Matt D
Topic Author
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:35 pm

I sometimes find myself wondering that very question. I'll come back to that in a minute. But a more important question I want to ask is: who should I support for President in 2004?

Although I've been a lifelong Republican, I cannot and will not vote for Bush this time around. Here's why.


Although I'm sure he is a decent and honest man personally, IMO, his administration has been a disaster. Also, it is my opinion that John Ashcroft (a man who lost an election to a corpse) is a very bitter man and has an axe to grind over God knows what.

I also hold the opinion that Don Rumsfeld is suffering from a Napoleon complex, if not outright "little dick" syndrome. I've never seen a man with a bigger chip on his shoulder or a contemptuous view of humanity.

Those two, I want to see thrown out at all costs. Between them, and Bush's creation of the TSA and Homeland Security agencies, they have absolutely eviscerated and decimated the Constitution and our Civil liberties.

Personally, I don't see what either of those two agencies have done other than create two more bloated and inefficient bureaucracies and create this illusion of "safety". And why is it that every time a new poll comes out that says Bush's approval ratings are down, is a new "terror alert" issued, stating that another Chernobyl type accident or 9/11 catastrophe imminent? Then a few days go by, nothing happens, and it's back to normal.

This coming from the party of "Freedom and Courage" and "smaller government".

Although I am a huge supporter of the Capitalist system, the amount of nepotism, corruption, and cronyism that is being emitted from this Administration is reeking like a beached catfish on an August afternoon.

and don't even get me started on the latest trend of corporations moving jobs over to countries where they don't even have a customer base.

9 million people have lost work since Bush has taken office.

9 million.


I realize that he is not directly responsible for this mess-I blame greedy and shortsigted and inept Management and stockholders more than anything else, as well as inevitable downturns that are a part of our system-but Bush has done little or nothing about it. His Laissez-Faire approach to the economy while simultaneously creating a de facto dictatorship, I have a real problem with.

That being said however, I remain vehemently opposed to any kind of Social programs. I don't think that anyone is entitled to anything that they didn't earn.

I have a healthy and frequent sex life with my loving girlfriend, I understand the importance of a healthy sex life and the connection between that and overall mental and physical health, but I still bristle whenever I see a risqué TV show or magazine picture. I also am not too keen on sex education in schools.

As for abortion, I'll just let the protestors whack each other with their signs and mail their letter bombs back and forth and leave it at that.

As for gay "rights", I am still on the fence. On one hand, I feel that we should "live and let live". Also, given the fact that since the 'traditional' family has decayed to the core in the last generation, gay couples couldn't possibly screw things up worse than we "straights" have. But on the other hand, I do believe in God and, well......we all know how He feels about Gays.

I guess the only issue I have with gays is the fringe view-that is the whole in your face "We're queer and we're here"....."you have to accept us but we don't have to accept you" mentality.

I also firmly believe that hemp should be legalized and the legal drinking age brought down to age 18. Either that, or the Age Of Adulthood moved to 21.


So getting back to the original question of this topic: who can I support next year? Given the fact that the country is split almost perfectly down the middle in terms of political ideology, I have one of two choices: I can vote for Bush, despite the fact that I do not have any support for him due to the fact that the country has gone straight down the commode since he's taken office. So does this mean that I may be at least on some level, a "closet" Liberal?

But on the other hand, I don't want to get mixed up with the Socialized Whatever Is Good, Affirmative Action, Bra Burning, and Tree Hugging crowd, which collectively make up the Other Side either.

I certainly don't want to NOT vote.

But I just don't know what to do.
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:36 pm

You listen to the main stream media WAY too much.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
Matt D
Topic Author
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:38 pm

You couldn't possibly have read and understood what I'm saying in that short of time.

Any serious replies?
 
covert
Posts: 1507
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 1:02 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:44 pm

Too long for me to read, but more power to you!

covert
none
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:45 pm

Matt D, it seems as though you have become the truest form of Liberal: A moderate. One who doesn't care which side of the fence he has to be on because "that's what republicans/democrats do." One who will think outside the boundaries of his own party and look to himself and his ideals to make decisions in a smart and calculated process. Congradulations, you have made my respected users list.

DLKAPA
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
avt007
Posts: 1989
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2000 4:51 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:46 pm

Matt D- this is the age of short attention spans, and when faced with long posts, many people, (myself included sometimes) just can't be bothered to decipher it all. So maybe you ought to make short posts on one subject, not long, rambling ones as above. Just a friendly suggestion.....
 
sleekjet
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2001 1:35 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:00 pm

Matt: If indeed you believe in God, commit yourself to your wonderful woman and marry her! Start a "traditional" family and experience the joy that it brings!
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:05 pm

Excuse me while I clean up the vomit after reading that last post....

OK, done.

Matt. Here's the problem: you're too hung up on labels. Nothing is black or white. Just because you have some beliefs that have traditionally been associated with "liberalness" doesn't really mean anything. It just means those are your beliefs. And you need to prioritize what issues are most important to you and support the candidate, regardless of party affiliation, that most closely aligns with those issues. That's what I try to do.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
vafi88
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 10:32 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:29 pm

MattD - you're not a closet democrat... You're a republican who sees something other than *oh he's a republican - so I'll vote for him* (much like B757300)

You look at his administration, and then make your pick.

Mo powa to ya!
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
777YYC
Posts: 702
Joined: Wed May 03, 2000 10:46 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:29 pm

That would plant you firmly in the Libertarian-Right area of the political compass. The neo-con takeover of the Republican Party has moved it firmly into the Authoritarian-Right.
Me being Libertarian-Left, we see pretty close on social issues but miles apart on economic issues.
You'd probably be best off with the Libertarian Party. If not, vote for Clark or Dean.  Big thumbs up
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:22 pm

Matt D:
You’re not a closet liberal; you’re a God damn liberal!  Laugh out loud

Just kidding! Big grin

Seriously though, you are an independent thinker that's above falling in line with the W Bush administration. I am not sure if the label 'conservative' is appropriate for George W Bush. As you pointed out above, W Bush has increased the size of government and has increased government spending. Doesn’t that contradict conservative values?

There are many Republicans that think like you but you don't hear too much about them. In fact, there is a Republican challenging W Bush in the GOP Presidential primaries and he is also a Texan. Congressman Ron Paul is disgusted with W Bush for the exact reasons you pointed out above.
He doesn't have a chance in hell of winning or even getting attention but I would like to see how many GOP voters will break ranks.
Hell I'd vote for the guy just for having the balls to speak out against King George and carrying the torch of true conservatism. I am uneasy with selective conservatism and selective liberalism.

Keep in mind, Howard Dean isn't a 'Bra Burning, Tree Hugging type' and he supports the 2nd. Amendment. If Dean were to become President, I doubt he will push a leftist social agenda that conservatives fear.
Howard Dean nor Wesley Clark would govern like dictators nor full their cabinets with nuts with chips on there shoulder.

God will forgive you for voting Democrat Matt D. Big grin
Bring back the Concorde
 
StarAC17
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RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:32 pm

Matt,
I would suggest you vote for Wesley Clark if he gets the dem nomination, although I'm not sure he will. I know you want to vote next November but the dems are so unorganized that if someone like Kerry wins it might be best not to vote in 2004 unless you really want to vote for Bush which I don't think is that good of an idea as speaking as someone from another country he appears really dangerous.

Its all up to you who your vote for come Nov 2004. Big grin
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
zak
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:41 pm

finally a real republican. i applaude your posting since people like you are the genuine conservative spectrum before neo conservatives were able to use the right wing as tool to their goals under the token of democracy. you should support ron paul and encourage other republicans to oppose the bush dicatorship on the gop. a healthy democracy needs a strong opposition in the ruling party and a strong opposing party. i hope there will be more people like you openly voicing their opinions  Smile and uh vote whatever you support, dont look at the party book.
10=2
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:55 pm

It would be great if the two major parties here in the U.S. were Democratic and Libertarian. Then I'd cross party lines more often.
Abraham Lincoln would turn over in his grave if he could see what his party has degraded to.

http://www.paul2004.com/


Bring back the Concorde
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:48 pm

Matt,

I'd argue that you're a conservative. I too have many of the same issues with the Bush administration that you've outlined. IMO, the GOP has abandoned its core conservative values of smaller government, fiscal responsibility and the rights of the individual.

This being said, I can imagine that unchecked the democrats would do better. I've reached the conclusion that I'm going to split my vote. Republican for the White House and Democrats for Congress. A divided government seems to work best -- perhaps because it is so hard to get stuff done and therefore very little actually gets through.

I believe that left alone, the economy, though cyclical is better off in the long run.

As for jobs - we've got to accept that if we're going to have double digits improvement in productivity that there will be net job losses. Technology is completely changing the allocation of economic resources and how money is spent. Why should Morgan Stanley move its equity research department to India. They pay the employees 50% less and get the same quality reports. Is it the government's job to ensure that the now out of work equity analyst in the US finds a job? I'd say no. Instead, it's the government's job to eliminate the barriers and restrictions for job creation by the private sector.
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
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RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:35 pm

Brother Matt. Welcome to the world of being a moderate Republican. There's not too many like us around. The Democrats still really don't like us, and the B757300's of the world think we are worse than a Clinton loving liberal Democrat, because how dare we not blindly support, vote, and live along the Republican Party Line. Like DLKAPA said, we look beyond party lines when making choices. For most, that's an inconceivable concept.
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:05 pm

KROC, do you really believe that present GOP embodies the principles of conservativism that it was based upon. I think that the Republican congress has shown that it has absolutely no ability to control spending.

Campaign finance reform (a blatant violation of free speech rights) made it through a GOP controlled Congress and was signed by a GOP president.

I really believe that the GOP has abandoned its base. This being said, things would only be worse with a democrat in the White House - at least any of the 9 who are currently running.

-76M
 
TWFirst
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RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:08 pm

>>The Democrats still really don't like us<<

Although I am not a member of the Democratic party, as someone who normally votes for Democrats, I for one am all for "moderate Republicans" (i.e. Northeast Republicans).

Liberal on social issues, fiscally conservative. That's the way to go.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:52 pm

So TWFirst, can I consider you a KROC fan?  Big grin

76M. No, I do not think the current GOP embodies the principles it was formed on, and I can say the same thing for the Democrats as well. I finds myself more along the lines of a Republican with my views, but I also have allot of liberal views as well. Because of this, and the fact my head is not firmly implanted in my ass, I will not strictly follow any party lines completely. I support Bush and his presidency, BUT that doesn't mean I am an apologist for all the errors in the administration like some American Guy's, and that doesn't mean I would vote for him in '04 if I felt the Dems were providing a better candidate. Politics is all about the lessor of two evils, not about who is better.....

In the end, the Democrats and Republicans are all about the same thing...themselves and money.
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
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RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:03 am

You know KROC, I am really getting sick of your attitude toward me. You can't go a day without some post taking a swipe @ me. I guess the rules here still do not apply to the "crew" but only to the little people.

You obviously have not read many of my posts over the years. I have criticized Bush, the Republicans, and others on the conservative side when I felt it was appropriate. About the only thing you will find me supporting Bush on right now is the war on terror. Domestically I’m not sure if we actually did elect Al Gore and you should read my post about the aberration called Campaign Finance Reform. I was very critical of Bush and the Republicans in that thread and in others over the last few years.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
cptkrell
Posts: 3186
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RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:19 am

I dunno, man. This is probably the last place to ask advice on who you should vote for. You're the only person to answer your own questions. Even if the consideration boils down to "the lesser of evils", analyze, and make your own decision based on your own thoughts, not those of others. Regards...Jack
all best; jack
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:22 am

You know KROC, I am really getting sick of your attitude toward me. You can't go a day without some post taking a swipe @ me. I guess the rules here still do not apply to the "crew" but only to the little people.

Do you need a tissue B757300? You see, after you cried the first and only time I called you "Americanguy" paterned after "Indianguy" I dropped it. I know how sensitive you are. In my above post, I said "American Guy's" because there are SEVERAL American Guy's on this forum that based on their posts blindly follow all things GOP, just like there are those that blindly follow all things Democrat. So no, that was not a swipe at you. And my 'daily swipes" on you? I am not sure what you are reading, but put down Paranoia Monthly, because if I gave you a thought a week, much less a day I would be over stating the number. Oh, and slugger, if I consulted all your posts as a whole, my opinion of your views...would remain the same. Critical of campaign finance or not.

And yeah, the rules apply to me as well, too bad I wasn't bagging on you. Next.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 11:44 am

B757300, I haven't read anywhere where you critisize Bush. Not one place. And you're a neocon's wet dream, for all the unbending, zealous support you give George Bush and everything he does. Didn't your profile use to say that the Democratic Party should be outlawed, or some nonsense like that? So don't sit here and tell us you're a critic of George Bush. That's about as truthful as saying that Indianguy is a financial contributor to the GOP.

We need more Matt D's, KROC's, and N673m's in the GOP, who are sick of this neocon hijacking of the party and are taking it straight to Seig Heil Land. Maybe if more voices like theres were to surface in places of authority, the Republican party might be saved from the Ashcroft's, Rumsfeld's, Wolfwitz's, and Coulter's, and organizations like the NRA.

Conversely, we need more voices like that on the Democratic side to rescue it from the Sharpton's, the Mosley-Braun's, the Kucinnich's, and organizations like NOW.
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
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RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:10 pm

MattD,

You might not be experiencing second thoughts about being a card carrying republican. You're just slowly coming to the realization that the Bush administration truly is a huge failure regardless of your political affiliation.

I have never been so disappointed with an American president before. Bush is not good for the US, Canada or the rest of the world.

For your sake I hope the republican party comes up with a better alternative and puts these jokers out to pasture.....at this point pretty much anyone looks better.
 
B2707SST
Posts: 1258
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:10 pm

I think a great number of Americans hold fiscally conservative but socially moderate or liberal views. I go back and forth between calling myself a libertarian or a member of the Goldwater wing of the Republican Party. The fiscal disaster that has been Republican control of Congress is not winning them points. They apparently have this master plan of neutralizing the Democratic agenda -- by enacting all their issues and "removing them from the field." Just what is accomplished by this, I'm not sure.

I would seriously consider voting Libertarian if you feel that disgusted with Bush. I think Bush's failures have been exaggerated by his critics, but there are definitely things about his administration that are worrisome - you pointed out the vast expansion in the size of government under his administration, which is undeniable and inexcusable. I'm not altogether comfortable with the PATRIOT Act and I think Ashcroft is an embarrassment who needs to go after the election, if Bush wins another term, but I don't think he's the Nazi that the left portrays him as.

However, I will probably vote for Bush again because I only see things getting worse under a Democrat. Dean is becoming a lock on the nomination, and he has promised to roll back all $2 trillion of the Bush tax cuts and spend the savings on new entitlements. This would be economic suicide. As much as I sympathize with the Libertarians, they do not put forward viable presidential candidates.

--B2707SST
Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
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RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:16 pm

-Do you believe that the government should subsidize a person's lack of work ethic or unwillingness to better themselves?

-Do you believe that taxes are "a genuinely good thing"

-Do you believe that whites are the sole reason for every wrong in America?

-Do you believe that the environment takes the forefront over human development?

-Do believe in giving a person a job solely based on their race or ethnicity?

-Do you believe that a person who takes the life of another deserves the right to live, or possibly even the right to continue their life in the general public.

-Are prisons for rehabilitation or punishment?

-Should we have open borders?

Answer me those questions, and tell me whether or not you are still questioning whether you are conservative.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Matt D
Topic Author
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:24 pm

Do you believe that the government should subsidize a person's lack of work ethic or unwillingness to better themselves?

Absolutely not.

Do you believe that taxes are "a genuinely good thing?"

If they are spent on legitimate things like street repair, police, and fire protection, then, in that sense, yes. But everything else, cut it.

Do you believe that whites are the sole reason for every wrong in America?

No.

Do you believe that the environment takes the forefront over human development?

I believe in a balance of development and environmental preservation needs to take place. I do not support wholesale development as what is taking place throughout Riverside County, but neither do I believe that every field, swamp and tree should be 'saved' to provide a safe haven for some rare animal that may or may not exist.

Do believe in giving a person a job solely based on their race or ethnicity?

No. This should not even be a factor.

Do you believe that a person who takes the life of another deserves the right to live, or possibly even the right to continue their life in the general public.

This is a loaded question. If it's a justifiable homicide (i.e. a home invasion), then yes. But a person that kills another in cold blood, no way.

Are prisons for rehabilitation or punishment?

Punishment.

Should we have open borders?

Another loaded question. It should be open ONLY TO people that already have a means to support themselves. To open it simply to allow 'those seeking a better life', defined as being moved to the front of the services line, or for that matter, GIVING them services, then no.

 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:26 pm

Alpha 1:
Conversely, we need more voices like that on the Democratic side to rescue it from the Sharpton's, the Mosley-Braun's, the Kucinnich's, and organizations like NOW.

Are you stuck on stupid?  Insane
Look at how little influence Sharpton, Braun and Kucinnich has within the Democratic Party compared to Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Wolfwitz, and Coulter.
The Democratic Parties leadership represents a much more diverse cross-section of America compared to the GOP. From Daschle* to Pelosi, the Democratic Party better represents America.

* Can't be too liberal being a Senator from South Dakota.  Insane




Jcs17:
Ummm, what major political party has those points in there party platform?  Confused
Bring back the Concorde
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:37 pm

Your still against gun control right?

Seriously though, not a damm thing wrong with any of those views.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
bizelite14
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:34 pm

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:43 pm

Well Matt D, I don't think you are a closet liberal. I think you are just testing the waters. It is great to be independent minded. Ideally, we wouldnt have such partisain politics governed by special interests, but unfortunately, that is how the world is working right now. You address election 2004, and my advice is simple. I wouldnt vote for any of those democrats unless the nominee is Joe Lieberman (and maybe with Wesley Clark as a vice president). I greatly admire Lieberman for being a moderate and independent thinker with values and a clear vision for our nation's security. Unfortunately, it looks like Dean will be the nominee and he is just the wrong person to be commander in chief of this nation. I would seriously reccomend voting for President Bush. It is clear that he wants to see this nation suceed on all fronts. His tax cuts help many Americans, including myself, and will get this economy out of the Clinton recession. Also, I dont think the GOP is moving its base, its more like the democrats shifting from a Zell Miller, JFK, to a Ted Kennedy character. Which is not going to work well for them. This year, we had to spend money to uphold valuable promises made to Americans. Our security, healthcare for seniors, and Energy provisions. These three bills are likely to get this economy back on track. Keep in mind, it is Osama Bin Laden's goal to destroy the world economy as a means of getting attention. What better way is there of getting attention if you are depriving people of money?! By voting for someone like Dean or Gephardt, the valuable Bush Tax cuts that have helped ME and so many others will be taken away, and there will be less consumer confidence in our nation's economy. Look at the candidates when you go to the voting booth next year. The political season hasnt even begun yet! This rhetoric coming from the 9 democrats is just some pre-game entertainment as far as I'm concerned... The political season will come in its own time...believe me. This is going to be an exciting election year, and the results will be awesome, because people like you will be voting.

All the best,
Alex
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:47 pm

BTW:

Who says that Wes Clark wouldn't rule with an iron fist.

He used to be a general remember, he had his minions doing his bidding.

And if they didn't they could get a nice Kansas vacation!
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:14 pm

-Do you believe that the government should subsidize a person's lack of work ethic or unwillingness to better themselves?

Do YOU believe, Jcs, that the govenrment should subsidize giving huge raises to teachers in Iraq, build schools in Iraq, while it's policy not to do the same here?

-Do you believe that taxes are "a genuinely good thing"

Would YOU rather see no taxes and no services on any level? What a dumb question to put forth, Jcs. Hardly anyone likes taxes, but some people are smart enough to realize that they're needed in some regard. Talk about baiting people.

-Do you believe that whites are the sole reason for every wrong in America?

Do YOU believe whites are not responsible for much of what has gone wrong int he U.S? After all, whites have run the country for over 200 years, son. That doesn't mean rewriting history; it does mean taking a true, honest look hat history, which you don't seem to want to do.

-Do you believe that the environment takes the forefront over human development?

Do YOU believe that the enviornment should be completely subserviant to economic interests, as this woebegone Administration feels it should be?

-Do you believe that a person who takes the life of another deserves the right to live, or possibly even the right to continue their life in the general public.

Do YOU believe that you have the right to play God in deciding such a thing, Jcs? Should YOU, as a Christian, not follow the precepts of Christ, who, while on the cross said "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do.", instead of the old "eye for an eye" concept?

-Are prisons for rehabilitation or punishment?

Can it not be for BOTH? There are some in prison who will never be rehabilitated, but there are many who have, and, after getting out of prison, have lived decent lives. You, if you have your way, would just let them rot for eternity.

-Should we have open borders?

Should we just cart off the Statue of Liberty, and her saying "Bring us your poor, your hungry, your huddled masses....", and just close our borders like some virultent communist dictatorship, just to satisfy your loathing of foreigners. Maybe we should close them-after we throw a heartless, soul-less person like you out first.

You really don't seem to have much in the way of redeeming values, Jcs17. At such a young age, you're a bitter, resentful, spiteful human being. And I won't tell you where you got that from. You know that. Such a waste at a young age.

Another loaded question. It should be open ONLY TO people that already have a means to support themselves.

MattD, had we been left to that interpretation in our history, most of us wouldn't be here today, because most of our forefathers came here with nothing at all, except hope for a better life, and most of them made a life for themselves, and for us. That doesn't mean stopping illegal immigration, but to put such a precurser on entry is self-defeating for a nation based on immigration.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23349
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:41 pm

"We need more Matt D's, KROC's"

Alpha 1, are you drunk?  Laugh out loud
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3402
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:05 am

I would seriously recommend voting for President Bush. It is clear that he wants to see this nation suceed on all fronts.

While Bush might want the nation to succeed on all fronts I do not believe that Ashcroft, Rummy and Cheney do want the nation to succeed they seem like they are the dangerous ones in the admin. I personally think that Dubya is harmless by himself and I agree with Matt D that he is most likely a truly honest man but has been steered off in the wrong direction. The next president this country needs has to be moderate or I feel that the United States is in big trouble IMO.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Sat Dec 13, 2003 8:20 am

Matt D:
Tell me what you think of this website.
It's a conservative website that is very critcal of Bush/Dick/Colon & Co.
There is a big article about this group in this weeks SF Weekly .

http://www.antiwar.com


Bring back the Concorde
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:42 pm

Matt, although I may disagree with some of your stances, I do respect you. Unlike so many Americans, you ask questions and think outside the box. You are not a closet liberal. In fact, you seem to most fit the Libertarian Party platform: very little government, liberal social policy, conservative economic policy. For the 2004 vote, your best bet would probably be Kerry or Clark. Dean would seem too liberal for your standpoint. Kerry is generally against middle class taxation, and Clark is more of a centrist or moderate that a Democrat.
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Am I A Closet Liberal?

Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:22 pm

some of you people are idiots... IDIOTS!!! let me spell that for you I D I O T S!!! do you not believe that maybe somebody in your family could be on economic hard times??!!! Well to give you a hint, SOME OF MY FAMILY IS ON HARD TIMES!!! you know those stores in your big Suburban shopping malls that sell little trinkets and jewelry, i.e. Claires? and you know how they are just the little shops that spread off of Nordstroms and Dillards? Well... Some of my family would like for christmas nothing more than some jewelry from Claires. Why, Because that is all they can afford. Without government healthcare benefits I don't even want to think where my aunts Lyme disease would have put her. And don't call them freeloaders, either. After my uncle died, he couldn't pay child support, because HE WAS DEAD! very difficult to pay for child support when you are dead. When all you conservatives say "Lets not spend a dime on these freeloaders on welfare," think of my family. And yes, they have jobs. One works nights at a grocery store, one has only been able to keep temp jobs, one can't work, she is still too young, and the other is on a full ride somewhere in texas. So yes, think of the people behind your statements and "Let them rot." Let my entire family rot because they have fallen on bad fortune and need a helping hand.

DLKAPA
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same

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