Qb001
Topic Author
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War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:13 am

Not that we really needed the advice of an Army expert to be convinced, but I'm sure glad my opinion is backed by such a great expert.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8435-2004Jan11.html
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
JeffM
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:18 am

You can blame Clinton. He cut the military back too much.
 
b757300
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:28 am

Big difference in an "Army Expert" and a visiting professor @ the Army War College. He is a civilian, not a military man. He is also a former staffer for several Democrat members of the Senate. I smell an agenda.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
zak
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:40 am

"He cut the military back too much"
your country spends over 400 billions a year on military stuff and the department of energy(nukes etc). compare that with the amount your country pays for social and educational issues, and someone might argue that there ought to be a bigger cut then what clinton did in favour of social and educational areas.

clinton era:

U.S. military budget in 2000 was $288.8 billion


bush era:

U.S. military budget request for Fiscal Year 2004 is $399.1 billion (more then 15% higher then the avg. cold war budget adjusted for todays dollar)

The total budget request for discretionary spending is $782 billion, 51% of which is the military budget -- $399 billion($379.9 billion for the Defense Department and $19.3 billion for the nuclear weapons functions of the Department of Energy)
The next two largest items are education and health, getting $55 bn and $49 bn (7% and 6.3% of discretionary budget) respectively.

the bush administration plans to increase the budget to over $500 bn by FY09.


and you say he cut it back too much?
i'd say he had a realistic military budget. not too high, not too low. and it was beneficial to the next generation aswell, since he had a budget surplus and not a $300+bn annual debt.
imagine the public education and health system quality in the u.s. if bush would take the military back to 300bn and DOUBLE the funding for health and education. of course quality for most people would skyrocket, but since fox and cnn wouldnt have the good embedded footage of "countries we cant find on the map but wage war against for reasons we dont know" it is really not worth it. after all the shareholder value of general dynamics and lockheed martin are more important then the quality of the daily life of avg joe who might enjoy great education and free firstclass healthcare instead of the newest 1 million dollar cruise missle in the arsenal down the block.



10=2
 
david b.
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:56 am

I blame bush for a war to settle his personal vendetta.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:03 am

free firstclass healthcare

Wrong movie, Tonto. We don't show that one here.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
aloges
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:06 am

"You can blame Clinton. He cut the military back too much."

Looks like you can blame Clinton for just about anything, huh?  Insane
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
lehpron
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:15 am

Well, if Gore invented the internet, then Clinton did invented adultery. Quite convinient.  Yeah sure
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:22 am

What would the republicans do without Clinton ? Bush is an arrogant air head. The people that pull Dubya's stings are the ones that put Dubya up to invading Iraq..... For their oil interests. No other reason. That's why we are there. That's the truth deal with it.......
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
JeffM
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:30 am

Yup, I pretty much do blame Clinton, the facts speak for themself.

Deal with it...
 
DC10GUY
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:34 am

So is Dubya off the hook then ??? Because it was Clintons fault ???
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Alessandro
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:41 am

Well, it has shown that the US helicopters are vulnerable, basically same story
as Somalia.

From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
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sebolino
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:48 am

You can blame Clinton. He cut the military back too much.

Very funny. How much are you willing to pay for the military ? Do you know that your country has reach a record in debt thanx to Bush and his military budget ?


He is a civilian, not a military man.

Bush is also a civilian.
 
Qb001
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:21 am

He is a civilian, not a military man.

In a democracy - and last time I checked the USA was still a democracy - civilians control the militaries, not the other way around. So it is just freaking right that a civilian be allowed to take a critical look at the military affairs. A real democracy never let the militaries run their own business.

And, as underlined by Sebolino, all the men who are leading this war (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz et al) are civilians, aren't they? Even more, Bush is such a civilian that he dodged the Viet-Nam draft, didn't he?
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
JeffM
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:37 am

Qb001,

Check again, your sources are wrong. The U.S. is a Republic, not a Democracy.
 
corocks
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:43 am

Nobody is questioning a civilians right to question military strategy, but his ability to do so. He is not relevant to all the information that probably needs to be considered. The article also states that he has critisized moves by Clinton as well.

Clinton did not have to face the terrorism issues that we have post 9/11. He probably would not have cut the budget back so much either if it had happened in his term.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:01 am

I agree JeffM, since the 2000 presidential elections the US has drifted a long way away from being a "Democracy"
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
bobrayner
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:23 am

Check again, your sources are wrong. The U.S. is a Republic, not a Democracy

This one again? The whole Bush administration regularly refers to it as a democracy, in countless speeches, press releases &c.

What we need is better quality pedantry.
Cunning linguist
 
JeffM
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:34 am

DC10...

I agree. The Democrats raped the legal system in 2000. Something we don't want to see again. You don't change the rules in the middle of an election...glad you brought that point up. 'Some' people seem to need a reminder...

Bob,

You "need" a lot of things ...

Democracy is the process....how hard is this? You guys surely seem to struggle a lot with the concept lately don't you? What is the problem?
 
david b.
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:38 am

The only person who can screw the US and the world this much is GWB.

No other man can do such a thing. We dont want to see this again for a looooooooonnnnnggggggg time.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
bobrayner
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:56 am

Democracy is the process....how hard is this? You guys surely seem to struggle a lot with the concept lately don't you? What is the problem?

Yes, I'm really struggling. Bush seems to be, too:
It is no accident that the rise of so many democracies took place in a time when the world's most influential nation was itself a democracy

A democracy. Noun. Perhaps he had trouble with the long words.

As I said, we need better quality pedantry.

Want to return to the facts?
Cunning linguist
 
DC10GUY
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:58 am

JeffM, Its a system worth dying in Iraq for ah ???
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
david b.
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:08 pm

OK then........500 servicemen to this day have died. Are their families free because we overthrew Saddam?

I don't think so........
who do you believe can save the world?  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up Freaken hilarious  Big thumbs up

And no, Bush can not and will not save the world.

Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
Qb001
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:09 pm

Nobody is questioning a civilians right to question military strategy, but his ability to do so. He is not relevant to all the information that probably needs to be considered.

If the author is so incompetent, or irrelevant, in terms of military affairs, why is he invited to work for the Army War College? Logically, if he's incompetent and works for the Army War College, it means this institution as a whole is probably incompetent as well. Then, since most army top brass go through this college, it means the entire US Army is incompetent, right?

I think it's rather those Bush die-hard supporters who are clearly incompetent and irrelevant here.

Speaking of irrelevancy, we were given a chance to read this gem:
The U.S. is a Republic, not a Democracy.

And your point is?????

Just a quick reminder: China is a republic and not a democracy. UK is a monarchy AND a democracy.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
bobrayner
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:20 pm

If the author is so incompetent, or irrelevant, in terms of military affairs, why is he invited to work for the Army War College? Logically, if he's incompetent and works for the Army War College, it means this institution as a whole is probably incompetent as well. Then, since most army top brass go through this college, it means the entire US Army is incompetent, right?

That's stretching logic a little too far.  Big grin
Cunning linguist
 
Alpha 1
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:31 pm

Great, now the war, somehow is Clinton's fault. Tell me, JeffM, is Clinton also responsible for world hunger? The high divorce rate? The high failure rate of marriages? For gridlock in our cities? I mean, he's responsible for the war in Iraq, he must be responsible for every evil and every bad thing ever to ascend on the U.S.

And you wonder why you have so little credibility among people who have half a brain? Come on, JeffM. You supported the war; you support Bush going to war. At least have the credibility to say Bush is responsible for it.

Nobody is questioning a civilians right to question military strategy, but his ability to do so. He is not relevant to all the information that probably needs to be considered.

Obviously, the War College, who probably knows a hell of a lot more about it than you, disagrees. I'll take their opinion over yours.
 
777236ER
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:33 pm

for our continued freedom jack..

Wouldn't that mean that Iraq was a direct threat to the freedom of the US? I suppose the only way it was is that the continued "threat" of Iraq caused GWB to remove some of your freedoms, but I'd hardly say that was a problem with Iraq.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
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sebolino
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:54 pm

Check again, your sources are wrong. The U.S. is a Republic, not a Democracy.

Jeff, I'm afraid you have a problem of vocabulary.

Republic is a type of governement, not democracy.
Democracy is a concept of society.

Now, do you say that the UK is not a democracy because it's a kingdom, France is not a democracy because it's a republic, and Japan is not a democracy because it's an empire ?

 
Twistedwhisper
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Fri Jan 16, 2004 1:15 am

This is ridiculous. Why are you referring to America as the country of freedom??? Is there any country (in the west) that is so strict on what you can and can't do?
There are for example a number of states where you can't do your wife doggystyle? May I kiss my girlfriend for more than five minutes in Iowa? Can I dance cheek to cheek with a lady friend in Compton, California?
Also in California, Community leaders passed an ordinance that makes it illegal for anyone to try and stop a child from playfully jumping over puddles of water.

Bathing is prohibited during the winter in Indiana, In Kentucky it's illegal to transport an ice cream cone in your pocket. Snoring is prohibited unless all bedroom windows are closed and securely locked if you live in Massachusetts.

Unmarried adults in Arizona who decide to fool around a little are committing a serious felony. Anyone single, man or woman, caught having sex can be sent to the penitentiary for three full years.

And Connecticut still retains an old law forbidding any kind of "private sexual behavior between consenting adults." This odd law makes absolutely no distinction between married and single couples.

So, you think you live in a free country? Wake up and smell the real world, there's a long way until US is a free country, invading the entire world will not change that.... US freedom is a domestic issue, why fight for it at the other side of the world???


And make no mistake, I love the US, I love the people, the nature, the diversity, the cars (even though I care a great deal for the environment), the language.
We have a saying in Swedish that pretty much sums up my views: Baja där du bor. (Shit where you live), it means that you shouldn't spread you problems around...
Read between the lines.
 
JeffM
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:03 am

Surely you don't think Clinton or Bush was responsible for all that stuff do you Alpha? I don't. I don't "blame" as you put it, any president for that. I do Blame Clinton for cutting too much from the military too fast. I think you can understand the difference.

Bush was not responsible for the war. Saddam was. He had the choice to avoid it when the U.N. asked him to, he made the wrong choice. I did support President Bush in taking him out. Yes. My choice, my opinion. Don't like it? Oh well...

I did (not anymore) at one time think Iraq posed a threat to the U.S. and other countries. Seems to me we have taken care of that for the most part as far as Iraq is concerned. Other threats, in other places, I'm sure are being looked at.

Wow, Sweden has some pretty funny sayings! "Shit where you live". How original.
 
Guest

RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:22 pm

Any quack with too many degrees can declare himself an "army expert" and work for a "think tank" and write "books" nobody "reads". Since I started reading more news when I emerged from the cave I was living in about a year ago I am considering going back to reading less news since 99% of what is printed as news is CRAP.
 
L-188
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:37 pm

I personally would have waited until the second term.

But I do feel that in the current world situation the decision to cut the Army from 18 to 10 divisions in the 1990's was a mistake.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expe

Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:25 pm

Another thing to consider. This guy is a visiting professor. To me that means he has no real job, probably some worthless degree like History or Philosophy and is depending on this to feed himself and maybe get a new BMW. Sort of like a consultant. If he did not say something controversial nobody would pay him anything so no new BMW. Just write what this dimwit said off for what it is: CRAP designed to put money in his pocket and get his name in the paper and probably to pump up a book he most likely has coming out soon.
 
JeffM
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:43 pm

People like that "expert" are needed in those think tanks.... What ever reason he had for making the statements he did I sure were justified in his mind. The only way to make sure you are seeing the big picture is to get as many different views on a subject as possible.

One experts opinion is just that... one opinion.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert

Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:49 am

As evidenced by some comments in this thread, it's quite possible the average American's reading comprehension has reached an all-time low.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty

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