kbuf737
Posts: 765
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:22 pm

Urban Sprawl

Thu Mar 04, 2004 3:37 pm

I was looking at maps of urban areas across the US and I was wondering. Just how much farther is it going to go. My examples are Atlanta, Denver, Dallas and LA. Its just sick how every time I fly into Atlanta just houses upon houses are going up spreading further and further out making longer commute times which mean less time with the family. In Denver, before we know it its going to be one giant metropolis from Fort Collins to Colorado Springs, thats nearly half the state. Just a big wall of Haze and Urbanization between the plains and the rockies. Dallas, how far is Dallas/Fort Worth from East to west. somebody said from one part to the other its nearly 70 miles. That is rediculous. This all needs to end. And LA, forget about it. San Diego is practically a suburb of LA by know. Heck. Look at Vegas, how could I forget that in the last 10 years Vegas has doubled its urban area. Sick people sick. Its time we woke up here and started limiting some things. We cant keep doing this forever you know.
The tower? Rapunzel!!!!!!
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Thu Mar 04, 2004 3:39 pm

It wouldn't be as bad if we had some decent public transportation, and subway. Underground trains are a sign of civilization. Moscow has it. New York has it. San Francisco has it. Why not Denver?

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Thu Mar 04, 2004 3:53 pm

It wouldn't be as bad if we had some decent public transportation, and subway. Underground trains are a sign of civilization. Moscow has it. New York has it. San Francisco has it. Why not Denver?

Call it poor urban planning. Did you know that Douglas County, south of Denver and part of the "Metro Six" was named by Newsweek as the single worst example of Suburban waste in the history of mankind?

DLKAPA


[Edited 2004-03-04 07:53:41]
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
SophieMaltese
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:08 pm

RE: Urban Sprawl

Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:00 pm

I hate suburbs. Ick.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:07 pm

More like no planning at all.
Predatory capitalist has an appetite to expand, expand and expand. Fickle minded soccer moms like those brand new homes with vaulted ceilings because they look bigger.
Public transit?
That would mean a half-cent sales tax hike and that's communist.
Besides, gasoline will last forever and that 0% financing for that Lexus 4X4 SUV can't be beat.
Images on TV tells us that this is the norm and what your life is supposed to look like.
 Yeah sure  Yeah sure  Yeah sure  Yeah sure


This is the vicious cycle.  Pissed
Bring back the Concorde
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:12 pm

Suburbs
In the school halls
In the shopping malls
Conform or be castout
Suburbs
In the basement bars
In the backs of cars
Be cool or be cast out

Any escape might to help to sooth the unattractive but the suburbs have no charms to sooth the restless dreams of youth.


-Neil Peart (1982)
Bring back the Concorde
 
DC10GUY
Posts: 2590
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:21 pm

There's a darkness on the edge of town, there's a darkness on the edge of town. Superfly. I do wish more cites where like SFO. I think that most city's where at one time. SFO has a soul. Most other city's I've been to in the US don't. I don't know why. The suburbs aren't that bad.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
CMK10
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:56 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:03 pm

Look at the Phoenix Metropolitan Area (the fastest growing metro. area in the country). New suburbs seem to spring up out of the desert every day and if you go way out into the country out beyond Apache Junction, there are about six times more people then there were thirty years ago. If the trend continues it will become like suburban New York and a cardboard box on a street corner will fetch $500,000.
"Traveling light is the only way to fly" - Eric Clapton
 
Guest

RE: Urban Sprawl

Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:20 pm

What are the trains like over in the us. i heard they're pretty bad. there not great here, france is where you wanna go. i hate to say this on an aviation websiate but i think high speed train links (180mph) should be built throughout europe and us and flights less than 2 hours stopped and replaced by trains. short flights and small planes annoy me anyway. i love longer ones and widebodies though.
 
DC10GUY
Posts: 2590
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:21 pm

That's true CMK10, Its all about supply and demand. Now that I live in the valley of the sun I don't want anyone else to more here. But I know they will Just like I did.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:44 pm

Where do you suggest we expand then? The middle of Yellowstone Park?
 
Pendrilsaint
Posts: 674
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 6:46 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:17 pm

"Subways are a sign of civilization" Well thats silly...New York's subway system is a freaking, mother loving joke! The commute from the upper west side to midtown or downtown on a rushhour can take just as long as any commuter drive in Atlanta, or Denver. Yes, soccer moms do like houses with vaulted ceilings because they look bigger. Yes, people want a larger backyard so they don't have to feel like someone is always breathing down their neck. When will people understand that some folks like living in cities that are suburban like Phoenix, Atlanta, Denver, or in some cases Boston? If subways are a sign of civilization then I'll take the barbarity of of one of the above cities (save Boston with its crappy subway system) anyday.
 
Guest

RE: Urban Sprawl

Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:33 pm

"Any escape might to help to sooth the unattractive but the suburbs have no charms to sooth the restless dreams of youth."

Uh Superfly, the word is subdivisions, not suburbs, and you are taking that song completely out of context.

Personally, the so-called "sprawl" doesn't bother me...

"Yes, soccer moms [and NormalSpeed] do like houses with vaulted ceilings because they look (are) bigger. Yes, people want a larger backyard so they don't have to feel like someone is always breathing down their neck."

Amen.

'Speed

P.S. I think soccer moms are hot.

[Edited 2004-03-04 14:42:26]
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 11765
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Urban Sprawl

Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:57 pm

"Subdivisions
In the high school halls
In the shopping malls
Conform or be cast out

Subdivisions
In the basement bars
In the backs of cars
Be cool or be cast out

Any escape might to help to smooth the unattractive truth,
but the suburbs have no charms to soothe the restless dreams of youth."

I love Rush, but I agree, these lyrics were somewhat taken out of context. I think they have some relevance, but not quite as much as perhaps is intimated above.
~Vik
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
North County
Posts: 681
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 11:52 pm

RE: Urban Sprawl

Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:24 am

A couple of sub-issues concerning urban sprawl in the Western US.

1. Illegal immigration.

2. Housing near the employment centers, I.E. San Francisco (and many cities) is more expensive then it needs to be for example.


On number #1: if you stop it you will have less people to house and in turn less of a need to build out farther from the urban center.


On number #2: The reason that housing is more expensive then it needs to be is that you have rent control and a restriction on upward construction. I have read Superfly write about the pending proposals for high rise condos. If you don't build up then you are going to have to build out. Take your choice. You need to allow redevelopment in the Urban areas to include upward building - or the building will continue to spread outward.



Problem is that the groups that are the most upset about urban sprawl are not trying to end illegal immigration and are not allowing present property owners to building up in the Urban centers.

I just want to add that I am in the mortgage business in the Southern California area. My college work was based on the political, social and economic history of the Southwest and Western regions.

Quiz time!

#1, There is one factor that has allowed the vast amount of Urban development in the Southwestern part of the US over the past 50+ years. What is it?


#2, The is one factor, above all the rest, that will limit the population growth of the Southwest region in the future. What is it?





 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:26 am

#1, There is one factor that has allowed the vast amount of Urban development in the Southwestern part of the US over the past 50+ years. What is it?

Air conditioning


#2, The is one factor, above all the rest, that will limit the population growth of the Southwest region in the future. What is it?

Water
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
North County
Posts: 681
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 11:52 pm

RE: Urban Sprawl

Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:28 am



Very good - you are correct!
 
sr117
Posts: 681
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2000 2:00 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:51 am

How about higher density housing?

High density doesn't always = ghetto, and european cities are proof of that. Sooner ir later it will become part of a solution.
 
flight152
Posts: 3211
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:25 am

High density doesn't always = ghetto

Yes it does.
 
KYIPpilot
Posts: 1357
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:14 pm

RE: Urban Sprawl

Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:26 am

Care to elaborate, Flight152?
"It starts when you're always afraid; You step out of line, the man come and take you away" -Buffalo Springfield
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:43 am

Urban sprawl? Get used to it.

Most estimates have the world population reaching one billion between 1800 and 1850. Most have it reaching two billion between 1900 and 1950. It is 6.3 Billion today.

Plot that on a graph. Start with the human population being more or less flat at about half a billion as long ago as you'd like and graph it. No matter how you plot this the population curve is nearly vertical today. It has more than doubled during my adult life. It will double again two or three more times before I die. That is something like a sixteen-fold increase.

More people are alive on earth today than have died since the beginning of the human species. Put another way, nearly 25% of all the human beings ever born on this planet are still alive today, they are under 21 years of age and live in the third world many in stupefying poverty. The reason is simple math - two beget four, four beget eight, eight to sixteen and so on. We used to have diseases and predators and wars that kept the population in check but those things are hardly a factor anymore except in the world's poorest regions. Our birthrate per couple has not declined and more of our children are living to breeding age.

When things are scarce they have value. When they are common they do not. The blunt truth about us, even the bleeding-heart liberals is that we do not value human life very much.

Now ask yourself how fast food production is increasing.

Ask yourself is it fair that Canada hoards so much of the world's fresh water.
(Just kidding Canada  Smile)

Enjoy your Urban sprawl. The urban and suburban area of Sacramento California expand outward into some of the world's best farmland. They scrape away topsoil and pave and pour concrete where food wanted to grow. That is California's solution. Why, because it is cheaper to build on flat ground. It is an illusion, it is more expensive in the long term (centuries) but cheaper for the guys who want the profits from development right now.

Overpopulation is virtually the only problem the entire world has. And nearly all of our two hundred plus nations see it as their solution, not their problem.

I am going to do my part and die soon. What are you doing about it?
Well, I feel better now.

In the time it took me to write this the population increased by nearly five thousand. (I just reloaded the population clock)

Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
B2707SST
Posts: 1258
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:39 pm

True, population is still growing, but the rate of growth is slowing (now is that the second or third derivative...). Excluding immigration, most developed countries have stable or slightly declining populations. I remember hearing that Russia and Spain are contracting at a somewhat alarming rate. Pat Buchanan likes to get worked up over this.

Very underdeveloped countries have low growth rates, because there's simply not enough food to support a larger population. Wealthy industrialized countries have low birth rates, also leading to stable populations. Developing countries are the exception, because rising incomes lead to larger families but birth rates have not yet declined. It's hoped that as third-world incomes rise, the world population will stabilize or even shrink a little.

Like North County said, urban growth limits must drive up housing prices - that's what happens when supply is fixed and demand rises. Rent control destroys the incentives for new investment in urban housing and creates ghettos. Public housing costs the city huge amounts of money and often deteriorates into slums.

There's no way out once growth is restricted: the laws of supply and demand are about as immutable as gravity. Swedish economist and socialist Assar Lindbeck made the famous statement, "In many cases rent control appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city—except for bombing."

The only alternative is allowing new development. For an industrialized country, the US has a relatively low population density (see http://web.hhs.se/personal/suzuki/o-English/po01.html for rankings), so that's where we've tended to go in the past.

Pick your poison.

--B2707SST
Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:00 pm

NormalSpeed:
Uh Superfly, the word is subdivisions, not suburbs, and you are taking that song completely out of context

I should be ashamed of myself on the RUSH lyric! Embarrassment Embarrassment Embarrassment
I have been a diehard fan for 17 years and I had to sing the “subdivisions” part of Subdivisions in a RUSH cover band I play with from time to time.
The song was not taken out of context. I have an interview of Geddy Lee on MTV with Martha Quinn on Betamax (1982), where he discusses this very issue.
(Gosh I am dating myself)

North County:
The reason that housing is more expensive then it needs to be is that you have rent control and a restriction on upward construction. I have read Superfly write about the pending proposals for high rise condos.

Gavin Newsom’s proposal to Manhattanize San Francisco was soundly defeated 70%.
70% of the voters can’t be wrong. Liberals and Conservative within San Francisco were opposing to this and it lost in every district with San Francisco.
These proposals are on the ballot every election cycle and they are always defeated by 67-72%, which is the breakdown of renters to homeowners within San Francisco.

Without rent control, this entire town would be a rich man’s fairyland.
Whare are those who work at the coffee shops and cleaners going to live?
Rent control works in places like San Francisco and New York. There is no other place to expand. Getting rid of rent control will not make prices drop. It would permit the highest bidder to live here. Gavin Newsom has failed in every attempt to weaken rent control.
In most places, rent control is a bad idea because there would be no incentive to build new housing. Here in San Francisco and New York, the isn’t any place to develop.
Rent control here in San Francisco only applies to buildings build before 1979.
Ironically dozens of older apartments went up in flames on those rare nights when there were no winds blowing here during the dotcom boom.
Of course the fire department never wanted to investigate any of these cases.



Flight152:
You are way off the mark.
Have you seen New York’s Upper East Side of Manhattan? Chelsea?
Have you seen Chicago’s Lincoln Park?
Have you seen San Francisco’s Marina, Laurel Heights, Pacific Heights, Seacliff and Twin Peaks districts?
These are all high density, high value, low crime areas. You can’t find a place in any of these areas for less than 7 figures.



Pendrilsaint:
The commute from the upper west side to midtown or downtown on a rushhour can take just as long as any commuter drive in Atlanta, or Denver. Yes, soccer moms do like houses with vaulted ceilings because they look bigger. Yes, people want a larger backyard so they don't have to feel like someone is always breathing down their neck

Don’t put words in my mouth. In fact, have you seen these tiny lots these suburban track home are being build on? My backyard here in congested San Francisco is larger than these track homes growing overnight out in the burbs.
Subways are a sign of civilization.
It’s not just about the time it takes to get from point A to B. There are many other factors. A train carrying 150 people 30 miles pollutes less than 150 individual cars going the same distance.
Also, do you have any idea how much it cost to park downtown in Manhattan?


B2707SST:
Rent control destroys the incentives for new investment in urban housing and creates ghettos. Public housing costs the city huge amounts of money and often deteriorates into slums.

Yet San Francisco and New York's real estate is more expensive than any other major city in the US.
I guess rent control hasn't deteriorated our cities in to complete slums.  Insane


It’s no secret to anyone here that I love automobiles. I am still a huge proponent of subways for everyday use.
I only put 4,000 miles on my car last year. Cars last longer that way, I pollute less, got a chance to read and got a chance to hook up with some hot babes.  Smile


Now don’t get me wrong folks.
I am all in favor of building new homes and expansion. There just needs to be more planning involved. People here had a fit when I mentioned the “vaulted ceilings and fickle minded soccer moms but totally missed the part about paying for public transportation.
Portland, Oregon has an excellent planning system in place. Instead of public transit following development, development followed public transportation. They laid tracks in areas no one lived and developers build along those routes.
When developers decide to build large-scale communities, there needs to be a public transit system in place to accommodate these new residents.



KROC:
Where do you suggest we expand then? The middle of Yellowstone Park?

No.
Rochester, New York.  Smile




Bring back the Concorde
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:06 pm

North County:
The reason that housing is more expensive then it needs to be is that you have rent control and a restriction on upward construction. I have read Superfly write about the pending proposals for high rise condos.

Gavin Newsom’s proposal to Manhattanize San Francisco was soundly defeated 70%.
70% of the voters can’t be wrong. Liberals and Conservative within San Francisco were opposing to this and it lost in every district with San Francisco.
These proposals are on the ballot every election cycle and they are always defeated by 67-72%, which is the breakdown of renters to homeowners within San Francisco.

Without rent control, this entire town would be a rich man’s fairyland.
Whare are those who work at the coffee shops and cleaners going to live?
Rent control works in places like San Francisco and New York. There is no other place to expand. Getting rid of rent control will not make prices drop. It would permit the highest bidder to live here. Gavin Newsom has failed in every attempt to weaken rent control.
In most places, rent control is a bad idea because there would be no incentive to build new housing. Here in San Francisco and New York, the isn’t any place to develop.
Rent control here in San Francisco only applies to buildings build before 1979.
Ironically dozens of older apartments went up in flames on those rare nights when there were no winds blowing here during the dotcom boom.
Of course the fire department never wanted to investigate any of these cases.


And this is why you ended up with huge area's of urban slums in the 1970's. The landlords couldn't get any money they put into their properties back, so it was easier to torch them for the insurance money rather then investing in the property.

Trust me, Rent control is a price control and price controls are bad.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:31 pm

L-188:
But San Francisco is not a slum.
San Fransisco is a shining example of how rent can work.
Ironiclly the worst part of town (Bayshore/Hunters Point) has the highest percent of owner occupied homes.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Guest

RE: Urban Sprawl

Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:14 pm

"...I had to sing the “subdivisions” part of Subdivisions in a RUSH cover band I play with from time to time."

Superfly,

Dude! You play with a Rush cover band? That's sweet, man.

'Speed
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:17 pm

Dude! You play with a Rush cover band? That's sweet, man.

Thanks man!

I still can't play La Villa Strangiato all the way through.  Sad

Alex Lifeson's shoes aren't the easyest to fill.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:25 pm

Suburban sprawl doesn't have to be boring.
My favorite developer Joseph Eichler has made some of the most magnificent suburban homes ever.









And with a smart transit planning in place, the subdivisions in the suburbs can be very appealing.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:31 pm

Wealthy industrialized countries have low birth rates, also leading to stable populations. Developing countries are the exception, because rising incomes lead to larger families but birth rates have not yet declined.

Actually, birth rates in most developing countries have declined, in some cases by significant amounts. Some of them, Tunisia and Thailand to name a couple, have gone below the 2.1-children-per-women point that is considered replacement level, and many others are not much higher. Kenya has had one of the biggest drops of all, from 8+ children per woman two decades ago to about three today. Total numbers of births in most developing countries are still high, simply because there are large numbers of women of childbearing age, born when birth rates were high, but these numbers will drop over time.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Delta767300ER
Posts: 2436
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:12 pm

RE: Urban Sprawl

Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:08 pm

Urban Sprawl is a fact that we are going to have to get used to. Cities like Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Los Angeles, Phoenix, and Vegas are booming in growth and their is no place but to go out. Personally, it doesent bother me. Make our cities bigger!

-Delta767300ER
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:14 pm

Make cities bigger... but where's the public transportation? Just today I spent 20 minutes driving Vafi88 to school, and the distance was just under 5 miles. It's only going to get worse.

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:17 pm

An-225:
Make sure he gave you gas money! Big grin

Just kidding.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
vafi88
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 10:32 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:26 pm

Hey Hey Hey!!!

This underaged school attending person is out of a job!
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
Delta767300ER
Posts: 2436
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:12 pm

An-225

Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:27 pm

I forgot to add my part of public transportation in their. Hopefully Subways, rails/high speed bullett trains and busses will be put in to combat heavy freeway traffic volumes.

-Delta767300ER
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:34 pm

Vafi88:
Ok then get him some grass!  Laugh out loud

My friend had a bumper sticker that read; "Ass, Gas or Grass. No one rides for free".



Delta767300ER:
Hopefully Subways, rails/high speed bullett trains and busses will be put in to combat heavy freeway traffic volumes.

Amen to that!  Smokin cool
Bring back the Concorde
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:41 pm

Another big problem is that people can't drive. If you have a Corvette with some power in it, you shouldn't be doing 55 on Pena on your way to the airport, especially since posted limit is 65. You shouldn't talk on the cellphone either, nor should you park your stupid car in the middle of the street. I still miss Moscow subway...  Sad

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
VectorVictor
Posts: 384
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:31 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:46 pm

Well, Superfly you I probably don't agree on much, but Joseph Eichler houses are absolute gems.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:57 pm

VectorVictor:
I just LOVE Eichler homes!
Too bad there are like only 8 in city proper of San Francisco.  Sad
There are hundreds out in Walnut Creek and Palo Alto. Our fellow A.net member ElPremier lives in one.
Does Houston have a lot or similar? My friend Scculter (also A.net member) up in Dallas admires this style of architecture as well.

Did you know that initially Joseph Eichler homes were meant to be low-priced homes? They were not that expensive to build. However today's energy cost makes these very expensive to keep warm in the winter. Even our mild winters in California, you can expect to have a high heating bill.
If these homes used double pain windows it would make a world of difference in terms of efficiency.
Bring back the Concorde
 
flight152
Posts: 3211
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:05 pm

However today's energy cost makes these very expensive to keep warm in the winter.

That being a good reason why many people build new houses in colder or warmer climates. Older houses just are not as efficient to heat or cool as new houses are..which makes them costly to maintain.
 
Delta767300ER
Posts: 2436
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:12 pm

Superfly/An-225

Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:19 pm

Superfly, I like the designs of those houses you posted!

An-225, I agree. Nobody driving a Corvette should be driving below the speed limit!

-Delta767300ER
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: Urban Sprawl

Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:43 pm

"Another big problem is that people can't drive. If you have a Corvette with some power in it, you shouldn't be doing 55 on Pena on your way to the airport, especially since posted limit is 65. You shouldn't talk on the cellphone either, nor should you park your stupid car in the middle of the street. I still miss Moscow subway... "

Jeez...even on a.net you like to complain about every other soul on the road...no cursing here though...Im disppointed in you Alex...whats an Alex rant without the expletives? Its...just not the same...your ( Big grin) disappointing me man...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

RE: Urban Sprawl

Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:49 pm

Oh yeah, Greg here has a point. Fucking dolts clogging up freeways with those god damn ok, I'll stop now  Big grin.

Still miss the Moscow Subway...

Alex.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: Urban Sprawl

Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:10 am

Suburbs wouldn't be so bad if proper commuter rail lines were built. Expanding a freeway only does so much good. An express train could make it from Downtown to the suburbs in maybe 20 minutes. I'll use Paris as an example. At major subway stations, you can connect to the RER (express train). These trains travel 50-60mph, and connect places such as Versailles and other suburbs to the city. Take the RER to a major subway station, and then you can get to almost any spot in the city.

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