ConcordeBoy
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For Lotr Supersleuths: Arwen's Mortality?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:58 am

How exactly did Arwen Undomiel give up her immortality?



IIRC, the Life of Eldar left her body long before the final ships departed Middle Earth for Tol Eressea... how did it "know" her choice?

I've always been rather curious as to this.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
B2707SST
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RE: For Lotr Supersleuths: Arwen's Mortality?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:14 pm

The movie script made up the "life of the Eldar" line. In the books, Arwen (like her ancestors) was half-Elvish, and so had to choose which race to be counted among. For some reason, she was allowed to postpone her decision until her father Elrond departed Middle-Earth. At that point she had to choose, and obviously chose mortality for Aragorn's sake.

There's some comment in one of the auxiliary books (maybe Unfinished Tales) about the bitterness of Arwen and Elrond's parting at the end of the 3rd Age. I think a more specific explanation of the issue is buried somewhere in Tolkien's Letters or the Histories of Middle-Earth.

Anyway, good on PJ and company, 11 Oscars is quite a feat. And now to bed...

--B2707SST
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jwenting
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RE: For Lotr Supersleuths: Arwen's Mortality?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:12 pm

Halfelven are counted as elven unless and until they specifically choose otherwise.
That's the reason Arwen didn't have to choose mortality until she married Aragorn.
Had she been forced to choose at say age 20 she'd have died a long time earlier, as she was quite a bit older than that by the end of the 3rd age.

At the end of the 3rd age all of Elven descent left the Middle Earth. To remain behind with Aragorn she at that point had to choose mortality.
In reality she chose the moment she took the hand of Aragorn in wedlock (and chose to become mortal at that moment years earlier in Rivendel).

There was no fight between Elrond and Arwen. There was great sadness of course on the part of the Elves about the love of their fairest and lastborn, and friendly pursuasion may have been used but the violent disagreements shown in the movie never appear in the books. Elrond is sad to see her daughter stay when he has to leave, but he is gladdened to see her happy with her decision.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: For Lotr Supersleuths: Arwen's Mortality?

Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:17 am

What I'm asking is... how is the choice actually made?

I dont think Tolkien actually ever went into it... was there a ritual they went through to give up immortality? How did "it" know when the choice was made?

I realize it has nothing to do with Aman, as there's nothing about the land which incourages immortality or not.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!

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