PKK
Topic Author
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2003 3:03 am

Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:33 pm

Any one has the video or a link?

Missile attack filmed by militants

A VIDEO showing a masked militant firing the missile that hit a DHL civilian cargo jet over Baghdad, setting its engine ablaze in the first successful hit on a plane of the seven-month-old insurgency, has been delivered to a French journalist.

Here's the link:

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7973541%255E28102,00.html
 
PanAmerican
Posts: 353
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 8:32 pm

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:04 pm

That is just plain sick if you ask me... These terrorists even film their "heroic" deeds, what can you say about that?
If the plane really had exploded, it would have been a justified punishment for the terrorist to get hit by some airplane parts, maybe the rotating engine.

PKK: I don't have a link and I'm not really keen on seeing more of these nutcases destroying our freedom and way of life.
Could you, by any chance, explain to us why your member name is that of a Kurdish terror organization?
Is that why you want to see the video?

 CryingPA
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:32 pm

PanAmerican, "I'm not really keen on seeing more of these nutcases destroying our freedom and way of life." By invading a country like Iraq, aren't we destroying other people's way of life? I mean, 40,000 dead Iraqis! Come on, who is the bad guy? Not as black and white as your pantomime indignation would suggest.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
zak
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:37 pm

i have pointed out this sick habit in another thread before, had a link of the actual video of a russian chopper being downed by chechen rebels yelling allahu akbar. sick stuff. i can look for it and repost it if anyone is interested.
10=2
 
kl911
Posts: 3979
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:53 pm

And it's even worse that it's posted by a member with a terrorist username!!!
Thats sick!
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:58 pm

I'm with Cedarjet on this one. Although, I certainly don't support the loss of American (or Iraqi) lives, if this were America that had been invaded, these so called "civilian terrorists" would be referred to as "resistance" or "freedom fighters".

Travis
 
N754PR
Posts: 2909
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 10:03 pm

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Tue Nov 25, 2003 9:01 pm

If the UK and USA continue to do their thing in the middle east I'm sorry to say this will just happen more and more.
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
PKK
Topic Author
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2003 3:03 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Tue Nov 25, 2003 9:14 pm

All......

My user name........ simply my initials.... OK!!!

Yes I think it is sick to show videos like this over and over again... and I have no intention to do so!

If you would care to check my profile before making judgments and allegations, you might be able to figure out for yourself why I asked this forum, that for the most part consists of serious minded aviation enthusiasts and professionals, for assistance.

Peter
 
kl911
Posts: 3979
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Tue Nov 25, 2003 9:16 pm

'''If the UK and USA continue to do their thing in the middle east I'm sorry to say this will just happen more and more.'''

If sadam was still there he would still be killing his own people. Rumours are he killed millions. Even if the US & UK didn't invade Iraq you have people everywhere around the world waiting for a chance to shoot down a western airliner....
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:17 pm

I couldn't be less of a fan of Saddam but KL911, "if Saddam was still there he would still be killing his own people. Rumours are he killed millions." US and UK backed UN sanctions killed millions. Saddam did not. A bad man to be sure, but he was our best mate in the Middle East in the 80s when he was at his worst (witness what he did to Iran, as well as his own people) but going and killing 40,000 Iraqis to get rid of him and still not finding him and bringing him to justice is not the right way to go about changing things over there. Add into the equation the hundreds of dead American soldiers (which brings me no joy whatsoever, quite the opposite in fact) and the hundreds more who are now living but will die there.

Zak, you are a walking contradiction habibi. "I have pointed out this sick habit in another thread before, had a link of the actual video of a Russian chopper being downed by Chechen rebels yelling Allahu akbar. Sick stuff. I can look for it and repost it if anyone is interested." Is it sick or not? If so, why are you so keen to promote it and encourage others to watch it. (And if you were a Chechen, I think you might just be praising god at the sight of a Russian chopper being brought down.)
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
sevenair
Posts: 1486
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Baghdad

Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:25 pm

well,not sure we should be having commercial traffic in or around the area yet, let the military do it, they kind of expect to be shot down, leave the commercial aircraft and innocent pilots out of the danger zone
 
airbazar
Posts: 6809
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:34 am

This is too weird. As I'm reading this thread, I look up at the TV and MSNBC is showing the video.
 
irishpower
Posts: 370
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:18 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 1:12 am

." US and UK backed UN sanctions killed millions. Saddam did not

Cedarjet, are you insane????

Now I agree that not finding Saddam or his WMD has been an issue but let's be honest here, the Iraqi people are way better off without Saddam or his sons in power. We can debate the policies of the US and UK governments until we are blue in the face--but the fact stands that the world is a better place without this NUT in power!!!


 
airtahitinui
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 4:39 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 1:13 am

Wow - cedarjet knows everything, I'm impressed. We should all be ashamed...
send a real message - DON'T VOTE!
 
IwantaBBJ
Posts: 916
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2002 2:14 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 2:39 am

Well, I wonder if "they" knew that they were firing "only" on a cargo-plane, rather than a passenger-plane with much more lives at stake....

Or maybe it was the only plane passing by when they were there....

Mike
 
SRD737NG
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:45 pm

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 3:52 am

It is amazing to me how fast people forget what happened on September 11th, 2001. Bush made the promise to hunt these guys down and fight terrorism. Everyone sure was behind him then. There were/are lots of terrorists in Iraq, and if you don't think that Saddam and his men weren't pumping money to terrorism groups, you're blind. If someone doesn't step up to the plate and do something about it, like Bush and Blair are doing, then September 11th will happen over and over b/c these terrorist groups will keep multiplying again and again. Then all the 'war protesters' would come out after a couple thousand more innocent civilians working in their offices in NYC or elsewhere are killed and say "Oh gee willikers, why does this keep happening?? We need to talk about this, let's just sit down with Akmad and Muhammad and talk this out peacefully man." ---- NO! This doesn't work. We need to invade, and hunt these people and the ones funding them one by one, and kill them. Hopefully our troops in Iraq will do this and prevent more incidents such as this DHL missile attack in the future, or more importantly, keep it from happening on US or UK soil.
 
zak
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:08 am

@Cedarjet
yes i think its sick however i am quite sure there are ppl who are interested in seeing it, just like i was before i have seen it. i dont agree with iraqis shooting sa-14s at dhl planes either, but i would still watch the vid if of it if i had access to it. not approving something doesnt mean im not interested in watching it.
10=2
 
airbazar
Posts: 6809
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:08 am

Hey SRD737NG, go buy youself a violin uh. Let me ask you something. If you're so brave why aren't you there fighting? That's what I thought. Talk is cheap.
Let's keep this crap out of this forum.
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:46 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:10 am

SRD737NG,

So you are saying that the US (and allies) should attack and kill to save the lives of people working in their offices.
Innocent civilians are everywhere and I can't see how one soul can be more important or even less important than another.
Another 9/11 can be prevented without going insane.

About the film, it's simple technology and widely available to everyone. The US bombers film and show them on major networks and now the militants are doing it. It's war in Iraq, expect to see more.
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:27 am

Irishpower,

Please read CedarJet's post again. He never said the Iraqi people were better off with Saddam. He is simply saying that Saddam was supported by the west in the 80's.

That's all he was saying. If you read the post, you will see that he opposes Saddam as does any good-hearted person on this planet.

SRD737NG,

Please don't tell me Saddam supported Al-Qaeda carry-out 9/11.

Osama Bin Laden hates Saddam Hussein and always will hate him. Saddam ran a socialist government and Osama hates socialists. While these two are indeed villains, they hated each other and would never help each other out.

Infact, in the past. Al-Qaeda has carried out terrorist attacks against Iraq over the years targetting Saddam and his regime.

So don't tell me taking out Saddam was part of the fight against Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda because it wasn't.

Regards

[Edited 2003-11-25 20:32:30]
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
SRD737NG
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:45 pm

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:39 am

Oh please Airbazar....I was responding to posts above. As an American, I can certainly have an opinion and express it as I did. Comments like yours show exactly what kind of person you are. (Finished wasting time with you now.)

And OD720....you have the "peace-loving Volkswagen bus attitude". Not going to work against terrorists my friend, plain and simple. Either we go get them, or we sit idle and let the politicians "talk it out" while these terrorist groups organize and organize, and train and train....BOOM. Another 9-11. Open your darn eyes and support your country. Oh, and are you trying to compare what we are doing in Iraq to what terrorists did in NYC and DC? Boy, I hope not.

 
User avatar
tjwgrr
Posts: 1988
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2000 4:09 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:42 am

"So you are saying that the US (and allies) should attack and kill to save the lives of people working in their offices.
Innocent civilians are everywhere and I can't see how one soul can be more important or even less important than another.
Another 9/11 can be prevented without going insane."


----------------------

So OD720, what's your solution? Sit back and wait for additional terrorist attacks on innocent civilians while trying to negotiate with terrorists and nation's that support terrorism? That'll work, I'm sure....

Maybe Churchill and Roosevelt should have tried to negotiate with Hitler a little more before committing to war....

I think we can draw parallels to this in today's world:

"So that there can be no possible misunderstanding, both Germany and Japan can be certain, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that America will continue the fight for freedom until no vestige of resistance remains!"

-- Harry S. Truman in his April 16, 1945, address before Congress
following the death of Franklin D. Roosevelt



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
ifly2eat
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:18 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:43 am

This thread really shows the complete lack of intelligence this site has. Are you morons actually saying that the world was a better place with Saddam in it. I guess the countries in the world that stand up and make hard decisions are the ones that targeted by half wits. Please!
Fly the friendly skys and stay out of mine.
 
motech722
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 12:10 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:44 am

PKK and all, if you're at all interested in seeing the video, it is available on http://www.foxnews.com. Fox News, CNN, and MSNBC have been showing it on TV throughout the day, some pretty scary stuff. I see that you're in Denmark, so not sure if any of the stations there are showing it, but it is chilling to see. The video follows the missile from the tube up to contact with the A300, striking the wing. The media was reporting it was only a 2.5-pound warhead, and that luckily the missile hit the wing and not the engine, otherwise it could have been disastrous.

DHL said the damaged Airbus A300 cargo plane was departing from Baghdad to Bahrain at 0630 GMT. Besides DHL, I heard that supposedly the only other airline flying into Iraq currently is Royal Jordanian, but they have stopped flights since this attack.

Take Care all
 
SRD737NG
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:45 pm

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:46 am

BA-

No, I was not saying that Saddam was directly responsible for 9-11. I said that we need to go after Saddam b/c he has a terrorist group of his own that is certainly capable of causing events like that of 9-11, and funding them. I realize that they are two different groups....
 
airbazar
Posts: 6809
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 5:16 am

Sorry SRD737NG, I completely forgot Americans are the only people entitled to have an opinion. How stupid of me.
By the way, I was refering to the fact that your opinion has nothing to do with Civil Aviation.
 
SRD737NG
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:45 pm

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 6:46 am

Let me get this straight Airbazar:

The effects of 9-11 and terrorism that I was talking about in my post have nothing to do with Civil Aviation?? I beg to differ,

UAL 93
UAL 175
AA 11
AA 77

I think you are wrong on that. Think about it.
 
qwerty
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2001 7:31 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:04 am

Sorry SRD737NG, I completely forgot Americans are the only people entitled to have an opinion. How stupid of me.


If you live in free Western Europe, I'd say yes.

We saved you arses in WWII.

So we're a little more entitled to an opinion than are you. Especially where it deals with our security.

Buzz off. If the AlQ bozos had been successful and pulled off that Eifel (and more) suicide mission, which was planned before 9/11/01, the tables would sure have been turned and we wouldn't have had to think for a second that our Frech stepchild could count on our help. We surely wouldn't have done things to put the pathetic French army in jeopardy if Chirac decided to "go it alone" with only 40+ friendly countries he could round up to act "unilaterrally" without US support.
 
JT8D
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 10:58 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:07 am

Truly a sick bunch of individuals. Having your country invaded must be a real bitch.

Saddam and these supporters were experts at launching wars of invasion and occupation; I guess it doesn't feel so good when it happens to you. Wonder what the penalty would have been for a Kuwaiti caught doing such a thing during Saddams short lived occupation in 91? I also wonder if they treated Kuwaitis or Iranians with a fraction of the respect The United States and its real allies do.

I can't recall anyone in recent memory, Arab or otherwise, who was responsible for killing so many Arabs in and out of his own country. Mass graves, nerve gassed children, crumbling infrastructure mixed with gilded palaces, pet lions, playboy lifestyles ... do I need to go on?

Overthrowing the mass killer and his sons was simply finishing what Saddam started in Kuwait back in 91. It should have been done then if George Bush Sr hadn't caved to pressure from the fragile coalition and a few of his advisors.

For those who obviously feel that the world was a better place with Saddam in power and the region was more stable with him, WAKE UP! Saddam made a joke out of the UN and it's never-ending stream of resolutions. Saddam was a continuing threat to neighboring countries, the US military in those countries ensured no repeat of the 91 invasion of Kuwait.

Bin Laden and his sick followers have always been angry with the US presence in Saudi Arabia. The only way to withdraw forces from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait was to eliminate Saddam.

As bad as the situation seems at the moment and with the 24hr news coverage fueling it with their "if it bleeds it leads" approach to the story, the facts remain that Saddam is gone, US troops are on their way out of Saudi Arabia and the future is brighter for the Iraqi people than it has been for decades.

The targeting of civilian aircraft and civilian targets by a small band of Saddam supporters is intended to cause fear and to reverse the slow progress being made, nothing more. Those who support civilized society should condemn such acts and not try to justify them with suggestions that in the case of Iraq it is the United States which is "destroying other peoples way of life?" Unless of course you think Saddam and supporters way of life was wholesome.

Cedarjet: "Come on, who is the bad guy? Not as black and white as your pantomime indignation would suggest."

You can't be serious??? or can you??? I'm not a Psychiatrist so I won't touch that one with a ten foot pole.

GH
Graham Hitchen, KMIA
 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:35 am

We saved you arses in WWII.

So we're a little more entitled to an opinion than are you.


If WW2 is what qualifies you to have an opinion (which most sane people would disagree with), then Russia is entitled to a rather bigger opinion than you ever had.

However, this belongs in non-aviation.
Cunning linguist
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13176
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:40 am

According to Roy in another thread the US are the ones who shot at this aircraft, not Islamic Terrorists.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
JT8D
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 10:58 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:01 am

"According to Roy in another thread the US are the ones who shot at this aircraft, not Islamic Terrorists."

Oh brother, don't tell me.....let me guess...... he also claims that President Bush is hiding the Roswell autopsy papers under his pillow and that he (Roy) was on the grassy knoll in Dallas back in 63 and saw GWB behind the fence with a rifle ???? am I right, am I right!

It just never ends.  Insane

GH



Graham Hitchen, KMIA
 
N754PR
Posts: 2909
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 10:03 pm

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:28 am

JT8D,

Yes, just like they never shot down the A300, destroyed the Chinese embassy, sunk a boat full of students, cut a cablecar line......
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
Ant72LBA
Posts: 374
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 7:42 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:31 am

If being friends with Saddam in the 1980s helped stop a rain of SS20s obliterating me then I can understand why help was offered to him. Comparing the situation then and now as though they were the same is idiotic in the extreme. Nobody should be above admitting they were wrong but peoples ideals were very different in the early 80's.
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3061
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:36 am


How did I guess that this thread would be hijacked by a debate on US policy???

Qwerty - thats the stupidest post I've read on here so far. Wake up to yourself. Australia was in Europe for WW1 and WW2 long before Americans arrived. Not forgetting Korea, Vietnam and 2 Gulf Wars with the USA. So don't give me any of this your not entitled to an opinion rubbish if your in Western Europe because we saved you. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them not entitled to opinion. Re-read your history and have a look at what your own Presidents been saying lately about mending fences before you make such stupid and irrelevant posts.
 
Theiler
Posts: 576
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 8:39 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:41 am

This really needs to be moved to the Non-Av forum.

I'm so fed up with this subject.
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3061
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:44 am


I totally agree, there is no need to debate US foreign policy on an aviation forum. I'd rather read how much everyone hates Southwest or which US airline is going to go belly up next!!!!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
VectorVictor
Posts: 384
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:31 am

This Topic

Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:51 am

A300, destroyed the Chinese embassy, sunk a boat full of students, cut a cablecar line......

All accidents. US accepted blame. Paid compensation where it could.
 
VS340
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:50 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:04 am

Nobody should be above admitting they were wrong but peoples ideals were very different in the early 80's.

I wouldn't say that, its a pretty well known fact that the US and UK along with many other western nations are still allied and supporting "terrorist nations" such as Saudi Arabia, which, by the way, is where 15 of the 19 September 11 hijackers came from,the other 3 were from Egypt, U.A.E. and Lebanon, they were not from Iraq or Afghanistan or Iran or Syria, they did not even have any ties to these countries. Meanwhile Saudi Arabian Princes and Businessmen are the major funders of Islamic terrorism worlwide, and yet The country is still a major ally. It looks to me like the ideals are still the same, its just the allies and the enemies have changed

As for that completely ignorant statement (by far not the only one on this thread)

We saved you arses in WWII

we all know how supporters of this war love to throw that into the argument all the time but the fact of the matter is that Bobrayner is right, the Soviets did far more to stop the NAZI's on the eastern front than the USA, UK, Canada and the other allies combined did on the western.

And if you want throw in stupid insignificant historical facts that in no way affect what is happening in the modern world today than I believe it would be fair to say that the USA would not exist today if the French hadn't intervened in the War of Indepence, you would all still be under British rule, or at best a wonderful socialist paradise with strong ties to your former British rulers, much like your nice friends to the north, Canada

And Now back to aviation.

[Edited 2003-11-26 02:06:57]

[Edited 2003-11-26 02:07:24]
 
JT8D
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 10:58 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:20 am

Ah yes how stupid of me, I forgot how evil the Americans are, soooooo soooorrrry N754pr

Firstly I don't know what your post has to do with any word I have written here. Please please, enlighten me.

If you want to start a flame war over the history of warfare and your little tit-for-tat shit slinging lets go. To be fair to the others here I suggest we start a thread in non-aviation or if you prefer, email me directly.

I have looked forward to putting seven years of University study plus 15 years of consulting on the history of warfare to documentary and film productions to real use. (To think my father tried to get me to study economics). Anyway, let the games begin!

Despite the lack of clarity in your reply directed at me, I think I can guess where you are coming from. To continue with your profound notion then, I think a good starting point would be: if you could list the world powers going back say, 200 years, whose military services have NOT inflicted collateral damage to non-combatants through accident, poor communication, or even intentionally by rogue elements within. I trust you have a high level of understanding on that subject based on your post. I will start preparing for your answer by dusting off my books and notes.

I await your response.
Graham Hitchen, KMIA
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:38 am

the Soviets did far more to stop the NAZI's on the eastern front than the USA, UK, Canada and the other allies combined did on the western

If by that you mean the Soviets invented a machine to control the weather, then you'd be correct...since the bitter winters along the eastern front are what ultimately slowed the Nazi war machine to a crawl. The Red Army did not fare well against the Nazis, and the Soviet Air Force was no match for the Luftwaffe.

The weather is what defeated the Germans when they pushed eastward. Once the Nazis were slowed to a halt and their supply lines were rendered ineffective, the Soviets outlasted them and then began to push their depleted forces back.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3061
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:39 am


Since we're completely off topic I thought I'd add this since it was just emailed to me;

George Bush met The Queen, and he turns round and says: "As I'm the
President, I'm thinking of changing how the country is referred to, and I'm
thinking that it should be a Kingdom" The Queen replies "I'm sorry Mr Bush,
but to be a Kingdom, you have to have a King in charge - and you're not a
King." George Bush thought a while and then said: "How about a Principality
then?" To which the Queen replied "Again, to be a Principality you have to
be a Prince - and you're not a Prince, Mr Bush". Bush thought long and hard
and came up with "How about an Empire then?" The Queen, getting a little
annoyed by now, replies "Sorry again, Mr Bush, but to be an Empire you must
have an Emperor in charge - and you are not an Emperor." Before George Bush
could utter another word, The Queen said: "I think you're doing quite
nicely as a Country".

 
dan-air
Posts: 600
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 1999 6:13 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:44 am

Reasons for going to war with Iraq:

1. "tons and tons of bio/chem/nuclear" weapons in Iraq, can be unleashed at 45 minute notice (found not to be true)
2. Iraq responsible for/colluded with Bin Laden on 9/11 (found not to be true)

These were the reasons the US and Britain went to war in Iraq. Not because Saddam was a "bad man" or because he had "gassed his own people".

War estimates:
Total cost: $6 billion (vs. $150 billion already committed through 2004)
Total time troops would be required in Iraq: 6 months (vs. Unknown. Likely a decade or more).

Whether you like it or not folks, these are *LIES*. Thousands have died for them, thousands more will. And we ain't one iota safer.

/end rant







 
Sydscott
Posts: 3061
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:50 am


I'd just like to know what everyone thinks about Southwests service and whether they are destroying aviation in the US by only offering cheap as tickets???  Smile/happy/getting dizzy (Please don't anyone respond to that)

Back on topic I just watched the video in question and found it as disturbing as the Chechen one shooting down the Russians. Thankgod the crew got down safely. It always amazes me what people will do when they are motivated to such extremes.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13176
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:03 pm

"Bobrayner is right, the Soviets did far more to stop the NAZI's on the eastern front than the USA, UK, Canada and the other allies combined did on the western"

Uh hate to break this to you but the massive US military aide (guns, bullets, planes, food, oil etc) given to the former Soviet Union kept them afloat. Without the massive aide the US sent to the artic crossings Moscow and Stalingrad would have fallen to the Nazis, and Vladidostok (spl?) would have fallen to Japan.

What won WWII for the Allies was the mass production capability of the US, which armed the militaries of the Soviets, Britain, Canada, Australia, China as well as US forces against Germany, Italy and Japan.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3061
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:12 pm


Not to mention the whole "Battle of Britain" thing done by the Royal Air Force which denied Hitler the control of the skies he needed to invade. How different the outcome would have been if the UK had fallen before the US had even entered the war.

Plus I'd hate to break it to you STT757 but the Japanese considered going for Vladivostok and decided to go South instead. It was their strategy not the US that kept them out of Eastern Russia.
 
qwerty
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2001 7:31 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:34 pm

Soviets? You kidding me. How many ships did the Russians contribute to the flotilla that actually pushed back the Nazis? From what direction did the Reds push in the Battle of the Buldge? The Soviets helped by fighting hard and not letting their country be taken in whole hog the rest of the limp-wristed Eurocrats (who bear a nice likeness to the chaps you have running some of your socialist liesure states today.) Save the Poles and the Czecks and some of the Eastern western-thinkers. And of course the Brits and the Aussies (who yes, were pivotal fighters in the World Wars).

Like it or not, without the US and what we drove, rumbled, flew, floated, and shipped out of our factories and our shores, your arses were in trouble. How many European men are buried overseas ending what was their only trip to the United States to help do the right thing?

All you hot wind-ers whining about what is going on in Iraq should really consider the reality of life. Some die so the many don't. As Americans, we've always got that.

RE: taking this out of Civil Aviation. I'm all for it, point the way. I like to hear the counter positions. But I should remind, who used airpower to keep Berlin from falling when your beloved Soviets began misbehaving? True, that was another unilaterral misbehavior of the evil America. But, hey, it's aviation related.
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3061
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:55 pm


I'm not siding with anyone here buy;

1. How many ships did the Russians contribute to the flotilla that actually pushed back the Nazis? From my recollections there wasn't any "flotilla" especially since Germany is only accessible through the Baltic.

2. How many Reds were at the Battle of the Bulge?? None that I recall but thats probably because they were fighting on the Eastern Front.

3. Socialist Leisure States??? They actually sound like fun places when you think about it.

4. I'm sure there are a few French buried in the states from helping with the revolutionary war???

5. Some die so the many dont??? So does that mean that Indonesia could annihilate Australia because we may pose a threat to them in the future??? Should the Chinese be encouraged to takeover Taiwan again to avoid the prospect of war in the future??? Isn't that rather dangerous policy to have when you consider other more populous countires looking at America???
 
qwerty
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2001 7:31 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 1:14 pm

4. I'm sure there are a few French buried in the states from helping with the revolutionary war???

You are right, keeping the British Fleet tied up was very helpful. I concede this point entirely. The French position relative to the US colonists and the King of England was very helpful.

So does that mean that Indonesia could annihilate Australia because we may pose a threat to them in the future???

You might want to keep an eye on bastions of Islamic radicalism in the most populated Islamic country.

Should the Chinese be encouraged to takeover Taiwan again to avoid the prospect of war in the future???

They probably would if the US wasn't the US. Interesting isn't it?

Isn't that rather dangerous policy to have when you consider other more populous countires looking at America???

What, policy? Killing the terrorists who have killed and want to kill Americans. Sounds dangerous to do what we did before - half-way fighting. Seriously, I don't want to flame this point, but what is the alternative? Trying to get along? Been there, done that.
 
VS340
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:50 am

RE: Missile Attack Filmed By Militants

Wed Nov 26, 2003 1:16 pm

Excuse me but where in any of the posts did anyone call the Soviets "Beloved" or even say that they supported them? The Soviet was an evil empire with the worst human rights abuses in history. Try not to read things that arent being said.

My point was that the US did not win WWII singlehandedly, nor did they save Europe singlehandedly, they were part of a large coalition of troops who removed the Nazis from power, the Coalition of course included the Soviets who pretty much handled the eastern front on their own, even if they were using some US supplies.

The whole point of the argument is that everytime a european says they don't support the US, it is just a plain stupid argument to throw in that We saved you arses in WWII because the US wasn't the only ones there and on top of that it is irrelevant to the current situation in Iraq.

As for us Hot-winders, I apologize for not buying into the complete lies that were thrown at us by the Bush And Blair administrations. The entire basis for this war was WMD's and Terrorist links, both of which were proven wrong, the second before the war even started. this was NOT about how bad Saddam was, if that was the point then all ties should have been broken and regime change should have been demanded in countries like Saudi arabia and North Korea,which actually have proven terrorist links and WMD's.

This entire war was a complete lie Propagated for more devious means, and neither I nor many others buy into the lies. You can argue the "Saddam was bad man" argument until your blue in the face, but even you have to admit that was not the reasons they went to war in the first place, and that those reasons have been proven false. Spin it however you want but the truth is this war has done nothing but cost billions of dollars and worse many many lives, and it has accomplished very little , if anything at all worth mentioning.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: PacificBeach88, qfflyer, TheF15Ace and 16 guests