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Aloha717200
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Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:15 am

Well, it's getting ever closer to the Iowa primaries, so maybe its a better time to bring this question up than the last time I asked.  Wink/being sarcastic


Checking the polls, its no surprise that Howard Dean is the front-runner of the democratic candidates for president in 04. Nipping at his heels though, in some cases just two percentage points off, is Wesley Clark, followed by Joe Lieberman.

The race is tightening and its interesting just how close Wesley Clark is to catching Dean in the polls, and Lieberman's thrid place isn't so distant anymore.

By comparison, Gephart, Kerry, and Sharpton are much farther behind and the rest stand pretty much no chance of getting the nomination.


So, if we're to focus on just the three front runners of this race....currently Joe Liberman, Howard Dean, and Wesley Clark, which do you most support?


I'd consider myself an independent because I dont vote along party lines, I vote for who I most support, regardless of whether they're democrat or republican. In the case of this election, I'm very much opposed to re-electing Bush.


There's problems with each of these candidates, but I'm curious as to who you lean towards? It's probably a given that Dean will come out on top in the Iowa primary, but which candidate do YOU most want to become the nominee for president?


If forced to pick between the three, I'd probably have to go with Dean, even though I dont like him very much, and here's why:

Firstly, I dont know much about Wesley Clark. When he first entered the race the media was all over him, but now he tends to take a back seat to Dean, and I havent seen nor heard much about him at all recently. And also there's concerns on my part that perhaps he'd turn out to be another hawk, which is probably what this country doesnt need.

As for Joe, I like Joe, he'd probably make an okay president. The reason I wouldnt vote for him, though, is because again I dont know too much about him. And there's also the question of whether arab governments would be willing at all to work with Jewish president. I have no problem with a jewish president, but they might, and that's something to consider, unfortunately.


Of the democrats that stand unlikely to win the nomination, I support Kerry. But I doubt he'll gain the top spot in the polls.



So of the three front runners, who's your pick? I'd love to hear your thoughts about this.
 
TWFirst
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:21 am

Clark has the best chance to beat Bush. But he and his campaign need more focus and fire.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
FDXmech
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:47 am

Actually I think Gephardt would have the best chance.

Clark appears a bit unstable. And wait until he becomes a frontrunner with all the attention that comes with it. I believe he'd blow it.

You're only as good as your last departure.
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:51 am

I think all of them are just cancelling each other out...none of them look particularly "gleaming''...is that the best yall can do?

Bush in 04!

DeltaGuy  Big thumbs up
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
JeffM
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:54 am

They are running out of fingers to point. Like a bunch of grade school boys being asked by the principal .. "who did it...?"

 
Guest

RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 6:02 am

I don't really care for any of the front runners. The one thing that I liked about Clark was that he supported the action in Iraq, but he doesn't hold that position any more. As for Dean and Kerry, they are a little too far to the left for my tastes.

If Lieberman recieves the nomination from the DNC, then I'll vote for him--he's the only person who could do better than the current administration.

In other words, I'll probably be voting Republican.

-Normal,
A moderate
 
Guest

RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 6:07 am

"They are running out of fingers to point."

Exactly! Kerry and Dean are making claims about each other and Bush that are basically counterfactual. It's freakin' circus already.

-Normal

Go PATS!!!
 
JeffM
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 6:15 am

Even the winner out of all this will still get the same view as the #2 sled dog has come election time..
 
rockyracoon
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 6:53 am

I'm still hoping for Dennis Kucinich to pull an upset. I agree with most of his platform and think he's the only candidate that has clear cut views. In the debates he doesn't bs and provides workable solutions to the problems questioned. He wasthe only one not to vote for the patriot act as well the war in iraq. I suggest taking a look at his website if you haven't yet: http://www.kucinich.us/index.php






peace
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:05 am

Wow, I hadnt really taken a look at Kucinich, but that article on his front page just impressed me! Big grin
 
vafi88
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:34 am

Dean would be my pick... followed by Edwards and then Kerry... The other ones I don't like, Especially Liberman.

I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
jcs17
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:57 am

Dennis the Troll pull an upset? I doubt it. He hasn't risen above 5% in any state's polling numbers. His economic ideas are borderline socialist and he would leave our country very unprotected. He would be a better candidate on the Watermelon party's ticket.

It really doesn't matter, the only candidate who could actually provide a moderate challenge to Bush is Dick Gephardt. Edwards is too easily picked apart. Kerry could only win a few Northeastern states and a few very liberal ones. Leiberman is too dull and is essentially a clone of GW Bush (I would actually consider voting for Leiberman).

Dean and Clark are the jokes of the election. If either one win the democratic nomination, Bush could start writing his 2005 State of the Union speech immediately. Dean is essentially the Alpha1 liberal--angry, full of manufactured hate, and he appeals to people like Alpha1. Unfortunately for the Dems, the rest of the voters are so turned off by this kind of negative candidate that it is a completely losing proposition. Now things are going well in Iraq, Dean has no decent platform to stand on. Everything he says rings hollow--the economy, Iraq, War on Terror...etc.

As for Clark--he's whatever you want him to be (as long as it will raise poll numbers) and a complete hot head too. The GOP could have fun with someone like Clark--I mean, he's flip-flopped on so many issues that the GOP could essentially have infomercials about the total phoniness of his platforms. He proved himself to be a total hothead while in the military.

Don't get me wrong, the Dems could pick Gephardt and Bush would still win fairly easily. The Dems have shot themselves in the foot in this election and NOTHING can help them--especially nominating Dean.

In a future thread I plan to show state by state how I expect the electoral votes to be cast for each Dem candidate vs. Bush.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
cba
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:48 am

As it stands now, the Iowa race is in a dead-heat between Dean, Kerry, and Gephardt, with Edwards nipping at their heals. New Hampshire is basically tied between Clark and Dean. Although I think either Clark or Dean would make excellent cantidates (one must take all of the recent negative media coverage they have recieved with a grain of salt), I think Edwards is being overlooked as a very viable cantidate. He's a friendly, down to earth, humble man who could pull a lot of key swing votes in the South. He has also remained consistent on most issues. He, unlike most of the other cantidates on both sides truly understands most average middle/working class Americans. Contrary to popular belief, he is not weak when it comes to foreign policy or homeland security. He has served in the Senate intelligence committee during most of his term which is a great crash-course in foreign affairs. Anyway, he probably won't get elected, but it'd be amazing to see him pull Iowa off.
 
777YYC
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:11 pm

Don't kid yourselves, people, if Wes Clark wins the nomination he'll DESTROY Bush.
When it comes to anger it seems to me that the pot is calling the kettle black. Both parties are angry and fired up at each other. Remember how mad Republicans get at Clinton? Even though he was right-wing to a certain extent.

PS:

Democratic Front-runners is the proper way to say it. "Democrat Party" is a disparaging term.


PPS:
In regards to calling the Green Party "Watermelon", take a look at Political Compass and learn the difference between Authoritarian and Libertarian. Calling Greens "watermelon" is like saying Ayn Rand is the same as Augusto Pinochet.



 
JeffM
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:31 pm

I like Clark compared to the others.

Did you call Clinton "right wing"?

Have not seen any anger from Republicans.... Give us a link if you can..

That is one monster sized 'if' in your first sentence....He has a long, long way to go to win the nod from the Democratic party...
 
jcs17
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:36 pm

Don't kid yourselves, people, if Wes Clark wins the nomination he'll DESTROY Bush.

You want to make a friendly $500 wager on that?

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about or are just an EXTREMELY hopeful person. Wesley Clark has already been torn apart in the media just for the primaries, could you imagine what they'd do to him in the national elections. Like I said earlier, Clark could be picked apart by the Bush campaign with relative ease. One day he's for the war in Iraq, the next day he's not. One day he's for the Bush tax cuts, the next day is not. Hell, the guy even voted Republican in recent elections. He was a proven hothead in the military and his actions caused the deaths of hundreds of civilians in Serbia. He makes dumb statements at unopportune times. But, hell, why am I telling you this. I'm in a betting kind of mood!

Democratic Front-runners is the proper way to say it. "Democrat Party" is a disparaging term.

Uhhhh, right.

In regards to calling the Green Party "Watermelon", take a look at Political Compass and learn the difference between Authoritarian and Libertarian. Calling Greens "watermelon" is like saying Ayn Rand is the same as Augusto Pinochet.

The Green Party's platforms are socialist:

Taxable Basic Income Grants for all, structured into the progressive income tax, that guarantee an adequate income sufficient to maintain a modest standard of living. Start at $500/week ($26,000/year) for a family of four, with $62.50/week ($3,250/year) adjustments for more or fewer household members in 2000 and index to the cost of living.

A guaranteed right to job. Full employment through community-based public works and community service jobs programs, federally financed and community controlled.

A single-payer National Health Program to provide free medical and dental care for all, with freedom of choice for consumers among both conventional and alternative health care providers, federally financed and controlled by democratically elected local boards.

Abolish the disproportional, aristocratic US Senate. Create a single-chamber US Congress, elected by a system of mixed-member proportional representation that combines district representatives elected by preference voting and party representatives seated in proportion to each party's vote.

Require breakup of any firm with more than 10% market share unless it makes a compelling case every five years in a public regulatory proceeding that it serves the public interest to keep the firm intact.

Establish the right of workers at every enterprise over 10 employees to elect supervisors and managers and to determine how to organize work.

Enact a steeply progressive tax on net wealth over $2.5 million (the top 5% of households)..

Build into the progressive income tax a 100% tax on all income over ten times the minimum wage.

Fund Social Security, Health Care, Unemployment Insurance, and Workers Compensation out of progressive income and wealth taxes.

Time to hit the Poli Sci books again, I guess.




America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
777YYC
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:10 pm

You're right, they are Socialists. I never denied that, I see it as a good thing. My point is that it's wrong to equate Scandinavian style social democracy with "Red" Soviet Totalitarianism.
BTW, I'm taking Poli Sci at the University of Calgary next year.

As for Clark, we'll wait and see if he gets the nomination, the corporate media will pick any Democratic candidate apart while giving Bush a relatively free ride.

RE: JeffM

The spectrum in the US is distorted so far to the right that Democrats somehow appear liberal even though they're right-leaning centrists(like Clinton) for the most part. Political Compass has all the Dem candidates except Sharpton and Kucinich pegged in Authoritarian Right. Clinton's most disgusting actions were welfare "reform" and media de-regulation.


[Edited 2004-01-16 07:14:27]
 
jcs17
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:16 pm

My point is that it's wrong to equate Scandinavian style social democracy with "Red" Soviet Totalitarianism.

Abolish the disproportional, aristocratic US Senate. Create a single-chamber US Congress, elected by a system of mixed-member proportional representation that combines district representatives elected by preference voting and party representatives seated in proportion to each party's vote.

That is pretty damn alarming and pretty damn radical, IMO.

BTW, I'm taking Poli Sci at the University of Calgary next year.

Have a good time. I've been waiting to take my Political Science requirement for one and a half years just so I could get the only conservative professor in that department. His classes fill up too quickly--and I'm always too late to register!  Pissed

America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
B2707SST
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:58 pm

According to current polls, none of the Democrats will win against Bush; assuming the undecideds break 50-50, Bush approaches 60%, which is a landslide. Even if nothing big changes before Nov., I think it will be closer than that, but Bush is still the prohibitive favorite. Dean is slipping in Iowa and New Hampshire after a few too many gaffes. Kerry and Edwards are moving up, of all people, which means five candidates -- Dean, Clark, Gephardt, Edwards, and Kerry -- are either inside or just outside the statistical margin of error for the lead in those two states. This is going to be a very messy primary season and I'm sure Karl Rove is drooling over the Dem v. Dem attack ads.

Regarding General Clark, he's been taking a pounding in the last day or two over Congressional testimony in fall 2002:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/01/16/clark_says_gop_distorts_his_testimony_on_iraq/

"The problem of Iraq is not a problem that can be postponed indefinitely, and of course Saddam's current efforts themselves are violations of international law," Clark told the committee. "Our president has emphasized the urgency of eliminating these weapons and weapons programs. I strongly support his efforts to encourage the United Nations to act on this problem and in taking this to the United Nations, the president's clear determination to act if . . . the United Nations can't provide strong leverage for undergirding ongoing diplomatic efforts."

On the stump, Clark also has repeatedly accused the Bush administration of trumping up a false connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda. But in his congressional testimony, Clark said he believed a connection existed.

"It's normal. It's natural," Clark said. "These are a lot of bad actors in the same region together. They are going to bump into each other. They are going to exchange information. . . . I think it's clear that regardless of whether or not such evidence is produced of these connections that Saddam Hussein is a threat." Clark aides said yesterday's attention from Republicans -- RNC chairman Ed Gillespie criticized Clark in a speech yesterday in Clark's hometown of Little Rock, Ark. -- proved that Clark represents a threat in the 2004 election. "It is our job to point out the inconsistencies and untruths by the Democratic presidential candidates," RNC spokeswoman Christine Iverson said. "And this is a big one."

Of course, these statements are hard to reconcile with: "I've been very consistent... I've been against this war from the beginning," the former general said in Detroit on October 26. "I was against it last summer, I was against it in the fall, I was against it in the winter, I was against it in the spring. And I'm against it now."

Meanwhile, a 1995 Dean letter to Bill Clinton urging (gasp) unilateral military action in Bosnia isn't helping the good doctor either.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/14/elec04.prez.dean.bosnia/

--B2707SST

[Edited 2004-01-16 10:02:22]
Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
 
zak
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:15 pm

i think its quite simple. the dems have to nominate whoever can take the biggest chunk out of the conservative voters that would otherwise vote bush.
that is clearly clark, since dean has no chance because he is too left to be voted for by republicans.
10=2
 
L-188
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:33 pm

I still haven't seen anybody that I think can make it happen on the democratic ticket.

That and every one of them is going to have to blow their contribution wad in the primaries.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Superfly
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:46 pm

The Bush/Dick/Colon & Co. has a tight grip on the media and will do everything to keep those GOP bastards in charge.

My heart is with Dean, Gephardt, Kucinich, Kerry and Braun (now gone) but my vote will be with Wesley Clark.
Considering how stupid the American public has become thanks to the spoonfed garbage the mainstream press feeds the masses , I have to go with the candidate that is closest to Bush but knows how to read, write and served in the military.

Dean may be the McGovern of today if he gets the Democratic nomination.
Clark could be the 44th President if he avoids flying aircraft until after he wins the popular and electoral vote after the November elections by a margin the USSC can't touch. I'd hate to see him become a victum of the Bush/GOP evils that's killed Wellstone and Mel Carnihan.


ANY BODY BUT W BUSH ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !


Joe Leibermann, go to HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nobody needs or wants you!
Bring back the Concorde
 
L-188
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:56 pm

I'd hate to see him become a victum of the Bush/GOP evils that's killed Wellstone and Mel Carnihan.

Superfly, am I to understand that you think that those guys where assasinated by our current president?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:14 am

I hear Dean being referenced to this McGovern person alot.

Who is McGovern? And what's the story behind him?
 
zak
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:16 am

10=2
 
Tom in NO
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:49 am

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I'm sure the GOP is laughing all they way to the 2004 election with this one. It really doesn't matter who the Dems put forth to run against Bush. No one that is a declared candidate can beat GWB.

I'm looking at the Democratic primaries as entertainment more than anything. Not that I'm paying much attention to begin with.

McGovern was the Democratic candidate who ran against Nixon in 1972. McGovern was summarily steamrolled in the election. Not sure how many states, if any, he carried.

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 4:07 am

Don't kid yourselves, people, if Wes Clark wins the nomination he'll DESTROY Bush

You want to make a friendly $500 wager on that?



oooh! I want in! Easy $500 Big grin

Clark has done more flipflops than an Olympic gymnast... will be relatively easy to pick him apart in the easy going of the general campaign



Very much agree with Tom in NO
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Superfly
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 4:59 am

George McGovern won only Massachusettes and the District of Columbia for a total of 17 electoral votes and 37% of the popular vote.


Nixon (the crook) hollow victory was short lived. He was forced to resign because of Watergate less than 2 years after his re-election.
Bring back the Concorde
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:21 am


If Dean is the Democratic contender, it will be a disaster for the party. Clark is getting a free ride as he has no presence in Iowa, when the boys go to NH and Clark starts to open his mouth again, he will fall in the polls.

A Liebeman or Gephart have the best chance, any other canidate will lose, badly.

That said, President Bush has done an excellent, the only part that disturbs me, is the spending, but in times of war, this type of spending is crucial.
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JeffM
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:51 am

Most Republicans support Dean or Clark for the simple fact that they can be torn apart easier then a Toyota Prius in an accident... DOH!

 Big grin
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:59 am

You might want to consider that Bush wants to take a large part of your overtime away, and his administration is now seriously beginning to infringe on the rights of US citizens and travellers from abroad. I'm all for effective security, but much of this is overkill, and its only going to get worse.

The worst thing anyone can possibly do in this election is to re-elect Bush.....or vote Green.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:18 am

Hmm, lemme think:

Overkill- and piss a few foreigners off, many of whom look for a reason to be pissed at us anyways.....

or

Underkill- be Clintonian buddies with everyone, only to watch a few thousand of your own plunge to their death, in some way or other.....



hmmm......
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
FDXmech
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:27 am

How about a Gephardt - Edwards ticket?

You're only as good as your last departure.
 
L.1011
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:39 am



 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 7:37 am




 Big thumbs up
 
goingboeing
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 7:41 am

Does it really matter? The "candidates" are doing such a magnificent job of bashing one another that the Bush team only needs to sit back and watch TV - their opponents are making the Republicans campaign ads for them. What will really be sad is whoever is selected, the same guys who were trashing them the previous months will smile and talk about how they are "right behind" their candidate.
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 7:50 am


Goingboeing
My thoughts exactly, the bashing has been pretty bad, not just on TV spots, but at the debates as well. The information that they are providing to Bush is mind boggling, the attack dogs are certainly earning their money. The amazing part is that when this is all said & done, how can any of these canidates endorse one another? If no endorsement, the party is going to be divided.

The attacks against Bush have equally as aggressive, with all of these attacks, very little time to discuss the issues on hand. Still waiting for one of the Democrats to take the high road & stick to the issues.
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Aloha717200
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 7:59 am

I dont believe that the election is just being handed to Bush. That will be decided later when the nominee is selected.

An interesting question to consider though, is once the nominee is selected, who will he pick as his running mate? Since they're all bashing each other, it'd be interesting. I personally would believe though that Edwards might be the pick for Vice President...simply because he doesnt seem as aggressive as some of the other candidates.


Whoever the democratic party nominates, I'll be voting for that candidate. Not because I'm a democrat, but because 4 more years of Bush is something I consider outright dangerous for this country.


If you dont want bush in office, vote against him....even if it looks like the democrats are gonna lose. Remember, they said Arnold Schwarzenegger would never be elected governor of california. The media swung attacks at Arnold right and left, drug his name through the mud. People said his campaign was a joke. They said all the in-fighting and circus surrounding the California Recall would all but hand the election to Davis.


Arnold won and proved them all wrong. Dont make assumptions, you never know just how much of a chance the democrats may actually have here. If Arnold can do it, why I say the democrats can do it too.

[Edited 2004-01-17 00:02:07]
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:37 am

If you guys are interested, here is an article that is linked to from Wesley Clark's website.

Yes, its from Esquire, but its very interesting nonetheless. But more importantly, it has a few interesting stories to tell about the Bush administration, and how Clark seems to respond to it. Utterly fascinating. I decided its time for me to really start researching all these candidates and see who it is I really support, and I started with Clark. It's a long article, 9 pages in fact, but it might be worth the read, to people on both sides of the fence here.

Will you take a read, if only to kill some time? Big grin

http://www.esquire.com/features/articles/2003/030801_mfe_clark_1.html
 
JeffM
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 10:29 am

"You might want to consider that Bush wants to take a large part of your overtime away...

Damn the bad luck for the 'overtime crowd'.

I am on salary....

But if you read the proposal...you will see it is not what you say..
 
texan
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sun Jan 18, 2004 3:19 am

Gotta go with the guy I've been supporting since 2001, Governor Howard Dean, MD. He is the candidate whom I agree with most. I think he is the best candidate the Democrats have. Some people say his anger is a problem, but that's one thing us Dems have had trouble with in the past: we have not been able to find a good candidate who has been willing to go out and get riled up, to get us riled up and really pissed off about what has been going on in our country. He is not being like Lieberman, Kerry, and Clark and trying to out Republican the Republicans. We've tried that before, and it does not work. Gephardt is the Representative in my district here in Missouri. I do not believe that he has done a consistently good job for the Democratic party. And if you are concerned about people flip-flopping on issues, remember that Gephardt used to be extremely pro-life and has now changed his stance to pro-choice. Out of all the Democrats running, there are really only two that I can stand: Dean and Edwards. Lieberman does not stand a chance in the world against Bush. I believe he will alienate a good part of the Democratic core, and, in my opinion, a vote for him is almost like voting for Bush again. If he gets the nomination, its time to write-in Ralph Nader again to show dissatisfaction with the Democratic Party. Kerry does not have a chance, as Dean has stolen a good amount of the people who would be voting for Kerry. Clark, like Lieberman, is too conservative, and could actually be a Republican. Gephardt is seen as too much of a complete ass to be elected, especially by those who remember the 1988 Democratic Presidential Primaries and his attacks on Al Gore. Sharpton is the funniest one, but he realistically has no chance. Kucinich is an interesting character, but is unelectable. Edwards is a very personable candidate who could make a big splash.
But almost as important as the Presidential race, if not more important, are the Senatorial and House races. In Texas, the redistricting issue has the Democrats up in arms, and could prove to be a good thing in the long run, getting the Democratic base energized and out to upset the Republicans in Bush's adopted state (from Connecticut, refuse to recognize him as a fellow Texan). There are a couple of interesting races for the US House in Texas: Martin Frost will likely be going against either Pete Sessions or Jeb Hensarling, two of the most conservative members of Congress, and could beat either one of them. In East Texas, Ralph Hall faces a possible upset election. And in South Texas, the Congressman representing the Beaumont/Pt. Arthur area might be running against Tom Delay, one of the most evil people on the face of this earth. So, here's to Dean and Frost, and here's to hoping Hensarling (my Rep down in Texas), Sessions, and Delay are beaten in November and the Dems regain control of the House and Senate!

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
donder10
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sun Jan 18, 2004 3:51 am

For all the talk of Dean being further to the left than the outfield in Wrigley Field only on Iraq and the tax cuts is he truly on the leftist side.But of course,the US media is liberal.
 
cba
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sun Jan 18, 2004 5:32 am

Dean was actually conservative on many issues as governor. He has swung left for the primaries, but look to see him pull back to center if he bags the nomination.

Dean DOES NOT advocate gun control, affirmative action (changed recently for the democratic primaries), and he also supported the death penalty. He's not as far left as everyone makes him out to be.
 
donder10
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:27 am

Exactly.You could make the case for him being around the same political area as Arnie when he stops his mouth piece pandering to the Democratic establishement.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sun Jan 18, 2004 11:41 am

Hmmm, after going through the candidates and delving deeper into their stance on the issues, I think my opinions have changed a little.


Since I started with Wesley Clark, I looked into the entire platform...but sifting through all the issues left me somewhat drained. So I narrowed it down to what I most care about right now:

Higher education (I'm about to enter college) and Homeland security (and the repeal of the patriot act).


What I found is that the candidate I most support on Education is by far Wesley Clark. His plan to aid financing college costs is the best I've seen. And unlike Howard Dean's plan, I could actually take advantage of this new college program very soon.

On the repeal of the Patriot Act or at least a serious overhaul of it, plus changes to airline security....it's a tie between Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich, both of whom strongly oppose the Act, with Wesley Clark coming up second place.

My feelings on Kerry have taken a complete 180 though. But I need to read more about him before drawing broad assumptions, but I'd say his plan for requiring 2 years of community service from every high school student is radical at best and not something I like.

Joe Liberman's site is surprisingly vague. He gives a synopsis of his stance but thus far I havent found details. Howard Dean's rural plan is also surprisingly vague.


So, right now, I'd say my strongest support is for Clark, followed by Dean.
 
777YYC
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sun Jan 18, 2004 12:14 pm

The 4-star General versus the Draft Dodger... who's going to win?  Big grin
Not that there's anything wrong with being a draft dodger.
 
L-188
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:12 pm

The minute I found out that Michael Moore endorsed Clarke, was the minute I realized that man could and should not be president.

Dean is pretty left wing, his problem is that the only platform he has is the "I hate Bush" one and I don't think he can run with that.

but I'd say his plan for requiring 2 years of community service from every high school student is radical at best and not something I like.

I thought slavery was illegal in this country. Isn't it amazing how you can give slavery a new name and make it acceptable.


The 4-star General versus the Draft Dodger... who's going to win?

Bill Clinton is running again  Confused

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
MD-90
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:29 pm

Joe Leibermann, go to HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nobody needs or wants you!


Why am I not surprised? Joe's the only one out of the pack of wannabes that I could actually stomach as President.

If Bush ditches Cheney and takes on Condoleeza as his running mate for VP it's gonna be Bush by a landslide.

I'm for Condoleeza for VP!

And I was for Ron Allen till he decided not to run.
 
L-188
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:42 pm

I don't see GW changing the ticket, unless Cheney has another heart attack.

It would be taken as a sign that he is in trouble, and the Democrats would promote that idea to the fullest.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Democrat Front-runners: Your Thoughts?

Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:50 pm

L-188,


You know, I figured I had to have read that wrong....because it didnt sound right. But I went back to his website just now to read and re-read to make sure I was correct.....and it is true, he wants to make it mandatory that all high school students in this nation will have to do community service as a requirement for graduation.

In return they will get $4,000 a year for college.


There's too many problems with this plan that i dont see addressed, such as high school students with disabilities or medical conditions that might prevent them from being able to work....will they lose their right to graduation? How does this apply to students at alternate schools? Or those being home schooled? And it raises the question of whether this borders on child labor or not, because although 16 year olds and up can hold a job, there are 13 and 14 year old students in high schools at the lowest levels (Grade 9) who will also fall under this mandate. I'd rather, if those kids want to help the community...I'd rather they help their fellow classmates or teachers at that age.

I've always liked the way Kerry speaks and how reassured he seems on stage...but up till now I hadnt really read his policies. So although he had me sort of won over from his media appearances...he's lost me on the real issues.

I may just end up liking Dean more than I thought. Because although right now Clark's ideas seem to be the best, there's a trust issue with him, when from one day to the next he doesnt seem to quite say the same things he says on his site. If he'd stick to his agenda that's outlined over massive amounts of PDF files on his website, there'd be no issue. Because I support his written platform and his written ideas. But I dont quite know yet whether I can trust him, and that will be a deciding factor in this election as well.....trust.

Bush is bad for this country and I dread to think of what 2008 will look like if he is re-elected. I just pray the democrats can elect someone moderate, someone electable. John Kerry, now, does not seem to fit that description.

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