule. I don't pretend to know what you're afraid of, but I think I might have a pretty good idea...
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
zak
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:50 pm

doesnt the usa have that very vague "pursuit of happyness" in their constitution?
if so isnt the love between consenting same sex couples also a pursuit of their happyness? and if that is the case wouldnt the suggestions by the gop be unconstitutional? but i think thats what gop does these days as right wing christian jihad party. "there ought to be limits to freedom" *cough*
10=2
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4797
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:22 pm

B757300,

You're really funny when you're talking out of your homophobic ass, you know that?

Mark my words, next will come the demand for "marriage" between multiple partners, then family members, and it wouldn't be a far reach for to even consider "marriage" between people and animals. I mean, after all, why not? They're a "minority" too.

I live in a country where marriages between gay people are 100% legal. And let me tell you this: NONE of the things you mention above have been proposed in my country, and not a single person or organisation has, AFAIK, asked for this. Your above comment is a kneejerk reaction made out of pure hatred of homosexuals.
 
kingsford
Posts: 403
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:26 pm

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:57 pm

Yeah !  Smokin cool

May all gay people come to Belgium and have a big wedding party !
 
sevenair
Posts: 1496
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Gay Marriage

Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:22 am

Ive been with my partner for 20months, not very long, but then again ive just turned 19. If B757300 made a racist comment, then he would proably be thrown of a.net, but because this is homophobia (the acceptable form of discrimination), he will be allowed to spread his homophobic words
 
kingsford
Posts: 403
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:26 pm

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:46 am

I have been with my partner for three years and have signed for an additional 37 !  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

 
GC
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:03 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitution

Thu Nov 20, 2003 1:03 am

"And maybe conservatives should be more alarmed at the high divorce rate among traditional couples; the rate of abuse, sexual and physical. Maybe THAT would do more to protect the sanctity of marriage than some paranoid quest against homosexuals."

I think you are dead right, many heterosexuals tend to take marriage too lightly. Although I made my beliefs on same sex marriage clear earlier on, I concur that we who preach the sanctity of marriage need to lead by example, the stats don't help our argument.
 
csavel
Posts: 1270
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitution

Thu Nov 20, 2003 1:16 am

A lot of smart comments her, so not much to add, but I am curious as to why social conservatives love the government so much when it comes to issues like this.

B757300 I will defend to the death your right not to have another ideology forced on you, thus you do not have to marry another man if you don't want to. I'll be right there on the barricades with you on that. Hell, you can shout to the rooftops how all gay people are going straight to hell for all I care. But since two men or two women marrying in no way whatsoever affects you, why do you, as a conservative, want the government to step in? This is quite common amongst social conservatives that is why social libertarians like Aaron747 (and me) are perplexed. Ayn Rand is probably turning over in her grave.
I mean no disrespect, but I'm really curious.

I'm straight, but my gay friends and relatives - some of whom are married, even if the gov't doesn't think so - just want to be free to set up a household and have a life together. Why shouldn't they?

Again, if you really want government out of your lives, then government shouldn't tell you whom you can and can't marry.

(PS, as long as it is consenting adults and 8all* partners agree, I really don't care about polygamy either, but that's just me.)

(PPS, incest and bestiality, since there are no adults who can consent, is still off limits, since one of the partners hasn't and indeed, cannot agree to it.)

I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
funflyer
Posts: 817
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 4:53 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Thu Nov 20, 2003 11:20 am

Marrige should be between a man and a woman.
Who cares about status?
 
sevenair
Posts: 1496
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:08 pm

Says who funflyer? Marriage should be based on love. Im not saying anything about children involved, the main reason the religions are against it is because of the lack of children produced. SO what if a woman has ovarian cancer, and can reproduce? should the man be free to divorce her? or should he have been banned from marrying her to begin?
 
windshear
Posts: 2261
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Thu Nov 20, 2003 8:35 pm

America this is the only thing that keeps you from the middle ages!!!

This is the only process, people need to be free, right Bush???

For me descriminate by race, religion or sexual orientation is racism, that's why you need to show that you have come a long way...

We have been able to marry since the late 80's here, so shut up and smell the future...

Boaz...
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
sevenair
Posts: 1496
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:52 pm

I do agree, bush goes on about the 'land of the free', 'free world', 'free nations' and on and on and on and on and on with words to that affect. If people are not allowed to legally share their devotion to eachother, then that is not a 'free world', thats more like Nazi Germany.
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Thu Nov 20, 2003 11:38 pm

Windshear...

I am glad you confirmed what I have been thinking: Denmark also allows same-sex marriage. In fact, I always thought it was the first country to allow same-sex marriage, but in the press, it is reported only the Netherlands and Belgium allow it.

I know Germany now allows gay civil-unions.
Won't eventually all EU countries be required to recognize same-sex marriage?
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
kingsford
Posts: 403
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:26 pm

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Thu Nov 20, 2003 11:40 pm

Sweden and Australia too no ?
 
Guest

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Fri Nov 21, 2003 4:26 am

Ok I hate to go all liberal on you but can someone show me a few things.

Where does the Constitution of the United States (aka supreme law of the land) show a link to the Bible? Yes God is mentioned but I do not see some book that has been translated so many times throughout history its real meaning is cloudy cited anywhere (The Bible). With this thrown out its ort of shoots the ultra right wing argument against same sex marriage in the boo-tay.

Excluding Biblical crap and some genius quoting scripture he/she interpreted to mean what they thought it should does anyone have a reason same sex marriage should not happen?

Where does making an opening specifically for TWO HUMANS (no gender specified) open the door to polygamy, bestiality, etc?

Does anyone think there is a real reason to keep anti-sodomy laws on the books? (Other than another thing to give Michael Jackson jail time for?)
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8557
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Fri Nov 21, 2003 6:26 am

Hell no - going anal is great. I highly recommend getting with a girl who will take it...
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Fri Nov 21, 2003 6:42 am

Aaron747...

I know a girl who loves it. She's my friend who lives in LA, and I can give you her number if you want (her psuedo boyfriend, aka the guy she gets together with to f*ck, loves it too).  Big grin
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8557
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Fri Nov 21, 2003 6:51 am

Thanks for the hookup, I'm happy with my girl as is.  Big grin
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Chi-town
Posts: 893
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 1:29 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Fri Nov 21, 2003 10:38 am

I don't give a crap what the US Constitution says. From my religous stand point, being a gay or lesbian is a sin. Therefore gay and lesbian marriages are a sin. I am 150% against them.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8557
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Fri Nov 21, 2003 11:19 am

And I don't care what the good book says. From my standpoint, being gay or lesbian is just as legitimate as the flipside. Nobody should have to run away from what they're naturally attracted to. And no law should tell anybody whom they can/cannot love.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
syncmaster
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:55 am

RE: Court Rules Ban On Gay Marriage Unconstitutional

Fri Nov 21, 2003 11:19 am

Chi-Town: That's fine if you want to think that way, and if that's what YOUR Religion considers it a Sin. But that's you and your life, why are you trying to tell other people what to do with theirs?

If a homosexual couple wants to get married how exactly does it hurt you and all the other people who think it should be between a man and woman?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], MaverickM11 and 15 guests