727LOVER
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Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:10 am

When you think of the other pro team sports, one player is somewhat known as the greatest.

Michael Jordan-NBA
Wayne Gretsky-NHL
Babe Ruth-MLB

But no one player seems to stand out in the history of the NFL. Why is this?
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Alpha 1
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:48 am

Jim Brown. He rushed for over 12,000 yards in 9 season, all of 12 and 14 game schedules; he was a Jamal Lewis-type back, with speed and power, only faster and bigger, 40 years before Lewis; he had a combinatioin of speed and size that hasn't been equaled since. He let his ego get in the way of playing for 15 years, and he didn't have 16 game seasons against watered-down competition. His numbers would have been staggering had he played longer, and in longer seasons. I've watched film of every runner I can think of, and, to this day, I think Browns was the not only the best RB, but the best football player I've ever watched.
 
electraBob
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:55 am

I would add another vote for Jim Brown of the good old (very old) Browns.
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Boeing Nut
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:42 am

Boy, that's a tough one. I agree with the pick for Jim Brown. But pound for pound, I have to say Barry Sanders is up there as well. There is more to the game than number totals. (most yards, TD's, etc) The things I saw Barry do was mind boggling.
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aa61hvy
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:14 am

I'm going with Dieon Sanders he could do it all, I recall he played QB for a few snaps a while back, he is amazing...

BTW: I think Bonds is better than Ruth... IMHO
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Alpha 1
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:41 am

Dieon Sanders. ROTFLMAO!!! He wouldn't even crack the top 100 all time. He was so over-rated that it wasn't funny. He was decent at coverage; a great kick returner, but he was afraid of contact, and therefore gave up as many big plays as he stopped.

Dieon Sanders.  Laugh out loud
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:11 am

He was so versatile Alpha, no one in the league right now can do what he did, except for Mike Vick, that's why I think he was one of the top guys.
Go big or go home
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:27 am

He was versatile, but one of the best EVER? ROTFLMAO. Like I said, I doubt he makes the Top 100 players of all time. Being just above average at some of the stuff you're versatile at doesn't qualify one as being the greatest player ever.

 Laugh out loud And I don't mean to laugh at you, per se, but I can probably find, off the top of my head, 100 players better than Neon Dieon.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:59 am

In fact, I'll name you 100 right now, that are better Deion (in no real particular order, just as they pop into my mind).

1. Jim Brown 2. Otto Graham 3. Marion Motley 4. Leroy Kelly 5. Dick Butkus 6. Ray Nitczhke 7. Forrest Gregg 8. Bart Starr 9. Paul Horning 10. Bob Lilly 11. Roger Staubach 12. Joe Montana 13. Chuck Bednarik 14. Sammy Baugh 15. Joe Nameth 16. John Henry Johnson 17. Sam Huff 18. Frank Gifford 19. Johnny Unitas 20. John Mackey 21. Ozzie Newsom 22. Kellen Winslow 23. Dan Fouts 24. Terry Bradshaw 25. Joe Green 26. Jack Lambert 27. Mel Blount 28. Mike Webster 29. Franco Harris 30. L.C. Greenwood 31. Lynn Swann 32. John Stallworth 33. Ray Lewis 34. Lawrence Taylor 35. Mike Singeltary 36. Jerry Rice 37. Lance Alworth 38. Fred Belitnikoff 39. Lou Groza 40. George Blanda 41. Deacon Jones 42. Merlin Olson 43. Alan Page 44. Anthony Munoz 45. Dwight Stephenson 46. Paul Warfield 47. Larry Csonka 48. Barry Sanders 49. Gayle Sayers 50. Earl Campbell 51. Dan Fouts 52. Night Train Lane 53. Gino Marchetti 54. Eric Dickerson 55. Issac Bruce 56. Randy White 57. Tony Dorsett 58. Dan Marino 59. Emmit Smith 60. Jim Kelly 61. Charlie Joyner 62. Ronnie Lott 63. OJ Simpson 64. Rod Woodson 65. Brett Favre 2. Larry Wilson 66. Fran Tarkenton 67. Don Hutson 68. Marshall Faulke 69. Bronco Nagurski 70. Sid Luckman. 71. Raymond Berry 72. Jack Ham 73. Troy Aikman 74. Steve Largent 75. John Hannah 76. Mike Haynes 77. Elroy Hirsch

Ok, I've been thinking for this for 20 minutes, and that's the list I can come up with so far. Anyone else is welcome to add to it.  Smile
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:21 pm

LT needs to be higher, see my D thread.
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Alpha 1
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:38 pm

Like I said, AA61hvy, I put them in no particular order. LT is probably a Top 10.
 
Andreas
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Mon Dec 15, 2003 5:39 pm

Joe Montana, the only player whose name I can remember, and he seemed like a nice guy, but then who really care for American football  Big grin Big grin
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KROC
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:02 pm

Deion the greatest player ever??? Set the crack pipe down, and back away slowly. Now I have seen everything.
 
L-188
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:14 pm

Alpha1,

What the hell are you smoking?

You have Frank Gifford listed above Johnny Unitas! Chuck Bednarik not only knocked Gifford out of football for a year, but a hell of a lot farther down that list.

You also neglected to list Walter Payton.

Can you please bump one of the overreated players off the list for Sweetness

Aikman would be the prime canidate.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
KROC
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:17 pm

Easy Seagull fan. Alpha 1 said he was listing players better than Deion off the top of his head. Nobody is going to get everyone the first time.
 
L-188
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:25 pm

Hell, didn't see that.

If that was the criteria, you could even put Brian Bosworth on that list  Laugh out loud
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727LOVER
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:19 pm

Bob Greasie-Alpha1, you forgot the quarterback of the perfect team/season?  Wow!
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Alpha 1
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:29 pm

Griese doesn't go on for one season. He was a good QB, not an overly great one. And I thought I had put Walter Payton on there. Sorry.
 
flyingbronco05
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:41 am

Joe Montana.


Best Quarterback EVER

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aa61hvy
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:58 am

Montana was great, but no way the best..
--
Alpha- I may have missed them in your list, how about: Michael Irvin and Steve Young?
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Mr Spaceman
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:53 am

Alpha 1,

I'm glad to see that you have Tony Dorsett on your list (at #58.) He was always my favorite player back in the 1980's.

Nobody could run with the football better than him  Big thumbs up .... in my opinion.


Chris  Smile
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electraBob
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:02 am

Alpha 1 --

Somehow, someway your 100 players better than Deion list has got to include --

Yelberton Abraham (Y.A.) Tittle
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zak
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:04 am

kurt vollers, dallas cowboys  Smile
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tbar220
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:22 am

My choice would have to go to Dan Marino, here's some of the records he holds:

Most Career Passing Attempts: 8,358
Most Career Completions: 4,967
Most Career Passing Yards: 61,361
Most Career Touchdown Passes: 420
Most Passing Yards, Season: 5,084
Most 400-yard passing games, career: 13
Most 300-yard passing games, career: 63
Most Touchdown Passes, season: 48, 44
Most games, four or more touchdown passes, career: 21

etc. etc., the list goes on and on. If you want to see these records, go here:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/graphics/marino/athlete/nflrecords.htm

In my book, the greatest quarterback to play the game.

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Boeing Nut
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Tue Dec 16, 2003 8:03 am

Tbar220,

^5 on Marino. I am a die hard Dolphins fan, but I have to be a bit of a traitor. I think Marino is a very, very strong number 2 on the quarterback list. If Montana hadn't had those famous "drives" I would overwhelmingly agree. But I have to tip my cap to Montana.

Alpha 1,

What were you smokin' when you made that list? I want some of that shit man!
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tbar220
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:08 am

Joe Montana is amazing, he is one of the best all time Super Bowl performers the league has seen. Some of the records he holds:

(note, these are all super bowl records, from his 4 appearances)

Highest Passer Rating, Career (min. 40 attempts): 127.8
Most Passes Completed, Career: 83
Most Consecutive Completions, Game: 13
Most Yards Gained, Career: 1,142
Most Touchdown Passes, Career: 11
Lowest Percentage, Passes Had Intercepted, Career (40 attempts): 0.00
- this one is amazing, he threw 122 passes and had no INT

You can find these here:
http://www.superbowl.com/history/records/indiv/passing

They are two amazing QB's, it is a tough call.
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tbar220
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:14 am

Let's not forget that Joe Montana never lost a Super Bowl in which he played, winning an amazing four in his career, earning three MVP's at the same time. Also, he defeated Dan Marino and the Miami Dolphins to win Super Bowl XIX.

So Joe was probably the best postseason peformer the NFL has seen, and Dan was probably the best regular season performer the NFL has seen. Who's better? A very tough call.


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KROC
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:47 am

You all are missing the boat. The Greatest NFL Player was Chad Thomas. Unbelievable skills this guy had. It's too bad that he had bad knees (must be a byproduct of Naval service) and he had to cut his career short.
 
tbar220
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:57 am

Chad Thomas? Never heard of him
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Alpha 1
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Tue Dec 16, 2003 11:29 am

You want someone's name for nominee of Greatest Quarterback? Try Otto Graham. You tell me another Quarterback that played 10 years, started 10 years, and played in 10 CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES? Can't name another?

Again, it's hard to compare eras at any position, but Graham stacks up quite well as far as the all-tme greats.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:23 pm

Amazing, just a day or so after I posted the above, Otto Graham passes away.
He died of basically the same thing that killed John Ritter.

http://espn.go.com/classic/obit/s/2003/1217/1688946.html

Wednesday, December 17, 2003
Graham won seven pro titles
Associated Press

CLEVELAND -- Otto Graham, the Hall of Fame quarterback who led the Cleveland Browns to a championship game in every season he played, died Wednesday. He was 82.

Graham's Career Statistics
Year Com Att Yards TD INT
1946 95 174 1,834 17 5
1947 163 269 2,753 25 11
1948 173 333 2,713 25 15
1949 161 285 2,785 19 10
AAFC Totals 592 1,061 10,085 86 41
1950 137 253 1,943 14 20
1951 147 265 2,205 17 16
1952 181 364 2,816 20 24
1953 167 258 2,722 11 9
1954 142 240 2,092 11 17
1955 98 185 1,721 15 8
NFL Totals 872 1,565 13,499 88 94


Graham died in Sarasota, Fla., team spokesman Todd Stewart said.

He was taken to Sarasota Memorial Hospital earlier in the day with a tear in his aorta, the same heart condition that killed actor John Ritter, said his son, Duey Graham. Graham was diagnosed with the early stages of Alzheimer's disease in 2001.

Nicknamed "Automatic Otto," Graham never missed a game as a pro while passing for 23,584 yards and 174 touchdowns. He finished his career with an astounding 105-17-4 regular-season record.

He took coach Paul Brown's teams to the title game in each season from 1946-55.

"That's hard to beat," said Sammy Baugh, a contemporary of Graham's and also a Hall of Famer.

With Graham as their quarterback, the Browns won four championships in the old All-America Football Conference and three NFL titles. He was MVP of the AAFC three times.

Graham was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1965, and the Browns retired his uniform No. 14, which he wore from 1952-55.

Graham wore No. 60 during the first part of his career, from 1946-51.

"The test of a quarterback is where his team finishes," Brown once said. "By that standard, Otto Graham was the best of all time."

In 1994, Graham was picked for the NFL's 75th anniversary team, joining quarterbacks Baugh, Johnny Unitas and Joe Montana.

Graham and the Browns moved into the more-established NFL in 1950. They debuted in Philadelphia against the defending champion Eagles, and Graham's first pass in the NFL went for a touchdown. The Browns stunned the sports world with a 30-20 win.

Cleveland went 12-2 during the regular season and then defeated the Los Angeles Rams, who had defected from Cleveland after winning the 1945 title.

The Browns lost in the NFL title game the next three years, before winning the 1954 championship behind Graham, who ran for three TDs and threw three more in Cleveland's 56-10 rout of the Detroit Lions.

Following the game, Graham announced he was retiring. But he was talked into making a comeback on the eve of the 1955 season opener and led the Browns to yet another title.

In his final game, the 33-year-old Graham threw two TD passes and ran for two more as the Browns beat the Rams 38-14.

"I liked all his quarterback skills," Baugh told The Associated Press on Wednesday. "I thought he was one of the better quarterbacks in the league. He had a smart head and a good arm. I just thought he did a good job."

Graham later coached the Washington Redskins from 1966-68 -- he compiled a 17-22-3 record and was replaced by Vince Lombardi in 1969. Coaching the Redskins was just a lark, according to the team's quarterback, Sonny Jurgensen.

"He said he was not cut out to coach professional football, but he did it for (Redskins owner) Edward Bennett Williams," said Jurgensen, also a Hall of Famer. "What he really enjoyed was coaching the Coast Guard Academy."

Graham made history as the first player to wear a face mask after being viciously elbowed in the face on a late hit by San Francisco linebacker Art Michalik on Nov. 15, 1953, at old Cleveland Stadium. Graham returned with plastic wrapped around his helmet to protect his mouth.

"That was my real claim to fame right there," Graham said. "I had this big gash on my mouth and they gave me 15 stitches, but I wanted to play."

After returning, Graham completed 9 of 10 passes in the second half to lead Cleveland to a 23-20 comeback victory.

Graham took great pride in his many career records and that they all came with his beloved Browns.

"How many players stay with the same team for 10 years these days? It's a different time, a different game," he said on a visit to Browns Stadium in 2002.

Otto Everett Graham Jr. began setting records on the first day of his life in Waukegan, Ill. He weighed 14 pounds, 12 ounces at birth -- the state record for largest male.

The son of music teachers, Graham learned the piano, violin, cornet and became Illinois state champion in the French horn at age 16 -- when he also led his basketball conference in scoring.

As a senior, he was all-state in basketball and football and scored 20 points in a stunning upset of Dundee, ending that school's three-year, 44-game basketball winning streak.

Graham went to Northwestern on a basketball scholarship and played intramural football, leading his team to a fraternity championship. Wildcats football coach Lynn "Pappy" Waldorf noticed the freshman and invited him to a spring tryout.

Despite missing one season with knee surgery, Graham led Northwestern to two upset wins over powerful Ohio State, then coached by Paul Brown.

He was an All-American in both basketball and football in 1943 and finished third in the Heisman Trophy voting won by Notre Dame's Angelo Bertelli.

After his discharge from the Navy, Graham signed with Cleveland's new team formed by his old adversary, Brown.

"I guess I had impressed him," Graham recalled nearly 60 years later. "He gave me the highest contract on the team in 1946, a whopping $7,500. Going to Cleveland to work with Paul was the best move of my life. I didn't always love him, but he ran the show and taught us the basics of everything."

Graham also won a pro basketball title with the 1946 Rochester Royals in the National Basketball League.

In 1959, on the recommendation of longtime friend George Steinbrenner, Graham became athletic director and football coach at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy. He guided the club to an undefeated season in 1963, but lost in the Tangerine Bowl to Western Kentucky.

During that time, he was appointed a reserve commander by President Kennedy, and later a captain. He also was selected for the President's Council on Physical Fitness.

He left the Coast Guard to become general manager and coach of the Redskins in 1966. Graham returned to the Coast Guard and was the Academy's athletic director until his retirement in 1985.

He is survived by his wife of 57 years, Beverly; three children: Duey, Sandy and Dave; two foster daughters; 16 grandchildren; and four great grandchildren.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jim Brown often incites scorn from some, but he's right: "The test of a quarterback is where his team finishes. By that standard, Otto Graham was the best of all time." Maybe not the greatest, but he's got to be one of the Top 5 of all time. Show me another QB with 10 Championship appearances and 7 Championships. RIP
 
CLEfan
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Thu Dec 18, 2003 1:18 pm

Otto was the greatest ever, without a doubt in my mind. He won many games, and he won his division every year for 10 years. I don't think anyone else has done that. Then after his career, he went and served his nation in the Coast Guard. Just an over all great man, and the greatest quarterback of all time.
 
vaporlock
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Favorite Hockey Players

Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:40 am

P.S.............He was always famous for his "NO TEETH" shots!  Big thumbs up

[Edited 2003-12-19 01:41:55]
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:28 am

Not only did he go to 10 Title games; not only did he win 7. He NEVER missed a game in 10 years, and his all-time record as a starting quarterback for the Browns was 114 wins, and only 20 losses. Find another QB with that record.

John Madden has him as his Quarterback on his All-Time NFL team.
 
Delta767300ER
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Fri Dec 19, 2003 8:51 pm

I would say Joe Montana and this is coming from a Cowboys fan.

-Delta767300ER
 
KROC
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:19 pm

I love Cleveland Honk voting a Brown the top player ever.  Insane
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:05 pm

If you're talking about Jim Brown, KROC, it's just the luck of the draw he's for the Browns. I honestly think that vote would be the same no matter who he played for. He was simply an overwhelmingly dominant player. His own ego kept him for having no doubt he was the best ever. Had he played till around 1970, his rushing totals would still be in tact. I guess being in "The Dirty Dozen" was more fulfilling for him, though.  Wink/being sarcastic
 
KROC
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:06 pm

Jim Brown was in that movie too?  Big grin
 
L-188
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:15 pm

Yeah, but he still wasn't able to outrun that German Machine gun team.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:25 pm

He was in the credits, KROC, so I guess he was.  Laugh out loud
 
L-188
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:26 pm

Yeah, don't you remember he kills Kojak.

"Who loves you baby"  Smokin cool





Apparently not Jim Brown  Laugh out loud
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Hamfist
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Sat Dec 20, 2003 12:43 am

Ahhh...if only Bo Jackson's hip had not been injured. I'll spare you my long lament for his short career, but his combination of size, speed, quickness and power was robbed WAY to early. He would be among Canton's most recognizable residents!
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Sat Dec 20, 2003 12:45 am

I agree with you, Hamfist. He was an incredible talent. But as my dad alwasy said about "if": if the dog hadn't stopped to take a crap, he'd have caught the rabbit. "If" is the most lamentable word in the English language.  Smile
 
KROC
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Sat Dec 20, 2003 1:15 am

Well, luccky for Jimmy B, he was a better football player than he is an actor.
 
silverfox
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:35 am

It would be better to put down the best in each position,eg Theisman was a good QB but could he tackle.like L Taylor, and could Taylor catch like Jerry Rice?
Its a hard call putting one gut above all others when the positions are so defined.
However i would go for
RB Payton
QB Marino or Montana
LB L Taylor
WR J Rice

for starters
 
BMAbound
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RE: Greatest NFL Player Ever?

Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:08 am

I have watched one NFL game ever, and then there was a guy introducing himself as (sorry if I'm wrong) Jefferson Lincoln. And he was from Washington...

That's pretty funny to a foreigner, he just mentioned three of the most famous presidents...

Sorry, guess I'm bored...  Big grin

Best NHL player? Guess I have to go with Mats Sundin or Peter Forsberg...  Big grin

johan

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