commander_rabb
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Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:39 pm

This week marks the second anniversary in Joint Task Force 160's primary mission in taking care of captured enemy combatants from the war on terrorism.

JTF 160 was established in support of detainee operation activities in Guantanomo Bay, Cuba as the Holding Facility for Al Qaeda, Taliban or other terrorist personnel that come under United States control as a result of the ongoing War on Terrorism.

These prisoners continue to be well treated while their fate will continue to be determined by the United States government. And as the prisoners motto has become known, "Perpetual Vacationers, We aint goin' nowhere" continues to be true to the word, many around the world wonder what acts may have been done by these detainees had it not been for their capture.

So when those who scream that "this is an outrage", there are those of us who are thankful that these combatants are out of business.



 
L-188
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:41 pm

Let's sing a song for them.

That's the sound of the man working on the CHAIN GANG!



Ok everybody now.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
lehpron
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:26 pm

lol. dude you're an idiot to give a damn about them like that. Why don't you send them a truck-load of Hallmarks while you're at it...  Laugh out loud
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
quebecair727
Posts: 318
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:12 pm

Two years without trials; two years without seeing the lawyer, two years held in a prison without knowing when they will eventually come out.

I don't see any difference between between Siberia's Goulag and this except for the nicer temperature.

No matter the crime, a humanbeing deserve a fair trial. I would expect the "FREEDOM LEADER of the WORLD" to set the example on how to treat prisonners in a civilized manner. The Land of the Free and Home of the Braves is showing the world the opposite. Do what I say, not what I do.

I have long admired the great country that is our neigbourgh and I am still. But sometimes, I question myself about you.

 
Scorpio
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:12 pm

Question: Just how do you know that each and every one of these detainees actually IS a terrorist?
 
lehpron
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:25 pm

They don't, US law states that if you help a criminal you are therefore an accesory and just as guilty. They fought against us, and are part of the Taliban, which housed OBL, and therefore they ARE terrorists.

Just us appling our way of justice on another country of people, like the Conquistidors of the 1500's did in early America. God bless them!
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
L-188
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:30 pm

They don't.

That is why there have been a couple hundred that have been released in the past two years.

Just wasn't any reason to suspect that they where terrorists.


Releases from Gitmo......Things the media chooses not to report.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Staffan
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:42 pm

Anyone know what's going to happen to them?

Staffan
 
L-188
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:53 pm

Nope not yet, that is why they are still there.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
GC
Posts: 348
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:54 pm

" They fought against us, and are part of the Taliban, which housed OBL, and therefore they ARE terrorists."

Actually check your facts, a lot off them were picked up off the street or raids in towns, usually on hearsay from tenious sources, or were jsut caught up ina sweep. They deserve a trial at least. Even the Nazis got that and we knew they were guilty.
 
L-188
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:01 pm

Actually check your facts, a lot off them were picked up off the street or raids in towns, usually on hearsay from tenious sources, or were jsut caught up ina sweep. They deserve a trial at least.

A lot of those guys have allready been sent home.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
CPH-R
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:21 pm

They don't, US law states that if you help a criminal you are therefore an accesory and just as guilty. They fought against us, and are part of the Taliban, which housed OBL, and therefore they ARE terrorists.

Good, then charge them with that and let's get over the Illegal Combatant controvercy, shall we? I read that the US were starting to set up the military tribunals that were going to precide over the very very few cases that so far have been decided to be tried. I say it's about time.
 
L-188
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:22 pm

The US is trying to set up a process to make sure these guys are treated fairly, and the world complains that the US isn't going quickly enough.

When you go too quickly that is when bad things happen.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6064
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:26 pm

Yet Saddam is going to have his trial in only a few months? And that's despite the fact that more and more allegations are brought forward (especially from Kuwait - I wonder if we'll see the "Ripped newborn babies from their cribs" charge  Insane).
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:27 pm

I see that "few months" on Saddam when it happens.

Frankly I think that is optimistic.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
VectorVictor
Posts: 384
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:06 am

I don't see any difference between between Siberia's Goulag

Hmmm, you don't? Perhaps you should consider that these prisioners are well fed, well treated, have access to medical care and are for the most part in better health than when they arrived. A comparision to a Goulag couldn't be further from the truth.

But than again no matter what the U.S. does with respect to these detainees, it will never please our critics.
 
777236ER
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:55 am

Let's leave the case of the American held without trial or charge or access to lawyers in Virginia, and focus on the foreign citizens.

These people are classed as POWs by the UN and the Red Cross, yet are not classed as POWs by the US. They're held in conditions in breach of the Geneva Convention.

None have been charged. None have had a trial. None have had access to lawyers.

All this from a country that purports to know more about freedom than any other, and forcefully exports its own brand of freedom to countries it feels deserve it.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
B747-437B
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:04 am

no matter what the U.S. does with respect to these detainees, it will never please our critics

Short of charging them with some crime and prosecuting them with due process, alas no.

Ironically the US has themselves to blame for that. The noble principles that the country was founded on and that generations have fought to defend have been exported to the world who now expect the US to practice as they preach. For the US to act in this manner in blatant disregard of their own fundamental principles is unacceptable to anybody who has ever subscribed to the American brand of freedom.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
777236ER
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:09 am

The US is trying to set up a process to make sure these guys are treated fairly, and the world complains that the US isn't going quickly enough.

Holding people for two years without being charged, having a trial or having access to lawyers is quite a long time...
Your bone's got a little machine
 
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yyz717
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:11 am

For the US to act in this manner in blatant disregard of their own fundamental principles is unacceptable to anybody who has ever subscribed to the American brand of freedom.

Everything changed on 9-11. The US must look after its own now.

If nothing else, this should serve as a reminder to those who would choose to associate with the Taliban et al.....that they shouldn't.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
777236ER
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:16 am

If nothing else, this should serve as a reminder to those who would choose to associate with the Taliban et al.....that they shouldn't.

And a reminder to those who were at the wrong place at the wrong time, those who names happen to be on "the list", and those who just happen to have the wrong skin colour that Big Brother has no regard for freedom, or even its own laws, and will hold you indefinatly without charge, a trial or legal representation.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
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yyz717
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:16 am

and those who just happen to have the wrong skin colour

Stop race baiting 777236ER.  Insane . Its very boring. The US did not arrest the entire country of Afghanistan....just a few hundred suspected Taliban members.

If you're truly concerned about Afghan human rights (as opposed to taking another pot shot at the US), you'll see how much improved human rights are in Afghanistan now since the Taiban is gone.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
777236ER
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:18 am

just a few hundred suspected Taliban members.

Exactly. Suspects. They haven't been charged, tried, convicted and they don't even have lawyers!

Do you condone that?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:20 am

"If you're truly concerned about Afghan human rights (as opposed to taking another pot shot at the US), you'll see how much improved human rights are in Afghanistan now since the Taiban is gone."

Well, lots of women still wear the burka because their husbands want them to, if you're not in Kabul, your life is just as threatened as it was during the Taliban years, and warlords still dictate what the vast majority of Afghans has to do.

Care to elaborate "how much improved human rights are in Afghanistan now since the Taiban is gone"?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:26 am

They haven't been charged, tried, convicted and they don't even have lawyers!

Do you condone that?


What I don't condone is your race-baiting comments that the US will arrest you if they don't like your skin colour.....that was a cheap comment.

As for condoning the arrest of the Taliban members, I have faith in the US justice system...many have been released already.


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
777236ER
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:27 am

As for condoning the arrest of the Taliban members, I have faith in the US justice system...many have been released already.

But many haven't. Doesn't the US jusitic system pride itself in giving prisoners trials and lawyers?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
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yyz717
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:39 am

777236ER....are you going to reverse your comment that the US will arrest you if they don't like your skin colour?

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:52 am

Well that depends, doesn't it? Without a fair trial, who knows why the people at Guantanamo were "arrested"?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:59 am

L-188: "Releases from Gitmo......Things the media chooses not to report."

Just as it chooses not to report incarcerations.

Yyz717: "777236ER....are you going to reverse your comment that the US will arrest you if they don't like your skin colour?"

You said: "If nothing else, this should serve as a reminder to those who would choose to associate with the Taliban et al.....that they shouldn't."

He said: "And a reminder to those (...) who just happen to have the wrong skin colour..."

So do you think that everyone who would maybe choose to associate with the Taliban should be imprisoned at Guantanamo? 777236ER didn't say that the US arrests everyone with the "wrong skin colour" all the time, just like you didn't say that everyone who might remotely think about associating with the Taliban should be imprisoned. It works both ways.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:50 am

So why is John Walker Lindh not at Gitmo? If he was arrested in Marin County for carrying an AK-47 they'd be clamoring for his execution. But because he carried an assault rifle in Afghanistan they view him as a freedom fighter.

And we can certainly prevent "outrages" like this is the future. Simply stop taking prisoners.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
aloges
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:23 am

"But because he carried an assault rifle in Afghanistan they view him as a freedom fighter."

Who does?  Confused I certainly don't, since he was captured in flagranti, so to speak. But many of those held at Guantanamo most likely weren't.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
777236ER
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:26 am

And we can certainly prevent "outrages" like this is the future. Simply stop taking prisoners.

So instead of taking POWs/giving people fair trials, you'll just execute them straight away? Sounds very free.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
777236ER
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Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:50 am

Yyz 717, from another thread:

Not demanding a fair trial for the detainees and Guantanamo merely means that the US deserves the time to properly vet these detainees as being innocent of contributing to 9-11.

But shouldn't the suspects be charged with something, as per judicial laws? Shouldn't they be allowed legal representation as per legal laws?

You don't see police forces holding murder suspects for an indefinate amount of time (two years now) without charge, trial or access to lawyers under the guise that they need the proper amount of time to see whether or not they DID murder someone. Why should this be different?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
aloges
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:53 am

777236ER, I don't think he meant to say that. Calm down, sir, that was way over the top.

EDIT: referring to reply no. 31

[Edited 2004-01-11 23:56:41]
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
777236ER
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:57 am

Aloges, he was implying the soldiers should shoot the enemy, rather than taking prisoners.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
aloges
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Mon Jan 12, 2004 8:06 am

I fear (and hope) you're wrong, as he stated his opinion in another thread: "And most of us in the United States now understand that we no longer have the luxury of pretending that it is not our problem." Having read that, I find it rather hard to believe that Slamclick supports killing all enemies. To me, that statement sounds like that of an isolationist, along the lines of "If we don't go there, we won't take any prisoners." Speaking of Afghanistan, I'm glad the US went there.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
photopilot
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RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:56 am

I have faith in the US justice system...many have been released already.

And there's the problem right there. These detainees in Gitmo are NOT protected by the US justice system. They are NOT protected by the World justice system. Held illegally and unlawfully captive by the American Government which is acting like it is above the law. Whether they are guilty or innocent is almost a moot point. If you are given no trial, no legal representation, no rights, and no ACCESS to legal recourse then I ask you just what kind of JUSTICE are these captives getting? The D.C. snipers had more access to justice than these captives have received at the hands of the United States and they haven't been even charged with killing anyone!

And saying that "many have been released already" is simply a laughable statement showing your total ignorance. Over 660 captives are presently held at Gitmo and capacity has been expanded to accommodate over 1000+ detainees. Number released..... 88 total. In two years only 88 have managed to be cleared and released. Gee that's an average of 44 per year. Guess in the next 20 years or so the rest will finally get to go home.

Oh, and charges laid.....ZERO, NADA, NONE

Result.... The US has no respect, no moral high ground, and is condemned in the eyes of the world. That's a surefire way to obtain peace and safety for your citizens.

Steve
 
commander_rabb
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:59 am

RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:35 am

Result.... The US has no respect, no moral high ground, and is condemned in the eyes of the world. That's a surefire way to obtain peace and safety for your citizens.

And these prisoners have no way of doing anything of harm to the citizens of this country.

If it means no respect, no moral high ground, and condemnation by the rest of the world, I would take that over any terrorist acts these scoundrels would perpetrate. They have not and wont.

Fair trade I would say. And I am all for that.



 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Happy Anniversary Guantanomo Prisoners

Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:23 am

But how do you know that all of the prisoners held at Guantanamo are "scoundrels" and would instantly try to perform terrorist attacks against the Unites States and/or its allies? Maybe some would "feel like it" (excuse my choice of words) after receiving their "special treatment", but that would not be the reason why they were incarcerated in the first place.

It's that part of the story - noone (except very few US military officials, maybe) even knows what crime they are said to have committed, including themselves - that made all the criticism arise, not the part that some of the prisoners are indeed very likely to have engaged in acts of terrorism. Nobody in his own clear mind actually criticises that the Bush administration is trying to protect the United States from terrorism, but many people including myself are criticising some of the ways it's being done.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.

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