apathoid
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That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:04 am

...compared to Reagan anyway!!! I wonder why Peter Jennings isn't reporting this news??? (I don't really wonder...that was sarcastic...)



http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=71000001&refer=home&sid=aXuXEm5y10Uo


U.S. 3rd-Qtr GDP Grew at 8.2% Rate, Fastest Since '84 (Update2)
Nov. 25 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. economy grew at an 8.2 percent annual rate in the third quarter, faster than the government initially estimated as companies boosted inventories in September to meet the surge in demand.

The nation's gross domestic product, the value of all goods and services produced, grew from July through September at the fastest pace since the first three months of 1984, when Ronald Reagan was president. The Commerce Department previously reported a 7.2 percent third-quarter growth rate, following a 3.3 percent pace in the second quarter.

``Growth is now super-super strong compared to super strong,'' said Joseph LaVorgna, senior U.S. economist at Deutsche Bank Securities, whose forecast of 8.3 percent was the highest in a Bloomberg News survey.

Consumer spending increased at a 6.4 percent annual rate last quarter, the fastest pace in six years, and retailers such as Williams-Sonoma Inc. restocked shelves to help satisfy anticipated sales. A measure of profit widened to a record $739.7 billion, giving companies confidence to increase spending.

``Inventories declined less than people thought, and there was more production,'' said Kevin Logan, senior economist at Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein, who forecast 8.1 percent. ``The rebound in corporate profits will impress people with the idea that business spending will continue to support the economy for the next quarter or two.''

Fourth-quarter GDP is forecast to expand at a slower annual rate than last quarter because consumers will have less cash in their pockets from tax cuts and mortgage refinancing. The first wave of the tax cuts President George W. Bush won from Congress hit during the quarter.

Forecasts

The median forecasts in the Bloomberg survey of 70 economists was 7.8 percent, with estimates ranging from 6.9 percent to 8.3 percent. Economists had raised estimates after a report this month showed that inventories unexpectedly rose in September for the first time in six months.

The benchmark 10-year Treasury note due in November 2013 rose 3/32, pushing its yield down 1 basis point to 4.22 percent at 9:34 a.m.

Adjusted for inflation, GDP totaled $9.82 trillion at an annual rate. Unadjusted for the change in prices, the economy grew at a 10 percent annual rate to $11.06 trillion. Real final sales rose 8 percent, more than the 7.8 percent first estimate.

The pickup in consumer, business and government demand drained inventories at a slower pace in the quarter than the government had estimated following the rise in September stockpiles. Inventories contracted at a $14.1 billion rate, compared with a $35.8 billion drop estimated last month.

Inventories

Inventories added 0.16 to GDP after the revisions, the first addition since the fourth quarter of 2002. The government had previously estimated a 0.67 percentage point subtraction.

``There was some concern that the building inventories in September could take away from fourth-quarter growth, but I think we may see companies building inventory into the fourth quarter,'' said Lou Crandall, chief economist at Wrightson ICAP LLC, in an interview. Crandall accurately forecast the 8.2 percent increase.

Williams-Sonoma Inc., owner of the Pottery Barn and Williams- Sonoma retail chains, was among companies building inventories as it boosted the amount of merchandise it offers and opened more stores. Chief Executive Officer Edward Mueller, who took over in January, has bolstered inventory at the Pottery Barn and Pottery Barn Kids chains, while adding stores and developing West Elm, a catalog with lower-price furniture.

Construction, Consumers

Residential construction spending rose 22.7 percent, faster than the 20.4 percent growth the government estimated last month. Construction spending jumped in September to a record as private nonresidential building rose the most in 11 months and housing demand held close to the record high, a government report showed earlier this month.

Consumer spending, which accounts for 70 percent of the economy, grew at a 6.4 percent annual pace from July through September, slower than the government's advance estimate last month of a 6.6 percent increase. A government report this month showed that retail sales in October declined as Americans bought fewer automobiles and paid less for gasoline.

Spending on durable goods, including automobiles, rose at a 26.5 percent rate, in line with last month's estimate. Purchases of non-durable goods rose at a 7.6 percent rate, initially reported as a 7.9 percent rise. Services spending increased 2.1 percent.

Corporate Profits

Cost-cutting and increased demand in the third quarter boosted corporate profits and gave companies confidence to expand and start to resume hiring.

Business fixed investment, which includes spending on commercial construction as well as equipment and software, rose at a 16.7 percent annual rate in the third quarter, revised from a 14 percent increase. Spending on software and equipment rose 18.4 percent.

Earnings after taxes and adjusted for the value of inventories and capital consumption, a gauge favored by many economists because it shows profits from current production, rose 11.6 percent to $739.7 billion.

Lafarge North America Inc. Chief Executive Officer Philippe Rollier said demand for the company's concrete and other construction materials should be good for the rest of the year. Lafarge North America is a unit of France's Lafarge SA, the world's largest cement company.

``We should have a better year in 2004, and 2005 should be a great year,'' Rollier said in a televised interview with Bloomberg News.

Inflation Measures

Imports subtracted 0.25 percentage point from growth, compared with the previous estimated subtraction of 0.4 percentage point. Government outlays for national defense fell at a 1.6 percent annual rate.

The Federal Reserve has kept its benchmark interest rate at 1 percent, the lowest since 1958, since June. Fed officials have said they see scant signs of inflation that might make them raise rates any time soon.

The GDP price deflator, a measure of prices tied to the report, was unchanged from the previous estimate at a 1.7 percent pace.

The personal consumption expenditures price index, a measure of inflation watched by Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan and tied to spending, rose at a 2.3 percent annual pace, originally reported as a 2.4 percent increase. Excluding food and energy, the PCE index rose 1.7 percent at an annual rate.

Gross domestic product will expand at a 4 percent annual rate from October through December, based on the median forecast of 56 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News from Oct. 24 to Nov. 3. The Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia said yesterday that its quarterly survey of 34 economists found that forecasters raised their estimate for the fourth quarter to a 4 percent growth rate from 3.9 percent in August.

The Philadelphia Fed's survey also projected that the economy will expand 4.3 percent for all of next year, the fastest since 1998. In a separate survey, the National Association for Business Economics said that its panel of 28 economists forecast 4.5 percent growth in 2004, the fastest since 1984.

Last Updated: November 25, 2003 09:46 EST
 
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JeffM
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:08 am

..shhh..... don't say that too loud...the Liberals will hear you!

Jeff
 
727LOVER
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:32 am

Peter Jennings IS reporting:

Typical right-wing nonsense!


http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Business/ap20031125_1282.html


compared to Reagan

COMPARED TO CLINTON THAT IS...  Love

[Edited 2003-11-26 00:37:37]
Love Trumps Hate
 
DC10GUY
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:47 am

This economic growth is due to the Clintons economic policy's. Bush is simply riding out Clintons great job on the economy.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Alpha 1
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:49 am

Well, we could say what all the conservatives said when the economy took off under Clinton: and that's that Clinton didn't have anything to do with it, and, really, it was more George W's recovery than Clinton's.

Think about it: this recovery, if it is maintianed, is happening pretty close to when the economy took off in Clinton's term, is it not? And all our conservative friends on here-most anyway, gave Mr. Clinton zero credit for that remarkable economy. So, are they all now going to be hypocrits, and give ALL the credit to Mr. Bush?

Fact is, that economies run in cycles, and that there's not a whole lot any president can do about it.

So JeffM, how about it? Does the same principal apply to Bush as apllied to Clinton?
 
DC10GUY
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:56 am

My point exactly my buckeye friend.... By the way I just saw dubya getting off air force one .... Sure is a beautiful airplane. Too bad it has to fly a clown around.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
727LOVER
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:27 am

Fact is, that economies run in cycles, and that there's not a whole lot any president can do about it.

Yeah, but economists are saying it's because of the tax cut, but it's a one-time gain. But I saw an article in LIBERAL  Insane USA TODAY that said early next year more folks would get tax cuts. Still meager job growth though.
Love Trumps Hate
 
N766UA
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:36 am

Bush is simply riding out Clintons great job on the economy.

Wait wait wait.... just a month ago when we blamed the BAD economy on Bill, you said it was nonsense. You said that is was untrue and it was all GW's fault. Furthermore, the democrats here said that the sitting president has almost everything to do with the condition of the economy. But wait, now that the economy is rebounding, it's suddenly all thanks to Bill? I thought Bill had nothing to do with it? Something isn't right here!
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bobrayner
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:43 am

If slow-moving economic changes, and trailing indicators, are too ambiguous...

Why not try looking at a metric that's up-to-date? Preferably, one that is sampled on a very regular basis? Consider the value of the $ compared to other currencies.  Big grin
Cunning linguist
 
apathoid
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:13 am

N766UA - There will be absolutely no more nailing it right on the head Mister! Liberals like Alpha get very defensive when you catch them in their own lies.

OMG this is funny. Predictable to a tea, but quite amusing none the less.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:15 am

N766UA, Hey your right, maybe the president don't have a thing to do with the economy !!! Maybe the republicans use Clinton for an excuse for anything that goes wrong while Bush is in office ... Yah think ???
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Alpha 1
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:16 am

Apathoid, what lie? I've always maintained that economies pretty much run themselves in cycles. Tax cuts and increases can have marginal effect on them, but they don't drive them-never have, never will. I think the true "lie" is that conservatives gave George W. all the credit for the economy that was going on under Clinton-all 6 years of it, and blame Clinton for the last two-year downturn, but then give a current president all the credit for the current recovery. That's just hypocricy.

President's can nudge economies in certain directions. They cannot take an economy wherever they want it to go.

And call me liberal all you want-what you mean is "reactionary", not liberal. I am more liberal in some areas, more conservative in others. I don't know how long I have to keep telling morons on both extremes that fact.
 
N766UA
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:23 am

Maybe the republicans use Clinton for an excuse for anything that goes wrong while Bush is in office ... Yah think ???

I can't speak for other people, but I myself have never used Clinton as a scapegoat. Maybe my statement is just too true for you to adress directly? I don't know. IMHO the economy is influenced very little by the president.....any president.
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JeffM
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:27 am

Clinton didn't have anything to do with it...........

Jeff
 
Alpha 1
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:03 am

What did have nothing to do with, JeffM? That wasn't exactly a clear statement.  Smile
 
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JeffM
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:25 am

alpha...
It was in response to your reply....# 4.

Clear now?
 
Alpha 1
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:27 am

Ok, fair enough. Than Bush had nothing to do with this economy.

Or, are you telling me you're a complete hypocrite, and not just a little bit of one?
 
KYIPpilot
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:31 am

I always thought that Clinton just benefited from the computer and internet boom. It was something that neither he nor Bush Sr. did to make it good. I think that the good economy would have happened no matter if there was a democrat or republican in office.
"It starts when you're always afraid; You step out of line, the man come and take you away" -Buffalo Springfield
 
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JeffM
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:32 am

AsphinctersaysWhat?

Jeff
 
KYIPpilot
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:34 am

Again, Jeff dodges the question and makes an insult... Insane
"It starts when you're always afraid; You step out of line, the man come and take you away" -Buffalo Springfield
 
Alpha 1
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:36 am

AsphinctersaysWhat?

I don't know, JeffM-what to asses like yourself really say or think? You need to clarify that for us.
 
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JeffM
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:38 am

It is from a movie. Didn't expect you to get it....

It's O.K. Bush is doing just fine. We know you can't stand it. But there is not much you can do now is there?

No need to call names....and please cease with the PM's....they are getting old.

Thanks...
 
apathoid
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:39 am

Um, 727humper, that link you posted was for an AP story that happened to be on ABC's web site. Peter Jennings did NOT discuss the topic, as I stated. I never said ABC didn't. Read, man, read...
 
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JeffM
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:42 am

Wait....Gore invented the internet....
 
Alpha 1
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:42 am

JeffM, since when to I take orders from you? Never, that I can remember. So if you have PM, and i feel like using it, I will. Too bad for you.

And maybe you wouldn't have people hounding your ass if you responded to comments that are made, instead of replying with putdowns about "psychobabble", and the like. Ever think of actually spelling out what you think or feel? Oh, is that too mentally challenging for you? Too bad.
 
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JeffM
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:44 am

Save it for someone that cares. I'll just start posting some of your "better" PM's. I'm sure people could use a laugh... I know I have been. I just get tired of the same one over and over...

Take orders? Never asked you to. I just made a request. See how twisted things can get in that itsy bitsy widdle bwain of yours...

Next?
 
Alpha 1
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:48 am

I'll just start posting some of your "better" PM's

ROTFL. Go ahead, and get a 3 day suspension. There's a rule about private conversations on here, pal.  Laugh out loud

And you do care, or else you wouldn't be responding. My concern is that you don't care, it's that you don't have anything to say about a subject, excpet mindless put-down. Some of us do like discussing the issues, as you see above. You? You just avoid the issues completely, and belittle those who differ with your world view. Convenient, really.

I just made a request.

I only accept requests from people that I have some respect from, and you're not one of those. Request denied.
 
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JeffM
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:05 pm

Glad to hear you are concerned... But your right...I don't really care. It is fun listening to you whine and moan claiming your right though. I think the PM's from the others wanting me to continue is reason enough...

Don't you think?
 
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STT757
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:11 pm

"Consider the value of the $ compared to other currencies. "

A weak dollar is actually being encouraged right now by this Administration, it's part of the reason why the economy is recovering as fast as it is and why the EU economies are not experiencing the same growth.

The weak US Dollar is helping US exporters and hurting EU exporters, it's helping to bring down the Massive trade inbalance. European Companies rely heavily on exports to the US, the strong Dollar over the years has benefitted them at the cost of US manufacturers.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Alpha 1
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:16 pm

Then continue, JeffM. All you're doing is embarrassing yourself. At least I've laid out a case for or against something. You don't even do that. You just want to demean those who differ with you? Amazing you have nothing to say on the subjects at hand, except talk of "psychobabble".

By the way, has that mirror cracked yet?  Laugh out loud

Oh, and tell all of those who are PMing you to continue to see if they have the gonads to PM me and give me hell. I can take it, unlike you.  Smile

[Edited 2003-11-26 04:17:48]
 
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JeffM
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:24 pm

Well your wrong there Alpo... Once again. You have a fixation with mirrors don't you? That and the word ass. Jeez...change it up once in awhile.

Next?
 
Alpha 1
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:27 pm

You're right, I need to keep those words out of my vocabulary, or people will mistake me with Singapore_Air on here.  Laugh out loud

And again, you prove my point about you not wanting to discuss issues, but just call names. I, at least, know how to spell your name on here. Maybe you need that remedial spelling class.
 
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JeffM
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:35 pm

I've considered that class.. How was it?

 
Alpha 1
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:37 pm

I graduated that one about 35 years ago, my friend. And, as you can see, I don't need it, because I know how to spell, and to think for myself, thank you!
 
KYIPpilot
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:38 pm

Wow, Alpha1 and JeffM's keyboards are both smokin' tonight!  Laugh out loud You guys sure don't see face to face. Been at it all night.
"It starts when you're always afraid; You step out of line, the man come and take you away" -Buffalo Springfield
 
Alpha 1
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:41 pm

Sorry, KYIPilot, but when you can't get anyone to tell you what the fuck he stands for, he deserves to get reamed all night. Maybe if he grew a brain, and actually articulated what he believes or stands for, then he wouldn't have me giving him hell.
 
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JeffM
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:42 pm

Actually we are more alike then different. It is funny you mention face to face....ask Alpha about that one.... Big thumbs up
 
KYIPpilot
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:43 pm

Don't worry Alpha1, I'm on your side, and I agree with you. I can't believe some are so brainwashed by god Bush.
"It starts when you're always afraid; You step out of line, the man come and take you away" -Buffalo Springfield
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 1:16 pm

This economic growth is due to the Clintons economic policy's. Bush is simply riding out Clintons great job on the economy.

Like Clinton rode the great job on the economy done by his predecessor.

Get it through your heads folks, no President himself can take any credit for the economy, good or bad.

No surprise to see Dc10guy and 727Lover spewing Left-wing diatribe.

I didn't even bother to see what pathetic diatribe the right-wing nuts spewed in response. No point really.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
727LOVER
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:29 pm

No surprise to see Dc10guy and 727Lover spewing Left-wing diatribe.

My comments in reply #6 were fairly balanced!  Insane
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Matt D
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:34 pm

There have been 5 million new jobs created in the last year!


I know. I have 4 of them.

Signed,
Your Typical honest American Worker
 
Alpha 1
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:37 pm

There may have been 5 million created, but about that many have been lost, because, so far, this "recovery" is a truly jobless recovery. No mention about the 2-plus million manufacturing jobs lost in the last year along. But that would ruin the image, I guess.
 
Matt D
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:40 pm

Alpha: Did you not see the humor in that very anti-Bush message I just posted?
 
Alpha 1
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:42 pm

I caught it, believe me. I got a good chuckle out of it, Matt D.  Smile
 
jamesag96
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:12 am

Technology and the internet boom caused the economic upturn in the mid to late 90's...the subsequent bust caused the economic downturn in the late 90's into the 00's. All on the Clinton watch.

The world is right on one thing, Americans have a very short attention span.

J
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
Sabena 690
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Thu Nov 27, 2003 4:13 am

The totally illogic thing from our neocon members is that they say that Bush has nothing to do with the bad economy, but now it suddenly goes up, it's thanks to Bush.

So when the economy is bad, it has nothing to do with Bush (unless they can blame Clinton of course), but when it betters, we must adore Bush!

Strange if you ask me...
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Thu Nov 27, 2003 4:16 am

My comments in reply #6 were fairly balanced!

And reply #2!? Typical right-wing nonsense!

Peter Jennings is right-wing!? God, don't you ever watch FOX News! You might have a coronary!

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
aloges
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Thu Nov 27, 2003 4:33 am

"So when the economy is bad, it has nothing to do with Bush (unless they can blame Clinton of course), but when it betters, we must adore Bush!"

That's what they call "supporting a president". I think we could expect the same from a fair share of DNC supporters when it comes to Clinton. That's sadly just the way it is.
_____

Now, what's that federal budget deficit again? several hundreds of billionf of Dollars, correct me if I'm wrong. But when you inject that kind of money into ANY economy, there's GOT to be some kind of result.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
b757300
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Thu Nov 27, 2003 4:53 am



I think this cartoon fits this topic and the replies by a few people.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
cba
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RE: That Bush Sure Is Doing A Lousy Job...

Thu Nov 27, 2003 5:15 am

Fact is, economies run in cycles. The only government agency with real control over the economy is the Federal Reserve and the Federal Open Market Committee, which operate independently of the government. Presidential Administrations have little control over the economy. The President does have control of the results of the economy. Clinton had nothing to do with the 90's boom, however he did handle the results well in eliminating a good chunk of the debt along with reforming many social programs. IF this growth continues, it will be interesting to see how Bush will handle it. We are criticizing Bush for his HANDLING of the situation, not the situation itself.

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