United777
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India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:11 am

India and Pakistan will hold peace talks for the first time ever. The history making talks will be held next month.

I can tell you myself being from India, I am extremely happy to hear the news. Let's hope the two countries can work Kashmir and terrorisom out and be friends. Together India and Pakistan can make South Asia and very powerful part of the world.

Farhan Ali
Seattle, USA
 
Matt D
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:12 am

Don't worry. In the end, nothing will change.
 
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yyz717
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:30 am

Together India and Pakistan can make South Asia and very powerful part of the world.

Wonderful? With >95% of their populations in blinding abject poverty?

India & Pakistan could become the absolute best of friends & allies....and the horrific poverty would still carry on.

India is slowly building a dynamic mercantile class & middle class....with or without peace with Pakistan.


[Edited 2004-01-06 17:35:01]
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
jaysit
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:46 am

United777 - I think it is about time. Vajpayee has proven himself as a leader par exemplar, and there is no doubt as to the unseen US hand in pushing Pakistan to the table. However, there is also yet another underlying phenomenon that is pushing India and Pakistan to the table, especially India. The old canards of power and prestige through military might that the old socialist guard saw as a worthy goal have gone by the wayside. For the first time since independence we see a change in India where both the government and the people see the creation of economic wealth as a worthy goal. The Gandhian-Nehruvian model with its hollow military arsenals were just a massive waste of money. If even 10% of what India and Pakistan spend on the military is diverted to infrastructural development, the changes will be extraordinary.

"Together India and Pakistan can make South Asia and very powerful part of the world."

I assume you mean an economic powerhouse.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:18 pm

Vajpayee is trying to occupy the statesmans chair here. Last time also conveniently before the elections he rode a bus to Lahore to "make peace". The peace lasted a few months and then the Pakistanis obliged Vajpayee by giving hi a stellar oportunity to show his "leadership" in Kargil.

Time for another conveniently time little war that will help Vajpayee coast through another election and help Musharraf stop the people fighting him.

So where is peace right now?

-Roy
 
B747-437B
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:58 am

Jesus Roy, put a sock in it.

Vajpayee has done a darn sight more for India this year alone (and its only 7 days old) than your favorite "bahu" Sonia has in her lifetime.

"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
IndianGuy
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:41 pm

And who told you that Sonia is "my favorite bahu".

Not supporting Vajpayee doesnt mean supporting Sonia!

This is just a pre-election stunt designed to show Vajpayee as a "Man of Peace" who tried hard to make peace with Paksitan and failed.

BTW, Bets are open on when the mini-war between India and Pakistan will begin. Conveniently timed to ensure that Vajpayee coasts to victory.

We saw this once before! The Lahore summit followed by Kargil!

-Roy
 
BarfBag
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:57 pm

Its the dude in the hot seat in Pakistan who's responsible for Kargil, not Vajpayee. Unless your latest conspiracy theory is that Vajpayee hatched the Kargil plan with Musharraf when he was in Lahore for the smoochathon with Nawaz Sharif.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:51 pm

No conspiracy theories BarfBag! My question is why now? 5 months before an election? Why didnt he make peace moves all this while.

Musharraf has not backed down one bit from the statements he made last Jan. But Vajpayee has completely backed down from all the positions he took after the Parliament attack. WHY? And the timing is extremely suspicious coming as it does just months before the elections.

As for the cheap attacks on Sonia, the Sonia vs Atal campaign may well backfire as the congress is preparing its own "54 vs 79 campain". A 54 year old "dynamic, energetic" lady who personally campaigned in ALL the constituencies vs a tired old alcoholic who can barely walk without help.

-Roy
 
IndianFlyboy
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:20 pm

What has been achieved by all the action over the last couple of weeks is the pre-parliamentary attack status . Nothing new. What makes this interesting is the way it was done , finally India and Pak agree on something if not Kashmir atleast the economy( Atleast thats what the media says , I have no figures for the business between the 2) . The additional packages which came along was the ceasefire , which I find is an extremely promising step. The second thing which came out of all this is the fact that Pakistan , atleast on paper, has agreed to root out the camps on their territory ,dont know how much of it will be done , but atleast they agreed.
It may be an election stunt , it may not , but the fact still remains that what was done was done very efficiently . Its not everyday that the president of Pakistan commends the Indian PM on his statesmanship and vision.

Indianguy , the alcoholic who could not walk did lead his party to victory in the state elections in 3 states and unfortunately left the lady who personally campaigned in his dust. No wonder the congress is still trying to figure out what the hell went wrong. Guess they cannot figure out how an alcoholic non walker could outrun and outclass an energetic lady.

We can only hope for the best but my personal opinion is to give credit to a person who deserves it , whatever Vajpayee may have done , election stunt or otherwise , seems to be making headway and he definitely deserves credit for it. lets just keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best , whoi knows we might just turn up as another economic superpower.
 
B747-437B
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:38 pm

A 54 year old "dynamic, energetic" lady who personally campaigned in ALL the constituencies

I guess as an Italian she was able to take advantage of IC's "Visit India" unlimited flight pass for tourists! Big grin
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
jaysit
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:47 pm

79 or not, Vajpayee is once again the only Indian politician who commands an all-India following as well as being one of the few Indian politicians who has an international presence. In effect, the BJP (Narendra Modi thuggism aside) has played its economic cards well in the face of rampant opposition from the far right Hindu wing of the party. Whats more, at least the BJP has created a host of alternative leaders to the Congress Nehru dynastic mess.

"I guess as an Italian she was able to take advantage of IC's "Visit India" unlimited flight pass for tourists!"

Ouch ! Thats a bit harsh isn't it? Sonia is after all an Indian national, and speaks Hindi better than virtually anyone in Mumbai (especially the Bandra-PaliHill- Malabar Hill zone). Lets give the woman some credit ! And she looks better in a sari than any of the BJP aunty-jis and mummy-jis do  Smile. Frankly, what the woman should do is open up a chain of good pizza outlets in India. Sorry, but Dominos just doesn't cut it !!
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
BarfBag
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:52 pm

No conspiracy theories BarfBag! My question is why now? 5 months before an election? Why didnt he make peace moves all this while.

There isn't much to read into the timing besides your own innuendo. After Dec 2001 and the standoff, it takes a while to build up behind-the-scenes talks to the level that Vajpayee and Mush could meet openly without slippers flying either way.

I don't see what the whole fuss is about. Its been acknowledged that a lot happened in the past few months quietly before the SAARC summit brought about what it did. It takes time. If you'd rather be suspicious the BJP did it with an eye on the polls, my question is, why can't they ? They are a *political party*. Your assumption that the present talks will lead to another Kargil is just that - an assumption.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Fri Jan 09, 2004 2:29 am

Couldn´t it be that just having closely survived two attempts to kill him, Musharaff might want to better the relations with India, so that he can concentrate on the fanatics in the western parts of his country? Imagine India and Pakistan could come to some accord concerning Kashmir, he could pull troops from the the border to India and use them against the people who tried to kill him?

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
jaysit
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Fri Jan 09, 2004 2:35 am

Musharaff needs the support of US - and Indian - intelligence just to stay in power. He isn't right wing enough for the mullahs and the ISI, and I suspect he knows that the US will launch a preemptive strike against Pakistani nuclear targets if needed. Mush needs a peace accord with India just to stay in power. India is better off with Mush than some lunatic culled from the ranks of the ISI-Islamofanatic cadre.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:26 pm


I guess as an Italian she was able to take advantage of IC's "Visit India" unlimited flight pass for tourists!

I guess "some people" dont need to be "Italian" or need any "Visit India" schemes to take free junkets at their discretion on the national carriers! Family connections help get them into an AI jumbo after which they can bitch about "old India"! These are the people who are "old India" themselves!

Here we have someone who repeatedly claims to "know both worlds" in his own words. But it is amply clear that people like him are still so stuck up in their Pali Hill world that they are as distanced from "the other India" as they ever were.

And repeatedly bitching about Sonia is pointless. The Congress talks of the future. The BJP types dwell on the past. "Oh it was so bad, its sad!" before jumping on to an AI jumbo (on a free ticket, courtesy papa) and flying off to New York!

-Roy
 
jaysit
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:45 pm

"The Congress talks of the future. The BJP types dwell on the past."

Hindutva bunk aside, whats the BJP focus on the past? The new mid-term budget looks pretty progressive and forward thinking. But it may just be Mssrs. Jaswant Singh and Arun Shourie. Or it may just be a by-product of the good monsoon.

I am curious to know what the Congress economic platform is in comparison to the BJP, which so far has appeared to have done a pretty good job.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Fri Jan 09, 2004 1:32 pm

Second times the charm, but once again I would ask: Vajpayee has completely backed down from all the positions he took after the Parliament attack. WHY? He was the one who made loud noises about “Nirnayak Yudh”, sent a million troops to the border,and one crack of the whip from America and he was whimpering home like a coward. Pakistan did not back down ONE BIT from the position they took then, but Vajpayee has COMPLETELY backtracked. Another example of his “Geet Naya Likhta Hoon phir usko mitata hoon” attitude. How many times before have we seen this kind of flip-flop from this incompetent boob?


Hindutva bunk aside, whats the BJP focus on the past? The new mid-term budget looks pretty progressive and forward thinking

Ask any BJP wallah as to why the power situation is so bad TODAY and they will instantly point to the mishandling for the past 55 years and other such bunk. Well the fact that power reforms were started by a Congress Govt 15 years before (which have now been run into the grund by te BJP) doesnt seem to matter. Any problems are the fault of the Congress and any benefits that come from Liberalisation are because of the BJP.

Even when they talk of the Congress they talk of what it WAS 35 years ago and use THAT as a reference to bash, not what it is today. In any case their constant invocations of Hindutva and a rabid manisfestation of it is enough of "past" anwyay.

What is the Congress take on economics? The COngress believes in taking liberalisation to the next level placing larger emphasis on Manufacturing. The COngress also believes in concentrating more on Social Indices like Health and Education and leaving Business to professionals. The Govt has no business running airlines and hotel chains and travel agencies. So the emphasis is on a lean-mean government that works with NGO's on improving Social Parameters while providing the framework to allow private capital and entrepeneurs to develop our industry and commerce.

Most importantly, the Congress governs in a Secular Framework, meaning that there would be no place for anti-nationals like Togadia in India. So he better opack his bags and move back to the US!


Indianguy, the alcoholic who could not walk did lead his party to victory in the state elections in 3 states and unfortunately left the lady who personally campaigned in his dust. No wonder the congress is still trying to figure out what the hell went wrong. Guess they cannot figure out how an alcoholic non walker could outrun and outclass an energetic lady.

Before the state elections, The BJP itself said that results of the state elections did not reflect on Vajpayee or his Govt. After the victory in 3 states their tune has changed somewhat!

The Congress failed to match the media blitzkrieg put up by the BJP. Also the COngress was hampered by lack of allies while the BJP had support of parties like Samata and even the SP! All that has changed. The Working Committees have been reconstituted and more dynamic youngsters are being inducted. A media campaign is being planned and put into action. And if the congress decides to raise the issue of how Vajpayees foster son managed to acquire 2 dozen hotels in the past 5 years, and the corrupt deals between Advani’s daughter and certain media houses, things should get even more interesting! And Pramod Mahajan’s tales of corruption would require more a library and not just a White Paper!

Lets face it, The Congress of today is a very different political animal while the BJP has metamorphosed into a grotesque version of yesterdays Congress.

Vajpayee has every reason to be worried. Last elections he had all the allies. This election most have deserted him and are flocking to the Congress. Take a look at the long list of allies who have deserted the communal NDA: The National Conference in Kashmir, the Dravidian block led by Karunanidhi in TN even the Bengali tigress Mamata who is planning to leave by this month end! The NCP has also refused to ally with the BJP. One key factor that the congress-bashers forget is that Sonia has herself said umpteen times and especially in her talks with allies now, is that the question is not of her becoming PM. Only a person acceptable to the Secular Coalition will become PM. And there are other leaders in the Congress who can take on that responsibility. Manmohan Singh, Shiela Dixit and others. Last time the secular forces did not fight together and even fought against each other benefiting the BJP. This time they have gotten together. What is important now is to get together, form a common programme and fight the communal BJP together.

Congress faced the anti-incumbency factor the last time in the 3 states. Now the shoe is on the other foot. See the desperate sops handed out by the NDA govt yesterday? They were drafted and handed out in a hurry before the EC steps in to stop the goodies from being handed out. It shows the fear, the desperation within the BJP. The so called peace deal is all hogwash! This is merely an attempt to put another fake feather in Vajpayees cap before showing his face to the electorate.

BTW, bets are still open on how long this Peace is going to last and when another “Operation Parakram” will start!

 
airmale
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:51 am

The best solution is to allow Kashmir to become an indepent new country, because I'm in no favour of any kind of war for any purpose, we the ordinary people will suffer due to the ego and arrogance of two leaders and their cronies.
.....up there with the best!
 
jaysit
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:56 am

"COngress also believes in concentrating more on Social Indices like Health and Education and leaving Business to professionals. The Govt has no business running airlines and hotel chains and travel agencies. So the emphasis is on a lean-mean government that works with NGO's on improving Social Parameters while providing the framework to allow private capital and entrepeneurs to develop our industry and commerce."

Sounds good. But hardly a platform that will bring in votes in Jharkhand District No. 778.

Btw, how does Sharad 10% Pawar fit into all of this? King maker? Crook par exemplar?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
kilavoud
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:12 am

West and East Germany have soldered together again.

Why shouldn't India and Pakistan do the same ?

The British have decided to separate India in two countries, and many families have suffered of this splitting.

Are the British still ruling in South India ?

I think it would be intelligent to solder two nations who are feeling the same way : India and Pakistan. Such a reunification would cock a snook at there Age-Old Rulers and solve many problems.

Cheers. Kilavoud.
 
kilavoud
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:14 am

West and East Germany have soldered together again.

Why shouldn't India and Pakistan do the same ?

The British have decided to separate India in two countries, and many families have suffered of this splitting.

Are the British still ruling in South Asia ?

I think it would be intelligent to solder two nations who are feeling the same way : India and Pakistan. Such a reunification would cock a snook at there Age-Old Rulers and solve many problems.

Cheers. Kilavoud.
 
airmale
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:16 am

I dont think anyone is aiming for reunification, and no Pakistani wants it for sure.
.....up there with the best!
 
kilavoud
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:48 am

Airmale. Ok I understand. I was thinking so because I remember the talk I had once with an Indian Lady flying from Francfort to Bombay, of Pharsy culture or language. She was living in the Canary Islands and came to India to buy some gold for the marriage of her daughter. She told me that her own family have suffered from the splitting India-Pakistan.

I am living both in Switzerland and southern India and must confess that my suggestion was maybe very hypothetical. But who knows really the future ?

Cheers. Kilavoud.



 
B747-437B
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Sat Jan 10, 2004 6:14 am

India is an inclusive society that seeks to provide a secular home to all religions. As such, there would be no problem with welcoming Pakistan into the fold. Pakistan on the other hand is built on the concept of being an Islamic state for South Asia. It tolerates but does not welcome other religions. For Pakistan to merge into a secular India would mean the complete loss of its Islamic majority identity.

As such, this could never happen.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
kilavoud
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Sat Jan 10, 2004 6:38 am

B747-437B

Thank you for your explanation. Yes both countries have now got their own cultures and strong national identities. Let us wait and see what will happen in future.

Cheers. Kilavoud.

 
IndianGuy
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:35 pm

Btw, how does Sharad 10% Pawar fit into all of this? King maker? Crook par exemplar?

Sharad Pawar could be given a position in the Secular Coalitio Govt. He has been one of the defense Ministers this country has seen in the Congress Govts before and that is a position he could undoubtedly fill.

India and Paksitan can never reunite despite sharing common culture and history. But Pakistan is a tumor in India's side that must be dealt with. Paksitan, in the form that it exists today will never be at peace with India. Either India must attempt to secularise pakistan through overt and covert means or else sort them out in a more appropriate manner. I dont doubt our capability to do so. The Indian elephant may be a slow lumbering giant, but it can be extremely effective when we make up our minds.

India must also support the cause of the Sindhi's and Baluchi people and at a suitable time and place seek to liberate them from their Punjabi masters. Right now, both Sindh and Baluchistan are merely colonies for a Pakistan dominated by the Punjabis. India liberated the Bengalis before and can do it again if she wants.

The BJP led Govt however will only act after getting permission from the rulers in Washington (see Vajpayees interview in the India Today! Disgusting!). Guess we will ave to wait for a secualr Congress-led Govt whose loyalties stay within India to ensure tat our own War on Terror begins in real earnest!


[Edited 2004-01-10 08:37:59]
 
airmale
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Sat Jan 10, 2004 8:52 pm

It would be better to nuke each other then let that happen, in this case I'm all for war.
.....up there with the best!
 
khi747
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:21 am

The comments by this indian is funny because last week i was reading some comments by Baloch tribal leaders and they said had they shared a border with India as opposed to Iran,they would have put these indians in their place.....ironic that he's not only talking about liberating the Baloch but is quite confident of their abilties to do so! Anyways the elephant or the cow or rat or whatever animal they like to call themselves...they can scheme as much as they like, but all provinces in Pakistan are very united and separation is not only unthinkable but not seeked by anyone in Pakistan
 
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yyz717
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:50 am

all provinces in Pakistan are very united and separation is not only unthinkable but not seeked by anyone in Pakistan

If India continues to boom and generates a noticeable economic divide with Pakistan in terms of per capita income....you could see Pakistan disravel as they look at their more prosperous Muslim Indian brethren and demand economic reforms or re-unification.

The biggest thread to Pakistan is not perhaps Indian military might, but Indian economic prosperity which is coming in leaps & bounds.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
B747-437B
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:58 am

all provinces in Pakistan are very united and separation is not only unthinkable but not seeked by anyone in Pakistan

They said the same about Mujib in 1971. The rest is history.

Besides, by all accounts the NWFP functions as a pseudo-autonomous state anyway.

[Edited 2004-01-10 22:00:15]
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
jaysit
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Sun Jan 11, 2004 7:58 am

"India must also support the cause of the Sindhi's and Baluchi people and at a suitable time and place seek to liberate them from their Punjabi masters."

Why?
The cellphone-Bipasha Basu-multiplex-IIM culture aside, India has plenty of work on its hands to liberate those at the bottom of its own socio-economic ladder before it begins to make a nuisance of itself in Pakistan. Besides, if Sindhis in India made themselves into one of the most prosperous ethnic communities anywhere in the world (after losing virtually everything during partition), those in Pakistan can do the same for themselves. However, from what I've heard, there is plenty of intra-Sindh warfare in Pakistan that would make any Punjabi domination a non-issue.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Sun Jan 11, 2004 1:31 pm


Besides, if Sindhis in India made themselves into one of the most prosperous ethnic communities anywhere in the world (after losing virtually everything during partition), those in Pakistan can do the same for themselves.

Excatly Jay! But they havent and there is frustration settling in because of that.

I have many Sindhi clients who have come here as refugees and are huge success stories today. Some of my Sindhi clients proudly say that their community controls nearly 30-40% of the pvt capital in India. I am not really sure of that, but it is substantial nevertheless and I must say a great motivation for others like us!

The level of emotion among them and feeling for Sindhis "back home" has to be seen to believed! 55 years AFTER having fled from there? Wow! The Sindhi's in Pakistan are going to demand an answer as to why they are given such step-motherly treatment. Most of the resources in Pakistan are spent in the province of Punjab, most of the Govt jobs go to people from that province, and most of the Army is also recruited from Punjab: all at the expense of the other provinces. As the Sindhi's see their Indian counterparts thrive in the "New India", they are going to ask questions. Questions which are bound to become more and more uncomfortable.

In the 1980's the demand for an independent Sindh did take root, and there were daily bloodbaths in Karachi by people demanding independence. As for Baluchistan, they have never really considered themselves Pakistani and consider themselves more "Afghan" anyway. The freedom struggle for Baluchistan was brutally put down first by Gen.Zia (who earned his medals there) as well as Musharraf in the 1970's! The demand for a "greater Pakthunistan" (essentially a merger with Afghanistan) has always existed, because that area along with the NWFP province has always been part of the Afghan Kings empire. The NWFP and Baluch fell to the British during their wars with the Pashtu tribes and they held on to it as a "buffer". After independence Pakistna got these areas, but the people have always been closer to Afghanistan than to Pakistan.

It is India's interests to keep the pot boiling for our dear neighbour. Repay them back in their coin. No Not with terror, but with economic muscle. And when they ultimately reach the end of the cliff, we could help send them on their way down!

-Roy
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Sun Jan 11, 2004 1:39 pm

It is India's interests to keep the pot boiling for our dear neighbour. Repay them back in their coin. No Not with terror, but with economic muscle. And when they ultimately reach the end of the cliff, we could help send them on their way down!

Some strong words from a person who spends so much time criticizing American "aggression" and "imperialism"!
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Sun Jan 11, 2004 4:17 pm

Dear DeltaSFO: I do not adovcate invading and occupyng a country 10000 miles away. I do not advocate turning Pakistan into a colony.

Criticiim of American occupation of Iraq has nothing to do with the topic being discoussed on here.

-Roy

 
DeltaSFO
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:21 am

Dear DeltaSFO: I do not adovcate invading and occupyng a country 10000 miles away. I do not advocate turning Pakistan into a colony.

Criticiim of American occupation of Iraq has nothing to do with the topic being discoussed on here.


Oh, on the contrary, I think it has everything to do with your little diatribe about how India should use her "economic muscle" to send Pakistan "over the edge of the cliff".

Clearly, the type of aggression you scream about on any topic related to the United States, is perfectly alright for your country to act on.

If I remember correctly it wasn't so long ago you were screaming about--among many, many other things--America using economic muscle to try and get the allies to support the war in Iraq.

So your logic is clear. If America uses her economic or military might for anything, it's blatant imperialism and aggression. If India does the same, it's fine.

Your posts full of vicious rhetoric have always kept me entertained, but this one is by far the best. Roy, you really are blinded by your ultranationalist views. It's rather like watching the crazy man on the corner preach about how the world is ending to anybody who will listen. A broken record....
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:16 pm

Tackling an enemy that is hell bent on creating trouble and occupying the country to grab its resources are quite different things DeltaSFO!

Ever checked the meaning of "imperialism" in the dictionary? I know You would if you could read, but that really isnt your fault.


I do not advocate sending our troops and occupying Paksitan. I do not even advocate any military action!

 
khi747
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RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Tue Jan 13, 2004 7:35 am

As for Baluchistan, they have never really considered themselves Pakistani and consider themselves more "Afghan" anyway
I would suggest that you stop making a fool out of yourself specially when you have no idea of what you are talking about...The Baloch are very much Pakistani and part of the society in Pakistan
 
IndianGuy
Posts: 3126
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 3:14 pm

RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Tue Jan 13, 2004 3:17 pm

KHI747: Stop being a "fool" and take a look at some news clips:

http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jul/14guru.htm

http://quickstart.clari.net/qs_se/webnews/wed/bq/Upakistan-baluchistan.RzL7_DNC.html

I could go on.


The Baloch are very much Pakistani and part of the society in Pakistan

The same was said about the Bengalis as well, util they broke away. The Sindhis, Baluchi's and Pakhtuns are also itching to get back at the humilation brought on them by the Punjabi landed elite. They are chafing at being treated as outcastes and treated like a colony. As they see things, the British were replaced by the Punjabis!

Only a matter of time before Baluchistan and the NWFp join up with Afghanistan to form the "Greater Pakhtunistan" which they have been demanding for so many years, while Sindh becomes an independent nation.

India must play its cards very carefully. Not getting involved but not hesitating to fish where it can!

 
IndianGuy
Posts: 3126
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 3:14 pm

RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Tue Jan 13, 2004 3:23 pm

KHI747: Stop being a "fool" and take a look at some news clips:

http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jul/14guru.htm

http://quickstart.clari.net/qs_se/webnews/wed/bq/Upakistan-baluchistan.RzL7_DNC.html

I could go on.


The Baloch are very much Pakistani and part of the society in Pakistan

The same was said about the Bengalis as well, util they broke away. The Sindhis, Baluchi's and Pakhtuns are also itching to get back at the humilation brought on them by the Punjabi landed elite. They are chafing at being treated as outcastes and treated like a colony. As they see things, the British were replaced by the Punjabis!

Only a matter of time before Baluchistan and the NWFp join up with Afghanistan to form the "Greater Pakhtunistan" which they have been demanding for so many years, while Sindh becomes an independent nation.

India must play its cards very carefully. Not getting involved but not hesitating to fish where it can!

 
khi747
Posts: 1532
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 6:30 am

RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:13 am

You can continue to enjoy whatever indian tabloids you read back home but im amused by your insistance on something you obviously dont know much about....how many Baloch have you ever known?
My maternal side of the family is 100% Baloch...i have about 50 people who work with me who are Baloch and there is NO such sentiment in them....there might be some twisted minds that belong to your shameful school of thought but it is VERY very much in the minority.....many of the Baloch tribal leaders are among the most influential and powerful people in the country...the current Prime Minister,although not a very powerful one, also happens to be Baloch....Same applies for the Pathan and Sindhi's....they have held some of the most important political and military roles throughout Pakistan's history...
If the you see more Punjabi's in power its primarily because their population is that much more propotionately..
Bottom line...No one in Pakistan wants to divide this nation save for the few traitors one can find anywhere...only sick minds in India talk about this stuff
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:09 am

Farid Zakaria has a good article on the Indo-Pak peace talks in the latest Newsweek. I suggest you read it.

And give the Sindhi liberation bit a rest.

Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: India - Pakistan Peace Talks

Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:48 pm

Tackling an enemy that is hell bent on creating trouble and occupying the country to grab its resources are quite different things DeltaSFO!

Ever checked the meaning of "imperialism" in the dictionary? I know You would if you could read, but that really isnt your fault.


I do not advocate sending our troops and occupying Paksitan. I do not even advocate any military action!


Instead of actually addressing any of my arguments, you take the moral low road with a cheap personal attack. Very classy. It is funny, however, that in the very sentence where you make your snide remark about being able to read, there is an improperly capitalized word, and a missing punctuation mark. Is that an example of your superior literacy, Roy?

So then you don't mind when America flexes her economic muscle? If you truly believe America's actions could be considered acts of unprovoked aggression and imperialism (I'm giving you a lot of credit here... I'm actually allowing for the chance that deep down inside, you know better), then you have demonstrated yourself here to be a hypocrite of the highest order.

I stand by my conclusion. Your logic is this: India can protect her interests by use of economic and/or other means. If America does anything at all, it's unprovoked aggression and imperialism.

And that is no logic at all. Not that any of us expect any different from you.
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