MD-90
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Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 5:02 am

Religion Increasingly Splits Voters
By Steven Thomma
Knight Ridder News Service

The gist of the article

If you attend religious services regularly, it's a 2-1 chance you vote Republican

If you never go, it's a 2-1 margin you vote along Democrat party lines.

Pew Research Center for the People & the Press:
People who frequently attend religious services lean 63-37% for President Bush

People who never attend lean 62-38% toward Democrats.

Notable exception among Democrats is Lieberman, who frequently invokes God, casts policy issues in moral terms, and won't campaign on the sabbath. Reminiscent of Bush, actually.

Howard Dean, on the other hand, says he prays privately, but quit his Episcopalian parish over a dispute about a bike path (a bike path? No wonder he doesn't want voters to vote about guns, God, or gays).

The schism apparently began in the 60's, conservative Democrats pulled away in the late 70's when they began to feel uncomfortable, and the Moral Majority helped it along in the 80's. Democrats became uncomfortable and "reacted by pulling away from public discussion of religion."

The article makes sense, doesn't it? Kind of like those studies where scientists go and prove something, even though everyone already knew it. But now we have proof. ...um....yay....
 
sleekjet
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:32 am

I have yet to find a Democrat at my congregation (600 members). I would imagine that many are Independents who end up voting Republican on all state and federal elections.
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
zak
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:36 am

religion is the root of almost all evil in the world.
thanks for further strenghtening that point
10=2
 
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yyz717
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:46 am

Lieberman is Jewish, so he is not an effective counterargument that Democrats are more non-religious....since overwhelmingly Jews are Democrat.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
aloges
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:48 am

"The article makes sense, doesn't it? Kind of like those studies where scientists go and prove something, even though everyone already knew it. But now we have proof. ...um....yay...."

Oh the enthusiasm...!!!! ROTFLMAO!  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up  Laugh out loud  Laugh out loud  Laugh out loud
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flyCMH
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:55 am

Is this the complete article? What was the sample size? How was the poll conducted? What's the MOE? The "statistics" mentioned by this article barely count as facts if the processes they used to reach their conclusion are not published along with the article.
 
Marco
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 7:32 am

religion is the root of almost all evil in the world.
thanks for further strenghtening that point


Ignorance is bliss  Big grin

Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
lehpron
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 7:56 am

"religion is the root of almost all evil in the world."

Dude it is the people who are obsessed with those around them and scapegoat their religion in the process. It is kind of like the old saying, "Believing in a rumor keeps it alive." If people believe in something and they act towards or for it, their actions are their responsibility and not the religion's because it can br interpreted differently by different people and thus different actions. Is the religion still to blame for one action and not all?

Let's be hypothetical: Say someone you like who's religion does not allow outside religion dating or marriage, but she/he wants you. Is that "the evil in the world"?
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
zak
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:13 am

@marco
i think all the religions trying to tell people what to do and what not are ignorant. the claim of being right that is genuine to most religions usually goes hand in hand with things that do lead to wars etc. look at the current situation in north ireland. or just take a look into history books and see that most major wars since the days of old egypt were either waged due to beliefs by competing sects or heavily influenced. you can even see the nsdap in ww2 era germany as a sect who had a set of their own belief's etc.
in general religion and sects are the same thing in my opinion.
i think reading a history book and also looking at the current situation from ME to india/pakistan to the balkans proves that i am right. of course there are religions who were never a source of violence like the tibetian bhudism etc.
but sadly christians and muslims have both caused alot of problems in the world. i think no religion has had killed as many people as christianity and its missionary idea of telling people what to believe.

@lehpron
i actually had a similar case recently with a girl from a catholic family. we broke up shortly cause i dont really want to hear all the stuff on how you go to heaven after you die for a prolonged period of time. its all nonsense in my opinion. let everyone believe what they want as long as they dont bother other ppl with their believes.
10=2
 
zak
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:17 am

one thing i forgot regarding the original point:
religion is especially bad when it starts affecting the governmental processes of countries. of course its absolutely normal when you have a democracy that there are pro religion x ppl running for official positions, however personally i think its a bad trend for the usa. everyone is rightfully complainng about the muslim states run by religious motives, and i dont want to see a country with that much power turn into a religious nation for the sake of the rest of the world.
10=2
 
KRIC777
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:51 am

Zak, I sympathize with your view to an extent, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that religions are the root of almost all the evil in the world. In fact, as we all know, almost all religions prescribe living a life of peace, selflessness and non-violence. I think where they go wrong is by teaching their followers that their belief system is the ABSOLUTE and ONLY 'correct' one, and that all others, by definition, must be incorrect and therefore (by extension) stamped out...although they mostly don't advocate violence as the means to that end.

What would help is if the major religions of the world would agree to acknowldge each other as equally valid (if different) sets of answers to the same fundamental questions. But as long as Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc. portray themselves as the only possible correct ideologies.. I see little hope for things to change.



 
Marco
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:10 pm

but sadly christians and muslims have both caused alot of problems in the world. i think no religion has had killed as many people as christianity and its missionary idea of telling people what to believe.

Sadly, you don't know what you're talking about. If you had the slightest idea about Christianity, you wouldn't have said this. Sure, there have been zealots who abused the religion, but many other religions have had the same problem. Also, athiests (such as Stalin) caused the deaths of millions, maybe we should start using athiests as scapegoats?  Insane
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
david b.
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/id B.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:45 pm

I think that being an atheist is the best thing to be. You live your life and you don't have to conform to a bunch of rules created thousands of years ago.

Also, you don't have to waste time worshipping and asking for forgiveness.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
zak
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:49 pm

actually marco, i said religion and sects. and to me stalin was a leader of just another sect that tried to lay their believes upon other people forcefully. so he just falls into the same category. i dont look at it as religion in the "classic" way, especially since the definitions vary greatly between different continents. you have a bunch of people who believe something they at some point in history made up, and now try to sell it more or less forcefully to the rest of the world or want the society they live in start accepting into their believes, you have a group of people that are a sect, who will if there are enough people in a certain area be called religion there.
for example you would have the mormons refer to themselves as relgion in utah whilst they might be called sect in other parts of the world. so yes even if someone does not believe in a whatever entity that is god, he can still be in a sect that does bad things. and that is where stalin falls in just like hitler did.
and regarding peace promoting religions? that is true for a few religions like tibetian bhuddism and some other religions, but just because for example christianity is now politically correct in some aspects, doesnt mean it wasnt a war mongering religion for a thousand years.
where would europe be without philosophy pulling through the enlightenment? im glad they did because in the current generation church doesnt matter to people anymore since it created a post modern society. to avoid being totally obsolete church in europe has decided to adapt and counsel with abortion issues etc.
i think thats a good thing and i think that societies in europe have gained alot from going away from spiritual issues towards progressive views of the world.
and its obvious to me that such a thing as a thing on a broad basis such as the enlightenment should have taken place in other parts of the world aswell.
and today we see the foundations of the usa set by people heavily influenced by european enlightenment such as jefferson, washington, franklin and paine getting torn apart by religious bigots such as john ashcroft.
and thats not a good thing. religion strikes again.
10=2
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:02 pm

Zak-religion isn't the problem: it's those who pervert and twist religion for worldly gain and power who are the problem, not the actual faith.
 
JetService
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:11 pm

Also, you don't have to waste time worshipping and asking for forgiveness.

David b. obviously isn't married.
"Shaddap you!"
 
777YYC
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:15 pm

Proper heading:

Fundamentalists are Overwhelmingly Republican

More liberal Christians don't feel the need to tell others how to live their lives.

It's rather odd that the Republicans are the party of the more devout; I always thought that Christianity stood for peace, love, harmony and taking care of the needy.

---------------------



 
JetService
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:38 pm

More liberal Christians don't feel the need to tell others how to live their lives.

First of all, being liberal or conservative religiously does not corrolate with being liberal or conservative on civic issues so I don't see a point to that comment. Besides, who says not telling others how to live is 'liberal'? I've seen both lefties and righties telling people how to live with much zeal.
"Shaddap you!"
 
zak
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:44 pm

"it's those who pervert and twist religion for worldly gain and power who are the problem, not the actual faith."
exactly. and thats the majority of the people. history has proven that over and over.
10=2
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:51 pm

exactly. and thats the majority of the people.

Wrong, it's been a small, small minority of people. Over the centuries, most people with power, or the lust for power, have been a select few, and it is they, looking to subjugate people and wield power in the name of a faith, who are responsible, not the unnamed, faceless masses who just want a better, more peaceful life.

That's where you and other anti-faith zealots are wrong. It's the few, not hte many who have corrupted faith. Just as people like Hitler, Stalin, Pot, Zhe Dong, and others, who have used secular power to dominate and brutalize human beings, so is it the same with those who twist and pervert faith. OBL is a great modern-day example.
 
777YYC
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:56 pm

I was refering to social liberals, not right vs. left. My point is that fundamentalist Christians want to make everybody live according to selective literal Biblical interpretations. What liberal Christians do (or don't do) in their personal lives, they don't feel the need to force others to do (or not do) through law. Unconstitutional "sodomy" laws are a prime example.



-----------------------


 
MD-90
Topic Author
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 2:18 pm

FlyCMH, I suggest you look up the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press and see how they do their polls, that's all I can say. It was a newspaper article, not a scientific paper, so it didn't say how the poll was conducted. And no, it's not the complete article, I copied from the Huntsville Times and you can't put the whole article on this webpage anyway due to copyright restrictions by a.net and Knight Ridder.

777YYC, the article included all religious services, not just Christian churches.

Zak, the most heinous mass murders committed in history have been done by atheists and you know it. 65 million murdered in China. 20 million (at least) murdered, shot, or starved to death in the USSR. 6 million gassed and otherwise killed in Germany. Mao, Lenin/Stalin, and Hitler were all atheists.

Besides, that's not on-topic anyway.
 
JeffM
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 2:29 pm

More liberal Christians don't feel the need to tell others how to live their lives.

Just how to spend their money..

 Smile
 
777YYC
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 3:24 pm

Just how to spend their money...


That goes back to my motto about how neo-liberal (extreme deregulated economy) economics misses the point of "freedom": "There is no liberty without social justice". But that's a different discussion.
What do you value more, money to live lavishly while others suffer or the freedom to have consensual sex?  Big thumbs up


Edit:

Remember who is running up huge deficits? Hint: It ain't a Democrat.

------------------



[Edited 2003-12-01 07:42:15]
 
ussherd
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 7:14 pm

We all know that terrible things have been done in the name of God and religion. Awful things have also been done by atheists. Great things have been done by religious people. For example, slavery was abolished at the height of the British Empire due to a movement instigated by deeply religious Christians. It has been estimated that abolishing slavery at that time had the same economic impact as abolishing the arms trade would have today. Imagine! Many non-religious people have also contributed to the well being of humanity - I believe the "fathers of the enlightenment" were atheists. This leads me to my point...

Religion is not the root of all evil. Human nature is the root of all evil. You could ban all religion and philosophies and some human beings would still find something to fight about. Some people would still be selfish, cruel, hateful, arrogant, unpleasant & rude. Other people would still be kind, helpful, tolerant, loving.... you get my drift. Like any other institution, a religious group is only as good as the people that form a part of it. If people lived up to the principles of Christianity (as I understand them) or if people lived up to the ideals of "freedom, equality and fraternity" the world would be a better place. Unfortunately, some people take advantage of the enormous loyalty that faith, race, culture, nationality can inspire to manipulate people for their own ends. But the fact remains that for most Christians (I speak about the group of people I know) church and religion is a source of stability and comfort and not a source of dissent and hatred.

[Edited 2003-12-01 11:16:18]
Cada loco con su tema...
 
ussherd
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Mon Dec 01, 2003 7:26 pm

Zak

The Northern Irish conflict is not a religious conflict. It's a political and ethnic conflict. Unfortunately, the religious and ethnic/political divisions overlap and the hardliners on both sides exploit this to suit their own agenda. This is a historical problem that dates back more than 400 years, has its roots in historical injustices and is kept alive by ignorance and fear.
Cada loco con su tema...
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:43 pm

I wonder how many republicans feel Dubya is doing gods work in Iraq ??? I'll bet a lot do. I wonder how many Christian republicans feel that disasters (natural and man made) happen because god is mad at us ??? One of the biggest differences between Rep's/Dem's is most Democrats don't like mixing religion and government.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Matt D
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RE: Religion In The US Vastly Splits Rep/Dem

Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:01 pm

The only difference between most Democrats and Republicans:


The GOP wants a small government in your wallet, but a big one in your bedroom.


The Dems want a small government in your bedroom, but a big one in your wallet.

Take your pick.  Insane

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