commander_rabb
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It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:50 pm

Spain has lost 7 of it's Intelligence agents in an ambush by Saddam loyalists and Japan has lost 2 of it's diplomats in another ambush near Tikrit.

The world must realize that these foreign nationals are there to help Iraq and their deaths only streghten the resolve of the coalition to rid Iraq of it's former regime and its terrorists. It is no longer just "against" the United States. All countries are at risk.

Prime Minister Koizumi of Japan will move forward with it's Japanese Defence Force deployment. Once again these terrorists have mis-calculated.

The United States stands proud and strong with these two fine countries and for their support for this just and noble cause.





 
photopilot
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:25 pm

When you find the Weapons of Mass Delusion...... let us know!
 
Alpha 1
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:30 pm

There is not a fucking thing, Commander rabb, that is just and noble about this cause. Invading country not at war with is; dictating their government; going to war over dubious reasons, is not just, it's not noble. That's horse shit. It's a disgrace, and that's what history will record it as. Enjoy being associated and supporting a disgrace.
 
JeffM
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:55 pm

Ah, nothing like listening to a "legend in his own mind" ramble about what he thinks is right.....

I do enjoy being associate with the "right" side.

Cha Ching.

 
b757300
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:03 pm

I think I figured out why Saddam's cronies have resisted far more than the surviving Nazis and Japanese militants did at the end of World War II. At the end of W.W.I.I., it was clear who was the victor and who was the vanquished. Germany and Japan has been reduced to rubble and Japan had seen the awesome power of the atomic bomb.

In Iraq we were too quick and too nice. The nation didn't have to suffer and we didn't turn cities into piles of rubble. Those still loyal to Saddam never had to look total destruction in the eyes and see that they really were defeated. We need to stop fighting a politically correct war and start shooting some stuff to bits.

Of course, the terrorists that have come to Iraq don't care one way or the other about Saddam or the Iraqi people. They just want to kill Americans and anyone else who supports us.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
emiratesa345
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:07 pm

There's nothing like seeing JeffM ramble about what HE thinks is right...

We all have different opinions. Therefore you are NO ONE to say who is or isn't on the right side.

EmiratesA345 Smile
You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
 
JeffM
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:10 pm

Hey Mark, If I want to write something on here, I do. How's that?
Stay in school, the world needs more good fashion consultants....  Wow!
 
emiratesa345
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:17 pm

Yes, yes it does.

Unfortunately for you, I could outdress you on my worst day.

As for your retarded comment, Its called a part time job. I go to school, and I earn money on the side.

Enlighten me with what it is that you do...
You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
 
JeffM
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:18 pm

Nah, I'll just let you out dress me.... and leave it at that..!

You go boy!
 
flyboy36y
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:19 pm

Jeff,

would you prefer the whole American population joined the military?
 
JeffM
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:28 pm

Jacob,
That is a decision each individual has to make on their own. But in answer to you question, No. It would be a waste of time for many, and a waste of money to deal with them.

v/r
Jeff
 
emiratesa345
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:34 pm

Jeff is just upset because he can't dress himself properly and looks like an idiot when he goes out in public.

Otherwise he wouldn't go making stupid remarks as to what people do for jobs. It's okay though. He's not the only one.

If you are implying that I or people that do know how to present themselves in public are homosexual by that last bit, then you have a thing or two coming.

EmiratesA345
You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
 
JeffM
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:40 pm

It's O.K. Mark, you can keep your preferences to yourself, we don't want to know. I will apologise, as I have never run into a male fashion consultant that wasn't, so I may have jumped to conclusions.

 
emiratesa345
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:42 pm

I hope you get hit by a bus.  Laugh out loud

EmiratesA345
You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
 
NoUFO
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:54 pm

Great, just another Iraq related thread. And yes, I know I better shouldn't even think of responding to this topic, let alone to something B757300 writes. But this right-wing aquivalent to Roy really cracks me up. Indeed, I wonder who is worse. You are really advocating even more violence, you WANT to see civilians die because this would fit your weird theory neatly. Did it ever cross your mind that both situations - Germany 1945 and Iraq 2003 - are two completely different pair of shoes? Fear for the Russians, enlightenment, a period of democracy - non-existent in today's Iraq. The only thing, which I think comes close to early post-war Germany is that the Iraqi people are tired after three Gulf wars and a long period of severe sanctions. And now you want to put some nukes on top of it, or what? If you would be in Iraq right now seeing your pal disappear in a body bag - I would, somehow, understand. But certainly not under this circumstances.

Instead of dreaming of killing innocents and harming international statutes (like Americans already do at Guantanamo Bay) you should think again and wonder what effects a "total war" against regions in the muslim ME will likely cause. Terrorism maybe? You wonder why they are fighting against your troops and against anything considered "west"? They think the western world's in a crusade against the Holy Quran and the poor believers. They consider the US ("the big devil") and Israel ("the small devil") in the forefront of the above mentioned "crusade". This means they think WE - your country AND mine - are the true agressors.

And now you want to bomb them, kill them and rot them out to make them change their mind? Do you use to extinguish a fire by adding kerosine to it?

You are even more openly graving for blood than Roy is. For a glimpse of a moment I wanted to call you "Americanguy" (in reference to Roy's nick) but I do not want to insult the vast majority of level-headed Americans.

[Edited 2003-11-30 07:03:59]
I support the right to arm bears
 
JeffM
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:55 pm

I hope you stay in canada.  Wow!
 
NoUFO
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq

Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:59 pm

Wow, in the meantime this thread turned ... hmm ... funny? It's much better nowthan before, that's for sure.
I support the right to arm bears
 
emiratesa345
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:01 pm

Yea... I found the way he dresses himself funny as well.

EmiratesA345
You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
 
commander_rabb
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:42 pm

Nations commit themselves for various reasons. Spain and Japan have done particularly so. They also say that Iraqis should join Washington's program, or risk being cut out of the process altogether. President Bush has said "You have the opportunity to seize the moment and rebuild your great country based on dignity and freedom...The regime of Saddam Hussein has gone forever... We will stay until the job is done."

For all the merits both pro and con about why the Unites States forced Saddam out, it would certainly be more prudent to see Iraq be successful in rebuilding it's country and providing the best for its citizens.

Now it looks like Spain and Japan will further commit themselves to help do just that, just as their Italian brothers have as well.

There is no more nobel and greater cause than to help one's fellow man and neighbor in time of crisis. And the crisis is instability caused by forces that seek to reinstate the ways of old. That is to say Saddam and his former regime.


 
Alpha 1
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:44 pm

"Americanguy"? ROTFLMAO!!  Laugh out loud  Laugh out loud

Why the hell didn't I think of that.

From now on, B757300, you will be referred by me as "Americanguy"

All, hail "Americanguy"!!!!
 
L-188
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:34 pm

Americanguy?

Why because he defends his nation against attacks by some members here.

The rest of us should be so lucky.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Scorpio
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:29 pm

Why because he defends his nation against attacks by some members here.


Umm, how about because he's an extremist right-wing NUT, much like Roy (Indianguy, see the connection? Indianguy => Americanguy?) is an extremist left-wing NUT.

As for defending his nation... he's the one who attacks others more often than not, and all he 'defends' is the exremist right-wing part of his nation.
 
f.pier
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 11:10 pm

I sincerely agree vith France and Germany. Our soldiers are there only to support Americans and their business.

I don't support this military action, unuseful and able only to build new reasons to fight.
 
FDXmech
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Sun Nov 30, 2003 11:39 pm

That's right. Only whitey deserves a chance at democracy and a chance for a better life. Non-whites don't know the difference anyway.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
KYIPpilot
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:31 am

Reducing Iraq to complete ruble, as B757300 wants to do, sure would be "libreating" Iraq, as you war supporters have claimed. Oh but sure, they will be much better off now, rather than under Saddam, because the country will be leveled, right? It will do nothing but cause more terrorist attacks against our troops and increase hatred and the cost of this illegal invasion.
"It starts when you're always afraid; You step out of line, the man come and take you away" -Buffalo Springfield
 
airplay
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:45 am

Speaking of Canada...what about the Canadians dying in Afghanistan? The theatre of the "real" fight against terrorism?

 
ConcordeLoss
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:03 am

Guys "make no mistake about it"

People in the US watch CNN's news and think thats all thats going in the world.
That explains a lot of the unrealism that is going on around here.

[Edited 2003-11-30 17:04:35]
"You're not as stupid as you look, or sound, or our best test indicates" Burns to Homer
 
cancidas
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:05 am

speaking of combat losses, poland lost it's first soldier in iraq as well. he was a major.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
bobrayner
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 5:49 am

Spain has lost 7 of it's Intelligence agents in an ambush by Saddam loyalists and Japan has lost 2 of it's diplomats in another ambush near Tikrit.

Saddam loyalists? I didn't realise any particular political group had claimed responsibility. The Iraqi can't simply be divided into two groups - those who liked SH, and those who welcomed his overthrow. Not all of those who hate Coalition forces want SH back.

If you make such binary assumptions, your argument is going to be wrong from the first line.

Once again these terrorists have mis-calculated.

Few Iraqis are likely to be analysing Japanese political haggling over the nature of their constitution.

this just and noble cause.

Getting rid of an evil dictator (I continually ask how he came to power or stayed there, but few Bush-supporters have responded) was a just and noble cause, but it was not the original reason; that reason only rose to the top of the list after references to 9/11, terrorists generally, and WMDs were discredited.

In Iraq we were too quick and too nice. The nation didn't have to suffer and we didn't turn cities into piles of rubble. Those still loyal to Saddam never had to look total destruction in the eyes and see that they really were defeated. We need to stop fighting a politically correct war and start shooting some stuff to bits.

Even if you think that further destruction is desirable, rather than abhorrent, in Iraqistan - the least I could do is point out that you'd probably have to spend more rebuilding afterwards; you'd generate more angry Iraqis, not less; and your forces would have to stay there a lot longer. Perhaps you'd consider a bigger tax bill to be the most serious drawback.

Of course, the terrorists that have come to Iraq don't care one way or the other about Saddam or the Iraqi people. They just want to kill Americans and anyone else who supports us.

One partitularly odd argument put forward by some supporters of the Bush administration is that many/most/all of the attacks on coalition are by outsiders. This is, presumably, a consequence of assuming that the Iraqi people all agree with your noble cause.

They also say that Iraqis should join Washington's program, or risk being cut out of the process altogether.

Which program, and when did the Iraqi people get any great involvement in it?

There is no more nobel and greater cause than to help one's fellow man and neighbor in time of crisis. And the crisis is instability caused by forces that seek to reinstate the ways of old. That is to say Saddam and his former regime.

A crisis completely unrelated to the invasion of Iraq, of course.
Cunning linguist
 
IndianGuy
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:07 pm

Alpha1 cant keep away from the personal insults i see! Thats pretty much the only option when you run out of arguments!

To get to the topic: The American occupation of Iraq is illegal, and the Iraqi people are goign to fight to win back their freedom. Nowhere except in the delusional minds of some inthe White House and some like Alpha1 ehre beleive that America would be welcomed in Iraq as "liberators" and so forth. On the contrary, Iraqi's are greeting American mercenaries with grenades and rockets. Even womenfolk adn children have been shown spittiing and throwing rotten tomatoes at American mercenaries as they pass by. This shows the level of resentment among the Iraqi people. Iraq is not a country like Afghanistan that you can occupy so easily. They are going to fight back.

other countries like Italy and Japan should have been wiser and kept out of this mess. Unfortunately bth Itraly and Japan have spineless political leaders who bend over to kiss Yankee ass. the net result is that the Japanese and Italians are also getting killed so GWB and his mad cronies can rule Iraq. Sad, but thats the truth. THe people of Italy and Japan are paying for the sins of their leaders.

Remember that the next time elections come up.

-Roy
 
emiratesa345
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:14 pm

"speaking of combat losses, poland lost it's first soldier in iraq as well. he was a major."

Poland had no business being there in the first place. Things like this happen in war.

EmiratesA345 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
 
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yyz717
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:18 pm

The American occupation of Iraq is illegal

So was Saddam's rule then.

Nowhere except in the delusional minds of some inthe White House and some like Alpha1 ehre beleive that America would be welcomed in Iraq as "liberators" and so forth. On the contrary, Iraqi's are greeting American mercenaries with grenades and rockets. Even womenfolk adn children have been shown spittiing and throwing rotten tomatoes at American mercenaries as they pass by

Incorrect. A recent Gallup poll showed Baghdad residents 62% in favour of the US occupancy.

Remember that the next time elections come up.

Ah yes....elections. Good point. Thanks the US the Iraqis can now look fwd to elections also.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:20 pm

The American occupation of Iraq is illegal, and the Iraqi people are goign to fight to win back their freedom.

You'd have to have had freedom to begin with, tovarich, before you can gain it back. They've had no freedom for at least 4 decades, so how can they "win it back". Again, like a boxer who can't take a puch, you keep ducking. Why don't you explain that one, Roy?
 
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yyz717
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:22 pm

Alpha has a point. The US occupation will soon end and Iraqi democracy can then flower. This would not have been possible under Saddam. The US is the conduit to freedom and democracy that Iraqi's yearn for.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
N79969
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:23 pm

"Poland had no business being there in the first place. Things like this happen in war."

British and Indian soldiers were involved in the post-war occupation of Japan. I suppose none of them had business there either.

Contrary to Roy's nonsensical posts. Iraq has been liberated from the tyranny of Saddam Hussein who, in Roy's opinion, must have been a good leader for Iraq.

If you think logically (Roy, time for you to pick your nose or something else you are capable of), the leaders of Italy and Japan have shown tremendous political courage in deciding to send participate in the reconstruction of Iraq.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:25 pm

Alpha has a point. The US occupation will soon end and Iraqi democracy can then flower.

I didn't say democracy would flower, Yyz717. I'm terribly worried about the administration setting a politically-motivated deadline for pulling out of Iraq. If the nation hasn't stabalized more by June-and I hope to hell it has-then if we leave, you could be looking at a civil war, with Saddam, if he hasn't been caught or killed, leading one faction. That scares the hell out of a lot of people.

We need to stay there till things ARE indeed stabalized, and not leave because George Bush is worried what the voters will think at home.
 
airplay
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:36 pm

The US occupation will soon end and Iraqi democracy can then flower

Two things wrong with this statement. The US occupation will NOT end soon by all indications. Huge long term troop commitments are being made. The whole mess is getting messier by the day.

Number two, "Iraqi democracy" is a pipe dream. You have at least 3 very different cultures forced to live within some arbitrary borders formulated by the British. Saddam is no angel, but I think there would have been some pretty spectacular fighting and conflict between the 3 major "tribes" if it were not for the order Saddam maintained through brutality.

In my opinion, an Iraqi democracy at this point would just dissolve into instability without rigorous oversight. The truly effective plan for the region would include segregation of the 3 main groups by redrawing the border(s). That would be a start. Iraq is not destined to become a copy of western melding pots any time soon. The disputes in the region are too well rooted to go away just because the US declares a democracy...
 
Alpha 1
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:39 pm

Number two, "Iraqi democracy" is a pipe dream.

I won't sit on that chair, either, Airplay. It may be a difficult task, but it doesn't mean it can't be done. But it will take a long-term committment from the U.S. and th U.N. to make it work. That means patience, patience, patience. And that's hard to do when daily attacks are happening. Freedom-true freedom is possible, but it will be at a stiff price, and won't happen overnight.
 
airplay
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:43 pm

Freedom-true freedom is possible, but it will be at a stiff price, and won't happen overnight.

OK..I can buy that. At least you acknowledge it won't be easy...
 
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yyz717
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:03 pm

You have at least 3 very different cultures forced to live within some arbitrary borders formulated by the British.

Fair enough. So let them split into 3 different countries. Or allow a degree of self-rule.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
ConcordeLoss
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:14 pm

The US occupation will soon end and Iraqi democracy can then flower

What exactly is your definition of soon? What democracy are you talking about?

Did you guys see that picture of that soldier handcuffing a 7 year old Iraqi girl? Why? Why would they do that?

This thing is just getting worse and worse.

"You're not as stupid as you look, or sound, or our best test indicates" Burns to Homer
 
B2707SST
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RE: It's Not Just Americans That Are Dying In Iraq.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:31 pm

The latest spate of attacks makes it crystal clear that the vaunted "international peacekeeping force" the Dems are pushing for will make very little difference. Iraqi insurgents have shown no qualms in attacking Italians, Spaniards, Colombians, Japanese, etc., and have deliberately targeted non-military organizations like the United Nations and the International Red Cross, not to mention the hundreds of innocent Iraqi civilians killed thus far. It is far from clear that a greater international presence would "legitimize" the occupation in the minds of the insurgents.

The other justification for more international troops is that more bodies on the ground would dilute the risk, which seems rather underhanded to me - like asking Italian or Japanese soldiers to die in place of ours. God forbid that any servicepeople from any nation are killed, but the US started this war, for good or ill, and we owe it to the Iraqi people to put their nation on its feet. That said, international forces who voluntarily decide to speed up the process and work for the good of the Iraqi people should be warmly welcomed.

We need to stay there till things ARE indeed stabalized, and not leave because George Bush is worried what the voters will think at home.

Absolutely correct; we need to stay in Iraq for as long as it takes, although some fairly radical steps may be needed, such as partitioning Iraq into largely autonomous Shi'a, Sunni, and Kurdish states. The Democratic presidential contenders are not helping by promising to remove US troops should they be elected. If Iraq seems chaotic and violent now, imagine what will happen if coalition troops withdraw before a stable and democratic government is estabilshed.

--B2707SST
Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.

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