zak
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

David Kay:"come Clean With The American People"

Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:09 pm

"David Kay, the man who led the CIA's postwar effort to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, has called on the Bush administration to "come clean with the American people" and admit it was wrong about the existence of the weapons."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1160842,00.html

it doesnt get boring does it!
i wonder how the bush pr machine will spin this one or if it will get mentioned at all in u.s. media.
10=2
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: David Kay:"come Clean With The American People"

Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:07 pm

Don't you know, Bush is NEVER wrong? He'll tell you that himself.

And besides, it REALLY wasn't about the WMD's.

(dripping with sarcasm)
 
Schoenorama
Posts: 2305
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 5:15 am

RE: David Kay:"come Clean With The American People"

Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:33 pm

Some excerpts from Bush speeches on Iraq, for those who've forgotten what this war was all about.

"My fellow citizens, at this hour, American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger."

That's a totall of 3 reasons he gives for invading Iraq: disarm, free its people and removal of a grave danger. Two out of three reasons were bogus, reason enough for Bush to come clean about Iraq, I'd say.

"We have no ambition in Iraq, except to remove a threat and restore control of that country to its own people."

"Our nation enters this conflict reluctantly -- yet, our purpose is sure. The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder. We will meet that threat now, with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of fire fighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities." (President Bush Addresses the Nation, March 19, 2003)


"And we concluded that tomorrow is a moment of truth for the world. Many nations have voiced a commitment to peace and security. And now they must demonstrate that commitment to peace and security in the only effective way, by supporting the immediate and unconditional disarmament of Saddam Hussein." (Azores Meeting, March 16 2003)

Not a word about freeing the Iraqi people, strange.

"This is a person who we have proven to the world is deceiving everybody -- I mean, he's a master at it. He's a master of deception. As I said yesterday, he'll probably try it again. He'll probably try to lie his way out of compliance or deceive or put out some false statement. You know, if he wanted to disarm, he would have disarmed. We know what a disarmed regime looks like." (February 7, 2003)

Note how this particular paragraph can also be easily applied to Bush himself.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy











Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
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RE: David Kay:"come Clean With The American People"

Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:47 pm

Of course Bush knew what a "disarmed regime" looks like - it looked like prewar Iraq. And he knew it.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: David Kay:"come Clean With The American People"

Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:09 am

Do you people ever get tired of talking about this shit?
Go big or go home
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: David Kay:"come Clean With The American People"

Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:17 am

Aa61hvy, you're only saying that because you're feeling the love with Dubya.

Not all of us think the guy is a saint. So we'lll continue to discuss it.
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: David Kay:"come Clean With The American People"

Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:19 am

President George W Bush never said the War on Iraq was about WMD's, it's only an invention of the liberal media, CNN and BBC. Those communists of the old europe, + the extreme-left CNN have nothing better to do anyway than cracking our Great President Bush down.

Kay never did his job in Iraq like President Bush and his team wanted to, it was a good sign when he was sacked from his job a few weeks ago. He maybe claimed to be a Republican, but he seems to be a stupid lefty democrat.

Of course the liberal pr will use the dead soldiers in Iraq, and the wrong conclusions of Kay in the election campaign of Kerry, but let those idiots just do! President George Bush is ready for his second term anyway, and whether Kay asks to come clean with the Americans or not, we, conservatives, don't care anyway, because everything anti-President Bush is made by communists, and is wrong, because our President Bush only wants welfare for everyone, and because President Bush doesn't make mistakes. That's why we blindly trust and believe him.

Dripping with sarcasm too, Alpha 1...
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
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RE: David Kay:"come Clean With The American People"

Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:22 am

I'm feeling no love for Dubya these days, and I'm sick of this shit too. How many times can you have the same old argument? Great, there is a contingent that on here that would floss their teeth with Bush's pubic hair if they could, and there is a contingent that would not piss on the guy if he was on fire burning to death. The same old argument has been going on for YEARS, and guess what fellas, nothing has changed because you all think you know more about something than those that actually do play a role.
 
zak
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: David Kay:"come Clean With The American People"

Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:32 am

" and guess what fellas, nothing has changed"

i do think it is quite a change when the lead u..s weapons inspector(after all he went there on assignment by bushs admin) says that they need to come clean about it.
especially given the big case they made before the war and still on occasion do make and/or defend about iraqs capability to deploy and use wmd's.
considering the u.n. phobia and i think it is quite a change to hear this straight from the horses mouth.

what is also puzzling me is that extreme right wing media(newsmax, who call germany saddams teutonic allies on the same page) link to the guarian article directly: http://www.newsmax.com/

"Germany Lets 9/11 Terrorist Have a Retrial
Saddam Hussein's Teutonic allies give Mounir el Motassadeq a break.
Haiti Rebels Vow to Lay Down Arms
Iraqis Blame U.S. for Muslim-on-Muslim Slaughter
Admit WMD Mistake, Kay Tells Bush"

10=2
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: David Kay:"come Clean With The American People"

Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:40 am

You can discuss/bitch/whatever you want to call it, but it surely will not change what is going on.
Go big or go home
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 13503
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: David Kay:"come Clean With The American People"

Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:48 am

it doesnt get boring does it

For people like you who have nothing better to do, I'd imagine it doesn't, no.

For those of us with lives? Yeah - it's friggin' boring, but hey thanks for the reset.

I needed that about as much as having songs from "The Sound of Music" stuck in my head.  Insane
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: David Kay:"come Clean With The American People"

Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:02 am

President George W Bush never said the War on Iraq was about WMD's, it's only an invention of the liberal media, CNN and BBC. Those communists of the old europe, + the extreme-left CNN have nothing better to do anyway than cracking our Great President Bush down.

Kay never did his job in Iraq like President Bush and his team wanted to, it was a good sign when he was sacked from his job a few weeks ago. He maybe claimed to be a Republican, but he seems to be a stupid lefty democrat.

Of course the liberal pr will use the dead soldiers in Iraq, and the wrong conclusions of Kay in the election campaign of Kerry, but let those idiots just do! President George Bush is ready for his second term anyway, and whether Kay asks to come clean with the Americans or not, we, conservatives, don't care anyway, because everything anti-President Bush is made by communists, and is wrong, because our President Bush only wants welfare for everyone, and because President Bush doesn't make mistakes. That's why we blindly trust and believe him.

Dripping with sarcasm too, Alpha

Well,Bush placed far less emphasis on WMDs being the case for war than Blair due to the US not signing up to the ICC.

And for all the talk of there not being any WMDs found as yet,France,Germany and Russia also thought Iraq had WMDs-the difference was their stance on how to deal with them not whether they existed.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: David Kay:"come Clean With The American People"

Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:04 am

You can discuss/bitch/whatever you want to call it, but it surely will not change what is going on.

No, but it's interesting. And it's better than talking about the best colour scheme on a 767.

For those of us with lives? Yeah - it's friggin' boring, but hey thanks for the reset.

Surely politics affects your "life" quite a bit?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: David Kay:"come Clean With The American People"

Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:32 am

" and guess what fellas, nothing has changed"

For those impared...by me saying the above statement, meant that nobody on these boards, with all the pissing contests, with all the fights, arguments, insults, crying, whinning, and acting like everyone is smarter than everyone else has never once changed to what goes on in the world, or U.S. Politics. Even 777236(notso)ER and his "God like" attitude hasn't managed to parlay his British view points into changing American Politics. Discussion is one thing, the same old pissing contest for 3 years running is tired and old. Some people might want to find a few other interests.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
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RE: David Kay:"come Clean With The American People"

Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:39 am

"Old Europe" / "The Axis of Weasels" didn´t firmly believe that Saddam had WMDs before the invasion, they knew he had them back in the 1990s and wanted to have the UN inspectors check where those went and if there were any new ones. It´s a difference.

And no, as long as the same chain of argumentation is being used to keep unilateral control of the development in Iraq and as long as it is used as a campaign tool in the run for the US presidency, this topic must be discussed. It´s not just an option.
 
Schoenorama
Posts: 2305
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 5:15 am

RE: David Kay:"come Clean With The American People"

Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:58 pm

KROC:

"The same old argument has been going on for YEARS, and guess what fellas, nothing has changed because you all think you know more about something than those that actually do play a role."

This whole discussion used to be dominated by just two groups: those that BEFORE the war believed Iraq was not a direct threat and those who believed Saddam was a direct threat because of these WMD's. Recently, a third group has joined the discussion, both here as in the 'real world'; those that openly admit they were wrong about their pre-war accusations. Unfortunately, this latter group is very small. One can only admire this latter group for they trully believe important lessons can be learned to avoid anything similar from happening in the future.

Simply ignoring the argument because it has been going on for YEARS, will NEVER change anything. As long as Bush doesn't admit he was wrong about the WMD's, he will have a very hard time trying to sell the next pre-emptive strike or whatever major operation for which he will need full public backing.

"Discussion is one thing, the same old pissing contest for 3 years running is tired and old. Some people might want to find a few other interests."

Nobody is forcing you to participate in these boring discussions, KROC. If you'd rather not participate in them, by all means, be my guest. I'm quite sure it would actually improve the quality of these discussions in general, not having a CREW MEMBER breaking forum-rules all the time telling how BORING a discussion is getting.
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
zak
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: David Kay:"come Clean With The American People

Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:10 pm

"Discussion is one thing, the same old pissing contest for 3 years running is tired and old. Some people might want to find a few other interests."

to some people it is important to point out what really happens in stark contrast to the ever repeating propaganda most news agencies report without rechecking their "white house officials say" anonymous source.

what can "we" as in human beings do to help democracy?

- discuss issues that have yet to be resolved
- promote discussion about various aspects of life
- voice our opinions and listen to the opinions of other people

that is what democracy is about, the people discussing politics and making up their mind on it. someone might, surely with some ground to it, argue that a.net nonav is not the right place for it, however when people come together because they share a hobby it can not be wrong to also discuss about other issues and to allow each and every one to expand his horizon about the views of the world that the other people that share his hobby hold.
after all it boils down to the fact that people want their opinions voiced and understood. isnt that what a forum ( http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=forum ) is all about?
10=2

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