trijetfan1
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What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:05 am

What is view on Ronald Reagan?
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doug_or
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:33 am

Debt, scandal, and incompetence.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
rabenschlag
Posts: 1011
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:38 am

well, he learned his job.

being a moronic actor surely is a great predisposition to be the puppet for someones strings.
 
texan
Posts: 4059
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:05 pm

TriJetFan, you might've just opened a big can of worms Smile
Apparently there are no moderates really on this site (with 2 or 3 exceptions), so it should be interesting to see what happens!
As for me, I think he did what he truly believed was in the best interests of the country. Just happen to disagree with a good amount of his opinions (as I do with Clinton, just to be equal to both parties). Never really liked the movies he was in, but he has what is quite possibly the most memorable quote in a presidential campaign in quite a while: "There you go again, Mr. President!" Very savvy politician who could charm a room and the majority of the American population. Haven't really looked up a whole lot on what he did while governor of California, so I won't comment on that. He attempted to implement the Trickle Down Theory of Economics, which failed because of just a basic flaw in the theory, it was not his fault for it failing. It assumes that by giving more money to the rich, more money will be spent on goods and services, especially in a downward trending economy. However, when the economy is in decline, people invest less and save more, so the money was actually not being reinvested into the economy, it was being put into savings. And not everything that went poorly can be blamed on Reagan. As much as I hate to admit it, the Democrats controlled Congress for at least part of the time (I believe the entire time, but it has been a while) and some helped vote his ideas into law.
Summary: Not an evil man, disagree with ideas, rank him low among the Presidents.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
haveric
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:54 pm

During his administration we had:

- Waste of Money on Star Wars
- Crack Epidemic
- Reagan's Denial for years that AIDS was a problem
- stock market crash
- Iran Contra scandal
- trickle-down economics
- junk bond scandals

this is just the tip of the iceberg...
 
b757300
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sat Feb 28, 2004 2:53 pm

Greatest President in the 20th Century and in the Top 5 off all time.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
ArmitageShanks
Posts: 3737
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 5:30 am

RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sat Feb 28, 2004 3:12 pm

Who is he? I forgot?


One ticket to Hell, please.

[Edited 2004-02-28 07:12:32]
 
haveric
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sat Feb 28, 2004 3:38 pm

B757 -- any way to justify that?
 
Gunships
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sat Feb 28, 2004 3:50 pm

My honest opinion:
He is among the top three Presidents of my lifetime.
The other two on the list are a Father & Son and one of them is our current President.



 
trijetfan1
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:18 am

Thank you Ronald Reagan for ending the Soviet Union!
Earned PPL June 26, 2007
 
trijetfan1
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:24 am

Top five of all time-
5. James K. Polk tie Martin Van Buren
4. Abraham Lincoln
3. Harry S. Truman
2. RONALD REAGAN
1. George Washington
Earned PPL June 26, 2007
 
TYSGoVols
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:33 am

What happened on his watch.

-Kept this country safe
-Saw the end of oppression in the Soviet Union.
(well maybe not exactly on REagons watch but he did have a huge part in it)
-Brought this country back around after the 70's and all the crap that happened then Iran and the oil crisis.
-An attempt to slow down drug flow into this country and slow usage/


Do I feel he was good oh yes

In Christ
Garen B.
Rocky Top You'll Always be home sweet home to me, Good ole' Rocky Top WOOOOO
 
BGR1962
Posts: 91
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 1:26 am

One of the greatest men ever to occupy the White House. I agree with Gunship and B757300 as well!

Funny to hear a German bad mouthing him though.

I wonder, which side of the wall are you from there, Rabenschlag? You sound disappointed he brought down the wall, what are you a disgruntled communist?
 
DC10GUY
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 4:44 am

My opinion of Reagan ??? One simple word ASSHOLE !!!
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Klaus
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BGR1962

Sun Feb 29, 2004 5:09 am

BGR1962: Funny to hear a German bad mouthing him though.

Have you stopped to think that maybe, just maybe we´ve got a less favourable opinion of Reagan´s involvement because we were there when the wall fell?

I´ve been born and raised in western Germany and I know why I joined the big peace demonstration in Bonn 1982, why I refused military service at that same time while Reagan progressively raised the nuclear stakes in an already extremely dangerous situation, with our home country being designated as the first nuclear battleground.

And I know why I consider Michail Gorbatchev as the decisive leader who brought down the wall. Hint: It wasn´t just because Ronnie asked him to!  Insane

We were here when it happened. And from close up, the situation was much more complex (and more interesting!) than just "Ronnie brought down the wall!".


Ronald Reagan does have some historical merits; But they´re in severe danger of being eclipsed by the Iran-Contra debacle and many other tactical and strategic blunders and misjudgments.

Among other things, the now-apparent erosion of the transatlantic relationship and the waning of US political influence has its early roots in the Reagan White House.
 
doug_or
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 5:27 am


-Kept this country safe

couln't that be said about every president this past century?

-Saw the end of oppression in the Soviet Union.

I saw it too. does that make me a great president?

-An attempt to slow down drug flow into this country and slow usage/
attempt? attempting to do something makes you great?
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
trijetfan1
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 5:37 am

"My opinion of Reagan ??? One simple word ASSHOLE !!!"


-I like the facts to back up your statement
Earned PPL June 26, 2007
 
TYSGoVols
Posts: 610
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 5:57 am

Thre can be nothing more than an attempt to slow that down. Besides my statement was an answer to whoever sadi we had a crack break out during his tenure as President. You cannot blame the Presidnet for a nationwide drug problem.
Rocky Top You'll Always be home sweet home to me, Good ole' Rocky Top WOOOOO
 
BGR1962
Posts: 91
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 6:03 am

Kluas: "with our home country being designated as the first nuclear battleground"

I crew up in a small town on the coast of Maine that was ground zero as far Russian nukes were concerned. It was between the low frequency communication post our navy uses to communicate with ballistic missile subs, a major navy listening post, a major SAC B-52 base and a airfield that was home to KC-135's. So please spare me the crap about being in harms way during the cold war and how badly it effected you.

When Ronald Reagan became President I was proud that the U.S. had a leader who knew how rattle a saber when necessary. It was the only thing that kept the Soviet Union at bay.

It was his leadership that bankrupt the Soviet Union. Had it not been for Reagan the Soviet Union would still be alive and strong today. If it hadn't been for Mr. Reagan you, my friend would have some Stazie making sure you weren't on a computer. Without Reagan Germany might have reunited, but not the way it did.

 
Klaus
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BGR1962

Sun Feb 29, 2004 6:31 am

BGR1962: So please spare me the crap about being in harms way during the cold war and how badly it effected you.

If you don´t care to spell my name properly, that´s one thing. But at least read a little more carefully what I´ve written.

What I´ve said is that being close to the scene gave me a fundamentally different perspective of the events. No mention of any "damage" at all.


BGR1962: When Ronald Reagan became President I was proud that the U.S. had a leader who knew how rattle a saber when necessary.

Oh my, you´ve really got a bad case of hero worship.  Insane


BGR1962: It was the only thing that kept the Soviet Union at bay.

Outside of your US-centric fantasy world, things looked quite different. How much time did you actually invest back then to find out what was happening in and around Europe and the Warshaw Pact? Sorry, but you´re not making the impression of actually knowing what you´re talking about.

In reality, there were many, many more factors involved; And the Reagan administration certainly didn´t play the leading role.
 
jcs17
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 7:31 am

One of the top five presidents in the history of the United States.

-Helped end communism by having a peace through strength policy

-Ended a potentially very dangerous recession and ended fiscally irresponsible policies enacted by the Carter administration

Klaus, Reagan did play a leading role in the fall of the USSR and the fall of the Berlin Wall. The Soviets in the late 70s had every intention of keeping power because they knew with weak presidents like Carter who would never stand up to them they could do as they pleased. Reagan basically let the Soviet regimes know that as long as Communism was still in place, the United States would always be strengthening itself to a degree beyond what the USSR could do.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
trijetfan1
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 9:08 am

Where are the Republicans?
Earned PPL June 26, 2007
 
L.1011
Posts: 2163
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:14 am

Well I'm here, just lovin people trying to take cheap shots at the third greatest President of all time. Ronald Reagan ended communism, brought us into the greatest period of economic growth in history, created millions of jobs, and ,most of all, gave people a sense of American pride that was destroyed in the 70s by hippies, peaceniks, Iran hostages and Vietnam.
 
trijetfan1
Posts: 1098
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:23 am

Thats more like it!
-I think it was very important that he set a major pride in America after the anti American hippies as you said. I like it how the people who hate have no facts to back up their statements. They are just protecting the left wing.
Earned PPL June 26, 2007
 
texan
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:43 am

TriJetFan, I haven't seen anybody really from either side make any kind of argument with actual facts. If what L.1011 said is fact merely because he said it, then please, L.1011, say that I am richer than Bill Gates.
And although admittedly a liberal, I do not protect the left wing and do not get pissed off if people disagree with what I say or believe. And, as I said before, I do not believe President Reagan did a good job, though I do not believe he has been one of the two or three worst presidents of all time. And I really wish people would stop saying "Ronald Reagan ended communism." First of all, there are still communistic states out there that have been communist since pre-Reagan times (Cuba, North Korea, Angola, etc.). Secondly, the USSR fell because of reforms being made by the communist party in the USSR, and these reforms began in the 1970s, not in the 1980s. There was no US President responsible for the fall of communism. The Soviets did a fine job of implosion.  Smile

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
trijetfan1
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:52 am

Texan I was saying when DC guy said that he was an asshole.
Earned PPL June 26, 2007
 
L.1011
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:02 am

Trijetfan1,

I'd love to put you on my RR list, but it's full. Just wait till one of 'em pisses me off  Big grin

Texan,

Ronald Reagan got the USSR by simply driving our system against theirs. In their system, the government had to pay for "butter" and "guns." In our system, the "butter" pays for itself through the cycle of capitalism, so the government could concentrate on the "guns." The problem the Reds had was that they had to make a choice. Reagan could spend on the military without worring about keeping the people fed. The Soviets had to keep up with Reagan at least a little to keep from us gaining enough superiority to go in there and kick some commie ass. The problem with that is, they couldn't afford to keep the people fed, so the people rebelled and the system imploded. Reagan didn't have to go in and kick some commie ass. He only had to set himself up to. Oh and if you're disputing that what I'm saying is fact, why does every junior high school social studies/history textbook discuss "The Conservative Revolution"? Ronald Reagan managed to unite the country in an unprecidented way. Oh, and if you dispute the rest- DON'T MAKE ME PULL UP THOSE STATS TEXAN!
 
doug_or
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:15 am

L.1011

Thats exactly Texan's point. Reagan didn't end communisim in the USSR. The communist sytem in the USSR ended it.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
trijetfan1
Posts: 1098
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:21 am

If Reagan did not stockpile back in his terms, there would still be a hammer and sickle!
Earned PPL June 26, 2007
 
BN747
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:22 am

L-1011..good job at hijacking my verbalizing the 'Russians's had to choose between eating or building missles' theme...you learn fast! Go ahead, post the thread where you first stated that argument!

Reagan had Alzheimer when took the oath the 1st time in January 20, 1981. He couldn't find Russia on a map if his life depended on it. Good or bad (and it was mostly bad) accomplishments under his name were done by the people behind him..the man was just a face for the American people. He simply memorized the lines he was told to read...and it made your parents feel 'America was safe again' ..as if it weren't in the place! He too had a chance to fight in WW II but chose to make 'war news and saftey reels' unlike actors like Jimmy Stewart who went on to fight for the country!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
doug_or
Posts: 3118
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:27 am

The soviet union was broke. they would have been broke if reagan stockpiled more weapons. the would have been broke if he wasted less on star wars.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
Klaus
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 7:49 pm

When you´re looking at the time strictly with a domestic american view (and a partisan one at that), you´ll miss the fundamental changes that were already under way in the "real world" at that time.

The weird sectarian insistence on seeing all the reasons for the end of the Soviet Union in Washington is somewhat understandable when one doesn´t want to bother with the complexities of reality.

It´s just more fitting for a cult than for a political discussion.  Insane
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 8:13 pm

Ronald Reagan sucked as a President but George W. Bush sucks harder!

Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall sumed Reagan up the best.
"Ronald Reagan is just an actor".
Bring back the Concorde
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
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RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

Sun Feb 29, 2004 9:36 pm

BGR1962, the waning days of the 80s weren't the height of the Cold War, but I grew up living 25 miles from the Redstone Arsenal (and Marshall Spaceflight Center) in Huntsville, Alabama, and it was a well known fact that Huntsville was well-targeted with Soviet warheads.

Martin Van Buren. Are you kidding me? Admittedly, Polk did accomplish every one of his 4 goals of his Presidency, but Van Buren!?!?

The other two on the list are a Father & Son and one of them is our current President.

I disagree. Bush senior was a great man, but a lousy President. He ended Reagan's economic policy in 1990 when he gave in to the Democrat-controlled Congress. That was a big, big mistake.

If anyone tells you that Reagan's trickle-down economics didn't work, they're either ignorant or lying.


  • From 1982 to 1990, the US experienced 96 consecutive months of economic growth, the longest in peacetime history up to that point.
  • Average real family income grew by 15 percent from 1982 to 1989, according to the US Bureau of the Census.

  • For the poorest fifth of Americans, real income grew by almost 12 percent.

  • Families earning more than $50,000 (in 1990 dollars) went from less than 25 percent of families in 1980 to 31 percent of families in 1990.

  • According to the US Treasury's Office of Tax Analysis, of those who were in the bottom-fifth income bracket in 1979, 65 percent jumped at least two income brackets in the 1980s. In fact, more made it all the way to the top than stayed in the poorest group.

  • Federal Reserve data show that families with incomes between $10,000 and $50,000 a year experienced a higher percentage of growth in net worth than did families in the top-one-fifth income group

  • The top 1 percent paid more than 25 percent of all federal income taxes in 1990, a 40 percent increase over 1980, according to the Congressional Budget Office. The bottom 60 percent paid less than 11 percent of federal taxes in 1990--20 percent less than in 1980.

  • The black middle class grew rapidly, from 2.6 million households with incomes of $25,000 or more in 1979, to 3.9 million in 1989.

  • Between 1983 and 1989, the total population under the poverty line decreased by 3.8 million people, with an unprecedented number of the poor entering the workforce.

  • 20 million new jobs were created. 82 percent of them were in the higher-skilled, higher paying positions

  • Between 1978 and 1982 the number of poor blacks rose by more than 2 million; between 1982 and 1989 the number of poor blacks fell by 400,000.

  • Between 1982 and 1989, real after-tax income per person rose 15.5 percent, and real median incomes of families, before taxes, went up 12.5 percent


  • Now this is really important, so read closely

  • During the 1980s, ALL income groups, from the poorest to the richest, experienced real income gains. Yet during the Carter years, when liberalism was flourishing, only the income of the top ONE PERCENT grew.
  •  
    Superfly
    Posts: 37735
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    RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

    Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:53 pm

    MD-90:
    Thank God the Democrats controlled the House of Representatives and Senate (Reagan's last two years) to keep Reagan in check so all of those great economic accomplishments could happen.  Smile


    Jimmy Carter was still a better man for the job and would have gave us people MUCH better than O'Conner, Scalia and Kennedy of out Supreme Court.  Smile
    Bring back the Concorde
     
    L-188
    Posts: 29881
    Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

    RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

    Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:58 pm

    Actually the fact he got all that accomplished despite the congress, is what makes the Reagan legacy even more incredible.
    OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
     
    L.1011
    Posts: 2163
    Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:46 am

    RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

    Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:26 pm

    BN747,

    Don't post that Alzhemer's shit. Everyone who isn't completely brainwashed (not nessecarily including you) knows that's bullshit.

    Superfly,

    Let's see some facts. The democrats had far less to do with that economic growth than Reagan.

    Doug and Klaus,

    Yes the system was flawed. Yes it would have went down eventually. But that "eventually" wouldn't have happened until the guy in the Oval Office started packin' on the military. That forced the butter and guns descision that brought them down. Anyone from WW2 to today could have ended communism for millions by forcing that choice, but Reagan was the one that did it.
     
    777236ER
    Posts: 12213
    Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

    RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

    Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 pm

    L.1011,

    You say Regan destroyed the Soviet Union, but then your signature is "Government is not the solution to our problems, government is the problem"?

    ??
    Your bone's got a little machine
     
    Alpha 1
    Posts: 12343
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    RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

    Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:56 pm

    Actually the fact he got all that accomplished despite the congress...

    Actually, that is inaccurate, L-188. He made a deal with the Democratic Congress: give me my defense spending, and I won't curtail spending drastically. He worked very well with Tip O'Neil, the leading Democrat in the House, and with the Democrats in the Senate. He was smart enough to understand that unless there was comprimise, nothing would get done. Clinton did the same thing in his presidency, and, despite the personal animus the GOP had for him, a lot did get accomplished with Clinton and a GOP Congress.

    Let's see some facts. The democrats had far less to do with that economic growth than Reagan.

    How would you know, L.1011? You weren't even around then, for goodness sake. Had the Dems wanted to, they could have blocked everything Reagan proposed. That didn't happen, because they worked together.

    But at the same time, you and the other right-wingers on here give Clinton absolutely no credit for the economy of the 90's. It's the same thing as it was with Reagan. Things got done because both presidents understood that they HAD to work with the opposition to move the country forward.

    If you're willing to give as much credit to Reagan for the 80's economy, Clinton deserves the same lions' share of the credit for the boom in the 90's. But you'll never do that because of your blind loathing of Clinton. That's called hypocrisy.
     
    trijetfan1
    Posts: 1098
    Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:29 am

    RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

    Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:39 am

    777236ER- that is a sarcastic Reagan quote.
    Earned PPL June 26, 2007
     
    MD-90
    Posts: 7835
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    RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

    Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:40 am

    If you're willing to give as much credit to Reagan for the 80's economy, Clinton deserves the same lions' share of the credit for the boom in the 90's.


    Alpha 1, it may be hard for you to accept, I know, but it is quite clear that Reagan was responsible for the economic recovery after Carter's disastrous presidency, and that the Republican congress majority elected after Clinton took office was reponsible for the boom times of the 90's. Clinton just got lucky and managed to ride the wave. He was hardly in the Oval Office for a couple of weeks when he offered up

    1991-1992 you ask? Bush tried to compromise with the Democrats and he got stabbed in the back. Cost him the election too, when they moved away from Reagan's policies.

    Let's look at what Clinton (who may be the most successful liar to ever run for President, you have to admit that Slick Willie was pretty darn good at it) said when running for office and later, when he actually got there.

    Campaign promises:

  • "We should cut middle-classes taxes immediately by 10 percent." Clinton, Campaign Document, September 1992.

  • "We want to give modest middle-class tax relief to restore some fairness, especially to middle-class people with families with incomes of under $60,000 per year." Clinton, first Presidential debate, October 1992.

  • "I've offered a comprehensive plan to get our economy moving again. It starts with a tax cut for the middle class." Clinton, first campaign ad, 1992.

  • "I will not raise taxes on the middle class." Clinton, June 21, 1992

  • "I'm not going to raise taxes on the middle class." Clinton, July 13, 1992

  • "I will slash boondoggle projects." Clinton "Putting People First."

  • The Clinton team's search for programs 'that don't work or are no longer needed' found only eleven." Wall Street Journal, March 23, 1993


  • And the about face:

  • "I don't like to use the word sacrifice." Clinton, May 1992.
  • "It will not be easy. It will require sacrifice." Clinton, January 1993.
  • "There are [tax] increases for every family making more than $20,000 a year." New York Times analysis of Clinton's budget.
  • "I had hoped to invest in your future without asking more of you. And I've worked harder than I've ever worked in my life to meet that goal. But I can't." Clinton, Oval Office Address, February 15, 1993, announcing middle-class tax increase after being in office less than on month.

  • $178 billion: cost of Clinton's proposed new spending. $173 billion: revenues raised under Clinton plan from Social Security, income, energy, and gas taxes. Clinton's budget document, "A Vision of Change for America," February 1993.

  • "It is a disgrace to the American people that the president of the United States would make a claim that is so baseless, that is so without foundation, so shameful in its attempt to get votes under false pretenses." Clinton, October 1, 1992, in response to a Bush-Quayle ad that people with incomes of as little as $30,000 would pay more taxes under the Clinton plan.

  • "I'm going to ask them [Congress] to cut spending in a broad range of areas." Clinton, February 10, 1993, referring to budget that cuts spending primarily in one area: the military.


  • Some other gems:

  • "This plan is not play or pay. It will require no new taxes." Clinton, September 24, 1992, in a speech on his health-care plan to employees of Merck.

  • "Clinton Health Plan to Cost $100 Billion a Year" Washington Times, April 23, 1993.


  • "I did not mean to float a trial balloon about a national sales tax. It's not under consideration at this time. Ten to 15 years away." Clinton, February 19, 1993.

  • "Certainly we're looking at a VAT tax." Donna Shalala, Secretary of of Health and Human Services, April 15, 2003.


  • "I'm sure--after almost five weeks in office--that there are more [budget] cuts coming." Clinton, U.S. Chamber of Commerce, February 1993.

  • "The President had no specific cuts in mind and no schedule for making them." George Stephanopoulos, the next day.




  • How in THE WORLD can Clinton, as evidenced by all these things that he proposed just after getting into office, possibly be responsible for the 90's boom? The answer, of course, is that he wasn't. Newt Gingrich had more to do with it than he did.
     
    haveric
    Posts: 1219
    Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 9:31 am

    RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

    Mon Mar 01, 2004 5:03 am

    You might want to check your sources for the conservative rhetoric you spewed above.

    For example:

    "Certainly we're looking at a VAT tax." Donna Shalala, Secretary of of Health and Human Services, April 15, 2003.

    doesn't look right....

    Plain and simple - President Clinton presided over the longest period of economic growth in American history. His presidency was bookended by two men who drove the country into war and recession.
     
    Alpha 1
    Posts: 12343
    Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

    RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

    Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:39 am

    Alpha 1, it may be hard for you to accept, I know, but it is quite clear that Reagan was responsible for the economic recovery after Carter's disastrous presidency, and that the Republican congress majority elected after Clinton took office was reponsible for the boom times of the 90's.

    Utter baloney, MD-90. Again, you give all the praise to the GOP, and none to the Democrats, which is, first of all, a nice re-write of history, and secondly, an outright falseshood.

    Both Reagan and Clinton were smart enough to realize they faced an opposition in majority in the Congress, and both, despite having some run-in's with them (Clinton far mor than Reagan), was able to get quite a bit accomplished. Clinton moved from the left to the center to accomodate the Republicans in some ways, and Reagan moved from the right to closer to the center on some issues to accomodate the Democrats. Both did so to try and get as mu h of their agenda passed as they could.

    Unlike you, I'm not a vassel of the Republican party, and put out the party of the Democrats. I give Reagan credit where it is due: in shoring up the morale of the American people, of giving Americans a sense of hope, and of working with the Loyal Opposition to move the country forward. Yet you, on the other hand, don't even have the common sense to tell the truth, which is that Reagan AND the Democratic Congress, and Clinton AND the Republican Congress were responsible for economies that ran very well. You give all the glory to one side, and that, to me, undercuts your credibility.

    When you want to get more realistic about the truth, on both sides, then maybe you can rejoin the conversation. But if you just want to put out the GOP party line that they can do no wrong, and that the Dems screw everything up, don't bother.

    [Edited 2004-02-29 23:03:03]
     
    MD-90
    Posts: 7835
    Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

    RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

    Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:58 am

    Oops. I mis-typed. Should be 1993, of course.

    When it comes to the economy, the GOP party line that they can do no wrong, and that the Dems screw everything up, you're not all that far off the mark. Look at how all the would-be Democratic contenders for President think that they can just tax the rich willy-nilly and it won't affect the economy.

    I guess I should give Clinton a little credit. He did have the good sense not to try and interefere with the economy too much after he got his first smackdown in his first two years of his term. You're right, he probably does deserve a little credit for that.

    But as for Reagan, basically it seems to me that he did compromise with the Democratic Congress on spending, which is why he was able to run the Soviet Union into the ground with defense spending, and yet the deficits mounted because the liberals got their feel-good welfare programs. But I don't really see the compromising as to how the tax cuts were passed. That was pure leadership (almost).
     
    Alpha 1
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    RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

    Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:07 am

    When it comes to the economy, the GOP party line that they can do no wrong, and that the Dems screw everything up, you're not all that far off the mark.

    Which is why you lose all credibility. We've had strong economies under both Democratic and Republican Presidents. Reagan and Clinton stand out on that one. We've had weak economies under both sides. Hoover and Carter leap to mind. We've had different majorities in Congress during those times. A president cannot just shove thorugh what he wants without working with Congress in most cases, and Congress, in most cases, cannot push a president around on where he wants the nation to go. Both must work together. You've been awash in GOP rhetoric too long to really believe such an utter falsehood, MD-90.

    And it's funny, when Reagan compromised, after his first two years of butting heads with the Dems, you give him credit for "pure leadership", whereas Clinton only did it because he was "smacked down." Again, such rhetoric defies what actually happened, and weakens your credibility on the issue. Obviously, you're not big enough, or maybe it's something else, to see what really happened without putting GOP-colored glasses on your eyes.
     
    North County
    Posts: 681
    Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 11:52 pm

    RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

    Tue Mar 02, 2004 9:52 am



    Klaus likes to use the term "hero worship" as often as possible......

    Reagan was a great president.

    Future generations the World over will come to realize what a great goal and accomplishment it was for Reagan to end the Cold War.
     
    WellHung
    Posts: 3299
    Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:50 pm

    RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

    Tue Mar 02, 2004 9:57 am

    I don't really have an opionion of the man as a President, but people who argue about him surely are idiots.
     
    trijetfan1
    Posts: 1098
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    RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

    Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:10 am

    "I don't really have an opionion of the man as a President, but people who argue about him surely are idiots."

    -If you don't have an opinion, don't post anything.
    Earned PPL June 26, 2007
     
    WellHung
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    RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

    Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:26 am

    If you don't want people to respond, don't start a thread. After all, your original post said:

    "What is view on Ronald Reagan?"

    After correcting the obvious grammatical error, I'll take that to mean:

    "What is your view on Ronald Reagan?"

    I don't have one. Not having an opinion of him is my view. So what's the problem?
     
    airplay
    Posts: 3369
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    RE: What Is Your Opinion On Ronald Reagan?

    Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:47 am

    Is this thread still active? Man...this thread is gonna outlast the subject.

    Let's face it. The Reagan administration isn't going to go down in history for anything of significance. At least not for anything directly controlled by ol' Ronnie and Nancy (aka "Mommie").

    I'm somewhat convinced that the economy isn't always at the mercy of the president. I think the president tends to ride the econimic tide like the rest of America but of course he/she is capable of nudging the economy in favour of their own interests.

    Reagnomics? Nice buzz-phrase. Almost as memorable but not as significant to American society as "Where's the Beef".

    In what is arguably Reagan's final months, we should put this thread to rest. I'm sure there will be plenty of time to memorialize him when CNN does the look back at his life....

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